Weeping Norway Spruce with WHITE or CREAM new growth????

Just came from a "big box" type store where I saw 2 of these trees, both marked Picea Abies Pendula (Weeping Norway Spruce)...but they were VERY startling - all the new growth on each tree (they were about 5' tall) was a very soft white/cream color. it looked like it was lit with candles. I can't find anything like this tree on the web - is there maybe something wrong with those to make them appear that way? All the new growth that i see on the other Weeping NS there is the regular light green. Wondering i maybe these are mismarked...they do have a weeping habit, and look just like the Weeping Norway Spruce.

Wondering if anyone might know about this sort of thing. I think they look very interesting - but they are each 99.00, and if they are both sick, then of course I don't want them....thought I'd do some research before purchasing them.

Thanks in advance!

Kara

I think I hear Dax starting his car, and making a beeline for Plymouth.

I'm a little closer to Dax than VV, and could hear more clearly. His wheels screeched as he left his driveway. Should be there in about 20 minutes.

Never heard of a weeping form like that. But of course there is Picea abies 'Argenteospica', a species form with new grow as described.

Rick

Hmmm. Not sure who you are referring to as I'm new 'round here - but I'm taking that as a good sign?!!

Infact, I think there are 2 waiting for me in the side yard as my husband and daughter went out this morning to "do mother's day errand" and when he returned home I discovered him vacuuming out the minivan cause it had lots of dirt in the back!! This is of course after me going ON and ON and ON and ON about these trees that I saw, and how I can't find anything like 'em, and BOY are they cool, basically freaking out.

It's killing me - I have to wait til tomorrow to find out, but will take a pic of the trees if I'm right.

It does sound like Argenteospica, but has a distinct weeping habit and looks JUST like the weeping norway spruce....

Very mysterious!

Kara

While I can't hold a "candle" to the really rabid coniferophiles on this forum (for an example, Dax goes by conifers, and here's one of his posts from a while back: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/579914/), but you may be a witness to an 'Argenteospica' that was grown from a cutting/graft from a side branch of the parent plant.

This effect is called topophysis (I think), where the rooted cutting or graft grows similarly to the area of the parent plant it was collected from. Thus, scion wood from an apical part of a plant will continue to grow vertically, while scion wood from side branches will continue to grow horizontally (or weep down when staked vertically or top-grafted on a high stem).

Or maybe you just found some orphan freak plant. Please post your pics as soon as possible (Hurry! It's just Mother's Day, after all), so we can all weigh in with even more hairbrained answers. At least that's my 2¢ (0.0155196 € for Resin).

You have NO idea how hard it is to not take a peek in the side yard!!! After spending even more time searching on Google - I'm thinking that this is either a form of Picea Orientalis Aurea or Argenteospica or Aureaopsicata except it's weeping.

Are there different types of Weeping Norway Spruce? You can see I'm really a novice regarding evergreens.....pretty obsessed, but a novice...

Kara

Oh - by the way - my husband said he *happened* to see those trees at the store - and that infact there were THREE!!!

The VW Van got cookin' - I think I hit 45 miles an hour somewhere along the journey. Interestingly so, I arrived home to find an Acer palmatum 'Omurayama' at my door. 10 gallon. I couldn't afford the gas and my stove ran out of propane somewhere in Indiana and I was left alone with 40 loaves of bread and 30 packages of Kraft American Singles. I figured if I could only get there, I could sell enough bracelets and incense after I ran out of money from the grilled cheese sandwiches in exhange for a couple of those beauties. Once again, all I ended up with was a ticket for a valid license plate and sticker, but for driving the correct vehicle. Same old story, just another day in the life of a VW Van Pimp!

There is a cultivar that is a sport of Picea abies 'Pendula' shown in 'Conifers the Illustrated Encyclopedia' called: Picea abies 'Pendula' (variegated form). "A mutant with yellow new shoots that later turn green. Found by Jean Iseli, Boring, Oregon, U.S.A., and not yet named."

It should be an exceptional plant and if given a lot of room and a lot of years (grows 1 foot a year), it will look like this someday, but have the variegated new spring flush.

Picea abies 'Pendula' - Gotelli Collection, US National Arboretum May 2006:

"Don't forget to wave!" - I'm in a Brown and Tan Bus!

