Fall RU 09-Plant swap

AuntB, I think that plant you asked about might've been the davesgarden newsletter's plant of the week. Not sure if thats what mine is, but it sure looks and sounds like it with the exception of flowers. It could start flowering sometime soon, dunno. Epiphyllum oxypetalum is the official name for this plant, but its common names are "Queen of the Night" and "Night-blooming Cereus". It sounds like it might be about halfway to flowering, I started it as a cutting a little over 2 years ago. Do you want it? If yours blooms white, you may have one just like it.
Or if anybody would like a cutting of it, I could snip off leaves, It apparently starts by leaf cuttings.

The newsletter came in my email, I don't know its web address, I just copied some of it here - .
Will

"Welcome to the Dave's Garden Newsletter for September 07, 2009

Gardening is a kind of disease. It infects you, you cannot escape it. When you go visiting, your eyes rove about the garden; you interrupt the serious cocktail drinking because of an irresistible impulse to get up and pull a weed. -- Lewis Gannitt

Plant of the Week
Queen of the Night
Epiphyllum oxypetalum

Epiphyllum oxypetalum is the official name for this plant, but its common names, "Queen of the Night" and "Night-blooming Cereus," are easier to say and both conjure apt images of this fascinating plant.

A member of the Cactus family, Epiphyllum oxypetalum is often described as sprawling, scrawny and unruly - until it blooms, that is. As the name suggests, it is a nocturnal (night-blooming) plant, and its highly fragrant, large blooms are spent by morning, adding to the mystique.

A favorite pass-along house plant among gardeners, Epiphyllum oxypetalum plants can be easily divided and shared. Many people fondly describe a childhood memory of being allowed to stay up and witness the unfurling blooms and intoxicating fragrance of their family's Night-blooming Cereus plant. A young plant may take five years or more to bloom, and then will bloom each year with proper care.

» Read more about this plant
Type of plant: Cactus and Succulents

Bloom color: White/Near White

Bloom time of year: Mid Spring, Late Spring/Early Summer, Mid Summer, Late Summer/Early Fall

Sun requirements: Sun to Partial Shade, Light Shade

Cold hardiness: Zone 11

Height: 8-10 ft. (2.4-3 m)

Spacing: 18-24 in. (45-60 cm), 24-36 in. (60-90 cm)

Unsubscribe by logging in to Dave's Garden, click on "My Info", then "Preferences", then "Newsletter"."

Picked some tree peony seeds yesterday. Don't know anything about them but will bring them to the ru.

I am trying to get a spreadsheet together on google with what we HOPE to bring and what we would like and least but not last what we are giving to someone else. Anyone will be able to update it. I think I have the plants done and will do one for the seeds. Going to a cookout this afternoon and have to get plants ready to ship this morning so hopefully will have it open tonight or tomorrow.

Joyce, that sounds like a lot of coordinating.. THX! Will, that is it, night blooming cerus.. a succulent maybe, more than a prickly cactus?? I will pass on yours, as I picked one up with that name at the RU last fall... Joyce? I think Louise gave you one, too... any blooms? Me neither. Will, I would give it another year or so... once you see the bloom, you will want to keep it.. they do start from a "leaf" cutting.. I've had one from my aunt for about 10 years.. it's my bloomer.. they do come in all colors and they can get large and gangly, but then there's plenty to share.
My mom says to leave them outside in the fall as long as possible, so it feels the cool/cold air, it will take temps into the 30's just so it doesn't get frozen...I'll be moving them to my covered front porch, keeps frost off in case I miss a frost warning.... (she thinks it helps them have blooms the following year-subjecting them to cold temps)... then store over winter where it is cooler/darker (I keep them in the garage part of the basement) water sparingly, 2 or 3 times over winter.
Joyce, I got a shell ginger (variegated leaves), I'll look for a start on that one for you.. looks lovely, even still in it's nursery pot! I'm going to rig up a soda bottle rooter for the snow queen hibs, 3-liter mini terrarium-like.. I'm trying them with orchid moss soaked in recipe (like we do brugs) hope to get some roots that way.. I'll make one up for you, too AND take some fresh cuttings the night before the RU... it only takes one to make an eventually BIG plant...
Leaflady, I'll bring a few snips off the hot pink secreatia, it will fit into your mixed basket.. this is a pic of Dutchman's Pipe or Fisherman's Pipe vine bloom.. purty, huh? teehee

