i thought aracuanas origintaed in Argentina?
hey, dont' forget my chocolate, send by overnight air post.
sutff the eggs in your brazere silly!
i have an EE pullet i will glady donate to the legbar cause.... i'll birng her to MO...
Chat-a-Doodle doo #5
Well maybe YOU could hide them in your bra--but they'd immediately drag me in for a mammogram.
Still, look what I found! Moxon! Moxon! Can we scoop them and patent it?
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118773997/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Well suze i learned my genetics from breeders not books and i will check into it i may have been wrong i will get back on that one have to call a few folks.
As far as the cream i was thinking of an americana roo breed to a barred rock hen see what comes out of that then { maybe }cross with a leg horn. I have a friend who breeds americana's and he has roos with that exact color pattern would have to consult my panel of breeders to see if i'm correct.
Dang it.....Catscan, that link isn't working for me! How can I patent when I don't know what I'm patenting!? LOL!! I will have to check it tomorrow at work. It's giving me some kind of weird cookie error, but my browser accepts cookies, so who knows?
But, if it's already published, it's probably already patent-applied-for. Oh, and incidentally, you do have to be the inventor on the patent. You can't apply for a patent on something someone else discovered. Small hitch in the plan...
That's one way to hatch 'em TF.
Do any of you pros think araucana or ameraucana would be reliable enough to try? I didn't think we could get like stock of different bloodlines...and I wanted to be able to trade and repeat the process, keep 'em going without inbreeding etc.
This whole breeding experiment sounds like loads of fun to me, especially with egg exchanges. We could develop a whole new line! And, grownut sent me the most awesome link for a chicken genetics resource. For those of you with nerdy tendencies, check this out!! (all credit goes to grownut!)
http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?t=7961710&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Suze Yep got it wrong "sorry" I was right about the rest cause i actually breed those. My friend wasn't availible so i looked up blue and found it's black+splash you get blue, black and splash.
Hey i read on this site you can breed a Blue Andalusian roo to a americana hen and you get a blue bird that lays blue eggs. WOW wouldn't that be cool and yes suze it was a profesional breeder so it can be done.
I'm done this has become way to complicated for me and i will retire to my simple chicken ways and leave this to the profesionals. GOOD LUCK LADYS
OK, guys, what is with these links not working??? Cat and Moxon???
Claire's came up for me. Try again?
nope. no-go.
claires worked for me... but I also got a cookie error on the other link.
I'm all cross eyed now....reading about blue eggs, blue legs and tangerine elephants! LOL!
Well this is what it said:
B-F DNA sequence variability in Brazilian (blue-egg Caipira) chickens
C. A. V. Lima-Rosa*, C. W. Canal † , A. F. Streck † , L. B. Freitas*, A. Delgado-Cañedo*, S. L. Bonatto ‡ and F. M. Salzano*
*Departamento de Genética, Instituto de Biociências, Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul, Caixa Postal 15053, 91501-970 Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil. † Centro de Diagnóstico e Pesquisa em Patologia Aviária, Faculdade de Veterinária, Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul, Av. Bento Gonçalves 8824, 91540-000 Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil. ‡ Centro de Biologia Gênomica e Molecular, Faculdade de Biociências, Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Rio Grande do Sul, Av. Ipiranga 6681, 90610-001 Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil
Correspondence to F. M. Salzano, Departamento de Genética, UFRGS, Caixa Postal 15053, 91501-970 Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil. E-mail: francisco.salzano@ufrgs.br
Copyright 2004 International Society for Animal Genetics
KEYWORDS
avian genetics • B-F genes • Brazilian chickens • DNA variability • major histocompatibility complex
Summary
A total of 100 chickens from the Brazilian (blue-egg Caipira) native breed were studied in relation to exon 2 of the B-F genes of the major histocompatibility complex (MHC) region. After a first screening on 100 birds, 22 animals were selected for amplification, cloning and sequencing experiments of exons 2–4 (a total of 1048 bp) of their DNA. Twenty-three sequences were obtained, of which at least 10 appear novel. Inferred protein sequences were compared with those previously described, totalling 41 different sequences with amino acid changes in 33 of the 88 sites in α1, and 34 of the 91 sites in α2 domains. Allele expression was investigated in these animals through cloning experiments. The blue-egg Caipira chickens may provide a source of novel B-F alleles for genetic improvement programmes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accepted for publication 28 April 2004
DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1111/j.1365-2052.2004.01160.x About DOI
this thread has doubled since my last post
What?????? I feel like i'm in the presence of genus i apparently have flunked out in the breeder department for i don't know bf,or any of those quotes i feel dumb i guess i don't know as much as i thought i did. Just raisen chickens here for all you as cofused as iam just to let you know your not alone i got your back!!!
so.. basics.. what do you get with a black roo & white hens?
