What's growing on my Night Blooming Jasmine?

I have a small (1.5 foot) Night Blooming Jasmine that I am trying to grow large enough to plant outdoors. It was received from the nursery about a week ago and planted into a 16" pot of 50% Hyponex Potting Soil and 50% Hyponex Cow Manure Compost (0.5 0.5 0.5). About 2 days a go, I noticed this strange new growth of off-white spots on the foliage. I am wondering if it is a fungus or something. Anyone know what it is, and can I do anything special to make this plant take off and grow? I want to transplant it outside to my yard, but it has to get much larger to handle south FL sun first. (Please see attached photo for a look at the spots).

Thanks in advance!

Mac
Longboat Key, FL
Zone 9

it almost looks as if it got sprayed with something that damaged it like a chemical.

Hi babeegirl!

Thanks for the weigh in. I appreciate it.

While I do not believe an accidental chemical spray is the problem, I WAS spritzing the foliage with a plastic spray bottle that I used to control flare ups on my grill, and it only had water in it before. The water WAS city water when it was last used, but I rinsed it out well in my well water sink, prior to filling it with fresh bottled spring water. I had no distilled water at the time, so I opted for Arrowhead spring water as opposed to using my well water. This thing has been ultra-sensitive to changes to my environment, so I am now only using distilled water and only when needed.

I will watch for further leaf growth and if none of these patches are seen, then perhaps you may be onto something!

Thanks again!

How's the weather coming along in Wichita? I worked at Kansas Heart for a short while a few years back. Can't say I miss KS winter weather! Should be getting nice about now.

not yet:) it's been rainy, chilly and gloomy. We have a few nice days here and there but not with any continuity. Just as soon as it turns warm the tornadoes will probably show up :) You know, it might be interesting to take a drop of the water from the bottle and place it on one of the leaves in a controlled experiment to see if you get the same type of spot. If it doesn't mark the leaf then you could eliminate the water as a culprit. Also, when I lived in Texas, I used to buy a product called Super Thrive and it really helped plants make the transition to living in the Texas sun.

This message was edited Apr 13, 2009 3:12 PM

Have you tried cleaning the leaves? You could take a soft, damp cloth and gently wipe them off. It looks like the leaves had something on them, perhaps some sort of chemical to control insects at the nursery. When you spritzed them with water it could have caused the dried residue to collect in spots where the water beaded up. I've had that happen with plants before.

Babeegirl: Thanks for the product referral. I will look into it immediately.

Naturelover1950: Yes, I tried to clean off the spots, but the leaf is dry and brittle. The area ripped off with rubbing, so it's nothing I can clean off. I removed the leaf I tried to clean altogether and looked at it very closely with a magnifying glass. It's a dry, shriveled area of the leaf. In addition, upon further inspection today, I notice about half the tips of the leaves getting dry and brittle also despite the pot having adequately wet soil and pea gravel at the bottom for drainage. I have attached a macro shot of the tip of one of the leaves. Please take a look.

I gave the plant filtered sunlight by a window today for the first time since rescuing it from its last near death experience from direct south FL sun. About 3 hours of morning sunlight and 3 hours of afternoon sunlight, all through a window.

I am at a loss here.... thanks for the suggestions. I will start looking for Super Thrive to see if it can rescue this plant before it dies.

Does the soil mix I used sound okay? 50/50? I am very new at gardening and landscaping with plants, so I am flailing along here with what I learn on the internet which it seems everyone has a different way of growing things and tricks. I WILL find my green thumb if it requires me obtaining a Horticulture degree.

The most bizarre thing is, is that this thing seems to grow best under a 150 watt equivalent Compact Flourescent Lamp (CFL) (AKA Ecobulb) that you would use to transition from incandescent to CFL table lamp bulbs. (It's the new fluorescent bulbs that look like a spiral neon light tube in white that are better for the environment). Problem is, I HAVE to transition this plant to outdoor life and I don't want to make it dependent upon this type of light to grow. Is this possible?