Dax

Are you sure these freak spruces weren't kept in dark storage and the new growth blanched? I would reserve one but watch them for a week or so before you jump in with both feet. If they're stable, THEN dig out your wallet.

Guy S.

Sounds reasonable, but not likely.

Best of luck,

VW Guy.

I GOT IT!!!!

here are photos of the weeping norway spruce. looking closely at it, i see spots where the cream is turning to light green - there are some signs of possible stress (guessing by some of the brown or is that normal?). it has a distinct "S" shape - i believe these had JUST come off of the truck when i spotted them first on friday night. it's a little over 5' tall - and the green looks very pretty and healthy. i got one - what do you guys think? it's all i can do to go buy the others.

so this will get big, Dax? and full sun (min 5hrs), right?

and another....

close-up of the new growth....

ok. just one more!

can you tell i really love it???? now i'm officially "conifer-obsessed"...

That's great! Okay, now I want one too. Or two. Or....

That's why you have to shop it all!

I'd love a small couple pieces of wood from that if at all possible come this winter. I'll trade you for a graft or something from my garden...

Good score!

About size and all that: It'll grow exactly as a Picea abies 'Pendula' just from appearance of overall shape... So, stake it to get it going up, or stake it to a height you'd like it to stay at and then allow the branches to weep and grow to the ground creating a weeping/arching mound or just plant it in a large area and it will ramble around for a long time and each one will never grow the same. Eventually, though, as with many conifers that acquire substantial age and are prostrate plants such as this cultivar, they will throw up one or more several leaders that will take on upright form. That's about it.

Let me know if we could possibly work something out. I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks,

Dax

Hi Plymouthgarden,

If you would, could you ask the purchase for that store where the plant came from, for me, please. Thanks. I'd like to know who grew this plant (many nurseries put their own tags on and remove the growers tag at times - which appears as the case here). That tag is what is on everything at my local Lowes. Track it would you please?

Thanks very much and it's certainly worth knowing what cultivar name (if any) it's been labled as.

Take care,

Dax

Hi Dax - This tag is on the Home Depot, Lowes & Walmart in my area. This came from HD, and NO one there knew anything about their stock - I usually am lucky to even run into someone actually WORKING in the nursery! If I can find anything about it - I will let you know. Isn't it great?! When it stops raining here (it's been raining for a week and they expect it to rain ALL week) I will go out to see if it has another tag - so far as I see it's just that one hang-tag which doesn't list any cultivar name. Have you ever seen anything like this? Should I go buy the other ones? I guess that would be a little insane...but then again....!!

One question - the staking - how exactly does one do that? I've never done that - is there a website that gives directions?

Thanks for your help - this was my "evergreen" year - I've been a sort of hosta, & giant shade plant maniac for a while - now I'm moving into the front & side yard where there's sun.

Here's a pic of what's in the back yard - thus my obsession with large leaved plants!

Kara

I'm even more suspicious now that I've seen the photos. I think that tree broke bud while in dark storage and blanched. If so, it should turn green soon, and will not show white again next year. Time will tell -- hope I'm wrong.

Guy S.

Guy - Is there something in particular that makes you think that? A certain look? So if this was indeed a different variety of WNS, then it would hold this color a bit longer and not convert so quickly to green? Is there another way to tell before next year's growth? Thanks...

Kara

To heck with the WNS. I'm appreciating the gentle giants of your back yard. Those examples of Fagus grandifolia are splendid.

I am a little concerned about the biped/quadriped showing the pinkish/reddish foliage illustrated. If you weren't aware, they start out innocuous enough (though with considerable pain, as I understand). Soon they require more than just occasional care, increasingly large inputs of nutrition, and you have to train them ALL THE TIME. Even then, sometimes they turn on you and make unreasonable demands on your time and resources.

Generally dioecious, said to come true, though with cross-pollination you can get some interesting offspring. I have found them to be most enjoyable in the neighbor's yard where I can observe them from a safe distance. They do tend to stray somewhat, though they are easy to root out.

