I'll add a column to the spreadsheet for 'notes' for now, maybe after we get enough info it can be condensed down to some main storage methods and rewritten so that seeds can be grouped that way!
I'm thinking at this point to keep it simple. ie "rudbeckia" will usually have the same "weeks before frost" sowing info across most types, and those that are different can be noted, but I won't like all the different forms unless they are different for some reason.
Will also add column for light/dark, and ideal germ. temp.
Cottage Garden Seed Swap & Chat #24
All of this reminds me of the grousing we did last spring about the Plant Files info being woefully insufficient on information about seed germination....yeah, I know there's a Germinating thread, but dangit, why can't we have the info like "indoors 12 weeks before last frost" on the Plant Info page??
Fudge..Fudge..Fudge......... Whoever it ws that aske dme for rose seeds. let emknow, cuz found two packets of hybrizied rose seed that had for ya that on the table under papers. grrrrrrrrrrr at me. Sorry abotu that.
LOL - Star, I had forgotten about the pepper co-op she's running, and I'm in it! If anyone finds my wee little brain wandering around, would you please but it in a bubble envie and send it back? I'll be happy to pay postage.
You are welcome for the info peeps:) Still trying to get the nerve up to brave the cold and snow for the seeds....
She so busy with that just told her abotu an hour ago her piggy box arrived : )
Thanks for letting us know Critter is fine and up to snuf with her peppers.
Y'all I've had a major OOPS moment with the hellebore seeds I sent some of you. Following is the correct method of germinating them, and what to do with the seeds I sent (or not :)) -
Regarding the Helleborus x hybridus (Christmas Rose) seeds I sent out in this piggy swap, I have to confess that I have mindlessly been plunking down seeds from my garden into paper envelopes or larger bags and then - whenever I got around to it - spreading them out to dry on home-made paper trays or plates or catfood cans, etc. And all this time, I have had the excellent reference of Norm Deno's Seed Germination Theory and Practice right under my nose - not read enough - apparently.
Dry storage is fatal to Helleborus argutifolius, niger and orientalis. The seeds I sent some piggies this time around were dry stored (wrong!) and would only have been useful if I had stored the seeds in barely moist sand in a slightly ventilated baggy in the frig (guessing about this one - see below)*. Urk!
Sooo, would those [ Dryad57, LeBug, Margaran, Meredith79, Starlight ] who received this seed from me contact me next May and remind me to send them fresh seed? Freshly sown seed will germinate best. Anyone can ask, but I will give these particular piggies priority, since they are my primary Oops! victims.
- - - - - - - - - -
There is a possibility that these seeds will germinate, anyway. They are hybrids, and thus contain who-knows-what other genes besides the above mentioned species. So, if y'all would still like to try germinating these seeds, following is my understanding of Deno's recommended germination technique:
1) from http://www.onrockgarden.com/ - "Requires soaking. Place in warm water until seeds swell, usually 24 - 48 hours. Discard floaters and water (IMPORTANT! - hellebore is poisonous, and you do not want children or pets drinking that water)
back to Deno:
2) These seeds should begin germination in a warm cycle (Deno also murdered some hellebore seeds by starting them off cold). Sow the seeds in a sterile medium in a sterile container that has already been moistened and drained. I like to top my germinating medium with a layer of Perlite for additional sterility. Thinly cover the seeds with a little more Perlite. Put the pot into a baggy for 3 months or so (that time can vary, but I don't know by how much) at around 70*F.
3) Next, move to some place where approximately 40*F can be maintained for 3 more months. The seeds need that shift from warm to cold in order to germinate.
If you sow the seeds now, indoors, then it will be about April when it would be a good idea to put them in a refrigerator for another 3 months. I would put them outdoors in July, in shade, and in a spot where you can bottom-water them often enough that they do not dry out too much. When they come out of the refrigerator, take the baggy off if they go outdoors, because the sun will cook them through the plastic - hence the vigilance about keeping them watered. On the other hand, after taking them out of the refrigerator, they can be kept at room temperature indoors. If kept indoors, keep the baggy on - with maybe a teensy little more ventilation - since flourescent lights do not cook seedlings through plastic the way the sun does. And watch to see that it doesn't dry out too much indoors, either.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's interesting that Deno's experiment with GA-3 (Gibberellic Acid - http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm ) killed H. corsicus seeds as well as did dry storage and beginning the germination process at a cold temp. GA-3 can be a miracle when it comes to overcoming natural inhibitors to germination in many types of seeds, but not always.
