Japanese irises - why don't you grow them PART 2

But that's for bearded iris, Bonjon. I don't see Japanese iris growing in those conditions.

Thanks Dee! And yes, Neal, I have heard the spurias like to be wet the first year. Dee, do your spurias get the same water and fertilizer as the JIs and the sibs?

you're right, soo sorry Polly. have mostly TBs so my thinking reverts.

my first seven JIs, 2 survived and have finally bloomed. for them, maybe I should have added Permatill. But I added lots of sand, twice the compost and more manure than for TBs. also had put in some "soil conditioner" which is only sold locally from what I can tell. it's very finely ground pine bark mulch. I made my own from a pile of mulch that never got used. we can only till the clay so deep, not deep enough for JIs, so I raked the soil up higher, banking it up. the JIs sit at the back of the TB bed, with a small path between.

the biggest problem we have with the JIs is two that bloomed are nearest the New Dawn climbing rose, which gets a lime-sulfur dormancy spray. I'm thinking their roots may have liked any of the rose fertilizers the rose got? I've always been tempted to use my systemic disease control rose fertilizers on the irises. I do use the same leaf spot sprays. the rose is north of the JIs. south is a bronze foliage canna which expanded a lot and needs division. It sure liked the iris fertilizers.

I'm using 6-24-24 on the JIs. is there something they like more?

What I have done because two well known hybridizers of the PNW told me this is what they do with JI and Sibs...after they go dormant in the fall I trim the foliage almost to the ground, then take the cheapest possible steer manure and pile it on thick about 3-4" high on and around the the plant this feeds them and keeps the weeds down as well...

When I replant or get new Spurias in I dig a nice size hole fill with my new compost (not necessary habit), plant the spuria and water water water until they start the roots then it is all mother nature until I start watering the iris about late April or May...

I think Bonjon, you might be babying the plants too much as I do little to the iris, fertilize twice, spray the paths, till the paths, spray for leaf spot as it is almost impossible to not have that in the PNW some...weed, and use Ronstar as a pre emgerment...

I know you all life in different areas but honest indian bearded iris do not require much care in either CA or OR or WA...

Hope this helps

D

What do you use for leaf spot, Dee?

That is what I heard about the spuria, they like lots of water at first, but the year after planting can grow pretty much on their own.

I use just a regular cheap 10-10-10 as fertilizer for the JIs, and use MiracleGro, alternating with Miracid every two weeks. Upon Dees advice I also have been putting manure heavily on them in the fall. I still haven't piled it up over the crown, I'm a little afraid to do that here. Maybe I'll try it this winter with some vigorous one.

Again, I believe the only thing that killed your JIs, Bonjon is lack of water, whether it be available water due to the soil conditions or shortness of water from your drought conditions. I don't believe anything else would have killed them. Slowed them down, maybe, but not killed them.

Here's something anyone wishing to grow JIs, but having poor water retention might consider. I purchased mini pond tubs from Lowes for about 8.00, and set them in the ground about 4-5 inches down, on top of some small stones. I made holes in the tubs, small enough for the water to slowly pass through, and then I grew my water loving plants around them. I fill the tubs twice weekly, and the plants get plenty of water to the roots.

Polly I use Dacinol and something that is an off shoot of Safer Soap with sticker...about 2-3 weeks apart until I start digging...

Now question for you Polly is there anyway that there could be salt in the water and that affect the JI...because I have one area near the house that will NOT allow Sib or JI...same water but this is an area where the boys are working and wonder if they do something that might effect that one 5' strip?

D

Could the basement walls be leaching lime?

That's what I would wonder too, Pirl. Could that be the case Dee? I know we grow hollyocks really well about 10 feet out from our concrete garage due to the lime.

I have never heard of salt buildup hurting JIs. Over alkaline soil, and lack of water. That's it.

No basement wish I did:) big time...

Well I just wonder what all the boys are doing to that area that the JI and sibs hate, they grow and if lucky one bloom after 3 years, so of course everything else goes there, the clemetis love it!

Thanks both Polly and Pirl

D

Sounds as if lime is the issue if the clematis love it.

Have you had the soil tested?

