Is this really legal?

Let's see if this works http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/468765/

Cool links Equil! I guess I will have to research what's growing in our naturally occurring fens for this region.
I'm thinking I have the perfect area for this.
Also, why not tap water if it's from a well and there is no added stuff like flouride and chlorine??

Many a person has gathered rain water and purchased distilled water only to later learn their tap water contained no harmful minerals. Have it tested and see what elements are found in it. My water is treated. We have an iron curtain, and several other gadgets as well as water softeners and that knocks us out from being able to use our well water. Bummer. I gather rain water and I haul in bottled distilled water by the gallons.

Wow, I've been stuck on an invasive hit list for Florida and down loading my personal album to identify these by.
http://www.fleppc.org/
If you live in Florida, scroll down the left menu to Capt. Good Plant. They've done alot of the work towards our goal.
I can stay busy without a drop of petro, if you know what I mean.

I'm gonna go for a while....DH is having cateract surgery....I'll be back later this afternoon

(;>)

Very interesting forum!! As a landscape designer I deal with customers who want plants that are attractive, low maintenance and frequently 'deer proof'. Rarely do I get a customer who understands the importance of using native plants.

It is frustrating to work in a business where few nurseries deal in native plants and fewer landscape contractors are willing to plant them. When you find a contractor who is willing to plant natives, then the challenge becomes finding customers who understand the value of native landscpaing.

As a new member to DG, I have not done any trading yet. Traders could start with offering trades to members who reside in the plant's native range. It would be a start.

As many above have stated, education is the key to change.

Welcome to you Secludedgardens. If you are sincerely interested in a forum such as the one I recommended, please go on over and post that you would be interested as I was sort of thinking it would be great too and it appears to be getting shot down by a few gardeners! Here's the link-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/468765/

I have to admit that I giggled to myself when I saw a post on burning bushes over in Garden Foes. Tee he, burning bushes ARE the foe. I was thinking to myself that I saw nothing in that thread that a good acetylene torch wouldn't take care of post haste. I don't think that was the type of help that poster was looking for though. Ugh, I had 12 fully mature and fruiting burning bushes planted here 5 years ago. The landscaping firm we hired to "help us out" over here suggested the first 10 because they "would really make a statement in my front yard". I liked them so much that I bought 2 more. Oh they really made a statement in my front yard over the next few years. They also made a statement in my neighbors' yards and I ended up with a note in my mailbox. I also ended up removing and burning all of mine last fall and then I had to go out and seek out the little seedlings in my woodlands that were continuing to make a statement on my property. The seedlings were easy to spot because of their brilliant red fall foliage.Will wonders never cease! I had at least 50 seedlings in under 4 years. I did a little research on Euonymous alata and oh boy was I hopping mad. The landscaper came over to check on his plantings (he had alsosold me the Bradford Pears and Russian Olives planted here) and I took it upon myself to ask him why he had selected burning bushes for me. His comment was that they weren't against the law yet in Illinois. I originally selected him as he indicated he would select appropriate plants for my yard. He never said word one about those burning bushes yet he knew. Turns out there was a fire sale on them so to speak. Nurseries are dumping them off around here in anticipation of the Governor adding them to the list of noxious weeds because of their "undesirable" characteristics and the clean up costs. Oh well, live and learn. That landscaper's contract was terminated and I lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars that could have been spent purchasing appropriate shrubs that I wouldn't have to remove such as Fothergilla.

You said this. "It is frustrating to work in a business where few nurseries deal in native plants and fewer landscape contractors are willing to plant them." Do you have any idea how frustrating it is for a homeowner new to gardening to have to deal in that environment? I was about ready to pull my hair out. The same landscaper had recommended purple loosestrife to me. I am thankful right about now that I didn't have money left over to buy any from him right about now as I would have at the time. There are countless nurseries around me now specializing in native plants so I am very lucky. There are also countless nurseries on line specializing in natives. Their numbers have grown dramatically in just the past few years since I started gardening. I like the looks of native plants myself personally but I didn't know they were out there and available until I began running into people like you.

Keep up the good work with your customers! They'll most assuredly thank you some day.

Hi Secluded and welcome. I sure wish your had been the landscaper when my house was first built (I was not the original owner but bought it about 2 years after it had been built). Ten years later I am still fighting with invasives that were put down buy the builder because they were fast growers and easily available and highly adaptable....i.e. invasive!

Howdy, well, I might go into Un-Landscaping and "Plant Management". This of course would enable me to trim back good plants, (Shuuu) and remove bad plants. It would feed my "Where can I plant that?" compulsion with new secret dirt and Native goodies. Florida has plenty.