---------------------------------------------
I am guessing at whether hellebore seeds should be moist-stored warm or cold. When Deno talks about storing Eranthis hyemalis moist at 40*F, he says to germinate it at 70-40. And then he says to moist-store Nemastylis acuta at 70, which germinates at 40-70. So, it looks to me like the temperature of moist storage would be opposite whatever the beginning temperature of a germination cycle would be - which would make moist storage of hellebore cold. In a refrigerator.
Addendum: I just found an exception to this pattern, so we can't really assume anything along these lines.
--------------------------------------------
I just got an SOS from one piggy who just received my seeds - I'll put our questions/answers here, in case it might be helpful to anyone else:
1) Q - "I hurried and put them in the fridge with some moist soil". A - My oops, not yours. I should have done that when I harvested them back in May and June. At this point, per what I wrote above using pot within baggy, I would sow them at a warm temperature, perhaps just outside the range of your grow lights; and then in 3 months, shift them to the frig for another 3 months. And dmail me next May for fresh seed.
2) Q - "I've tried them outside and didn't have any luck should I put them in the fridge for a while then in the spring bring them out under lights like on the bottom shelf where it's cooler?" A - We shouldn't try to germinate hellebore seeds starting with cold temps - they should be started off warm, around 70*F.
-------------------------------------
Well, I am no expert. I am learning right along with everyone else. Sooo - any input will be greatly appreciated. I have a bad habit of misinterpreting things.
-------------------------------------
klstuart - For your database, this is another 70-40 germinator, like Eranthis hyemalis, and requires most storage at 40*F (frig would be fine). You'll need a different category for the 70-40 germinator, Clematis lanuginosa, which can be dry stored either warm (70*F) or cold (40*F) with similar results in tandem with 70-40 germination.
-------------------------------------------
Hope this helps
This message was edited Jan 17, 2009 3:18 PM
Hey - I'm just tickled to have ANY hellebore seeds to try! And, like Suzy said last year - it can't hurt to stick 'em in the ground and see what happens :-)
Robin, dmail me next May if you don't get any seedlings.
If you had fresh seeds, then you would have the best chance of success with sticking 'em in the ground, etc. And I've tried the stick em in the ground technique myself with seeds bought from T & M years ago. LeBug tried wintersowing them last winter. Both of us did not have success. So, it can't hurt to explore other possibilities - especially tried and true.
((((((((BIG SMILE AND THANKS TO EVERYONE))))))
My box came today!!!
...I missed a lot of conversation. Star, thank you so much and prayers go out for your Dad; and your Dad too, LeBug.
Fairy, that list is great - thanks for posting it.
Well, I can see we are all going to be busy this season. I'm looking forward to getting areas for all these ready and starting the seeds. My family and I can't believe the great and incredible variety of seeds. When I think that a single pkt. of seeds from a garden catalog can be $3.95... this amazing collection is a real and appreciated gardening gift.
Thank you all so much and thank you Ella for all you did for us :)
Happy Gardening!
~Diana
this was our front walkway last year!
Wind....... did you just put them cups out there liek that all winter last year?
Re: hellebores. My parents (zone 7 something - mountains of NC) have had lots of self-starters, blown away from the original plant, so I'd think that surface scattering outdoors just after they seed would be the best and easiest method.
Star and Carolyn, you put a lot of smiles on my face! Thank You! HUGS!!!!!
I guess Star understands about layers and feeling like Heidi wearing all her dresses to take them up the mountain. Of course, we do it to stay warm. MIL saw me wearing a headscarf, some think I'm Muslim, MIL thought I looked "Old-Fashioned", I don't care what anyone thinks, as long as I am warm. LOL!