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjT9oPc8Ii_QdHc3SDhEQ0tNNnJuQXh0MWtxcklLcWc&hl=en

If you copy and paste this in the address it should take you to the excel document. Anyone can update it so if I messed up....which I am sure I have, plus it is not complete, no seeds have been added yet, feel free to update it with what you HAVE and what you WANT or fix anything that isn't correct.
If your name is not at the top just type it in the next blank column. Then mark HAVE under your name in the correct plant column if you are bringing it or WANT under your name and across from the plant you want.

I just made this up so I would be sure and bring the right stuff and mark it for folks without going thru the entire thread....so if you wanna use it also feel free.

Course HAVE is hopefully we will have it to share, things happen sometimes.

I clicked on the link and it asks if I have an account. Is there a way to bypass that?

Pepper, I see you got in, sorry I was at a master gardener meeting last night. One of our members has some of the coolest ornamental grasses and he took us for a tour of his property (most of us live out in the country), they are just beautiful this time of the year. I have 3 kinds started but have decided they are all in the wrong spot and need to move them. Sorry about babbling on.



This message was edited Sep 10, 2009 7:08 AM

I have 3 white/green striped ornamental grasses. Love them all. I never liked reg. green Pampas grass but I do like the newer 'red' one. I'm still undecided about Japanese Blood Grass.

I have a switchgrass which my dad hates cause it flops all over the place and a red fountain grass which for the last 2 years has been in a container. I just planted it last week so I could have the pot back. lol. I have another switchgrass which I'm gonna plant next to the other one after I move the dogwood so they can hold each other up. LOL

I should of taken my camera because he had some beautiful grasses. He had a giant reed grass that I can't even imagine how tall it is....then his other grasses just had beautiful seed heads. Most were some type of miscanthus grass, he had several different varieties and the biggest stand of japanese red blood grass I have ever seen. OK here we go chatting again on the plant forum........Lol

HG, I don't see chatting. Just sharing info about grasses someone has. I have a GRG from PG but mine never gets as large as theirs.

I've started noticing grasses too, I have the white/green one, but I want more... a lot of them are zone 6-not 5, but doesn't mean I wouldn't try one. Also have been noticing native grasses growing in the wild... they are so pretty this time of year, might just dig some up along side a ditch.

Does anyone want a Boston fern? I have one available..a friend doesn't want to winter it over and I am wintering over 2 Victoria Queen ferns, they don't lose their frond leaves like the Boston.... . I will bring it, if someone wants it. I've wintered them over in dry cleaning bags before, but honestly, I have so much other stuff........ It is in a hanging basket on my front porch and it is lush and pretty.

Ground cover? Anybody want some? It's green, low-growing, tiny blue blooms in spring. It's really good for those shady places nothing else will grow - Mom put some under a big ol cedar tree. I put it under my apple and cherry trees, where it was mud...nothing ever grew there. I can take a pic if someone is interested.

Ferns atleast aspargas will go dormant and sart watering again in spring. I have a friend who does that every year.
The guy who lives up by me with he grasses is zone5a.....he did comment that we had not had normal winter in about 5 years but before that he had lost one but I guess global warming is helping him...LOL

Hopefully this weekend I can get a better list together.

Hi again all,
Thanks AuntB, that sounds like it might be a nice plant someday, that Cereus does need to be pruned!

My Grandmother always liked her white/green grass, she called it zebra grass I believe.
There is so many different kinds of grass.
I looked at the Google doc, good work happ.
Not really a big fan of the big pampas grass. My neighbor had some planted by the street, in the Winter it laid down in the street!
I've seen some photos of the grass look in Winter, it's usually real nice though.
In this photo, the neighbor's Pampas grass is on the right, right next to the street.
Thats a photo from that awful ice storm in 02', I remember it well, there was a lot to clean up.
Will

Oh, Shortleaf, that picture just sends cold chills down my spine!
I have 2 or 3 different kinds of grasses I could bring, if I can dig some up. I have never tried but heard it is not easy.
Well, my best laid plans went arye.....what else is knew. So I didn't get a good list of what I can bring or check our list to see if I got everything or not.