So bizarre... thanks to both of you regardless for your suggestions!

Hang in there Babeegirl... spring IS coming. :)

Mac

sorta looks like spider mites also.

I agree, I think I can see the stippled pattern that is characteristic of spider mites also. It's possible that the infestation was already taken care of and that's just the residual damage, but I'd probably wash off the undersides of the leaves and spray them with neem or something else that kills mites just to be safe--they can spread like crazy to other plants so you don't want to take chances. Some of the whitish stuff on the top surfaces of the leaves could be hard water or something like that--sometimes those minerals don't rub off easily but it won't hurt the plant. I don't see anything that looks fungal.

Thanks everyone! I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but what's the best way to wash the underside of the leaves? This thing is so fragile at the moment, I am afraid to wipe the leaves too hard with a cloth, or spray it with a garden sprayer, except for on the mist setting, which I am not sure is enough force to wash them off. Regarding Neem, I don't know much about this product either. Should I buy an Organic Neem Oil such as Omri? Is there a place I can go buy Neem Oil locally such as Home Depot or Lowe's or do I have to order it online? I don't have a lot of plants yet, so I don't need a lot of product. (I understand you dilute the Neem Oil in water?

I told you all I was a rookie! Haha!

Please advise. I hope it's not Spider Mites. But if it is, I appreciate the heads up!

We are currently receiving our first real rain in months of drought and I have the NBJ outside during the periods when the rain is softly falling.

I am desperately doing all I can to help this thing thrive. Thanks to all respondents for the assistance. It is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Mac
"Clueless in Longboat"

Longboat Key, FL
Zone 9-10

actually you can go to walmart and get insecticidial soap in a spray bottle

spray the underside and everything from top to bottom they will kill spider mites. or with a cotton ball since they are fragile.

Is it possible that your plant needs iron? Same thing happened to me and I just bought my plant on Saturday and had to transplant it because it was root-bound.
That is what I read but don't know if I'm right since I am rather new too and looked it up to find out what the problem was.

Any thoughts or am I way off base. I was going to get some bone meal tomorrow.

Elaine and Otis

Iron deficiency usually manifests itself as the whole leaf being yellowish except right around the veins is still bright green, so that's definitely not what's going on here.

Spraying the undersides of the leaves is fine if you aren't able to wash them off easily. I usually start with the washing because that helps get rid of some of the mites and many times I'm able to control them just with that and don't even need to use chemicals. But it's not a necessary step if it's not easy for you to do. How I usually do it is tip the pot on its side so that the undersides of the leaves are exposed, then take the hose and spray it (all my spider mite issues have been on container plants outdoors). Indoors if the plant is small enough you could do it in the sink but that's a little more cumbersome.

Ecrane, take a closer look at the first pic provided. Do you see something "web" like on the under leaf provided.

Rachel

This message was edited Apr 14, 2009 10:54 PM

I don't really see webbing (although I could have missed it). I was suspicious that it was mites because of the stippled pattern on the leaves

Maybe I should have stated a cacoon instead of webbing. My eye's are not that good anymore, but the second time I viewed this post, my eye's were drawn to the underside of the leaf that was provided.

You gave an excellent antidote for most of the "common" cure.....if it is an actual "pest" problem.

Rachel

Thanks again for all of the replies. I think I may be in trouble here though, guys. Today, the NBJ is dropping many smaller recently grown leaves. No wind, no rain today, nothing that would cause leaves to break off. They are just falling off the plant as I am finding them lying on top of the soil. The leaves are small, (about 1/2" to 1" long), and look perfectly green and healthy.

After noticing the leaves lying on the soil, I inspected the bottoms of the leaves with a magnifying glass, (and saw nothing), but I went ahead and washed off the bottom of each leaf remaining on the plant. I am not sure how moist to keep this soil, as I have heard that NBJs do not do well if they dry out, but maybe I have OVER-watered it? The soils is pretty damp from the rain yesterday. Would this cause a shedding of leaves?