Suzy and Fairy (you really are the bestest Fairy : )), thanks for making all of that planting info easier. Bless you both! : )
Gemini, I talk to myself all the time. Don't care if others think I'm eccentric. Of course I'm usually reciting, " They're coming to take me away, HaHaHoHoHeHe to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time. I anxious to see those nice young men in their clean white coats, they're coming to take me away, HaHa!" : )
I always did like that song. Keeps me sane. : )
Fairy what is SS? Never mind, I figured it out a few more posts down. Seed Starting! Gotcha!
tcs, it varies depending on who is home and how many are visiting. I might get a bit crazy, but I'm never bored! I have two teen boys, and one adolescent Husband. Love them all dearly! : ) I also seem to have a lot of their friends who've become children of my heart, or surrogate children. I've also fostered a few kids in my day. I love kids, and hope for grandkids some day, if for nothing else but to exact the Grandparents revenge, SPOIL THEM ROTTEN AND SEND THEM HOME! Ha Ha Ha! I can wait on the Grandkids, til my kids mature and get married. : )
bluespiral, great info, I'll have to tweak it a bit for my zone, but I hope that it will help gardeners in my Zone. I'll keep everyone posted. I need to figure out which of my seed will need to be refridgerated for my zone. Hmmm.
I love being a good neighbor, but I have a very Contentious neighbor, I can't stand her even though I've really tried hard to be patient and forgiving. DH who is probably the most even tempered person on the planet has reached the point where he doesn't even want to see her out and about. Good neighbors are those who will always help out. I miss it with all the new folks moving into my area. Good thing your DH was there when your friend and neighbor was stung by the bee and went into anaphylactic shock. She can ask her Dr. for a bee sting kit. They have them at the pharmacy, and she should keep it close.
What 'Chele said, BIG GROUP HUGS!
klstuart what a great idea! : ) I'll try too, it'll help the folks in my zone! Like the idea of a spreadsheet.
I know that everyone was posting early on today, and I need to get going, but I have a b.day party to attend today, so won't get to play with my seed until tomorrow. Thanks so much for all the info. It really helps! : )
Looking forward to the future adventures in the garden! : )
WSIB,
SW
SW, I thought that SS = Spread Sheet. Ha! LOL! Hey, but Seed Starting works too! Fairy, can I email you and you will do all my Seed Starting?? ^_^
Hi everyone I wanted to let you all know that I got my seeds today Whoo Hoo They are awesome! There are so many I wasn't expected! It's going to be so fun growing them all!! Thank you everyone! Lynn & Cheles - thank you for the goodies you made with your own hands!! : ) Star Thank you for all the
wonderful seeds and I love all the surprises! Thank you to Everyone that sent me extra surprises. : ) Just plain thanks to everyone!! I had Sooo much fun.
I haven't caught up on the thread yet, I tried last night and fell asleep sitting up in bed with the computer on my lap. I started trying to catch up just now and I wanted to pop in and ask Trish ann what kind of dogs those are? They are too cute! : ) I have to go back and read somemore now.
I used cups like Diana did went "up-planting" my seedlings from their little pods to actual containers. I even went so far as to color coordinate those puppies - got colored cups from Costco, and the green ones were veggies, the yellow ones were annuals, the red ones were perennials, and the blue ones were - well, whatever... I used the heavy duty scissors to cut drainage holes in the bottom so that I could put them in containers and continue to water them from the bottom. In addition to being real cheap (inexpensive) I could also sorta see through the containers to keep an eye on their root development. I'm thinking those are pics of her seedlings from last spring.
Before I forget - what's the trick to starting Pyrethrum? I had no luck with those puppies last year.
At note on the Hellebore germination. ..
Be sure to check them in the fridge every so often when they are in that second, cold phase. I killed some 'Mrs. Betty Ranicar' seeds from T&M by not doing that. Oh, I had excellent germination rates but unfortunately they had germinated early in the fridge and grown into long stringy, anemic, spaghetti plants which didn't survive. I used the baggie method which would have had great results except for that error. :(
You know, I think it's my fridge that has me nervous about doing the Deno method in the fridge. It's about a year old, and I've fiddled with the dial in it to try to keep the temp steady at about 40 degrees - for a while it just wouldn't budge above 35....I'm afraid the thing is too dang cold for baggies of seeds....
The piggie box flew in today - thank you everyone - and especially Ella - for so much generosity, creativity and downright fun :) I did not intend to get a whole lot back, but true piggy that I am at heart - OINK!