Did get a bunch of hostas planted and my spuria iris. Have you guys ever seen those? I really like them. I would bring some except I had a problem with iris bores in them this year and I sure don't want to spread those around. I stabbed as many as I could find, but I guess as much as I don't like to use chemicals that is all you can do from what I understand.

Saturday was spent at my Moms to switch out her big waterbed for a single waterbed. By the time I got home at 5, I felt like I had been beat to death.....She is 84 and the heat from the waterbed keeps her joints from hurting but dang I hate tearing those things down and putting them back....ugggg. She was just exhausted course I was to. I tried to get her to sit down but she wasn't having any part of that!

Sunday I was like a crazy person planting. Still haven't even started on the daylilies and I have lots of those to get in the ground. Also got some red hot pokers from a great DG'er so excited.....

I have one spuria iris here. It's white and yellow and came from iris hill at PG. I like it. lol

I was out and about today and got some photos of the Pawpaw tree that is or was the state champion.

Something must've been afoot with that because there isn't a plaque on it and its not on the Missouri
champion tree site - http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/294.pdf
The Pawpaw tree that they list now in Howell County sounds like a fair tree. The tree here is looking a bit
sparse up in the crown, I don't know if leaves have fallen off already or the crown is dying which could mean the tree is dying.
It looks like lightning might've hit it and set it back pretty good.
I'll ask my uncle who nominated it, he might know.
Here are a few more photos of the Pawpaw tree. - http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/Missouri_state_champion_Pawpaw_Truman_home_in_bkgd/
Will

edited to include that last link..lol..sorry : )


This message was edited Sep 14, 2009 10:52 PM

Those Spuria iris use to grow in ditches all over this part of the state. With new road improvements and ditch work there are few left in the wild. But I rescued quite a few years ago and have 3 patches of them.

The ground is once again hard as a rock from lack of rain. Anything that requires much digging has to be watered first.

Does the nomination for MO tree happen very often? Is it done for other kinds of trees?

GOD bless and keep each of you.

Hi EvaMae,
a tree can stand as the champion for decades. Unfortunately, things can happen unexpectedly but theres usually a very similar tree just waiting. Oh yeah, many different trees and plants are champions - http://www.mdc.mo.gov/forest/IandE/MOChampionTrees/index.htm. Only native plants are champs far as I know.
I've never nominated a state champion tree, but I've visited several, and at least 2 that come to mind are national champions, the Pumpkin Ash at Big Oak Tree State Park (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/BigOakTreeStateParkSEMissouri/?action=view¤t=natlchamppumpkinash.jpg) and the Bur Oak (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/MOstatechampionBurOaktreeColumbiaMO/) south of Columbia. Actually, I wanted to nominate a Cherrybark Oak tree (its the tree and me together in the photo below) a few years ago, but I waited too long, apparently an even larger Cherrybark Oak has been nominated.
I edited my post above to include my photobucket album of photos that I took today of that Pawpaw.
Will

Trees aren't a subject I am knowledgeable about. I don't know a maple when I see one unless it is in the yarden and I know we grew from a sprout. I think I can pick out the most common elm and sometimes Mulberry trees. That is about it for me.

Its kinda the opposite for me, flowers is my weakness..lol
I'm always an eager ear to learn about anything, which is most things! : )
Even simple things can be a revelation sometimes.
I don't know much about flowers, heck I don't know a terrible lot about anything! lol I would like to know much more about flowers and house-plants than I do. Its a little different with flowers because I don't really have a place to plant anything as it is right now, this house isn't mine. Someday I'd like to have a yard about half filled with shrubs, grasses, flowers, trees and just all kinds of color! I would like a greenhouse too! Oh, but we CAN dream can't we?! Weeding would be a job I would look forward to!! lol
Me too! I'm wore out! : )
Will

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjT9oPc8Ii_QdHc3SDhEQ0tNNnJuQXh0MWtxcklLcWc&hl=en


Just keeping the spreadsheet close so no one has to dig for it.

