DAILY PICTURES # 111

Kim, Congrats again! Will the newly eclosed BF's continue to stay on the milkweed until the weather warms up? I assume they are nectaring even though they're staying put?

Vitrsna, that's a great idea surrounding the milkweed with other plants. The Queen cat seems to appreciate your efforts. What types of plants don't draw predators?

I have a question for those of you growing Tropical Milkweed in containers. Some of the Milkweeds I considered trying in containers (to place in a sunny area) have long tap roots possibly making container growing difficult. Does Tropical Milkweed have a tap root? It's not native in my area, but it might be worth growing a little bit of it in containers.

Nuts, I grew 35 Tropical milkweed plants from seeds this year since it is an annual here. These plants got about 3 feet tall and started to bloom. Then several female monarchs visited them in early August and about three weeks later no leaves. The cats devoured them and I had to feed about 40 cats from wild sources. The roots appeared very shallow and easy to pull out of the ground. Several stems which I had placed in water cups in the pillar house have rooted. I will try to overwinter these in a sunny inside spot.
Leaves are growing back and several plants are starting to flower again. Hopefully I will get seeds before the first frost. The flowers are a plus for this milkweed.
Note that in some parts of the U.S. the planting of Tropical milkweed is controversial. In California some argue that Tropical milkweed in north central area holds up the migration south and thus a negative effect on migration and the west coast population of monarchs. I have not seen any real scientific data either negative or positive on this matter.

Ivy, Thanks for the info and relating your experiences with Tropical Milkweed. Since it roots quickly, I wonder if staggering growth and keeping some plants away from the Monarchs would make more available after they devour the first batch?

As far as the controversy...I will try to find some links to articles I read that were very informative regarding this subject. Apparently, studies have shown that cutting back Tropical Milkweed as it gets late in the season remedies the issue of migration. Also periodic trimming back refreshes the plant and it's believed might prevent the dangerous protozoan parasite it can carry in areas where it grows constantly. The parasite doesn't seem to be a problem in areas where it grows as an annual, but it's probably not a bad idea to cut it back at the end of the season, just in case.

Of course since it's not native to the U.S. it can really spread so controlling it is important and one of my biggest concerns about growing it.

This message was edited Oct 2, 2015 12:10 PM

Thanks Lily...i would have thought that the enclosures would require ventilation, but whatever you are doing is working very well...the evidence could not be more clear. Healthy caterpillars and healthy butterflies, great success.

That's a good question Nuts :-), i am struggling with the answer. It would be a plant that ideally has no flowers, but i can't use a palm because they are all too big. Also here palms are host plants for a variety of caterpillars. And where i live just about everything growing is a host for something and the proximity to the milkweed would cause my most avid predators the wasps to want to explore there. Almost all of my caterpillars choose non-plant items to pupate on because the predators don't look there. So i have decided on a non-plant item, possibly covered with dead leaves and also covered with sun shade material as shown in the photo, but i think i will use a brown shade fabric instead of the green one shown here. I don't think the predators will be interested in exploring this non-plant item in the same way they were not interested in exploring the dead leaves. This is meant for nap times while the caterpillars are still growing and eating and not for pupating. I think it will work, i hope it will work.

Hmmm...what about fake plants? Looking at pics of Kim's chrysalides, they were attaching themselves right to the glass of her pillar house. I wonder if large-leafed or multi-leafed plastic plants would help. Granted, aesthetically they sure wouldn't add anything.

NAN, I really don't know whether the BFs will nectar before their long journey. Conventional common sense tells us they need to "eat" before they take flight? Not so much so from my practical experience, as I've watched my Black Swallowtails butterflies in many occasion when I released them. Usually I carefully select the release-site that has abundant flowers hoping they will use the food source before taking flight?. But time and time again, they've proven that I was wrong. They showed no interest on nectaring, but promptly take flight as the weather, wind, environmental situation permits -- or an inherent drive to fly?

Of the many Monarch I released yesterday, one of which couldn't wait to get outdoor, it took off likes a fast airplane as soon as I hit the deck! It bypassed the MW pot that I set outdoor to allow 'em to perch before they fly off.