Robin - If no one else chimes in about the Pyrethrum (did you mean this one - http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/63874/ ), I would try 70*F, with half the seeds given dark, and the other half light, in about 1 to 4 weeks. Love the silvery leaves on that one - not to mention the boon to furballs' hides. I like the colored transparent cup idea - pretty in the sunshine.
PerennialLyme, the Christmas roses self-sow around our hill, too - but fresh seed has not yet developed the inhibitors to germination that older seed has.
SW & Gemini - let me join the chorus of talking-to-self - I seem to do it mostly in the garden - is that just me?
SW - it was the neighbor who has since moved away that was home that day when Maggie needed help. It took me a few years, but Maggie finally went to see the doctor who prescribed those epinephrine kits for going into shock from bee sting. She used to say that her DH would have to tie her to the roof of his jeep in order to get her to see a doctor. Y'all would have loved her - kind, but with a finely tuned nonsense-detector and a wicked wit when it was activated.
Danita - good point - the same thing happened to me when I germinated daylilies in the frig - but toughies that they are - even though those seedlings were far along and all ghostly white - they greened up once outside and survived
Robin - I suspect there might be a good bit of wiggle room with regard to time lengths and temperatures. Is there a spot in your frig that is the least cold? Maybe where you put the lettuce? You'll have to switch away from lettuce to cabbage, though - methinks I see lots of sauerkraut in your future - lol
So much good info in this thread I had to tag it!
Just finished entering all my seeds. I use the "trade - have" list - but then I disable each plant entered. By using the trade list, I usually have a picture of the plant, and a direct link to the plant files.
You have to be sure to disable - I had literally just entered one plant, and I had a DG member wanting to trade with me! So disable unless you intend to trade.
Anyway - I am embarrassed to say that I now have a collection of 472 different varieties of flowers. I think I am going to have to learn to specialize - but how can I resist when my fellow piggies offer such tempting fare?
:) Seandor I know what you mean. I've just been telling myself, well, you have to try everything once or twice to know what you like! (or 10 times like I tell my daughter with her veggies)
>>You have to be sure to disable
Seandor - i try to do the same thing too... though i do have a comment in there about not having seeds til Fall of 2009, just incase i missed the disable on that one.
I have to say.. i loved the lil note you had for seeds that you could not use and sent to others. that is a great idea.
I"ve written down all the seeds i got [way more than anticipated] but since i had the family over today, i did not get a chance to get them in the PC [spreadsheet and Haves list] yet.
i did give a bunch of seeds [duplicates and ones i have A LOT of] to my sister ... though she did say in about a month, she's coming back to go thru my seeds.
My brother has asked me to come over this spring and help him with his yard.... so i'm saving seeds for him and will grow some perennials for him.... and he doesnt know it yet, but he's gonna give me some hosta divisions.
Fairy Thank you for that list from Suzy - I copied it and put it in my seed starting blog. : )
Ooops - I meant to ask you if you braved the cold for your seeds yet?
This message was edited Jan 17, 2009 6:03 PM
Cheles-I can email you my SS with all my info from last year, but that is all I can do with time constraints;)
Hi, Star, that was a photo of seedlings in June last year :) I did winter sow (for the first time) some in different containers last winter, then I transplanted to the cups.
Dryad, I never thought of color coding the cups!!! A clear indicator of who the pros are from the beginners like me :))) I did have great success winter sowing and can't wait to try it again. I haven't set any out yet for this year.
Actually, we still have a few flats outside leftover from last years seedlings - out in this bitter cold! I tossed some fall leaves on some of them. I'm curious to see what makes it and comes back next year. I did manage to plant some nice plants that grew from Critter's rumex seeds and her rose campion before the first freeze.
This years seed growing should be veeeeerrrrrry interesting because we have three feral cats in our sunroom, where we have the plant light rack!
Pro?? Bwahahahahah!!!!
were you on the floor laughing Robin??
Fairy, I was just teasing. SW had asked what SS meant and then she stated "seed starting". Since you said to email you for the SS thought I'd ask if you'd start my seeds. Kidding!
You guys rock!
Thank you, thank you thank you! (And no, I didn't finish all the stuff on my to-do list before busting open the envie. I'm only human after all!) Just the bounty of seeds was more than enough to put a big old grin on my face, and I really applaud those of you who went that extra step and included the hand made goodies.
