Seed Snatchin' XVI Sifted, Sorted & Stacked!

Okay, thanks for the info:) It will be hard for me to limit the amount of seeds I want to start, since I am full throttle, but I will try :) Thanks for telling me I should start them earlier than the package says. I am going to look into germinators, as i have read great things about them.. Any suggestions as to brands would be appreciated as well. :) I would welcome anything else about starting seeds that comes to mind and I am going to study up and continue to ask questions :)


Yesterday, I spent many hours weeding... yes, the weather was that great here ... and I want to ask you all.... should I go ahead and put down a pre-emergent in my beds to keeps the weeds at a minimum? My husband has asked to do this and I have insisted that no, I wanted flower seeds to be able to germinate naturally. However, now in my second true year of gardening, I am realizing that it's even harder for me to weed now that I am having to select between that seedlings of the rose campion that has self sown and all the other little things that must be picked out around it. I have lots of the rose campion seed that I saved from last year. My thinking was that a garden was much easier to have if the seeds sowed themselves, but with the weeds to contend with, now I'm not so sure. Also, I think it would help if I put the size of this garden bed into perspective.. it is ten feet deep divided by a white picket fence and it goes down the entire length of my front lawn which is 180 feet. However, there is this one particular patch which is the length of 20 feet where everything germinates on it's own, but this means weeds and seeds. Opinions??

Thanks :)

Susan

This message was edited Jan 1, 2006 4:16 PM

I use preen, but before any weeds emerge. So I don't know how effective it would be on something that had already sprouted.

soulgarden, I think your seedlings may have succumed to 'damping off'. After germinating them, remove them from the heatsource and then add hydrogen peroxide to the water that you use to water them. Water from the bottom only when they need it. (Take my word for that. I've killed more things through over-watering than I care to admit.) Also make sure you have good air circulation around the babies.
Sigh. I wish I could take Weezingreen's advice about not starting too many seeds when you are only planting your own garden. She is SOOOOO right! I was giving away nicotiana last year by the potful because most of them germinated and then went on to grow up! but I continue to compulsively plant every seed that comes in the packet!

Now, who can give me some advice about germinating some seed I snatched last summer? I have no idea the plant. I snatched the seed because I liked the plant so much, but didn't know what it was and couldn't take a photo. The clues I have are as follows:
growing in full sun
woody perennial, about 2 1/2 feet tall, spiky pink flowers. I
I'm guessing, based on where it was planted, that it is drought tolerant.
I've stored the seeds in the greenhouse until now, so they've gone through some chilling, but no frost.
Any ideas?

Defoe- yes that is right, it would only work on those seeds that had not yet come up, but I'm thinking of the future and my workload vs having seeds germintae on their own.

Pixy, yes I am very aware that damping off may have been the reason too :) I didn't use seed starting mix and I will this time. I used regular soil reasoning that seeds make it in the garden, why not in my trays? HA HA. Also, how do you water from beneath it your using a regular tray that has no holes in the bottom? What do you use?

I have no idea about your seeds!!! Your more advanced than me. Good luck though :)

Susan

I have been such a slack gardener!! Haven't done a THING!! Haven't even really winterized my yard either. I have all these Rudbeckia seeds I want to list for postage and haven't cleaned those either.... Haven't been on here much as far as that goes..

Don't forget about adding peroxide to your water to help fight dampening off!

Nicole

Nicole, we both have younins though! It makes a difference right now :) I just "winterized" mine and pulled my seeds from what was remaining and I pulled all the dead foilage off the daylillies and such. I'm ready to plant some seds now and try to make my garden georgeous. :) I was very very late last year and didn't get things in the ground in time and that wont happen this year :)

Susan

Yep! It does make a difference. Mine has been exceptionally sweet lately too so it's hard to keep my hands off him!! LOL!!

Get to plantin Susan!!!

Susan I have been reading, while you were busy with the kids, on the Brug forum about using rock wool to sprout seeds in. I think it was Kell that had information on it. Seems like it really works for everyone that posted about it.
I have Yellow Manihot Hibiscus and Lily seeds if any one wants any. The lily is the one that I think is formosoaum (sp) that I posted about. I carried 46 pots of them to the first roundup that I went to that I grew from seeds. Here is a picture of them. They grow tall 3-5 feet.

They sound/look absolutely gorgeous. Would they grow up here?

I agree, so hard not to start the whole pack. I exercised some restraint last year. Have some half packs to start this year, along with the multitude more going to get.

Went to New Years Day get together and snitched yesterday. She gave me some seeds she got from the Canadian B+B, last year. Red and white roses. She said they were tall and gorgeous. Of course, if I get them to grow, gotta give her some plants back, LOL. Fair enough.