I would have NO IDEA if it's low on Iron? I just bought this NBJ from a very reputable dealer and it was BEAUTIFUL when I received it one week ago.

I am going to get the neem oil tomorrow and spray this thing just to be sure, but I am really getting concerned this one is going down the wrong road.

Any further advice?

Thanks again, everyone. You guys are very kind.

Mac

probably not in a high enough humidity rage and took a shock. jasmines like humidity. i have a night blooming jasmine and a yallow jamine thats a fall bloomer . if inside maybe the air conditioner if ran changed it for the plant.

second the roots might be messed up. to me i dont give plants cow manure until late in their growth. jasmines are picky.

and they light drained soil like sandy soil.


talk to the people you bought it from maybe they can tell you more

Mac, I think it's time to take it back to the nursery instead of spending even more money just to keep it alive. You should be enjoying a healthy plant right now and feeling happy about it.

This message was edited Apr 16, 2009 8:06 AM

I would check your watering, the leaves falling off like that and the fact that it sounds like it's been kept pretty damp make me suspect it could be too much water. Maybe not, but worth checking. Yesterday's rain on its own shouldn't have hurt it, but if it had already been a bit on the wet side then it could be a watering problem. I keep mine on the drier side in my garden and it does fine, so they definitely don't need to be wet all the time. I also wouldn't worry too much about the humidity, I grow them out here where we don't have much humidity all summer long and it does just fine.

It doesn't look like it's low on iron, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the symptoms of iron deficiency are the leaves will be mostly yellowish except for bright green around the veins. Plus iron deficiency doesn't make leaves fall off, so there's definitely something else going on. Here are some images of what leaves look like when the plant is deficient in iron so you can see what it would look like http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=chlorosis&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

NOT GOOD..... this is today's presentation.

And this...

Babeegirl:

I can't exactly call the nursery and ask for a replacement. It doesn't seem right.

This plant came in PERFECT condition, and all of the damage has occurred within a week, due to something I have done to it, or some organism or deficiency that it has developed due to my lack of experience with this plant. (Or growing plants in general).

I have to save this plant. I want it in my garden.

I think I am going to follow Imzadis advice and try to replant this thing in a 50/50 mix of potting soil and native FL soil which is 75% sand.

It has to be something with the cow manure compost, and or it's too wet and not able to drain.

Please, if anyone has any other (or different advice) than my plan based on today's pics, PLEASE respond asap. I will check the blog every hour.

Many thanks to EVERYONE.

Mac

well, just consider taking it back to ask for help, not necessarily to get a replacement or ask for a refund. You never know, they may have had other people that bought the same plant have problems too that they can easily identify and help you solve.

True... I got it mail order, so "taking it back" is not an option, but I will call them and see if they have any pointers for me.

What do you think of my idea or trying to re-plant it again? I definitiely have to take SOME action. And take it today.

Such a drag... :(

Warming up any?

Had an idea. Perhaps I could take a cutting from a decent looking area of this plant and try to grow another NBJ in a smaller pot of native soil/potting soil. Does this sound like a good idea?

Also, I am wondering if salt isn't also a problem. The top of the soil has whitish crystalline looking patches on it. Wouldn't know how salt got into the soil though.


Mac

Another shot of the white stuff...

Then again... the mystery white stuff just may be the little white plant food chunks in potting soil that have dissolved....

Plant 9-1-1, hello? I need a rescue!

It does look like a "type" of salt build up. I know my water does due to the type of additive's we have to use due to water softener's so I do not water my plant's with water that come's out of my spout's.

I think your suggestion on taking a cutting and starting a new plant is wise at this point. Did you say you checked for spidermite's. From the last pic's you have posted.....sure does remind me of mite damage.

Rachel

Did check for Spider Mites, and I did not see any signs of them, but I went ahead and sprayed the entire plant with Neem Oil. I dug it up, sprayed it off with my garden hose, sprayed it with Neem and have re-potted it into a fresh pot of straight Hyponex potting soil. No cow manure this time. It looks like it may survive, at this point. I also took a section of the root ball and plant and have re-potted it in a 60/40 mixture of potting soil and indigenous sandy FL soil respectively.

