The dawning of..........

Crossing all my fingers and toes!

R.

Have you got 300 of them?

No, but I have a good imagination!!

I imagine that all 1000 *pairs* of my gloriosoideian digits (naturally occurring pincer-like appendages in a formerly non-existent dimension) are now crossed and will remain so for as many years as it take to see the progeny flower.

Just how modern is embryo culture?

Not all that "space-age" it seems : http://www.bulbnrose.com/Heredity/Tukey/Tukey_Growth/Tukey_Growth.html

Robert.

You also expect there to be a positive result! If we all put our positive minds in gear, and all cross our 1000 pairs of gloriosoideian digits, who knows!

It was a long article, but the first bit and the end gave an insight. The way I see it, is that nature has provided a back up for reproduction in case the mature seeds get eaten or come to a sticky end. A creature may eat good seed, but wouldn't bother with those that are nutritionally poor. The surrounding pod would provide food for the immature seed to continue to grow and hey presto, the plant gets to reproduce.

And who knows, maybe there is something in the mature seed that acts on the surrounding pod to tell it they are OK and will grow, a chemical reaction of sorts. If the seed is eaten this may not happen, so triggering the feeding of the immature seeds to maturity. Nature has it all sorted, they do state at the end that this happens better in the natural surrounding than artificial methods. I have had good success with leaving seeds in pods that will dry around them, and leaving them in the soil next to the parent, such as Zantedeschia.

Great insight there, Wallaby1.

The most surprising part to me was that the paper is from 1938.

Robert.

I believe in transcendental pollenation. Doesn't everyone? Wallaby, you'll always get good vibes from me.

I like your possible offsprings' names. I'll have to check my botanical Latin book for adjective agreement. And the ICBN rules. LOL

Actually, if the cross has never been down before YOU get to name the grex for it, like;
Lilium xjanetensis 'Glopinense'

What a hoot!

Oh I'm not really surprised at timely happenings, it's been going on for yonks. When you realise the Romans made batteries, well......

Lefty I'm 'owling at that! Do you know, my surname (as maiden and now) is Rowley, and there are plants called rowleyanus as a species, a certain Rowley (Gordon?) also wrote books on cactii. If you separate the word, rowley-anus, I think I would opt for your suggestion!

'glopinense' sounds acceptable to me!

wallaby1~

I'm retorically wondering: If they were looking into embryo culture so long ago, why aren't things further along than it seems they are? Maybe I'm thinking that more applications of such studies should been made in horticulture and agriculture. Maybe there are and we just don't hear of it.......

It seems like meristem reproduction of orchids was the industry standard for soooo long before it eventually gave rise to tissue culture. Why the long lag?

Guess there wasn't any military application for it. =8-Z

Can't wait to see your name under a pic of an xjanewallapilipopiglorioum bloom.

Robert.

Earlier than that, 1925 mentioned here

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p36808r7k2584j26/

As always research requires money, and the market needs to be convinced that spending on research can be justified in terms of future profitability.

chances are low

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n06856x425862381/

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%27lilium+embryo+rescue%27&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&hl=en&btnG=Search

I like the name but don't think I could pronounce it!

rowleyanus . . . fortunately, I am guessing that that epithet would only be use as a species name, not the hybrid (grex). I think you'd be safe from embarrassment on that one.

anus - never thought of it that way before. Man, I've got to get into the real world more!

Don't you kids make me come in there!

R.

Isn't it AMAZING what this thread has come to!

LOL! and that's what keeps us coming back!

{BEG}

R.

I can't stop myself...........we're getting to the bottom of it!

lololololololo---RowleyotflmA---o !!!

What I want to know is........... What time IS it in Lincoln UK? LOL

Right now it is Sunday 6:13 AM.

Consider the lilies of the field, how they stay up all night all over the world.......

That they do! LOL Wallaby was up very late.... or very early.

Shhhh! She's prolly *still* up and just not posting to make us think she's turned in! LOL!

R.

I'm going to pretend I'm going to bed too. ;)

Oh raydio you are tooooooo funny!

You are right, I was up very late, or very early, but as I hadn't already gone to bed it was the former! I did bog off (I always use that term!) after that and go to bed with a chuckle. Nothing unusual, it takes so long to get caught up with everything I just don't tire, it's so enjoyable. mostly 6.5 hours in bed and a grumble to myself that I should get more sleep! It was 4am, my clock is still at winter time.

I have checked the gloriosoides seed 'pods', 4 flowers dropped now I think and still all there, not swelling yet, but looking swell. I'm getting palpitations thinking about it! Or is it just that I'm tired......

I have one seed pod on Dizzy, looking sort of big, I didn't do anything to it but there was still some of Bellingham Hybrid open I think, next to it, this is exciting!

wallaby1~

Dave's is open all night for those of us who want to party allatime, party allatime, party alla-ti-ime! An all night garden party at Dave's !! Last one out, douse the lights but leave the door open. :-D

Robert.

Calling my colleague! Calling my colleague! Just to let you know that the Crossing Polygons of the Genus Lilium has an ARROW pointing from pardalinum (part of Bellingham hybrids makeup) to oriental! Now who would have thunk that would work, they are native to two different continents for crying out loud. Is the seed pod on Dizzy pointing... up? This could be cause to PARTY!

Hey yes it is! Does the arrow mean it shouldn't do it? Sounds like it should!

Gone 4.30. was waiting for a pic to load but DG not very co-operative tonight! I did take a pic of it today, will post it tomorrow. (raydio, reason to party!)

WOW, so this means I have already beaten the odds?

Don't you think that the Crossing Polygons of the Genus Lilium sounds... astrological?