Not sure exactly how going to germinate them. They prob need at least winter stratification. Maybe wam, then cold stratification. Oh well. Was good to snitch them first, ask questions later. Right?! ~ Suzi :)

Here's a great site for germination requirements: http://tomclothier.hort.net/ When I receive seeds that don't have planting instructions, I often visit the Tom Clothier site and print up the info to pack up with the seeds.

I never plant to whole flats. I plant to 1201 cell packs. Twelve will fit in a standard 11x22 " holeless flat. They are essentially the same size as any cell packs, and the same height, but only one cell. A container that size will grow more than enough seedlings for most purposes. I can transplant at least two flats from a container that size... sometimes many more. The photo is of achillea (yarrow) seedlings in the 1201 and being transplanted into a 6-cell pack.

Oh Jim, thats pretty. :)) Okay, can you send a link for the rock wool method so we can check it out? What method do you use for your seeds Jim? Do you still grow the celosia? That was nice stuff!

Weezin, Sorry, but I need to spell it out for myself.... what your saying is that you germinate 12 seeds in a small flat.. When they germinate and are large enough you transfer them to a six pack, right? I'm going to go check out that site. thanks. :)

I have been playing with the idea of using those salad take out containers for seed starting. They have the black bottoms and clear tops that lock in. Problem is I haven't been saving them up.. and would need to get my hands on some in bulk, but I bet they would be less than seed starting flats. Maybe a restuarant supply place? I've only seen styrofoam at Costco.

I still need to know how yall water from the bottom if your using flat without holes? or are you??

Any reccomendations on germinators?

Here's a picture of the TV. I saw this and frooze the TIVO. Yes, I am a nut, but thought it was pretty and should post in the ID forum to see what it is. :)

I use the let them fall and where they land that is where they grow. I will check it out and see if I can find it. Might be a day or so but I will get back. Here is the lily and how tall they grow. The cockscomb I believe is what you are referring to and they come up everywhere. About a 150% germination success. LOL
This is the lilies. They grow about 3-5 feet tall. That is spider wort that is around it with other lilies

150% huh? Gee sounds like magic!! :))

Ohhhh Jim, that's prrrrrudyyyyyy!! I want some please!! :)

Yes, the cockscomb! Obviously, I need to try again... I didn't want you to know but I guess you have read the truth now Jim, last years seeds didn't do to well due to me and I need to start over!! I will do you proud this time I promise!!!

When you're just starting out and have more beds than flowers, I need to be a little bit more strategic about it. However, I still am very tempted to order huge bulk quanties from Johnnys commercial growers catalog and just throw it all out over the place and have a great wild flower garden.... Seriously, for the amount of work i did last year , the prettiest thing i had and the biggest complements i got were from the huge sunflowers I had direct sown.. but, i still need to get this seed starting thing down :)

Does the lily bloom in the first year?

Susan

This message was edited Jan 2, 2006 10:23 PM

This message was edited Jan 2, 2006 10:23 PM

Thank you for the Tom Clothier site, Weezin. I lurk here often, but never post 'cuz I know nothing. Maybe I can read up and get smart?

I'm sure you know something!! Your smart enough to hang out with these folks that have knowledge... were in this learning together... I'm just not smart enough to get embarrased by asking silly questions!!

:)

Susan

Susan mine did. The cockscomb you don't need to plant seeds I will have a gazillion come spring and I will get you some ready to plant.

Oh thanks Jim!! :))))

Weezin, I have just about printed out that entire web site now.. Great info :)

Susan

I don't sow individual seeds to cell packs, unless they are large seed such as borage. In most cases, I broadcast the seeds on the surface of my sterilized soil mix. If the seeds are like dust, I mix them with coarse sand. Some seeds need to be covered, and some are surface sown.

I set the individual 1-cell packs into a holeless flat. The cell packs have drain holes. I moisten the starter mix before I put it in the 1-cell pack, tamp it down, then mist the surface before sowing seeds. I don't ater them from the bottom until the seedlings are big enough to remove the domed lid

Great info... What sterilized soil mix do you use? I know a great local gardener that uses potting soil and he said he microwaves it in his garage (it stinks I hear) to kill all pathogens and save $ on soilless mixes. Thoughts on that?
Weezin, your the best and I am grateful for the info.

Susan

One more thing.. Do you keep light over them for 16 hrs a day?

This message was edited Jan 3, 2006 12:45 AM

I use a Promix starter (3.8 cf). I get it from a wholesale supplier in Anchorage. If you scroll down to the second entry on this page, you'll get some info on it: http://homeharvest.com/pottingmixes.htm Once the seedlings get true leaves, I transplant them into a good potting mix. I use Sunshine mix# 7: http://www.sungro.com/products_displayProProduct.php?product_id=31&brand_id=1 I'm sure both these products are available in smaller amounts, if one looks around.