Today; before lunch hours, the 3 Monarchs that overnight here outside on the MW pot were still there. The drizzles have since gone, but the wind was still blowing. After lunch hours, however, they already took off. Temp. still in the low 70F and windy.

On the 3rd pix, it's the small container that I used for my plumeria. In years past, MW seeds germinated there by natural selection, as a result I've half a dozen tropical MW plants in the same pot. That explains what I meant by "piggy back in" with others plants as previously mention.

Oooops, shall I say "Piggy bag" in. Please pardon my accent. lol

vitrsna, back on the issue of ventilation. The glass house isn't air-tight. There are ventilation gaps along the side of the door. I hope that answer your question?

We've cross posted on several entries above. The issues of bacteria and what all else that could harbor among our plants that over- winter, or even perennials in tropical/subtropical climes? I am so glad to see questions are raised, so that we all can learn more about -- how to care for our garden, and promote healthy plants for healthy butterflies - in a nut shell.

For those of us that interested in take cuttings, and stagger the "food source" for our lovely Monarchs.

This is what I do this year.

Those cuttings that I took to rear my Monarch larvae indoor. Once the leafy portions are eaten down, I took them out, and replaced with fresh cuttings. Not all was going to the trash bin. I rooted them by simply put them in cups of clean water. Be sure to rinse all the debris and keep your cutting as clean as possible. I change out the water every other 2-3 days. Placed the cuttings under a light source, let it be natural light, or florescent light. Mine is florescent. This process begun as soon as I started my cats collection in early last month. As of today. I've this many cuttings, I will share 'em with my local butterflies enthusiastic friends, or donate them to my favorite nursery in my small town, let's them promote their sales to the general population who will find tropical MW do have their place in our garden.

Back to my butterflies nursery: My last caterpillar spun its silk last night, before lunch it was actively transforming to a chrysalis, right now at the moment. In my inventory, I've 5 green chrysalids -- ah, chrysalides (thank you N.A.N.) and no more larvae in the glass pillar house. Sniff sniff, unless y'all from up north send me more Monarch down my way.

Nuts said (by the way Nuts, do you prefer NAN?) "Hmmm...what about fake plants?" I don't think i could bring myself to do plastic plants (or any other type of fake plant), Nuts but thanks for thinking of an alternative idea.

I have been observing for 8 years now and in my garden, historically, when they are finished eating on a plant (if they are not in cages or shedding), they have shown a strong preference for tables, walls, chairs, and other non-organic structures when pupating. Approximately, i guess only 3 out of every 12 caterpillars will select another plant to pupate on. For awhile, i had a decorative clay ewer on the patio. One Monarch caterpillar chose to pupate inside the ewer just below the neck. I gave the chrysalis a couple of days to harden and tried to remove it from the ewer, but was not successful. Nine days later, the Monarch exited the chrysalis. I wasn't sure what to do to get him out, but i knew that first and most important was for him to have strong, rigid wings. So i waited. I had given up on the idea of breaking the ewer...too dangerous for this bug. I waited for strong wings and picked up the ewer, set it on the patio table, turned it upside down with space between the table and the ewer and pounded on the bottom like one does with cold ketchup bottles. He came out, kerplop, on the table with all legs spread flat out and looking bewildered but he was in one piece. I offered a finger and put him on a friendly plant to wait until he was ready to fly, which he did do strongly and swiftly and undamaged. Then i gifted the ewer to a neighbor who had admired it.

I've had a number of caterpillars make chrysalises on glass so i think this is not so unusual Lily.

I have also observed that Monarchs here do not eclose and eat. They eclose and when they are flight ready, the prime mover is to reproduce...later they eat. Maybe this is the romantic latino spirit that gets to them here. I don't know, but eating is definitely not the first priority in my garden. Eating appears to be a stronger motivation for the smaller butterflies, as far as i have seen. When the DNA in them says "it is time to fly", they fly, they must fly now. When they are behind schedule to make a chrysalis, they can make a chrysalis (if they are healthy) much faster that we normally observe.