People in Oregon don't have basements either? I remember when we moved to Fla, my aunt was the only one in the area with a basement. We had a hurricane warning and everyone ran to my Aunts house.

Do you have any concrete, blocks, pads, anything? Clematis do like lime, so again, I'm thinking what Pirl is thinking.

I'm thinking it's time to sleep!

Me too. Travel to Ohio tomorrow.

I'll agree with that. Got to work tomorrow, dang it all.

Polly, some do and some do not, I am the later...wish I had one for the crafts.

Yup have a ton all of concrete all the way around the garage, and it is on the one side...DUH...should have thought, because all that will grow here is lilac, clemetis, bleeding hearts and bulbs...and the oriental lilies LOVE it and get talker than I am...OK Anita be quiet, I know even elementary school kids are taller than I am...LOL

D

All right! On to the next problem, LOL.

I would love to live in your area. We went to Oregon once after a trip to California. I fell in love with Grants Pass. Are you anywhere near there, Dee?

No, not that close as we go by exit numbers and GP is 55 and we are 228...but it only gets better in the Valley:)

We moved from So Ca to here. We lived between Whittier and Buena Park about 15 min from Knotts if there was a second without traffic...

D

Can't imagine anything better. It must be paradise there, then. California did nothing for me. Way too fast paced. But of course, I didn't see all of it, and we have some very nice members from there.

The part of CA I loved was northern CA but I honestly could not afford the prices of 5-10 acres back then...so came further north. Cousins in Albany so that was base and went outward, this was my second or third chose but my husband fell in LOVE as the shop is a MANS SHOP! Bigger than house air compressor all the way around the entire shop except for the small offices, a full paint booth with fans and doors. And he likes to restore model A's.

D

one 5 hour traffic jam south of L.A. cured me of California forever, that and everyone I knew living there had 2 to 4 hour commute to work. In Raleigh, we consider ourselves ill used if we have more than a 30 minute commute, and 30 mins. is pushing it. Most folks live within 20 mins. of work.

only problem with Dee's area as far as I can see is the pollen! Lots of grass growing, lots of grass pollen. Other than that, yes, I'd say she lives in heaven!

Yup if you are prone to allergy this is not the place to live as we in Linn county are the grass seed captial of the USA and finally they are cutting down and getting rid of the hybrid cottonwoods that promised the moon and delievered nothing to the farmers.

D

yewww - allergic to cottonwoods too!

my doc knew I said I was allergic to grass. We have a lot of biotech hereabouts. he asked me to participate in a drug study. They had to establish how allergic we were with blood allergy tests, the most expensive and most accurate type of allergy test. I was off the top of their chart on fescue! and scored enough on all four most common lawn grasses to participate. so I'm not going to be retiring to the Willamette Valley, where they grow the nation's supply of fescue seed!!! as one allergy doc told me about 30 years ago: "don't even think about learning how to run the lawn mower."

so I tear up our lawn and plant irises! it drives my neighbor nuts.

I received 4 Japanese iris last Fall. They are my first ones. Do I need to do anything special now or just hope they bloom? Do you think I will have to wait until next year?

Teresa in KY

I think you will have a 50% chance they will bloom this year. Give them fertilizer. I just do a 10-10-10 or similar. JIs are heavy feeders. Or put some compost or well composted manure around them. Keep them well watered. Do you have them well mulched? The more you do for them the better chance they will bloom this year. You can expect 100% bloom next year if you take good care of them.

Please let us know how they do. I assume they all came up?

They need to be planted shallow, right? I didn't know about adding mulch to deeply on them. I have compost and 10x10x10 available. Which is best?

They need to be planted deep as opposed to shallow, Teresa. They'd love both 10-10-10 and compost.

Hmm I thought they were more like TBs. I hope they made it thru the winter!

Arlene, my daughter is moving to the Boston area in July

Boston is a great town! We love it.

JI's like being down about 2 to 3". Let us know if they survived.

The rhizomes should be about two to three inches below ground in your area. The deeper the better, but not over three inches. The new rhizomes grow on top of the old ones, so that keeps them longer before they need to be divided.