I don't use garden soil in my planting until I get them out to the greenhouse. Up to that point, they all get the soiless, peat based mixes. I believe the soiless starter mixes are much less stinky than garden soil when sterilizing them. I add a bit of water to some mix in a bowl (easier to reach internal temp), fill a turkey sized roasting bag, set the bag on its side on a big cookie sheet, punch a couple holes in the top, add a meat thermometer, and set the oven for about 200 degrees. When the thermometer reaches 180, I leave it in for 1/2 hr. I cool, then dump the sterilzed soil in a clean bucket or large bowl. I keep the mix covered and try not to introduce any bacteria during use. I sterilize all containers, including flats and dome lids. Here's a picture of a flat with 6-cell inserts and a dome lid: https://hydroponicstore.com/catalog/images/jiffy2.jpg

Here's a good link for seed starting ideas: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/367693/

And here are some great ideas for alternative containers: http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002055224008348.html

Hi Jim!!!

Thanks Weezin :) I have emailed those companies to see where the local suppliers are. I just called Home Depot to see if they had any soiless seed starting mix and they guy was clueless :) I'll find some :)

Thanks so much for all the info.. I have just found my copy of : "Making more Plants" by Ken Druse and I will be reading that too. :)

Susan

Hey! Blaine (8ftbed) sent me a Christmas card!! I need to write him a letter and beg him to come back! Maybe we can start a letter writing campaign!!

BLAINE, you out there lurking??? :)

WE miss you!!!

Hi Nicole, We missed you at the Ga roundup. Hope you are making plans for the next one.

Gosh, Blaine's garden pics were awesome :) I could stand to learn lots from him as well as yall!

Yea Nichole, missed ya.. and Sidney too!! And Angie.. but she's not on this thread :)

I'm starting to get seed cataloges regularly now. I am compulsive and must contain myself! it's hard, but I don't have a full time staff.. maybe I should work on that and I could order all the seeds I wanted!! :)

Okay, here are two garden albums I'm sharing :)

http://tinyurl.com/anpre

http://tinyurl.com/dn8z5


Susan

I have been piling seed catalogs in my car and I'm afraid to look at them! Especially the Burpee one....

Anyone talk to Blaine anywhere other than DG?

Nicole

Not only have I been ordering from the catalogs, but online too!! Somebody stop me! I love Burpee and especially Johhnies. I'm about to start setting up my seed starting lights and cart. It's been so warm here that it's really getting me all excited about my summer garden :) I'm really looking forward to it this year.

:)

Susan

I have to figure out how to pay for plants. I have a $500.00 wish list racked up at Bluestone Perennials alone! Not to mention T&M, Select Seeds and Wayside! Oh, and I need annuals for my windowboxes eventually, plus evergreens (for the structure I didn't think I needed when I first started my garden), and some new iron pillars and a fountain and....

Now that we can order seeds online, it is just too easy to spend, spend, spend. I'm forcing myself to sort through my traded seeds before I order more. My first big order will be Stokes, but I will have a pricey order with Chilterns, as well, I'm afraid.

I used to hate seeds... but somehow I'm addicted now. I think its cause of DG!! Now I can't stop =( But I get sooooooooooo many more plants for my money!

I still haven't looked at my catalogs! HA! I'll show them! Truly I have enough in my fridge to keep me busy for several summers!

I probably wouldn't be ordering at all if I didn't have to fill some orders for repeat customers. I need larger amounts of seed so I can do several flats of each kind. Otherwise, I could just plant what I have. In a pinch, I could do that without the new seeds, but what fun is that!

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net

I thought I better add to people's pain/pleasure by posting this link here. Very fast service, incredible variety of seeds!!! Be careful out there! This is a slippery slope! I just spent about 50$ on seeds at this guy's site. And the catalog is good reading, too. A very interesting guy.

Yes, I too have ordered sooooo many seeds. You would think I have a farm.. A small one anyway. Well, I am more on the ball this year as opposed to last. At least I am getting myself organized and starting them "correctly" and in better time than last year. I'm just so excited about this season for all the seeds I have. I have no idea what it's all going to look like, but as long as it looks incredible, I'm fine with that!

Also, I have about 30 foxgloves that should bloom for me this year and I am soo excited about that and the prospect of getting more seeds from them as well. It's going to be a big year for me.

Weezin, thanks for the tips too! I've still been reading and that helps as well.