Vitra and all, I concur with vitrsna's observation. Monarchs in the open garden they do tend to wander off in seemingly safe places to pupate -- in contrast in captivity, literally they do not some how "sense" a source of threat or danger? Because the lack of threat to their safety, they then freely spin their silk where they see fit? Keep in mind these 5th instars 'wander' about pretty extensively before they settled down to rest and morph to a j-form. Just my thought. I said all that to say this: In the wild, it's said a very small percentage of caterpillars will make it to be a full grown butterfly. That's why we collectively gather here to share our thoughts and idea.

1. Newly emerged Monarchs
2. The Glass house in its entirety
3. Various stages of developments of the chrysalides
4. Light color chrysalides, dark color chrysalis signifies it's about to eclose
5. Bottom of glass house is lined with paper towel for ease of cleaning. Pix shows one Monarch's spreading its wings and was ready for release. Another newly emerged Monarch has yet dried out its wings.

Kim ~ Thank you so much for your wonderful tutorials...everything from raising Monarchs to starting Milkweed cuttings! It's been fascinating and sooo informative. I plan to bookmark the entire #111 thread! Your step-by-step photos have been great.

Looks like you're going to be an empty-nester soon, but don't be sad. I bet the next generation of Monarchs will head directly to "Kim's Buffet" to start the process all over again.

I think it is air motion , the when they pupate , if a screen is at the top of a container , the ones I raised would always spin on the screen
The round top containers , air motion at the top ,
rolled up leaves at the top or near top of plants ,
And they react badly to dirty containment , and they always look clean right before they pupate
.

Nuts...no, no, no, don't ever apologize for offering a new idea or suggestion, don't even hesitate. Nothing is too outlandish. You can't believe some of the weirdo things i have tried.

As for the caterpillars preferring inorganic structures to pupate on (at least in my garden), yes i believe it is completely survival motivated. If they have been bothered by predators, especially.

The predators cruise certain plants that historically they know there is a possibility of finding caterpillars (i.e. lunch). Somehow the caterpillars know that most predators will not look under chairs or tables or such. The day the caterpillar pupated in the ewer would have been a high risk predator day.

A couple of years ago i tried an experiment by changing host plants. The Giant Swallowtails (GST) had been laying eggs on the Rue plants in the garden for a few years. I was loosing so many of them to predators. So, i started growing Choisya ternata (a Rutaceae) in addition to the Rue. I didn't know how well or if the GST would recognize the Choisya as a host plant. The Choisya t. grew well (and such a pretty plant) and when it was large enough, a GST chose it right away to lay eggs. It is a plant native to Mexico, but not in my area. I was delighted. She left no more than 4 eggs and left no eggs on the Rue. When the big wasps came into my garden, i noticed they cruised the Rue but did not cruise the Choisya at all during the time the GST caterpillars were growing up. The Choisya was completely ignored by the predators. GST lay eggs on the top of each leaf. The caterpillars grow up lounging, pupating, etc. on the top of the leaves right in the faces of the predators...somehow they know that they are too small to bother with. When they are larger caterpillars, they begin to hide themselves. I had four generations of babies and did not loose one of them. It was during the rainy season and unfortunately after the 4th successful generation of caterpillars with no losses, the plant dropped dead. I was bereft. It took me 3 years to find that plant. When i went to pull it up it had no roots. I haven't been able to replace it, but now i have healthy little seedlings of Murraya paniculata (Orange Jasmine but in the Rutaceae Family) growing that i hope will take the place of the Choisya i lost. These 4 generations of GST pillars had such perfectly serene lives, what a joy that was.

It is more important for the survival of the species if the mating takes place before they eat. Everything is about survival (per Dr. Jeffrey Glassberg in some article or other).