I make a little moat, and put the rhizomes down about three inches in the moat, then fill the moat with mulch. Up to about four inches of mulch is good, or six inches if you're using pine needle mulch.

10-10-10 and compost together will not be too much. Sprinkle a good handfull of fertilizer around the plant, but not on the crown. Pile all the compost you want around them,also.


Here's a copy of the fact sheet I send out with JI purchases.


CULTURE FOR JAPANESE, BOG, WATER AND SPECIES BEARDLESS IRISES

Culture is for the most part the same for any of the water loving irises. Japanese, Pseudacorus, Virginicas, Pseudatas, etc.

All are easy to grow. The most important factor is they must be kept moist the first year planted. After that they will do well with less water, but will thrive with more.

The irises will do well in most garden soils, but for strongest growth additional water is recommended. Especially up until bloom time, and in the late summer, which is when root increase is great. Extra water will increase height of plants and size of bloom. Most of the water irises can be grown in or near a pond, but in areas that freeze they cannot have their rhizomes under water as it will suffocate the plant. If you wish to grow them in a pond, in a cold climate, put them in a pot which you can take up and sink in the ground over winter.

These irises prefer a heavy rich soil, on the acidic side. Manure or peat is a great addition to the soil before planting. Be sure the manure is aged, otherwise it may burn roots. If the PH is too high, you will notice a yellowing of the leaves. This can be corrected by watering with Miracid until the irises are divided, then add agricultural sulfer to the soil. (Be aware, some of the Japanese X Pseudacorus AKA Pseudatas have intrinsic yellow leaves, especially in spring—nothing is wrong with them).

Plant divisions of three to four fans. Never allow the irises to dry out while planting or transplanting. Soak the roots in water before planting for up to 2 days. Plant the rhizome 1-.3 inches deep, and in a depression of 3-4 inches, which will help hold water. Mulch heavily. Oat straw is an excellent mulch, as is pine needles. Pine bark is good as well. These irises grow their new rhizomes on top of the old rhizomes so putting them in deeper allows them to stay in the depression longer before needing to be divided.

Divide plants in the early spring, or late summer to early fall, being sure it will be cool, and you can give them enough water for a month after dividing. Plant divisions 18-24 inches apart. New information suggest not planting irises back into the same place, however we have had no trouble doing this. Amend the soil well at time of division. Plants grown well will need to be divided every 3-4 years. If the center of the plant is dying out, that tells you division is needed..

Japanese and other water irises are heavy feeders. A balanced fertilizer such as 10-10-10 in the spring and right before blooming works well. A watering every two weeks of Miracle Gro, alternating with Miracid is great. It is hard to overfeed or overwater the water irises.

Most water irises have little or no pest problems. Thrips or iris borers can be controlled with a systemic insecticide.

Sorry, Pirl we cross posted. At least we agree, as we normally do, LOL.

And here's my instructions for planting new JIs:

· HOW TO PREPARE FOR YOUR NEW IRISES

· Cultivation for most of the beardless irises is essentially the same. All siberians, Japanese, species and species X will grow well in average garden soil. The first year they do need some special attention. But be assured they are easy to grow. If you grow daylilies you can grow these irises.

· Before you get the irises it is best to prepare the area where they are going to be planted. All are pretty heavy feeders, and the soil should be amended as soon as you know the irises are coming. A few shovelfuls of peat in the planting hole, mixed in well, is always a good addition. If your soil tends to be a little on the sweet side, the peat will help that. Compost mixed in well, is excellent also. Composted manure is fine if it’s heavily composted, like you buy in a bag, or that you’ve had sitting around for a year. Do not use fresh manure as it will burn the roots. It’s best to amend the soil with the peat, compost or composted manure down about a foot, and a foot or more wide. If you wish to add some fertilizer, add it a couple of inches below the planting hole, and cover it well with soil, so that the roots may grow down into it, but are not sitting in the fertilizer when newly planted. This is similar to the way most bulbs are planted.