Good luck with raising yours; seems to be a gregarious specimen.

oh - gregarious is just BEGINNING to describe that one! i'm teaching her to appreciate trees and nature and she LOVES to help me dig. we just had the magnolias blooming here - and she (5) will say from the back seat - there's another magnolia! both kids can identify strange shade plants by sight and latin name too - very funny. my oldest one was with me when i found this weeping NS and she FLIPPED over it. you are right though - they require CONSTANT attention, and the food? well - they want to eat EVERYDAY! they are super nice and cute though - so it's worth the effort. if i can raise 2 plant lovers, then i'm happy!

thanks for the compliment regarding our beeches - we actually have 4 - all european beeches - probably about 80' tall and the biggest is 13' around. one is a cut-leaf. they are magnificent...especially in the rain which we've been getting since it seems like forever!

A cream flush like that will generally last 1-2 weeks. Longer if it is placed in less sun - however keep your requirements you mention above (or) full sun. Don't be concerned if the cream growth burns while changing to green. This is normal. I'm sorry to inform you the color won't last all that long.

You still have something special. A plant I haven't come across yet except in books and it appears you got one. To resolve this matter, I would be inclined to call Iseli Nursery (people like you and me do it all the time) and see who's growing this plant - or they'll at least know if they are the only one growing it. I mention above something "similar" was found on the grounds of their nursery.

If Guy's right, then be it. Personally, however, I'd tend to give people more credit than that, whether they deserve it or whether they do not.

Take care,

Dax - (scionwood)

I didn't read the entire thread because too much is going on here but I love that new growth on the Weeping Norway Pine and it does "green up" in time.

Forgot to mention that this is the year of the Viburnum and Conifer for me. Here's a neat little plant I bought a few of for myself. I don't have them in the ground yet but I'm working on that. They are Thuja plicata 'Whipcord', cute aren't they-

Here's another photo of the Whipcord-

Well - upon your urging, Dax, I called Iseli. They said infact they ARE growing something like this, but it hasn't been released to the public yet, and that it's in the "planning" stages and wouldn't be released to the public for several years...she said theirs are just 1-2' tall. She agreed with Guy - that it was blanched from being on a truck for 5-7 days. She did hesitate for quite a few mins before she answered my question - and seemed very surprised that I knew anything about what they had...! MAN, am I bummed! I thought I had found a terrific thing - now I'm wondering if I should return it. Do you think then, if it's the new growth being blanched, that tree is stressed and it would be better to get one that has green new growth? If it's a "regular" weeping norway spruce, then I don't know how interested in it I am.....! Could use that money to buy several different evergreens instead of one.

Oh, and this plant DID come from Oregon - says GWN Banks, OR on the tag - can't find any google info about it though.

Geez. What do you folks think? And thanks so much for all the advice - I bow down to the conifer knowledge you all have!

Kara

Guy - I added a few pics of the beeches last spring - i was laid-up last year because i had back surgery so spent a LOT of time on DG because I couldn't walk! i'm making up for lost time this year - have been dividing, planting and transplanting like a maniac! i added a few of the beech pics to the plant files - we consider ourselves their guardians!

Oh - and I think this WNS is going back to the store....oh well...i'm very thankful for all of your combined experience.... !

Am I right in assuming that this tree would be considered a stressed tree?

Kara

Stressed, yes, but not necessarily seriously. It should green up soon and could be OK with some reasonable care, if you want it regardless of color. Just don't pay them the big bucks for something it's not. And if you do want a weeping spruce out there on the East Coast, consider Picea glauca 'Pendula' which is an outstanding selection IMHO.

Don't mention back surgery in my presence! I probably will need it soon, but I'm sort of hoping I get run over by a cement truck before then. Are you OK now, or did it maim you for life?

Guy S.

You know - you might not hear this often but BACK SURGERY WAS THE BEST THING I EVER DID FOR MY BACK! I had a herniated/broken-off disc pressing on my sciatic nerve causing never-ending pain - my situation was very mechanical and straightforward. Had a micro-discectomy to remove the floating stuff that was pressing on the nerve.....by one of the fanciest docs in Boston (I was lucky I knew his surgical tech and got in quickly). It was a tough recovery, but I have to say on the other side of it - I've never felt stronger. I'm careful how I do things, but now I have my life back...it was totally worth it. There IS life on the other side of surgery - I think it really depends on your situation. I never want to be there again - I do feel your pain if you have back trouble. I was sooo depressed last spring, watching everything come up, knowing that I couldn't walk, never mind bend over and divide my hostas, or work in the yard. This spring is a gift!