From the sites i was on last night you would get black,White and possibly gray all would have the black/white genetic makeup. {hello i just answered this question no gene bashing please}
Oh my gosh I have been gone 2 days and the chicken thread has turned to tangerine elephants. I need to find a new group with less craziness, LOL
I love the roo pic also, but am an idiot in the breeding. Any good link on understanding what you all are talking baout as far as genes are concerned.
Im with Frans need to start with the black roo and white hen?
Sheila
SHEILA. HARMONY.
I know as much about this as you do. I was planning on Claire and Cats (low, low trick) doing the gene bashing and our participating in the research by raising birds and analyzing what we get, then swapping, and raising more birds. We need to stockpile blue egg trait and sex-link trait into a bird that comes in only a few color variations and lays well so all our babies have it in 'em one way 'rother. Somebody somewhere has done the research. If they understand it well enough to help us figure out where to start (the blue stuff now, mind) we can get to buying chickens and breeding them. That Gobbledy-gook up there is evidence that Commander Moxon has figured something out about what blue eggedness is going to do when we cross it. I had hoped, like Harmony, to get an ameraucana, but they are apparently a real hodge podge and we won't have any idea what kind of birds (colors etc) they came from.
I am enjoying reading all this... I think it's interesting.. brainstorming is the best for new ideas... I think if ya all keep it up, you'll start to narrow it down with everyone's involvement.. Too bad I'm too new to contribute much!
I've got a good 40 days on you, at least here. Way superior. You're a subscriber. Way superior. lol Actually I was counting my willingness to be methodical and participate as enough...
Oh Grownut. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. GO SUBSCRIBE!! Geesh...
I might not share all the genetic secrets with you otherwise.... LOL!
Have I mentioned I'm a procrastinator...I have been meaning to, just got caught up in other stuff. I don't do business via computer so it means plugging in the printer etc. ( I know, not any excuse, but I am working on it...)
being ashamed of myself isn't always enough to get me going. I DO know how to do it which shows my dedication...believe it or not.
This message was edited Sep 9, 2008 9:08 AM
yeah, yeah yeah.... we understand and luv yas anyways
I'm going to Subscribe Yes I'am this is the best place i have been too in years. I want to go to at least 10 other forums and i can't do that without subscribing. So look out ladys i'm signing up and I'm Bringing the tangerine elephant with me. {grownut you can do it by mail} *Harmony* Over And Out
C"Mon "ELIE" LETS GO EAT SOME LUNCH HOW BOUT SOME NICE HAY *BY*BYE*
All I have to do is print out the form, fill it out, and mail it...
Maybe you should take the tangerine elephant to Jacob's Cave and I really will go...sigh. I'd love to see that in person too.
Wish me luck, guys an' gals, I'm being conscientious and taking two of my goats to be processed. Just got a kiss from one who is going. (I'm gonna harden my haaaart...I'm gonna swallow my teeears...) If I didn't truly believe this was right, best, AND necessary...
No bashing intended--I just really enjoy the genetics. It's like a puzzle.
Black--yes. White--yes. Grey--no.
In a white chicken, all genetic colour and patterns are turned OFF, so you really don't have any sort of clue what colours or patterns are genetically present in the bird. You can think of white being like an On/Off switch; it is not a dimmer switch that lightens up the other colours present.
Dilution genes: blue, dun, cream, champagne blonde, dilute, lavender, etc. can be viewed as a dimmer switch that decreases the intensity of the black and/or red pigment. Some dilution genes work on only one of the two pigments, others work on both. There are also enhancer genes that increase the intensity of the pigmentation.
There are two different white genes. One is recessive, and it requires a copy from each parent to be "activated." If only one copy is present, there will be nothing in the bird's appearance to indicate its presence.
Ignoring recessive genes that may come into play if supplied by both parents and also genes supplied by the white that will interact with a solid coloured black bird, black crossed to recessive white will produce black birds. If the black carries a single copy of recessive white, some of the offspring will be white.
The other white gene is dominant. A single copy from either parent will "activate" the switch: the bird will be white. This gene, however is leaky, and some colours may show through--thus you can get patterns such as red pyle.
If the white bird carries 2 copies of dominant white, all the offspring should be white. If it carries only one copy, there should be black and white offspring in equal numbers.