Repeat:
It may take you a couple of times clicking it to open up the spreadsheet, don't know why, but if you keep getting a sign on screen, just go back and click the link and it will open sooner or later.
If you copy and paste this in the address it should take you to the excel document. Anyone can update it so if I messed up...which I am sure I have, plus it is not complete, no seeds have been added yet, feel free to update it with what you HAVE and what you WANT or fix anything that isn't correct.
If your name is not at the top just type it in the next blank column. Then mark HAVE under your name in the correct plant column if you are bringing it or WANT under your name and across from the plant you want.

I just made this up so I would be sure and bring the right stuff and mark it for folks without going thru the entire thread...so if you wanna use it also feel free.

Course HAVE is hopefully we will have it to share, things happen sometimes.

This message was edited Sep 16, 2009 12:42 PM

Thanks happ, I went to the spreadsheet and added some White Oak acorns that I got at Mount Washington cemetery
yesterday. I looked at the Baldcypress trees, Bur Oak trees and Chinkapin Oak trees to get seed and they are still green, they should be ready in a week or two. Thot I'd attach a photo of the White Oak tree yesterday below.
As I get more seeds before the RoundUp I'll be offering them up in the spreadsheet if anybody wants some. Many of the seeds aren't quite ready to pick yet. These will all be from seed sources that are proven to grow from, I have grown these from seed in the past.

I can't even get into the spread sheet now. lol. Says http not found.

It did that for me too, that last link can't be clicked on I don't think. I went to the other link a little further up in the thread and got to the spreadsheet. Although, that last one will probably work too if it is copied and pasted into a browser bar.

I can't copy and paste since only part of it shows. The first one asked for a password. LOL. Spreadsheets aren't my friend anyways.

I see what you mean, only part of the address shows. Duh..sorry : ) It can't be copied and pasted that way.
The way I got to it was just clicking on the first link, when that bottom one didn't work.
The site here must recognize it the address as a link and shortens it up, kinda making it useless for copying and pasting. Probably the way to fool the forum into not doing that is leaving out the first part http://.
I went to the site and copied the address without the http:// part, be sure to type that before the web address before you hit "go" or "enter".
spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjT9oPc8Ii_QdHc3SDhEQ0tNNnJuQXh0MWtxcklLcWc&hl=en
Will

My fault you all couldn't use the second link. I fixed it I hope. Can't copy from DG had to go back to the spreadsheet.

Wish I understood why sometimes when you click the link you get the signon screen, then if you keep clicking the link it will open the spreadsheet sooner or later. OH well....

If anyone has acorns could you save me 10 or 15? I don't want to plant them my 84 year old Mother has a craft thing that calls for acorns.

I an oak tree but apparently it's one that doesn't produce acorns. Probably a good thing since it's right next to a black walnut tree. lol. Hard enough to mow when we get walnuts which I hope we get this year. Our squirrels need them so they can leave the cat food alone. lol

Sure happ, I'll get those Bur Oak acorns, they are big and frilly, when I looked last they were still green.

Shortleaf thank you, if you happen on to them, no major deal. She has some pattern that makes them look like mice.....every year she makes us something for Chrismas like that. Usually I know cause I take her shopping for the parts.....Last year I went looking for her but I waited until the coldest windest day, man I got cold and couldn't find one. Then went up to the park, for some reason I can't find oak trees up here. There were some huge oak trees in Smithville but they tore all of those up to build a strip mall.

Seems like you lay the acorn on it's side the smooth side is the face and she has little glue on eyes, the pointy part is the nose, the rough part is the back and he stem is the tail. Can't remember but seems like there is some red ribbon some where......

Sounds like a festive gift and very creative too!
I know of several Bur Oak trees around here. Actually, its probably my favorite tree.
Its a big shade tree, would be a legacy tree, (it lives hundreds of years), a guaranteed swing-bench tree. and is just a great wildlife tree that would look nice in a big open area. Its not even a terribly slow grower, maybe medium speed rate of growth, but not slow. Bur Oak acorns get really large in southern climes because of the longer Summer.
Heres a large acorn, but its not an american acorn, its a tropical Oak tree in Mexico and Central America. -
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/?action=view¤t=View27.jpg
Thats not a small hand, that guy is 6'6"!
Heres the Bur Oak tree where I plan to get the acorns from though, the photo is below. Its funny, I took that photo 6 years ago to the day today! lol I would guesstimate that tree to be very old, maybe 250 years or so. I'm lucky its so close, its in Hill Park in Independence, MO.,
2 or 3 miles away. The frilly, hairy cap comes off the acorn easy, just twist/pull the acorn out. I can get many White Oak acorns too, they're smaller (only about an inch in diameter). I'll try to get photos of them and you can pick. White Oak is a large, nice tree too. Its a slow grower, the Fall color is a nice maroon. It is definitely a legacy tree tho, it lives around 600 years. -
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/?action=view¤t=DSC02303.jpg
Will