J7, i too have noticed that caterpillars are not tolerant of having poops where they are eating.

vitrsna , Outdoors in the wild , it might be why they crawl higher on plants also , material breaking down on the ground level ,, They do not seem fond of that either , at least most of them ,
Like woolly bears , (i know slang) their always seen by us , they walk high in grassy area , are always traveling on concrete , or crawling high up to them over all kinds of debris and so forth ,
As is their nature , seems to be green or pollen odors , or air motion away from ground level
Could even be why some chew on fruit ? clean , pollen ,odor , like their plant food ,

Ju ~ Pretty interesting. I would never have suspected they'd pupate right on the screen. Of course the part about not wanting to be around the poop makes sense. Who'd want to spend much time right in the middle of a pile of poop? :o)

Vitrsna ~ Thanks. But you'd be surprised how goofy my ideas can get.

How devastating to spend three years searching for the perfect host plant only to have it die of root rot just when it was looking beautiful! I hope you find another one. You piqued my interest so I looked it up. I guess people in the U.S. even grow it, but what surprised me is that it seems to be quite popular in Britain. Go figure.

Ivy ~ Here is the link to one of the articles I mentioned that responds to the controversy over Tropical Milkweed. There has been a lot of research done in places like California that shows how the deadly protozoan parasite can be avoided as well as problems with migration. Really, all that needs to be done is to cut back the plants several times a year if they are growing year around. This creates new, fresh growth which seems to alleviate the problem.

http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=16499


This message was edited Oct 4, 2015 9:19 AM

Thanks everyone for all your input. NAN, the link seems to be a good read. I'll try to book mark it for some other time. Thank you for sharing.

The weather is nice here, temp. has cooled down quite a bit. I can feel for the folks in the East coast with flood/rain, which sometimes we do get down here as well. I'm taking the advantage of the nice cool weather and try to do something for the garden outdoor.

For those of us that are growing tropical MW, those in my garden begin to show some ripen seedpods. Here goes!

Exactly Lily...when people come and want to handle the caterpillars, i always make them wash their hands first :-) Caterpillars are careful about taking good care of their skin and are at risk from certain toxins like perfumed hand lotion, cleaning products, etc. That's probably why you see their preference for walking on cement and bricks as opposed to underbrush J7. When i am watering the plants they are on, they get mad at me when i accidentally spray them with a hose. Different caterpillars show their displeasure in different ways. The Monarchs beat their heads against a branch for example, and the Swallowtails show their osmeterium. They keep themselves as clean as they can...again for survival reasons. I am very careful when i water plants that have caterpillars on them.

Osmeterium? Hah, the Black Swallowtails larvae do that, like Monarch larvae they are munching machines. Raising Monarch cats indoor, it's funny to watch them "beat their heads" back and forth when other larvae inadvertently cross their path. (pix taken this time last year).

Beautiful photos Lily...yes, all the Swallowtail caterpillars have osmeterium as a defense mechanism :-)

Hey NAN, thanks for the well wish regarding the Monarchs stopping by the buffet I've built it for them. LOL, I just saw a fly by but it ain't stopping. Barhumbug! lol. Oh maybe later. At the mean time, I'm looking for ways to improve in my garden, what I can do for the next generation as you've stated.

Hi everyone, "Journey South" official website has some interesting writing about "helping the Monarch", and other educational articles that we all maybe interested about. It's worthwhile to look at them. Most of all there will be large number of Monarchs will crossing Texas! Woooowooo! I want to be there where the Monarchs are! (wishful thinking at this time of course).

Here in my garden. My first tropical MW seedpod exploded! Yup, it literally burst open. The first 2 pictures are the seeds at close up. Next pic. is the opened seedpod, next pix is, as many of us recognizes the tropical MW flowers cluster. Last but not least, shows a few seedlings escaped into the deck below. These escapees will be carried by wind to location where they will NOT flourish in our zone/weather/temp. in the winter. Thus, growing them in my garden isn't a threat to spread them all over the neighboring area.

It is well worth a visit, Lily, to see the Monarchs arriving in Michoacan. There are various places for viewing them, mostly easy to get to places and hard to get to places. I traveled there with friends my first year in Mexico and we chose Cerro Pelon (Bald Mountain) which was most definitely challenging. It was early February and the weather was cool and overcast. We climbed and climbed and all of a sudden the sun came out, and the butterflies came down from the mountain to greet us. There were so many, you could hear the sound of the air against their wings. :-)

Kim ~ great pics of the "exploding" seed pods!
Also, Thanks for the Monarch info. Journey South?