· When you get the irises, take the plastic off, and place them in a pail of water, with the water covering the roots, up to about an inch on the leaves. Put the pail of water in a shady spot. Siberians can sit for up to two days in water, the rest of the irises for three or four days. You can leave the paper towelling on them while they soak, but remove it before planting. Some irises will have water crystals in the roots. The crystals can be planted with the iris. The irises will have plastic labels around the fans. Remove those before planting. Some people plant them in the planting hole along with, but not on the iris, just as an extra precaution to a lost tag. Be sure to label them well above ground, also. We recommend metal tags, such as Paw Paw, with tape from a P Touch machine for lasting tags.

· Dig the planting hole deep enough so the roots of the irises have room to spread out. Before putting the iris in, run water into the planting hole a few times soaking it well.


· When planting the irises, plant the crown of the plant (where the roots and leaves join), about 1-2 inches under the ground, for siberians and about 2- 3 inches for the Japanese, species, and species X. If you are in a very cold area, go slightly deeper. Japanese and many of the species like to be planted the 3 inches deep, as their new roots grow on top of the old ones. That way they will last longer in the original hole before needing to be divided.

· After planting the irises, tamp the dirt down securely, so no air pockets are there. Then make a ‘moat’ around the irises, (a depression in the soil where water will stay for awhile). Water thoroughly until the soil stays moist.

· Mulch heavily, three to four inches of mulch is excellent. Pine needles, or pine straw is great, pine bark is fine. Cypress or hardwood mulch is good also. Do not use anything with lime in it as a mulch, such as wood ash, or anything that will blow away, such as peat.

· Water the irises twice a week for the first year, or even more often if it’s very dry, up to ground freeze in the late fall. Water enough so that the soil is saturated.

· Do not use any fertilizer until you see new growth, then a liquid such as Miracle Gro, or Miracid can be used at a rate of no greater than every two weeks. Do not use any granulated fertilizer the first year. If the leaves appear to be yellowing, give them some Miracid every two weeks, then in the spring put some acid loving plant fertilizer on them. Please note some of the pseudatas have inherent yellowish green leaves in spring, and this is nothing to be concerned about.



This message was edited Mar 28, 2009 10:00 AM

oh Lord, just what I need another addiction! lol
I may have to try these in the back. They are gorgeous!
It is mostly part shade but a little bit of mid day sun. Maybe an hour or so.
The day lilies I planted not long ago are growing well so far.

Great advice both of you....

Printing it for me:)

Thank you

D

You will not be sorry on getting many of the beardless iris. They are lovely and make an excellent cut flower as well.

D

I would give them an area with a little more sun, 2racingboys. 1/2 day minimum. There are some nice irises that grow in more shade though, like iris tectorum and iris cristata, both of which should like your area.

You're welcome Dee.

polly Next year I may have to order a couple of JI. I'm just afraid they won't grow here. They are beautiful!! I looked at your site a few days ago.

Thanks Nicky. If you tell me a little about your gardening conditions I can tell you if they may or may not do well. The main thing is if you can keep them watered the first year. Everything else is usually fixable. Are you able to grow siberian irises do you know?

Ok, well anything to add color to this area would be great.
maybe I can put some of those out front. I get more than 1/2 day full sun there.

polly, Bought 3 sib, 2 years ago. One bloomed last year. I bought 8 from Ensata last year , lost 2. Will see what bloom season brings. I think I had a JI about 17 years ago , did well for a couple of years and perished. At the time, I didn't know they took more water. Probably grower error!! LOL I thought someone at OKC told me we couldn't grow them here, because of the heat.

Out front would be better for them, 2racingboys. But do check into the other irises, they are very pretty for the shade. Joe Pye Weeds Garden has some pretty ones.

http://www.jpwflowers.com/introcrested.html

Nicky, you're not too hot for them. You could put them in a little shade, maybe 1/2 day sun or morning sun. They grow to Z9. People in California grow them successfully. JIs can take as much, if not more, heat than the sibs. Since you're successfully growing sibs, you can grow JIs. You would need to mulch them heavily, and give them water. The water is the most important. Are you considered Z6 or 7?

I have a few wet spots in my yard, when it rains it tends to collect but then will drain in a few hours. I haven't ever planted anything there, would it be to wet for JI?