The arrow means compatible and points to the pod compatible parent. So pardy pollen on Dizzy Wizzy, the pod parent. If you have some fungicide (like rose spray) you should give the pods a squirt as they take a long time to develop and the season is getting short. That's the problem with late bloomers such as orientals, sometimes (I've read) you may have to cut the stalk and bring it in. Today I was out spraying all my pods with 0.4% sulfur, a rose spray I had on hand.

The polygons are found here:

http://www.liliumbreeding.nl/polygon.htm

Definitely astrological! The star signs fit our characteristics too!

It was the 'thunk that could work' bit that was throwing me, too late for serious thinking! I will have to study that chart well, this becomes more interesting all the time. Looking at it I see that pardalinum ONLY points to oriental. That part of Bellingham hybrid did the job! Not sure what else it has in it.

So what were the chances I would have one next to Dizzy, and still in flower, and have the pollinators. It will have been the butterflies and Silver Y moths that did it, they were always visiting them. The Brimstone butterfly kept returning to Bellingham, not sure if it went to Dizzy, and they had to be hatched at the right time. I did see Red Admiral butterflies on Dizzy. The Silver Y moth feeds in the day, the only other one is the Hummingbird Hawk moth and they have been around for a lot longer than than they are supposed to be, I read they are a later migrant, the season may have encouraged them earlier, or they are breeding here. They have been seen briefly the last 2 years but this year I saw them a lot in that area, but only saw them briefly on the dahlia le Baron and Phlox Nicky, I have 2 young plants in that area. They may have visited the lilies, they do like very scented flowers. I was surprised to see the Brimstones on Bellingham, there was no scent but they seemed to be getting nectar from the raised lumps. I think it was the Silver Y moths, they were on everything.

Whatever, I have a seed pod! ONE only, 2 Dizzy lilies both had 4 flowers each.

It's in a fairly open area and does get reasonable sun, the ground is also sandy soil. We are having VERY warm weather for this time of year, back up to 22C, 25 the other day, the next ten days are going to be still warmish and 12C or so at night. Mostly our weather doesn't change for worse seriously until end of October, it can be mild right into December. We had the bad one last year, hoping this year will be a good autumn. I feel lucky!

Going to try to post a pic, the last one I tried implied there was a photo to enlarge but it wasn't there!

The seed pod on Dizzy started to yellow, this morning there was a slight split at the top so I pulled it apart.

Did anyone notice that 'bump' in the middle? There was lots of tiny, unmade browned seed, and in the middle a lump, a green lump! Too thick to be a normal seed, almost kidney shaped, and I believe it may have something in the middle.

It's about 1/8" long, on the off chance that something will grow from it I have put it in my propogator. A sort of 'embryo rescue'!

Anyone have any clues about this?

The flower fell off the L. philippinense that I plastered with gloriosoides pollen, leaving a very long seed maybe pod. I'm praying! This happened on the 24th.

I haven't ever heard of that green "thing" before, but I would do just what you did: try to geminate it.

I think it could be a weird sort of pre-bulbil kind of thing...as a sort of emergency reproductive effort, maybe. Will try to search for similar occurances.

I have heard of people taking "green" seed and germinating it straightaway.

BTW: I selfed my Dizzy with no resultant seed.

Good luck with your "gloriophil" cross!

Robert.

Wallaby~

Why don't you post the green thingy on the ID forum or start a new thread on the lily forum about it, in case there are some that aren't following this thread who might know something?

Robert.

Hmm, that's what I was thinking, a sort of bulbil. Ooohhh, germinating straight away????? Tummy wobbles!

Not sure what words would work best in a search.

Well, I'm not really into one-upmanship, BUT!!!!!!

What do you think is best, 'glopinense' sounds worldly, or should we go with a 'gloriophil', it kinda sounds up there and with it. Keeping positive here!

Good idea! Maybe tomorrow, if pardy or lefty come in they might know something.

I don't know anything...

OK.. is it kind of... soft and squishy or hard?

This message was edited Sep 27, 2006 7:43 PM

Wallaby this is all very exciting.

It's hardish (didn't want to test it!), one side looked to have little bumps on it, almost as if they were the beginnings of roots. I thought about this later, and thought maybe I should have placed that side to the bottom, I will have to have a look!

magnolia, I am full of anticipation!

Looking at the pic, you can see little bumps along the front edge and maybe a 'pimple' further back in the middle. Thinking again, would these root from the top of the bulb, if it happened to be a tiny bulb? the pimple may be a growth point!

Ooh, this is exciting!

Well I know less than Pard's "I don't know anything". But . . .

If I could copy off your pics, I could bring them to the next North Star Lily Society meeting this Saturday. In adition to all the other lily members(that include Ruth and Hugh Cocker and Frans Officer), the speaker is Warren Summers, a lily hybridizer and I could even ask him! This is so excellent because I guess he also has a passion for species lilies. I am going to bring him the photos of Gemini_sage's too, and ask him about L. phillipinense vs. L. formosanum.

That UPO (unidentified growing object) is so small. But if you can somehow squeeze a clearer pic of it, so much the better. And of course any more info might help. I am looking at the Dizzy pod pic. Do you mean that the UPO was just below the brown blind seed(if that's what they are) that are in the center top of the pod? Is there any kind of demarkations inside the UPO? From the pic, it looks pretty homogenous. This is going to be such a great Lily Society meeting for me. There is a social hour before the meeting proper. I am nearly, almost, maybe confident I can find the answer.

Rick

Regarding glopinense, we have a mythical conundrum here: is it a combination of the two epithets gloriosoides and phillipinense, or is it meant to use ense (meaning "from" or "of"), in which case glopinense would mean "from Glopi". I think I would go back to my original suggestion: janetensis, although I would have to do some checking to see if the adjective agreement is there (it might be janetense).

Just food for thought for those who care! LOL