Suze
By the way, did I understand that you are trying to breed a BANTAM tangerine elephant? How small will it be? As long as it didn't want roost space, I could probably find or build coop space for one :) Or it could hide in the orange tree.
Suze
Hey suze i bet you could tell me how to breed porcelain i know it envolves mille fleur and i have those I just don't know what combination to use to get it and i do know about breeding back.
if you know please tell me i been wanting to know this for 3 years. I will be breeding old english game bantams and i have access to all the breeds.
Well Catscan (and I know you're gone for 6 days, but I'll forget all this by then):
The abstract that you posted was interesting so I looked up some additional info. The blue-egg Caipira chickens they were using seem to be just blue-egg by convenience of obtaining the birds for that research lab. The B-F genes come from the major histocompatibility complex region which is a region that helps regulate immunity (in people as well as birds!). The research identified some new variants of the B-F genes in those chickens, which could help with improving genetic resistance to Marek's disease, which apparently is also correlated with Rfp-Y genes, which are also MCH region genes. There is evidence that the B system genes and the Rfp-Y system genes may show additive effects in resistance to Marek's. So the research they didn't wasn't color related or egg color related, but disease resistance related.
Bummer. Although I'm glad they are working on resistance to Marek's.
Claire
Here is a link to an interesting patent that I used to help learn about some of this.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6242182.html
hey Suze.. now that was easy and very understandable! want to give us a comprehensive genetic lesson..
I love the on/off switch.. that I can understand!
Wait until you hear my toy sorting box analogy ;)
Porcelain is mille fleur plus lavender and dilute. Lavender is recessive, so you need two copies--one from each parent, meaning it will take 2 generations to introduce it. Lavender dilutes both pigments; dilute dilutes only the red pigment. (I think, I'll check that later.)
The austrailian site I gave an earlier link to (http:/ /home .ezweb .com .au/~kazballea/belgians/) has TONS of information on breeding the different "tri-colours" as he calls them.
Suze
Suze so if i cross my mille fleur with a self blue or would a blue splash do better will i take the son who looks closest to what i want and breed it back to his mother??? or father back to daughter or brother/sister or Breed the desireble color young back to self blue/splash.
Ive done similar breeding like this and it works in rabbits too.
Took my Tangerine Elephant shopping today got thrown out of walgreens but petco let us in till Ellie sat on one of the dog glo's *Harmony*
grownut my sympathies on your goats. You're right it is necessary to do these things at times.
Love all the genetics talk! Hope you guys actually develop a program. Can't wait to see what you get!
Suze how will you be able to tell the white recessives from the white dominants?
MollyD
SUZE, if you ahd the time, i wish you would do a Color Genetics 101 thread...
a bantam tangerine elephant in an orange tree??? i don't think elephants are allowed in public stores unless they are assisting a handicapped person. maybe someone who can't smell?
hang in there grownut... hugs...
Thanks Molly, I'm kinda in shock actually. I was OK until the point of no return...
Can anyone tell me what is at work making colors on black? That is what got me interested in the first place, black sex-link X Jersey Giant = champagne on black and copper on black for the males (green in the tailfeathers) and black on black for the female. The generation that produced these X black sex-link or PBR is still mostly black for the females, with white lacing on one and white streaks on others (or maybe dun); the roos are showing violet, green, and mahogany on their black feathers, except for the dun? splash on black he has the standard green in his tailfeathers.
Fascinating stuff. Keep hoping I can keep these ladies talking long enough to pick up a LITtle knowhow.
You too TF, cross-posted...
This message was edited Sep 9, 2008 2:44 PM
grownut I don't know how I'll handle it when the time comes. I already warned Paul that next year at least one goat will have to be processed.
MollyD
Andalusian blue won't work--you need lavender. Splash is a form of andalusian blue; self-blue is synonymous with lavender.
So, breed your self-blue with a mille fleur. You also need to breed a buff (for dilute) with the self-blue. Using different sets of parents will give you a wider gene pool to work with. For the 2nd generation breed the offspring of these two breeding groups together. And you should get some porcelains.
As an alternative to using buff in the first generation of crossings, breed the mille fleur resulting from the first crossing and you may get some porcelains. Just be aware that not all the milles will have the necessary dilute gene
Suze
Hmmmmmmmmm i have a friend who had some mille fleur that would throw porcelain an i had allways wondered about that and how it came to be. I currently have some of his stock of mille fleur, blue mille fleur and what he calls a mille fleur sport. The pictures are on one of the threads i can't remember right now which one.Hold on and i'll show you what i have>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mille Fleur