Equilibrium: So sorry to hear about your landscaping dilema. Unfortunately this is common place in the industry. As an independent landscape designer my preference is working directly with customers. When hired by the customer, I am able to design gardens to meet the customers needs as well as proper environmental conditions. However, until my business expands (and I can comfortably afford to pay my mortgage) I will have to continue to take on projects referred to me by contractors. The contractors I work with are good people and do quality work but don't necessarily have the same committment to plant selection that I do. There are many reasons that contractors choose non-native or invasive plants. 1) These plants are available at more nurseries than their native counterparts; 2) Invasive plants are easier to propagate, therefore increasing availibility and decreasing the price; 3) Customers are looking for landscapes that look 'mature' upon installation and many of the less desirable plants are faster growing. This means a contractor can install larger plant sizes for a lower cost. In the last two years I have had only 2 customers who were interesed in using native plants. 4) Customers are usually looking at price for the deciding factor when hiring a landscape contractor to install the project. If I spec. a single trunk White Fringetree and the contractor can save the customer $200 by substituting a 'Bradford' Pear in 99% of the cases it's a no-brainer!; 5) Contractors lose a lot of money on plant warranties...needless to say they want to plant something that is going to survive!!!

Sorry...I know that was long. If I want to get work from contractors (which I do), then I need to strike a balance between plants that are available & contractors are willing to use, and plants that I feel can meet the design objective and be controlled. Contractors will tell me something is a great tree but is too expensive to purchase and too slow growing for customers to appreciate. Contractors are driven by the market (customers). Obviously anyone on this website is different from they typical landscape design customer. Everyone here has a love of plants and at least the desire to learn about plants. Unfortunately most DG members would not hire a landscape designer because they are gardeners themselves!

Glad to hear you planted Fothergilla...it's a great 4 season plant (good form, fragrant white flowers in spring and excellent fall color). Some native plants I love and never use on designs because of availability problems etc. are: Oxydendron arboreum (Sourwood), Enkianthus campanulatus (Redvein Enkianthus) & Kalmia latifolia (Mountainlaurel)

Hopefully gardener to gardener and then outward we can spread the message! (please excuse my spelling...not used to being without my spell check!!)

Yup, you just about summed up what happened by me. Bradfords are a swear word around here because of the incredible nightmare they create for insurance companies when they start self disintegrating at about 12-15 years long after the contractors have pulled off the job and left the homeowners to their own devices. You should see the people upset around here when their Caleryanas go down and take a chunk of their homes or their cars with them. Not happy campers. These trees grow fast and their lives end fast. I had no idea there were so many issues with that tree and I can't believe that landscaper planted one 10' from my family room plate glass windows. I am replacing it with a Kentucky Coffeetree. A suggestion from a member who is here in these forums. That Mt Laurel is a plant I have been trying to get my hands on in a white flowering form to replace the white mulberries I took out. Where do I get that plant? Great suggestion. Thank you very much for that one and I am hoping you know a good online source as that white flowering Mt Laurel has alluded me for a while. I am also looking for white bud. Nobody up here growing those two or the American Yellowwood I need to replace the Russian and Autumn Olives that were taken out.

I know what you mean about customers. I sure as heck got what I asked for to a certain degree. I didn't know any better at the time as I never anticipated a change in guard around here with the homeowners association being turned over to the homeowners and a few unreasonable people getting into positions of authority.

Nope, I ordered the Fothergillas and won't receive them until next spring. I replaced the others with an assortment of viburnums and a host of other really attractive flowering shrubs. Ninebark comes to mind as well as that really nice flowering New Jesey Tea. Both suggestions from other gardeners right here in my area. I did my best but would have loved to have been able to get my hands on mature Fothergillas.

I am not familiar with this at all- Enkianthus campanulatus (Redvein Enkianthus). Tell me about that plant please.

Equil we have tons of Mt. Laurel here I will check on weather it can be started from cuttings, bareroot exctera (never tried to grow it it is all over the place). - Dyson

Dyson,

Did you get the spreadsheet I sent you?

Wow...can't believe I forgot Yellowwood! Such a beautiful native tree and seldom planted! Contractors in my area don't use it because it is weak-wooded and short lived, also not readily available. If I could have a tree like Yellowwood for even 10 years, I would consider myself lucky!!!

Enkianthus is a beautiful narrow upright deciduous shrub. Habit is rather open and loose, growing 12-18' tall by 10-15' wide at maturity. This shrub is EXTREMELY slow growing. I think this is one of the main reasons it is not popular in landscaping. However, if you love dainty plants and appreciate natives, this is a wonderful shrub/small tree. Multi-stemmed or low branching, whorled leaves, layering effect, slow growing, off-white bell shapped flowers w/red veins in May or June, bright red fall foliage, nice winter form. We planted one at my parent's home about 10 years ago and I would guess it has grown maybe 2'. So it you are looking for a good small upright near a patio where you can see and appreciate the flowers please consider Enkianthus. Grows in zones 4-7 loving acid soils in full sun to part shade (maybe the deep shade accounts for the slow growth we have seen with our specimen).

dodecatheon
Do you have any pictures of your backyard? I would love to see photos of an all 'natural' area. Thanks

Dyson et. al,

This might be an interesting venue to consider:

"Participation in the Weeds Gone Wild project is open to anyone interested in getting involved and includes federal, State, and local government agencies, non-governmental organizations, universities, private firms and individuals. If you are interested in writing a fact sheet or otherwise helping with this project, please write to: Jil Swearingen, Chair, Alien Plant Working Group, 4598 MacArthur Blvd., NW, Washington, DC 20007, or send an e-mail message. To find out which plant species are in need of fact sheet authors, please check the Scientific Names list in the Plant Lists section. "

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/index.htm

Nice site Pville! I'm bookmarking that!