I watered both plants with rain water I caught off the roof the other day during our heavy rain. I have about 10 - 2 liter bottles of it left and that is all I intend to water this plant with.

I have watered the plant with my well water, but I have and use a direct connection off the well upstream from any water softening salts or equipment. So I just don't know how it developed a salt build up, but now, I will not risk it. I will simply use rain water and maybe distilled water should I run out of rain water. Wish me luck!

I am not a TOTAL brown thumb however. The two President Hibiscus trees I planted last week appear to love their new digs! Here's a shot of one of their numerous flowers.

Thanks again, everyone! I am learning, and I thank you.

:)

Mac

Hi Mac and how's life in LongBoat Key today? I am a Florida lovin gal ;-)

You sound like you know exactly what you are doing when it come's to gardening. I am learning as well and this website is the best tool I have found. Beautiful hibiscus your growing there.

Wishing you tremendous luck with your NBJ.

Rachel

Well, below is a post-transplant photo, so it appears as though it was the right decision. I never dreamed that owning a plant that many consider to be a hardy, low-maintenance "weed" would be so time consuming, fragile and fickle!

I guess I will never get this thing acclimated to south FL sun and heat, as every time I have tried to move it outdoors, it has wilted and nearly died.

Anyone from FL successfully growing this plant outdoors that I can get some pointers from?

Mac

I d-mailed you back;-)

Have you tried posting this problem on the Florida gardening forum? If not, I do suggest you do.

Wishing you the best Ken and I will look forward to you posting some pic's on the tropical plant forum as well.

Happy Gardening

Rachel

This message was edited Apr 19, 2009 8:56 PM

If you look at the Plant Files entry for it, there are several people from Florida who are growing it successfully, and some others from other parts of the south that are probably close to as hot and humid as you are http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/2128/ I suspect in your area it'll probably be happier if it gets a little shade during the hottest part of the day. Also anytime you're changing a plant's conditions, it helps to adjust it gradually. If it's used to being in the house and you just put it outside in the sun, that's going to tend to make it unhappy unless you adjust it gradually to being outdoors. When you put it outside, did you leave it in a pot or were you planting it in the ground? If you planted it in the ground it could have just been transplant shock, if you can protect it from the sun for a bit while it gets established it should recover from that (also helps if you plant it during the cooler months of the year...I don't know what time of year you tried it)

Thanks Rachel!

ECrane: Yes, I initially tried acclimating it outdoors immediately upon receipt as I understood it to be such a hearty plant it was "a plant it and forget it" type of plant. I planted it in practically full sun as I also read to do, it looked grand upon receipt, but after planting in my yard, the following day it looked next to death! I took it out of the ground, put it in a pot and put it inside under 75 degree AC, and a 150W CFL Ecobulb which it loves. I then started to give it gradual sun through a window and then slowly a few hours outdoors in morning sun in the pot. It always looks shocked after being outside for even a few hours of cool morning sunshine.

I tried doing all of this in the last couple of weeks. I received the plant about two and a half weeks ago. It's been next to death twice now, and I guess considering it looks like it's going to pull out of this nose dive also, this is why they call it "hardy". It's already 80 plus degrees here some days although humidity remains about 65-68% which is low for us and maybe too low for the NBJ, I don't know.

The leaves still have some brown spots, see pic below, but overall, the plant looks better since spraying with Neem and replanting in potting soil w/o cow manure/compost mix. Also without giving it ANY sunlight. Just the Ecobulb which it does well with placed about 12" underneath the shade.

Thanks for the referrals to get some further help!

Hopefully one day I will have the NBJ I want in my garden and I will send photos worthy of the bandwidth! haha

Thanks again, everyone.

Mac

Your passion run's deep for this plant.

Wishing you all the best with the outcome.

Rachel

I love the smell of NBJ. I used to live in San Clemente, CA and I purposely went for night drives up the 5 & 405 freeways with the top down, just to smell the NBJ planted in the area.