What a beautiful acorn, huge! Hey I grew up walking all over Hill Park. I remember when you could drive across the creek. In fact we play in that creek looking for crawdads and such. My bestfriend had a house on Ralston. Our paths has crossed many times Shortleaf, many years apart but we sure have crossed paths!

Yes, we have been in some of the same places, small world! : )
I know what your talking about driving over the creek. That part is on the eastern side of the park. I remember as a kid my brother and me would get under the little water-fall where the creek runs over that bridge-type thing where cars drove over. Though I don't ever remember seeing cars go over it, it certainly looks like it was a roadway before that.
It was a favorite place to look for crawdads definitely. We never could catch them!
Hill park does rank up there with my favorite parks.
Wow, Ralston street is close. West Independence actually is not a bad place to live and have kids.
West Indep. is Independence school district now. I lived there as a kid and I was bussed to Kansas City schools. Having my lunch money took out of my pocket never was pleasant, but I think things have changed some now..lol
The houses are super cheap there.
Will

As teenagers we use to go real fast across the creek and spray water all over....couple of times even stopped and washed the car off. Don't know if the crawdads liked that or not.

I went first to Bristol Grade School which use to sit where the post office is now in Englewood. Then we were the first class to go to Nowlin Junior High School and then on to Van Horn. There use to be an old fashioned drug store in Englewood, at the corner of winner road and ralston, my first job where we made cherry limeades, chocolate cokes, and real sodas....I grew up at 19th and Vermont, my sister still lives in that area and another up off of 23rd street toward 291. Even when I came back to KC I bought a house up from Nowlin Jr High School. Exactly for the reason you are saying housing is very reasonable and now Indep, taking on the schools it is a win win situation. Still have lots of friends in that area.

I went to Hill Park today and got about 3 sandwich bags full of Bur Oak acorns.
The photo to them will be in the link below, they are on the hood of my red truck.
I don't know if you like the caps on them, they come right off, if the acorn don't come
out with a little persuasion, the cap can be broke away, it don't harm the acorn.
I can get White Oak acorns too they are about 2/3s the size as Bur Oak acorns, they don't have a cap,
of the acorns I can get only Bur Oak acorns have a big cap. I can also get the dime-sized Pin Oak acorns, here
in the yard. I'll update the spreadsheet in a few days, I'm gonna try to get more seeds this weekend.

I think they tore away that low bridge, concrete roadway that was over the creek at Hill Park. In the photos you can see its gone. Heres that same view today of the big Bur Oak tree. I guess the Beach volleyball wasn't a hit! lol -
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/Hill_Park9_09/

Bristol eh? Bristol was like every West Independence kid's dream grade school, it was like the Buckingham palace
of public grade schools over there! : ) Bristol was like paradise! That divided street leading up to it was
like the yellow brick road! lol I think that building is still there, I always liked that elevated walkway by it.
Bristol is still in Independence, I was bussed to Melcher grade school on Chelsea (off of Van Brunt) in KCMO
for 5th and 6th grade. The years before that I was in the Independence school district and then to Arkansas
for 2 years then back to the same Indep. school district then thats when I went to KC schools for over 4 years
then high school at Fort Osage H.S. I went to Nowlin Jr. High too! I would've went to Van Horn but we moved to East Independence where I went to Fort Osage H.S. I went to several schools as a kid because of moving several times. But Nowlin Jr High and Van Horn H.S. are 2 of the 7 or so schools that are now
in the Independence school district, I felt so good for those kids because it doesn't accomplish anything to bus them to Kansas City besides give them bad experiences and memories.
You and me weren't far apart growing up.
I was a mile or two North in the area between Fairmount and Maywood. My old time drug stores were Fairmount Drug store and B&B Super Drug in Maywood. We used to ride our bikes to that last one sometimes and get a real soda.
It sounds like you were closer to Englewood.
Although, our stomping grounds were pretty similar it sounds like.
It is a small world! I joke about Bristol happ, really, its nice to talk to somebody that grew up over here! : )
Will

shortleaf, you crack me up! rofl......yeah we were pretty classy going to Bristol, yes I grew up closer to Englewood and the move theater. I saw the movie the "Birds" at Englewood Theater and then had to walk home......scary! LOL

