Basic Supplies

This will be my first winter that I want to start seeds in my basement. For this year, just some annuals to put out in the spring. What kind of basic supplies am I going to need and where do I purchase them economically?

Thanks for the help!

LimeyLisa Kay

I am so glad you posted this I have been searching for lights, pots, and other items so I am hoping you get lots of answers.
Alice

Lisa and Alice, there are two things more important than anything else. Start with clean/new sterile containers and good seed mix, not just dirt. :) All of these are easily available. I buy the cell packs with flats and lids at Home Depot or wherever but prefer to buy my seed mix at the nursery-good quality and a huge bag (actually several but I start 200-400 types of seeds each year)! LOL I buy the cheaper shop light fixtures at any do it yourself store. Most are four feet long, under $10 each and easy to find bulbs for them right there. Plan on having two side by side for each two 'flats' end to end. You also want extra chain, or rope/cord if it doesn't come with them, for raising and lowering lights. You'll probably need an extension cord and or a power strip and a shelf set if you plan on going crazy. Once the seedlings are up and going, you'll want a fan for good circulation. :) Anybody else can feel free to fill in the gaps or you two can ask questions. I am not quick, but I will return.

Regarding the shop light fixture...just like a florescent light fixture? Do you need a special light bulb or are standard light bulbs okay? Do you need a timer?

Regarding the seed mix...is there only one type? If not, what kind is your recommendation?

Thanks for your help.

LimeyLisa Kay

Yep, just plain old flourescent lights. You can use the regular bulbs too. I have bought the special grow lights in the past and not seen a difference. I cannot say it is worthwhile to spend the money. Just go to a nursery and ask what they use. You just want to make sure it is a nice moss base with vermiculite for drainage and no real soil. I use what my nursery uses. The only time I have had a problem in seven years-I used what they used and it was a batch growing moss. I had trouble with mold, fungus gnats, damping of.... As far as the timer, you don't have to have one. I do use one just so I don't have to go down every morning and every night. Of course you still have to remember to check on them because once they get growing they do tend to dry out fast! You may also want to first treat your seeds with fungicide to prevent damping off. I also like to water with a dilute peroxide water solution.

Thanks for all your help, Badseed, each of your answer brings up more questions!

How do you treat the seeds with a fungicide and what kind do you use? What is the dilute on the peroxide water solution? 1:10? Do you only water with that or just some of the time?

LimeyLisa kay

For the fungicide, you just want something that will deter rot. I'll have to look to find the name of mine. I just dust the seeds with it. Yes on the peroxide, 10 parts water, one peroxide. I use it for the first watering and maybe every 2-3 times after that. It is just a good preventative when you are dealing with baby plants in a cool, damp situation with no nice sunlight. :) As far questions, as away. You may get other opinions as well. I'm sure we do not all do it the same.

So I take it that the fungicide is a powder?

I went past Menards tonight after work. They don't have any cell packs out yet, if they ever do! I will try Home Depot another night. Menards did have a seed starter mix by Scott. Is that not a good brand?

LimeyLisa Kay

I have had good luck with the ordinary shop lights and ordinary fluorescent tubes. But each year I replace the light bulbs so they are as "strong" as possible. I have also used those Jiffy Pellets - kind of like a fine peat product that expands when you water it and it's in a little netting bag. They only work for small seeds/small seedlings, because before you know it, there are roots escaping out the bottom and it's only March and you can't plant those tomatoes outside for another couple months!!
Eileen

In my shop lights, I use one "warm white" bulb and one "cool white" as that gives a better combined color spectrum. Aquarium bulbs are full-spectrum and cheaper than "grow lights" but I don't find it necessary to spend the extra $$ for them.

What about the peat pots along with the jiffy pellets would those work for larger seeds.
I have just finished screening some compost I am wondering if I add perlite to it if it would make a good starting mix or if I am better off to stick with seed starter which is what I have been using this summer.

Limey
I don't think you will find many growing supplies at the moment unless you look online, most of the stores have all ready gotten rid those items for this season.
I'm in zone 5a and by the time August gets here everyone is getting rid of gardening and going into Halloween and Christmas.
I am sure there are a lot of places on line to buy I have been looking but so far haven't found any great prices.

You should be able to purchase growing items starting in January or February at your local stores.

Next to the few gardening items that were still out, they were putting out Christmas. I just don't get that concept! There should be a law...no Halloween before Oct 1. and no Christmas before the day after Thanksgiving! LOL

Okay, putting the old curmudgeon's mask back in the closet until Halloween is actually here!

LimeyLisa Kaay

ROTFLOL I always tell the kids I refuse to look at the stuff for the next holiday BEFORE I get through the one happening! :) Honestly, I would not waste money on peat pellets and jiffy pots. Get yourself some nice 72 cell flats and some four inch pots. You can reuse those until the cows come home and only have to keep buying seed mix. The 72 cells are like 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch and from those you go to the four inch pots and from there into the ground. Just sterilize your cells and pots and start over. :) Oh, be careful of compost. If it contains soil, it could contain eggs or bacteria. The good seed mixes are soiless.

