Doronicum Magnificum : Leopardbane Have you grown this?

Have any of you tried growing this? See http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/b/bp/DOMAS.html. I am on the look-out for deep shade plants, and this fits the bill -- but I have also read that it likes cool conditions (which are not found in my DC-suburb yard) and sand soil (hmm, I have a lot of clay). I also wonder whether it is long-lived.

Tried it ? Never even Heard of it.

I've been going through various nurseries' search engines looking for deep shade plants, and this popped up. It looks pretty . . . .

It is really pretty....

Not a clue, but do you want some extra seeds or seedlings of Polka Dot plants? I'm sowing them today for my mom's railing planters. They're annuals (or tender perennials... I think people have them as houseplants)...

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/752/

Happy, I have three of them growing in not ideal conditions (shade but fairly dry shade) and they are so pretty, both the foliage and the flowers, and they rebloomed for me last year. Those bright yellow flowers sure do brighten up a dark spot. It's not quite a golden yellow but more of a bright, true yellow.

Although I had read they would go dormant in the hot weather, they did not. They haven't spread yet but last year was their first year. I've been told they are long lived but I can't tell you from my experience yet.

Hart: You are wonderful -- what great news -- thanks so much! Did you grow yours from seed, or spring for them?

Jill: Thank you SO much, I'd love a few seeds (if they are easy to germinate). I have a few empty spots on my new shady planting area that are between perennials that won't be so big this year.

OK! You may need to remind me... With a little luck, I may also have extra seedlings. I sowed a couple dozen seeds (which is probably twice what I need), but I don't remember how long they took to start last year on the heat mat, so I'm not sure that they'll be ready to up-pot before the 23rd.

Even as seedlings, they're really cute...

They are so sweet! How are you feeling? Any chance you can join us for drinks tomorrow? I know you hadn't wanted to commit because you were still getting your strength back. So now inquiring minds want to know: Is it back?

I have grown it, but not in your area. Not really a deep shade plant, but it does need afternoon shade or will look dead every day. Pretty much fades out in the summer here and makes a comeback in the fall. Great early season yellow.

Happy, I got plants from Bluestone's sale last year. Three for around $5 at the sale price I think. I'll be glad to save you some seeds this year if you'd like to try them from seed.

I certainly think you'd like them a lot.

That's odd, Al, that they would fade out in summer in your area and not here, where I'm sure it's a lot hotter and more humid in summer. Mine are in a very shady spot, though. Maybe that helped. They certainly aren't getting consistently moist soil there and Bluestone said they like a moist spot.

Sorry, no drinks for me tomorrow... instead, it's back to the clinic for another chest x-ray! I went to the doc today because although much better I was still awfully exhausted this week, and last night I started this weird wheezing thing. So now I'm on a steroid inhaler. I'm so annoyed because I just don't feel sick anymore, it's just that I can't seem to get my lungs to behave! Ah, well. I'll get there! Hoist one in my honor, wouldja? :-)

This (the Leopardbane) does look like a plant that might do well for either of my parents... Happy, if you order from Bluestone during their sale or decide to try growing from seed, please let me know, I think I might like to get in on a little of that action! :-)

Happy, I have Leopard's bane!! Three plants!! They are the ones that tell me it is "SPRING"!! They usually hold out while the weather is cool, and can get really pitiful when it gets hot and humid.

Sorry, I don't have a picture of them yet. I will get one.....

Foxy, do they ever self-sow for you? (That would tell us if seed could be successfully winter sown.)

No, they don't self-sow. And they don't like to be moved!! It really messes them up. Propagation is by root division, and you need to do it in late summer or early fall when it's cololer as they take a while to recover and you can more likely get a good flower show on time in early Spring.

Hmm. J L Hudson has the seeds and seems to think they germinate well, so I'm going to give them a whirl nonetheless. C, I'll save you some plants and some seed for certain. (Now I just have to remember to order them, which means figuring out if there was anything else I wanted from Hudson.) Anyone else want some seed? I'm sure there will be more than I can use. http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/

Ooh. A link. For seeds. She posted a link for seeds. See the pretty, dancing flame...