Hi Dyson, Mt Laurel is supposedly difficult to start from cuttings. I tried, friends tried, everybody tried and everybody failed. Not that this is saying much mind you as you have to consider the skill set of those who were trying but we all literally coddled these cuttings with and without hormones and zip nadda zilch nothing! I am thinking that we did something wrong but what that something was is beyond me. I was able to get seed to germinate though. If you have little seedlings, they transplant well. I just can't get my hands on the white flowering Kalmias and it isn't for lack of trying. Tell me you have a white flowering Kalmia! If you do, may I please have some seed next year?

Hi Secludedgardens, Are we both talking about the same tree... Cladrastis kentuckea? It has a relatively slow growth rate and I was always under the impression its wood was strong. It rarely exceeds 70' but has a very nice spread of around 45'. It's a tree that was used around here for buffer zones for many years until it became scarce. I know it isn't particularly tolerant of pollution and I know it likes well drained soils. Under cultivation, the tree is allegedly not only hardy but healthy. It is not prone to any common insects or diseases which is desirable in and of itself as this prolongs its life span. I was led to believe that these trees needed basic corrective pruning when young to avoid weak branch forks later on down the line. I thought the name Cladrastis meant "brittle branch" because of this. The only actual issue I heard about this tree was that it has thin bark so lots of kids like to carve in it which could leave it vulnerable to pathogens so I was told to keep the kids and pocket knives away from the trees. There are many specimens of this tree supposedly planted decades ago at universities throughout the midwest that are not only surviving but thriving. I loaned my Dirr's to somebody and I can't remember who has it and now you've got me somewhat concerned as I ordered 3 B&Bs of this tree for delivery next spring. What is your experience with this tree in your region? I thought I did my leg work on this beauty before I placed my order but now I am kicking myself for not remembering who has my Dirr's. I need my darn book back as I wanna look up your Enkianthus campanulatus too! Let me know please why you are stating the Yellowwood has only has a 10 year lifespan. I'm hoping you were referring to a foundation lifespan but even that should easily be 25 years. Please get back to me if you were. Thanks!

Are you talking about Texas Mountain Laurel Sophora secundiflora? They are somewhat difficult to establish initially and are some what slow growers. I use to have 2 but lost one to cotton rot last summer :-( Here is my remaining one.

No, you've got one of the many cultivars. There are so many I don't even know what color yours blooms. I'm thinking Dyson's got what I want which is a white flowering cultivar.

Equil -There are (were) some white flowering laurel across the creek from my mothers house at the cabin (haven't been to the cabin in years). I will try to get over there next week end and see what kind of shape they are in. - Dyson

mine are...or rather were....white flowering.....since I only have the one now I won't have the cross polination needed for it to bloom :-(

Well, if we could get Dyson's Mt Laurels and Pvilles Mt Laurel together we'd have lost of little Mt Laurel seed.

Depends on where we get em togeather, if they get togeather in Virginia, that's probably immoral.
If they get togeather in Texas, that's just normal ole movin West.

Does anyone know if you can grow it from root stock?

sugarweed, you crack me up.

lol SIdney...u r a hoot (that's Texan for funny btw...lol)

Dyson,

I think the mountain laurel you have is probably totally different from mine. I don't think mine will grow as far north as you are.

It's time to crack up. Dave's Garden is like Disney World to me. I spend way too much time here, but just love it.
smile more.Sidney

I will try to take some pics this weekend, you can see if they are the same that way, I do remember that the blooms were few and far between.

Dyson,

This is probably what you have: http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=KALA

and what I have is: http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=SOSE3 (although mine is a different cultivar from the one shown)

If what you have is Kalmia latifolia they can be propagated by seeds or cuttings.

I know the Texas Mountain Laurel does not like being transplanted and typically takes a long time to recover from a transplate if it does at all, but not sure if that is true for the ones you have there.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2004 12:36 AM

Oh, Pville, you've got to find a stud muffin for that bush. I have a good ole cooking bayleaf bush, also a laurel.

lol Sydney...I have a bay tree too...but he doesn't seem the least bit interested in Laurel...LOL

Yep, thats a whole case of schillings, what's your secret?

I'll never tell...then it wouldn't be a secret....LOL

The folige looks right but I think the blooms were larger and not clustered such ... then again like I said it has been a long time - as in - maybe I'm supposed to vist mom more often.

LOL well that would probably be mom's answer....I think that one is actually the state flower of Connecticut.

You should definately visit Mom more often. They don't last forever.(;>)
Thank her for raising such a helpful and smart son.

Mom is gettin on - heck I'm not young anymore - will have to get over there this week end.

I've been old for so long my kid brother's nickname is dirt.