Thanks Badseed hadn't thought of that. I will stick with the soiless that I have been using. I bought some peat pellets and jiffy pots both when they were on clearance and got them really cheap so I am going to use them up and then I will switch back to regular plastic pots. I have been looking for plastic shelving that my son-in-law has volunteered to adapt to growing shelves. I will be sure and pick up some extra chain or cord to make them more flexible, (thanks for that tip) I would appreciate a brand of the fungicide if you don't mind looking. I looked earlier this year a couple times and could not find anything labeled specifically for dampening-off. So I am still in a fog about that. My other question is that I have been saving compost tea to use to water these with, will that be okay once they have growth on them or will it be to strong??
Thanks Again You are A Wonder!!!

Thank you Alice, but I have had a lot of time to perfect it and also learn from my mistakes. LOL Most seed mix and starting trays don't tell you about damping off or fungus gnats or botrytis (think I sp that right?). It breaks my heart to read about a newbie starting a ton of seeds just to have them all shrivel up and fall over. I just looked. The fungicide I use is Captan, easily found wherever you buy organic or pest products. Once you get all your stuff together, the rules get easier. You don't need lights til the seeds sprout. Then keep the lights about four inches above the seedlings so they don't get leggy. Raise them as the plants grow. Water from the bottom so the top of the soil does not stay wet. Hmmm, is that all?? As far as shelving, you can get a nice industrial type at the DIY stores with the metal frames and pressboard shelves for about 50-70. If you get the 2'deep by 4' wide, you can get a whole lot of plants on it! LOL But, plan on putting up three lights per shelf. Good luck!

See this also. http://davesgarden.com/t/403513/

It is amazing all the little stuff that one needs to know to be successful at something so simple. Thanks so much for all the help and pointers. Badseed!

LimeyLisa Kay

Here are some helpful web sites:
http://www.sherrysgreenhouse.com/pages/seedstarting/index.html#healthy_seedlings

http://tomclothier.hort.net/page04.html#p

http://davesgarden.com/t/4769/

Ahh now come on chaps! What happened to the really cheap gardening???

If you look in the cupboard under my sink you will find several stacks of yoghurt, margerine and other similar containers. Each have been washed, soaked and then scrubbed with water mixed with a little bleach. I heat up an old fork on the stove to make holes in the bottom ... total cost ... 0 and they are reuseable for as long as any bought plastic pot. Friends and family are good sources of these if you don't have enough and it's recylcing! Microwave meal trays are good pot saucers too.

Sand is a major ingredient in my seed and cutting media, it costs less than bagged compost and ensures that there is less fertiliser if I happen to have bought a multipurpose compost. I also use less perlite and vermiculite thanks to sand. Some seeds and cuttings will root very well in fine sand alone.

Kathleen gave us a good tip some time back regarding camomile tea for damping off, much more environmentally friendly than chemical fungicides. So is powdered cinnamon which I've used to to good effect over the years.

Open up your kitchen cupboards, it's surprising what you can find ;)

Now Baa, don't go getting all logical! LOL The one year I did have problems, it took the cinnamon, peroxide and fungicide to fix it! I don't have the time or energy to do it all twice. :) Hmm, or the extra seeds. giggle Really, I am glad you did post. People have to find their own method and having more opinions is GOOD!

I have had good success with the cool fluorescent bulbs. I don't like to create any heat from on top. And change them every 2 years, as the ends will begin to lessen in 'power'.

Baa...way cool...I use cinnamon to keep ants off my african violets and where the wee buggerz are coming in the house,they will not cross a line of cinnamon....sure smells better than the alternative also ;-P

"People have to find their own method"

Absolutely Badseed, I agree entirely. If I had to do everything by the book, I'd end up not bothering at all. It's surprising what works when you don't follow the rules all the time.

Scooterbug

I didn't know it deterred ants as well ... useful tip thanks!

Okay people, where are the recipes for using chamomile tea and cinnamon? How much, when, where, etc.? {:^)

Serve warm with a little honey

LOL NoH2O, me and recipes don't go together, just brew up a cup of camomile as normal, let it cool (or just add cold water, then water the plants with it. I just sprinkle the cinnamon all over the soil in the pot.

LOL Scooterbug!

Okay, Baa, I will just wing it. BTW, what's for dinner tonight?

Okay the peat and jiffy pots are out of here. This summer I tried using some of the margarine containers, etc. and they worked great outside where I had lots of room, but I am going to be confined to two sets of shelves and I think the regular trays will fit together better. I have been saving them and friends save them for me so I will not have to buy very many. At this point I am trying to figure out how many I actually can fit on the shelves.
Badseed I need to know if that is three single lights on those shelves or three doubles. Those are the types of shelves I have been looking at. I have all ready purchased 3 sets of double lights that I found and am trying to figure out how many more I need to get.
I have 2 small fans to use to help with air circulation and am hoping that will be enough.
Thanks for the name of the fungicide I am sure the better nursery here will have it I will call tomorrow and find out. Thanks for the links NoH2O Tom Clothier I am familiar with and a big fan of the other two I will have fun checking out this evening.
Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the help and the humor!