Oh - and I am going to bring that spruce back - i know it's cheap for a Weeping Norway Spruce (the independent nurseries are selling them for between 200-400. (it was 99.00), but that's still a lot of money to us. I could saying pay for it a 50% discount, but not full price now that I know what I know. I'll add that Picea to my notebook of stuff to look for too. Thanks for the heads-up. Was just walking around the yard with my husband, making a plan to move a few things around this weekend - if it EVER stops raining....

Thanks again!

Kara

Glad it worked for you. Maybe I'll try brain surgery first. Hopefully they can cut something to make me forget about the back (and the knees, and the ankles, and especially the shoulder . . . )
Guy S.

Your tempting with that pretty picture again Evil, I may have to start planting them everywhere!!!

Oh, Kara, I can so relate to your experience with back surgury. Not my favorite experience to go through, but it sure beats going throught life in a wheel chair, which would have been my fate but for an operation in 1971. I got fusion...

Well, I'll be a horse's uncle.

Nice work Guy.. I stand prouldly corrected simply because I hadn't ever heard of anything like that happening ever before, plus, to be honest, I didn't even feel like listening to you to be honest (Ooops! and I really apologize for having to admit that). I will however, rack this one up as yet another chapter in my life. Nice work again on a job well done, Guy - you aren't in need of no stinkin' labotomy. I'll also of course be sure to let everybody know exactly when I've been successful at dislodging my own shoe from my own mouth!

Good luck with your next conifer purchase! :) ...And I still recommend a VW Van to all you amateur drivers out there.

Best and grilled cheese sandwiches,

Dax

Patrick, I just love that photo! I'm glad you find it inspiring ;)

Dax, he does too need a lobotomy reversal if he thinks I want an Albizia in my yard. By the way, did you see the photos of my new little Whipcords in that other thread? I'm so proud of those. What do you think of the Whipcord? My Uncle Fogy is looking great. That's another one that makes me smile. I really love that tree as well as the two Hillside Creeper plants.

Like I said Dax, you conifer geeks were so excited about the potential that you all were hopping up and down and peeing in your pants, or you would have seen the same thing!
By the way, MY next conifer purchase is two of those Juniperus rigida 'Pendula' at a king's ransom -- I finally bit the bullet, dug out the wallet, and did it.

Guy S.

Did you break a tooth when you bit the bullet? Didn't think so. Glad you bought them. Everyone deserves to treat themselves to fun plants. Those are particularly nice looking trees. I like those droopy trees. They're graceful.

(Writing in notebook: Guy-Juniperus rigida 'Pendula' - scionwood May 2006) - Just kidding! Super-spectacular plant, Guy.

I like the part about peeing in my pants best, I'd say that very well describes my insanity earlier. You weren't fooled though...which is half the reason I joined this website. Not only were you a great "Guy" to a large crowd, you knew what you were talking about. Plus, you weren't a "fighter". I hope that doesn't come across as too cheesy, or "too likable"/"stalker" weirdo-guy, but what the heck, a man's gotta say sometimes what's on his mind and besides, people don't give to many compliments anymore either.

Equil, I saw your 'Whipcord'(s). I have an impartial attraction to them currently, which I'm sure is exactly the opposite, I think you'd suspect to hear, but that's just my gig at the moment. Don' listen to me though. I haven't had much if any experience with them other than a woman from Indiana talking about them last year on gardenweb (her's had cones) and just how she was in love with the couple she had, and her photos. The final outcome of that conversation if I remember correctly , or at least a very large part of it, was that 'Whipcord' was going to look similar in appearance to Thuja occidentalis 'Filiformis' - which I have a photo of, so will show. Pines fpr some unknown reason have been intensley on my mind lately, but I did get these two conifers recently (Spruces): Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns' and Picea engelmmannii 'Blue Angel' from Bob Fincham of mail-order Coenosium Gardens located in the state of Wasington. (photos to follow)

Take care Equil,

Good thread.

Dax

Thuja occidentalis 'Filiformis' - Bickelhaupt Arb. Clinton, IA - March 04.