NBJ blooming in the cool summer breeze, the sun splashing into the ocean, and "Boys of Summer" by Don Henley on the radio. Ahhh... sweet flashback!! (haha - sometimes I am such a dork!)

I understand it can be very bold and become overbearing to some, but I will simply keep it cut way back if it becomes too much. I have yet to ever smell too much of NBJ. I fear if it is indoors, I might though, and thus the desire to get it outside asap.

Keeping the faith. Thanks for the well wishes, Rachel!

:)

Mac

65% humidity definitely isn't too low for it, we can grow them out here where we have much lower humidity than that. I think long term for you it'll be better off with some afternoon shade--Plant Files lists it as sun to part shade which tells me that in hot summer climates it definitely ought to be in part shade and won't appreciate hot afternoon sun. I'm not sure why it reacted so badly when you put it outside in morning sun, but you might try first putting it out somewhere that doesn't get any direct sunlight to let it get used to the temperature and humidity change vs indoors, then once it's used to being outside in the shade add in morning sun gradually. Maybe it'll adjust better that way--it's worth trying at least if you really want it outdoors.

G'day everyone!

Well, I tried ecrane's advice and put the jasmine outside this morning into full shade around 10:15 am. It's a nice day today. 80°F, mostly cloudy, wind out of the south at 5 mph and humidity is 66%.

I just went outside at 11:15 pm and found the NBJ wilting yet again. The photo below was taken about 2 minutes after bringing it back into the house to show you the degree of wilt. Before putting it outside it was very upright, and lively looking, and the branches had some spring to them. Now they are hanging as you can see from the photo.

I am at a total loss as to what to do here. I have this thing potted in a 16" pot of a 60/40 mixture of Hyponex potting soil and indigenous FL soil respectively.

So I am not sure what to make of this, really. I did some research on Hyponex and have found it to have a very bad reputation, and even some articles suggesting it contains high levels of Arsenic. One story I read online mentioned a cat dying after drinking the drainage water in a pan from a plant planted in Hyponex. Does sound a wee bit like an urban myth to me, but who knows. Maybe the soil IS the problem?

I have the plant back under its 150W CFL Ecobulb and if and when it perks back up, I may consider trying to once again replant this bloody thing into a different brand of potting soil just to try. Then again, maybe I should just try some straight Florida soil with no additives, no fertilizer, etc.

Any recommendations on a GREAT potting soil? Money is not an issue. Saving this plant is. I bought the Hyponex because being the rookie that I am, I assumed potting soil was potting soil. After some research, I ASSumed incorrectly it appears.

Also, the other NBJ plant I sectioned off of this plant is not going to make it. It amounts to a small trunk. No foliage, and it looks pretty sad. I am too ashamed to photograph it. LOL

Would appreciate any further advice before I give up on this specimen.

Cheers,

Mac

This message was edited Apr 20, 2009 11:54 AM

This message was edited Apr 20, 2009 11:57 AM

I usually use Miracle Gro potting mix...I'm sure there are better things out there, but it's always worked fine for me. If the plant was in complete shade and it was only 80 degrees out I'm not sure why it would have wilted.

I know.... this makes ZERO sence whatsoever. Here is a follow up photo taken just 4 hours back indoors under the Ecobulb. You can see where the whole plant is more erect, (except for the one huge leaf on the left. It has a slight break in it from it's weight - this occurred after the second day of owning it). Overall, it's more springy and full of life.

It's completely crazy, I know... why this thing is so temperamental to the slightest elevation in temp, or change in humidity (whichever is the culprit). It had no sun today because it's been overcast today, so it's not the direct sun.

Thanks for the recommendation for Miracle Grow potting soil. Does it have Vermiculite or Perlite in it? What purpose do they serve?

Thanks ECrane3! You're very kind and very knowledgeable. (I have read many of your posts and comments on DG).

I appreciate the time spent helping this rookie along. Maybe there's another, less fragile plant that smells like NBJ does that you can recommend?