Alice, when the seedlings first start out, two lights is sufficient, two-two bulb fixtures. But as the seedlings get a bit taller, you are going to have to have three fixtures or they are going to start leaning. You end up with too much space between the bulbs with two.

My list of supplies:

*Soiless starter mix (sterilized)
*Sterilized starter trays & 6-cell packs
*Coarse sand (rinsed and sterilized)
*11x22" Flats (without holes)
*Domed lids for flats
*Clean spray bottle filled with water
*Plant stand with fluorescent cool white bulbs
*Prepared schedule for sowing based on your date to set out

My method is pretty much the same as Badseed, except I use the plastic dome lids when I put the flats under the lights. The dome acts as a mini-greenhouse, and watering is less intensive.

At first, I just spray the inside of the dome lids and let the lid 'rain' onto the starter surface.
I don't water from the bottom until the plants gain enough size to require it. At first, I just spray the inside of the dome lids and let the lid 'rain' onto the starter surface.

I add enough water to the starter mix to give it enough consistancy to handle, let it sit to absorb it, then go back to plant in an hour or so. I try to have at least 1.5-2" of starter mix in the containers so that the seedlings can stretch a bit while they are developing. You can use the bottom of another container to pat down the surface for an even sowing area before you sow. Before I sow the seed, I spray this surface down with water so the seeds adhere to the surface.

I begin with small starter trays in which I broadcast seed. I mix sand with the tiny seeds to get even distribution. I also put a bit of course sand over the seeds that are not supposed to be covered. The light can get in, but the seeds stay put. Do not over-sow the seed. Be sparing. Too many seeds mean crowding and encourage the dampening off, as well as spindly plants.

I add enough water to the starter mix to give it enough consistancy to handle, let it sit to absorb it, then go back to plant in an hour or so. I try to have at least 1.5-2" of starter mix in the containers so that the seedlings can stretch a bit while they are developing.

Once the seedlings are up and running, wait until they get their first 'true' leaves before attempting transplanting. The seedlings don't need nutrients before this period because they live off the cotyledons (sp?)(first little round leaves) in the beginning.

I would suggest doing a test run with an easy plant, such as viola. You could plant some of those and 'practice' with them. The little seedlings are easy to transplant, easy to identify, and generally pretty hardy.

Worrying the little seedlings out of the starter mix and transplanting them into cellpacks is a learning experience in itself! It is very important to not touch the stems of tiny seedlings. Lift them by their cotyledons.

This message was edited Nov 8, 2003 10:27 PM

Thanks so much Weezin
What great tips. I bet part of my problem has been in touching the stems. I didn't realize I shouldn't do that.
Alice

Grab the little buggers by their cotyledons and you can't go wrong, aknapp. At first, it is really difficult to not touch the stems, but after killing a few, you learn that stems are off limits.

Generally, I use an old pen to make a hole in the soil, then 'worry' the seedlings out (don't pull). Once freed, hold them over the hole and lower them in. The key is to be gentle and not force anything. Seedlings are pretty vulnerable at first.

Also, I'd suggest letting your starter medium dry out a bit before transplanting. The root systems come out much easier that way.

This is an interesting topic. What do you mean Weezingreens by "worrying" the seedings out?
Thanks,
Ep

Old fashioned word means something like.. [applied to this subject] ... jiggling, tickling, gently wiggling and lifting until the seedling comes loose. It's hard to describe.
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Thanks Weezin and Scooterbug

I kinda thought thats what it meant but glad to be sure. Good tip about having the soil a little dryer hadn't thought of that either.
Alice

Weez,
.. I like your idea of spraying inside the domes and since I just got some seedling flats with dome covers I will be using your idea,
Thanks, shirley
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Thanks, Scooterbug. I hope it works as well for you as it does for me.

I found this forum topic a bit late, but wanted to add a couple of comments. I too start my seeds in a small (reused, sterilized with 10% bleach) shallow container, then transplant (when the first true leaves appear) to individual pots. I tenderly remove the entire soil/seedling mass to a tray, then tease the small seedlings apart with an old fork. I use a good commercial potting soil like Miracle Gro or Shultz , then cover that with 1/4 to 1/2 inch of Jiffy Mix for sterility and drainage when I sow. I water the flat before I sow, then gently spray or drizzle a little more on top if needed after covering the seeds. But to get to the point I wanted to make...Be sure to learn the correct temperature range for germination. I have started Oriental poppies and Blackberry lilies at 50 to 60 degrees, while Bananas and other tropicals require about 85 degrees F. Some require freezing, or stratification. Most prefer about 70-75 degrees F. I usually refer to Park Seed's catalog, they have a couple of pages that give germination info in every issue. For starting the warmth lovers, I try to place my sowed container in a plastic bag, then place it over a heat source like my hot water heater or kitchen sink light (in the cabinet above) and check it daily for sprouts. Move to light and take off the plastic at that point. Don't forget to use a fan for circulation, not too strong, just some air movement to discourage fungi and encourage strong stems. Take your time hardening off the seedlings before planting outside (gradually increase their exposure to sun and wind over a 10 day period). Good Luck!