Those acorns will make great mice, you will be my Mom's favorite person! I am the middle child so I am use to taking second place....LOL

At one time Kansas City Schools were really good, my senior year I took computers and have been in that field ever since. Things sure change in time.......so sad.

I am bringing at least 1 more and possibly 3 more folks to the ru that live by me.
I also invited a DG member from St. Jo. She is a newbie and gave her the website. Hope they all join us.

Have more plants to bring since I went to my Master Gardener Training.

I have tons of brugs in bloom, beautiful and sweet....LOL

I'm excited about our ru.. that spreadsheet is nice, Joyce. Thank You! I think I updated it okay.. The more plant lovers the merrier, right? (I'm trying to catch up here on DG..) My brugs are beautiful and sweet, too, don't you LOVE it, Joyce?.. it's really my paradise back there.. (got rained out, so I'm inside).. Lot's to do before RU and winter.. I'm loving the discussion and the pics.

Haha! Your Mom's favorite person, I'm not even my own Mom's favorite, so join the club! lol
And I'm her firstborn even! I'd say I easily rank last oddly enuff..lol
The Kansas City school district was good at one time huh? When I was there in late 70s, not so much. I don't have any good memories from those schools. When I look back on it though, some of it was kinda funny I guess, like getting the back of my neck slapped, then they were calling me a redneck, or having my lunchmoney taken by guys that looked like they flunked about 6 grades. And it was supposed to be desegregation, I think they found out it don't work that way! lol
I like Englewood theatre too. The last movie I saw there was Lemony Snickets with Jim Carrey. Ewww.. The Birds.. spooky!
I went seed collecting this afternoon and I got several - Thornless Honeylocust (which they say isn't likely thornless from seed, but I've grown a few from these seeds and not a thorn on them). Its funny, when I pulled up to the Chinkapin Oak tree in Fleming Park (Lake Jacomo) 2 deer and a big turkey were browsing underneath the very tree where I wanted seeds, so I whipped my camera out! - (photo below) I'm curious now, are Chinkapin acorns really sweet or something, maybe the wildlife know! I may have to taste one to see! lol
And Baldcypress seeds aplenty! There was some dogwood trees with seeds right next to the Redbud tree, so I got some Dogwood seeds. The one time I tried these Dogwood seeds one year they didn't come up, but I'm gonna try it again I think. Surely they won't deny me a second time!
Anybody else is welcome to some to try. I'm gonna update my new stash of seeds in the google spreadsheet in a while. In all, what I got today is: Chinkapin Oak acorns, Thornless Honeylocust seeds, Redbud seeds, Dogwood seeds, Pin Oak acorns, Bur Oak acorns, Kentucky Coffetree and White Oak acorns. I have yet to get some, like - Black Eyed Susan, Sycamore, Wisteria, Persimmon, Hedgeapple and White Ash. The photos of seeds and more is here. - http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v243/w4i0a/PlantsforRoundUpFall09/
Yes, the more the merrier!
Will

AuntB, I am going to have to figure out how to trim my brugs so the blooms hang down like that. Mine are harder to see. Got packets of wild flower seeds they handed out at the mg convention that I will bring.

Shortleaf, you are turning into Johnny Treeseed! What a great picture of the turkeys and deer. Watch those turkeys, I know for a fact they can fly and they can fly high in the trees. We have them down by the lake and they roast (during the preview I noticed a freudian slip LOL should be roost) up very high in the trees. Nothing like having one heading for your windshield!

If they haven't rotted in the water I will have a few red hot pokers also. I got them in the trade and have a couple I didn't get planted.



The brug is lemon twist, look how short the blooms are. They don't hang down at all like the Versi.

This message was edited Sep 23, 2009 7:05 AM

Just a reminder: Don't forget door prizes. I knew I forgot something last night. LOL