Heh heh heh.

LOLOL Boy, can we all relate. Happy, T's Flowers has the seeds for just $1 a pack. She has some other interesting seeds and plants too and a good watchdog rating.

http://www.tsflowers.com/seeds/doronicum.html

If you want lower growing ones, you might want to get the ones from Bluestone, which are a short variety.

Hardy Plants has several different kinds, all pretty cheap.

http://www.hardyplants.com/seeds/flower/Doronicum.html

There are seeds for a short variety in Fothergill's UK catalog. When I tried to find the Fothergill's USA site, I was shunted to a new site where I couldn't find any flower seeds. It's listed as doronicum orientale, which they do have at Hardy Plants. The variety at Bluestone is also listed in Plant Files as orientale.

I got my Leopard's Banes from Bluestone 3 years ago. They have done very well, except when I tried to divide them in Spring or move them to another area when the weather was warm. But they have always bounced back. They benefit from some sun and I would say they are part-shade plants. They like moist, well-drained soil and protection from hot summer afternoon sun. They'll flower through summer if you deadhead and give them the shade, but they really burst out big-time in Spring and Fall. They have a neat mounding habit, good for the front of the border. Mine are only 18-20 inches in height and I grow them in front of a cold gray rock wall, a lovely contrast..

Hart: Thanks for the reminder about height. I read somewhere that they may need to be staked if not in full sun (and as I say so often that it is becoming my mantra, I have no sun), so I'm sure I'd do better with short. I haven't looked at either tsflowers or hardyplants before. Yet another temptation to succomb to.

Foxnfirefly: I am really glad to hear yours have made it 3 years -- I worried they were short lived. I want long lived plants for my yard. None of this disposable plant stuff for me. No annuals. I am looking for permanency!!!

Happy, the ones I got from Bluestone are only about 8-10 inches tall. That's including the bloom - the foliage is shorter. The flowers are on stems that rise above the foliage. Bluestone has a couple of varieties. Their site isn't very helpful on heights because they only list ranges, not actual expected height but I know the one I bought was listed as being a compact form.

Do you remember if you got the Leo one? I'm leaning that way!

It must be. It's the only compact one on their site. Like I said, don't go by the height shown on the page. I've found with other plants there that the listing on the page is just within a range and not the actual height for that plant.

Happy, if you can wait for their sale, you can get six of those for the price of three, or three for half price. They'll probably have some coupons available sometime soon too for 20% off if you don't want to wait that long.

This is a good picture that should give you an idea of the size. Mine were wider than this after growing for a bit and the flowers open up more. More like the second photo.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/17409/

http://plants.chebucto.biz/fleurs/F0540A.JPG

Well, well, well, look what I found - Little Leo seeds.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DORONICUM-LEOPARDS-BANE-CAUCASICUM-LITTLE-LEO-SEEDS_W0QQitemZ290013814085QQcmdZViewItem

And some very complete germination instructions.
http://www.onhort.com/Doronicum-orientale-Little-Leo-article7296

more seeds in large amounts though

http://growers.harrisseeds.com/cart/detail.asp?subcat=378&product_id=08362%2D10%2D02

http://www.ivygarth.com/images/Perennials.htm This is a wholesale seed place but I think they sell to anyone.

Hart, your research abilities amaze me. :-)

I agree -- Hart is amazing!

Now inspired, I some cultivation information: http://www.gpnmag.com/%20Doronicum-orientale-Little-Leo-article7296 http://www.big-begonia.com/index.cfm/addin/plants/search/1/gattung/Doronicum/art/orientale/sname/'Little%20Leo'/startid/0.html

I am beginning to think Little Leo isn't as shade-tolerant as some of the other varieties of Doronicum -- but I'll have to try!!!

This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 10:11 AM

Awwww shucks! LOL

Hmm, that is an interesting site (GPN), Hart. You must be a ruthless surfer!!