Can I get in on the group hug?
Fairy - alllmoooossst on the floor, but I couldn't let my laptop fall on the floor so I had to stay in the chair and just be content with not spitting my tea on the keyboard :-D
Group hug!!
OK, I'm gonna take a break for the rest of the day and have a cool beverage and watch some old baseball....
YIPPPEEEE .... got my piggy pack today and it is wonderful! Haven't begun to fully delve into it yet, but plan to in just a moment. I just wanted to get on here and let you know that it has arrived and to thank everyone again for their wonderful generosity and to thank Ella again for all her hard work..... I can't imagine trying to keep all of that straight!! I am worried about keeping MY PILE straight and knowing what I have and what to do with it - and you had THOUSANDS of packs to deal with. You are definitely amazing!!
So glad to hear that your dad is back home. Hope he gets some good food and starts feeling better soon. My son is scheduled for back surgery next Friday - so I am hoping to get "organized" with these seeds before then! Doesn't give me much time..... since I wasn't expecting him to have it that soon! Thanks to everyone for your prayers. I feel very good about this doctor and procedure - and it is a problem that if it isn't fixed, he can end up with a lot more serious issues....so here we go....
How do I "tag" this info or access the spread sheets?
Haven't had a chance to get pics for my foundation planting suggestions yet - but did anyone suggest WHERE to post the thread? or did I miss that in trying to catch back up?
Thanks.....off to look at all the goodies!
Genna
Whoo Hoo!
Got mine today :-)))) I can't thank you all enough! I had a chance to open it while the baby took a nap. What a creative group!:-) I enjoyed opening each and every one. Thank you!
And THANK YOU Ella. For all your hard work. This was hands down a GREAT swap. I had loads of fun. And by the looks of it.... will still be having it ;-) Snort LOL
Genna, not sure what info you want to tag, but you can tag the entire thread by clicking on the little folder pic at the top right of the screen and giving it a name (and decide if it's a personal or public tag). You can also tag individual posts by clicking on the post number under the individual's name and date to the left, which will open a separate window which you can then tag.
I think you may want to consider starting your picture thread in the Cottage Garden section...we all check there regularly, and you'll get a lot of other folks peeking in and giving suggestions and opinions as well.
Robin
Thanks! I had been trying to copy and paste info to a word doc when I would find info I would want to "remember" but I am having trouble keeping up and keeping it in any type of order that I can retrieve.............
When I get some pics, I will try to get a new thread started.
Got a chance to look thru my seeds and so many of them I cant remember WHAT they are, so I will have a LOT of PF searching to do, but it will be loads of fun if just some of them make it............
Thanks!
Genna
Up so decided to check and see how the rest of the piggies doing since stil had abotu half not checked in yet.
Everbody in but these couple and Robynest they tried to deliver you and left a note so your there.
NBgard. your in home town so you should get yours tommorrow
Rather.. same for you though why you didn't get your s yet puzzle sme but you shoudl have tommorrow
Already told wanna 2 bee survior hers in her home town she wil get tommorrow and then that just leave s the long haul flyer.
Cross yoru fingers toes and plant stems if ya have too to make sure that ones hits ok.
Soon as that oen hits I cna wallow in my trough. Can't wait to see who sent me what. Gonna be a bunch of surprises. I so excited. Wil do that little jig liek the new poptart commercial animated kid does. LOL
Ya I thought SS was seed startign too and was gonna ask if ya wanted to start me. LOL
You are silly:) Sorry, sometimes I use abbreviations and assume everyone else knows what they mean..
Mornin'! The SS ;-) is coming along nicely! Lala is helping, and we're getting a bunch of info from websites. Even though it's out there already, it will be nice to have it all in one place! Should be just a couple of days till finished I think... well maybe never finished, I'm sure there will be additions, and improvements all the time!
When I posted the first time, I'm not sure If I'd figured out how to make it public. Now anyone should be able to view it. You've just gotta email me if you want to be able to edit it.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=ptKk7FNDx_-LNbZM431UzDQ&hl=en
Star.... I forgot to mention... Please keep the rest of the postage. However you want to use it, It's yours. I got more than I ever imagined in this swap for so little and I'm greatful for that. :-) Thanks, Andrea