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/monarch/index.html

If we're referring to the same site, it is wonderful and very informative.

Vitrsna ~ what a fantastic experience with the Monarchs! Kind of a once-in-a-lifetime sight.

I am only sitting in enjoying all this . Great thread still ,
I won't keep many I let them run around and do what they do , (caterpillars) If I raise enough that four or five return , the numbers here increase or stay the same ,
All that is good info and interesting , but the places of habitat for them to exist naturally is still the point ,

Since the Monarchs are finished oviposting and headed southward, I've been nurturing other caterpillars. This morning a Cloudless Sulphur eclosed which had been reared on Coffee weed. A few cats on the passion vines, both Gulf and Variegated fritillaries. One variegated escapee from the pillar house formed its chrysalis on a lawn pole. Friday, I observed several Giant Swallowtail cats on Rue at the Linnaeus Gardens in Tulsa. A little late in the season and edge of northern range.
Looks like a busy butterfly time until frost.

I've been out taking photos of this and that and here are a few. I've seen at least 6 Monarch's today - out and about.

The last hummingbird I saw was two days ago. He was partaking of my pineapple sage and I heard him before I saw him.

Ivy, love those pics. of various cats. and the Cloudless Sulphur. I ventured out to a small field nearby where I live, which has wild passionflowers growing -- in search of those Fritillaries, but none was found. I've seen Gulf Frits frequent my garden here in the past. Where as the Variegated frits were a rarity. Their chrysalides are so beautiful, I hope to rear some one of these days, just to marvel about their beauties. The Giant Swallowtails are some of the butterflies in which I haven't seen in my area. Are those butterflies bigger than others, thus called giants?

Brendak, those are great pics.! I haven't seen very many Monarch, but a few fly by, now and then.

But, wooohooo! I released 2 more female Monarchs today. The day was sunny and beautiful. I bid them farewell, there couldn't be better time to see them take flight.

CA, Brenda, and Lily congrats on your fine photos! It looks like your zinnias are a big hit Brenda. The Giant Swallowtails are the largest butterflies in the US and Canada, Lily and they do stand out in a crowd.

Thanks vitr. for your reply. I do agree with everyone's about Zinnias being a big hit. I may blame my neighbors for having attracting all the butterflies to their garden instead of mine this year. lol

Update on my Monarch season; yesterday I released two male Monarchs, today I released a male and another female. That means I've the last chrysalis that pupated a day after my first released the first Monarch for the season. All and all, I'm so very lucky this season. I'll sign off after this post. Happy butterflies gardening everyone.

More Monarch's today and one lonely little hummingbird, which I was very surprised to see.

What a surprise. A tattered Great Spangled flew to the backyard oak tree at dusk for a resting place. So dark that I needed flash for a pic.

Isn't this a rare find in your area, CA? I see on the east coast they range from Massachusetts to the Carolinas. Maybe a survivor of the severe rains recently?

vitrsna, Great Spangled are fairly common here from late spring thru autumn. Seem to like coneflowers and sunflowers during the summer. Although they frequent the backyard, I often see them in riparian areas of AR & OK on wild sunflowers or Button bush. They also seem to like Orange Butterfly weed along the roadsides of the Ozark hills.
Those pictured were sighted from early June to early August.

Very nice CA and thank you. It's always especially enjoyable to see pics of the ones that don't get down my way.

4 Queens eclosed in the garden this morning. Pics are still in the camera. 10 more should be coming out tomorrow (Thursday). Monarchs can show up here anytime in October, November, December although they may give this area a wide berth due to our exploding volcano. There should have been some in the Spring as well in April and May but there were no butterflies in those months with the exception of one Giant Swallowtail and one Crescent. The volcano has calmed down now considerably but still erupts once every couple of weeks or so. In April and May it was exploding spectacularly...it was eerie with no butterflies. I'll be curious to see what the next 3 months bring, if anything. I'll be ready for them at any rate.