I think everyone here was wondering if they readily self-sow, else you don't need to collect seed and try to germinate under controlled conditions, as this suggests. My plants don't self-sow, and I don't collect seed because heir clumps grow and spread (like Bleeding Hearts) and can be divided. That's much easier than seed-germinating.

Happy--I have a reference on this plant and it indicates that seed needs to be started in the fall and if in the Spring, you need to "stratify" them first. This means that you give them a cold shot--put them with seed-germinating medium in a plastic bag and twist-tie it closed, and place it in the refrigerator for 4-6 weeks before moving them out in the Spring. They like it cool and moist to thrive. Your clumps will live a long time if you divide them and continually dead-head them. Keep them watered well throughout the growing season. I wish you the best of luck!!

I just went out to look at mine--wow, they are coming back big-time!! In a couple of weeks or so, I think they'll be crowned with yellow daisies!! They are also called "spring daisies." They do for Spring what yellow mums do for autumn!!

Foxnfirefly: That's useful -- that makes it sound as if they are a prime candidate for winter sowing!

I just checked several seed germination databases and none say anything about stratifying or fall sowing. Tom Clothier does suggest scarifying, so perhaps you misread.

And I checked on whether it needs light to germinate since the site I posted above says to surface sow. Light does help germination so make sure if you cover the seeds you only do so sparingly.

Hart & Happy--I am so sorry!! I did mix up the plants--I checked my book last night on several types of plants and my head was not clear on the recall. I just went back and looked. The sowing outdoors in Fall or stratify seed in Spring was meant for Foxtail lilies---the ref. on Leopard's Bane says start indoors in Fall or Spring. So, this confirms what I knew--that they don't readily self-sow. And you will need to start them indoors. If you buy them form a nursery, just follow the nuusery's guide to germination. That's your best bet. My apologies for the mix-up. That drink last night went a long way!! Whew!! It was as big as Harvey Wall-banger!!

I grew Doronicum for years because I wanted an early Perennial. It looked great the first few years but died back in the heat of Summer and never came back after 2-3 years. So if you like the flowers ( which look like a large bright dandelion) and want early bright color in the early Spring, then this is a good plant for you. just resign yourself to replaceing it every 2-3 years

Thanks! I prefer plants that live forever (hostas, daylilies) but plan to make an exception!

Maybe this variety is more heat tolerant because that's two of you who live in colder areas than here who said it dies back in the heat. We get lots of 90-100+ days with very high humidity all July and August and mine have never died back. They stopped blooming for a while but the foliage was fine.

Mine does get a lot of shade too. Maybe that makes the difference.

Mine would get plenty of shade!

I found it to be short-lived, but it is the first to flower in the spring. Perhaps this balances out, depending on how sick you are of winter! It is 1 degree here and I am definitely ready for spring!

I love first-to-flower plants! The other thing I want are plants that flower in the drab period before the daylilies blooom -- early June is a little dull in my yard.

Happy, I'm going to be dividing this stuff in the spring. It blooms early, blooms for several weeks and will live for years and years. Mine has been there for over 10 years. It's also the prettiest blue you've ever seen.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/87757/

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/87705/ (This is by far the best photo in plant files for accurate color.)

It doesn't get very tall, maybe 10 inches to a foot max. I have some in full sun and some in shade and they are all doing well. You do need to shear it after it blooms because otherwise it will flop. So far that has never forced a second bloom, so I think it just doesn't rebloom. It makes nice clumps but doesn't spread too aggressively here. It's very drought tolerant and probably wouldn't do well in a moist spot.

It looks very pretty with the doronicum - they bloom at about the same time.

Thanks for the suggestion, Hart! I had convinced myself that I couldn't grow veronicas, but I don't recall how I came to that conclusion. But I will certainly track this one down. Can it be grown from seed, do you know?

I'll be glad to give you some plants when I divide it. For goodness sakes, don't go out and buy it.

This in my garden has been a lot tougher than the other veronicas.