I am interested in knowing- Has anyone tried using a heating blanket under a sheet of plastic as a soil warmer? I saw someone on DG do this and it is much more economical to use a heating blanket for lots of trays than those small heating pads for each one. However, if I did this, I'd have to figure out a way to have all the lights suspended over the table I am going to be using and I haven't figured that out yet, but my husband is good about that sort of thing :)

Also, does anyone use a thermometer to test your soil temp while your growing? Does soil temp matter if the seeds have already germinated or does it just need to be warm for the seeds to germinate? If so, I could germinate the seeds, plant and not worry about the mat right? I could just have the lights then? Thanks.

One more question. Does the size of the container matter when starting seeds? I have read that if you use too large a container for certain plants, you will drown them, or that they need to be able to fill into and touch the walls with the roots. I would want to start seeds in a large salad container and let them develop their true leaves there. I would then transplant them to one gallon size pots and would it be okay to use regular soil at this point so long as I nuked it first to kill off any pathogens?

If this is too much asking, I'm sorry.. I'll ask in the propagation forum! :))

Thanks!!!

:)

Susan

Heating blankets may pose a fire hazard if left unattended or if used while folded over on themselves, at least according to manufacturer's warnings. I would at least rig some sort of thermostat control for a heating pad or blanket, and plug it into a power strip with a fuse/surge protector. The "light boxes" that some folks have built seem pretty economical also (enclosed sides and an incandescent lightbulb or two for warmth, with a thermostatic switch). I think soil temp is more important for starting germination, but some seedlings (like peppers) definitely love the additional warmth (bottom heat for soil temp of 78 to 80 degrees). Last year, I discovered that tomatoes should be moved off the heat mat as soon as they begin to sprout, or the seedlings become extremely leggy.

I like salad containers for use as seed flats! I use a hot metal skewer to poke holes in the bottom (for drainage) and the top (for ventilation). I fill with an inch or so of moistened potting mix, and I like to add some extra perlite as well as some small size granules of polymer moisture crystals (helps keep things from getting too soggy as well as from getting dried out between waterings). If the mix seems too wet, I pop the top on the container for a day or two until it looks better, but I generally keep the lid of the container closed.... a little condensation tells you the humidity levels are good for germination, and the ventilation holes help keep things from staying too wet. Somewhere last spring I posted Tom DeBaggio's detailed explanation of seed starting and his "clump" transplanting method.... maybe on one of WZ's threads... I'll have to look for it!

You might find this thread from the Pepper Forum useful... scroll down for my pretty detailed expanation of how I started my peppers last year. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/492998/

aha! I found that post about clump transplanting, and it wasn't very long, so I'll just paste it here:

I've been planting basil and some other things (alyssum, lobelia, dill, parsley) in clumps for several years now, following the directions Tom DeBaggio sets out in his "little book" (_Growing Herbs from Seed, Cutting & Root: An adventure in small miracles_), and I've had great success. He's a fan of clump transplanting for several reasons. A larger clump of roots in the pot means it's harder to drown the little seedlings (root & stem rot are less likely when the roots take up more water and accelerate the drying of the growing medium), and you get a nice branched appearance before you even start pinching back. He recommends 3 or more plants in a clump (my clumps max out around 7, and some of those basil varieties just got clumped by twos this year). In his words, "I don't count them, but take what comes apart most easily with the least root damage. It would defeat the beneficial effects.... to prick out individual seedlings and gather them in clumps.... the larger the leaves, the fewer seedlings in the clump." The other big thing is to set the seedlings into the pot lower than they were growing in the seedling flat, preferably (depth of pot permitting) with the true leaves level with the growing medium and the nurse leaves (cotyledons) covered.

My dad got me a coldframe !! :) It just came yesterday and I haven't had time to open it.. I need to get back in gardening mood - I'm just NOT lately..

Well, that ought to get you in the mood, NC! Hope it doesn't require assembly! That's always my downfall.

Critter, I remember talking about planting in clumps, but I've only done it with lobelia and some other typical types. I swear I'll try it this spring!

Well it's currently FLAT In a box so assembly is inevitable.. My mom will come help me though! She's good with that kind of stuff .

OOHHHH Lobelia... I didn't start any last year and regretted it all summer! Well at least until it's usual summer death date...

Soulgardenlove, I have several kinds of foxgloves if you want more kinds of seeds. What kind do you have? I love all the Digitalis species and ordered about 5 packets of kinds I didn't have.
I use a heating pad on low to germinate some of my seeds because I don't have enough heated seedbeds in the greenhouse. I've used them several years in a row with no problem, but I keep them only on low. I also use a soil thermometer just at first because the heating pads don't really tell you how hot they get. I don't want to fry the seeds!

I think I must be a clump planter because I'll just scoop up a clump of seedlings from the tray and plant them in a large pot. It seems to work with certain things that can be planted closely together anyway. But I admit, I didn't know it had a name. I'm just lazy.