Would someone please explain in simplest terms whether the common, annual larkspur is Genus Consolida or Delphinium. It seems t/b listed as either or.
I wasn't sure where to put this post.
Consolida or Delphinium
Swallowtail Seeds ,T &M use Consolida for Annual Larkspur, and Delphinium for the perennials.
Annie's Annuals uses Larkspur and Delphinium in the same way
No one seems to list anything under Consolida, but some put it in small print under Larkspur.
Everyone seems to call Larkspur 'Delphiniums' as well, but never just that, always with the word Larkspur or Annual added to it.
When I Google Consolida plants, Larkspur comes up.
The experts seem to love to confuse us with new nomenclature for familiar plants. It's a wonder anyone gets anything straight!
Thanks Pam. I am trying to enter all of my seeds and plants with the correct Genus and species. It's a headache! I couldn't decide to list Larkspur Genus as Consolida or Delphinium. When I google it, it comes up usually as Consolida. When I wikkipedia, it came up under Delphinium with a mention of Consolida. Thus, my confusion. I never hear anyone refer to it as Consilda. To me, it has the same characteristics as Delphinium. So, for now I guess I will put it as Genus: Delphinium.
I have a pkg. of seed I purchased locally that states it this way: it's a mix of:
"A blend of Larkspur species:
D. ambigua
D. ajacis
D. regalis
D. yunnanense"
I've seen ajacis listed as a perennial Delphinium. Your mix may include both annuals and perennials. Also, the perennials are known to be finicky, so are grown by some as annuals, adding to the confusion.
Larkspur is used as a common name for both annuals and perennials. That's the problem with common names. Consolida seems only to be used in connection with annuals, so I would think it's more accurate to use that.
Annual Larkspur foliage is lacier than Delphinium foliage, and the bloom spikes are smaller, according to what I've read.
I had the same problem with Campanulas and Symphyandra. To me the bell-shaped ones, for example Campanula Cherry Bells, looks exactly like my white Symphyandra. Beats me...
Ok....My 1100 page reference book (shown below), weighing in at 20 lbs, (so it must be right..lol)...Say: Delphinium consolida (see Consolida (LARKSPUR)). So botanically it's a delph. first and subdivided to Consolida.
Consolida lists ajacis and ambigua(see ajacis), both annual. Didn't list regalis or yunnanense tho in either heading.
So most of the annuals are listed as Consolida tho not all....want me to confuse you some more...lol.
Delphuinium requienii is listed as a delph tho an annual or biennial, (I got seed in the rare seed trade last fall so am trying now).
Delphinium grandiflorum or (chinese) is listed as a short lived perenn. or grow as an annual, have grown them in the garden and they do reseed, tho growing more under lights at the moment. LOL...See even the experts have a time of it classifying plants.
Birder..do you remember last spring the gal from New Zeland, wanna say dowdeswell (think that's it. anyway she is a hybridizer and sent samples to those that asked (mine are growing now),if still wanting some more info she might be able to help.
Pix:The American Horticultural Society A-Z Encyclpedia of Plants
Pix...how bad is that ...I have to cage mine from the deer
By any name, sooooo beautiful! People around my area say they don't do well for us, don't know why, maybe the humidity? I haven't tried to find out.
Yes, Kathy, so beautiful. I don't grow Delphinium. It's too hot and humid here.
Thanks for the information on the American Horticulture Society book.
I guess I will change the name from Delphinium to Consolida.
That's a nice wire cage. Where did you find it?
LOL...I make cages out of wire fencing....thinking it was 36 or maybe 48", they sell in rolls at Home Depot for around $20, probably less, and they are 10-20ft in length. Might even be longer than that....It's been years since I've bought any, also use it to make Peony cages, for floppers.. Use wire cutters to snip off a section and if need be I cut out in between wire to make pins to sink into the ground..hope that make sense.... There are various sizes available from chicken wire (1") to fencing up to 2" wide squares. Remember if you try it, get a size the you can fit your hand into in case you need to do some weeding or deadheading, lol, sometimes you find these things out the wrong way!!! And if I need to make it stable cuz it's tall, I use pieces of rebar that has been cut into length (2,4,6ft sections, again Home Depot, from $2-$6 or get a 20ft er and use a hacksaw) Rebar is located in the section with cement and concrete products. Lol. I even use rebar wire for my fencing, think it comes in a roll 200ft for less than $4. It's amazing for what you can find on the cheap if needed.....
Pix: Have wired 10ft lenghts of rebar to t-posts and strung rebar wire at 18" intervals, 'spose to keep the deer from jumpng, lol, but added a second fence (which they are suppose to hate) and have run electric fence wire (not up in pix but is hooked to the yellow thingies. The open dirt area in between the two now has Iris g. which the deer never bother. It's amazing what you'll do just to have some flowers!!! LOL.
What's iris g? In my experience they eat the buds just as they are about to open on TBI's and Siberians...
Kathy, I nominate you for Woman of the Year on this Website. You have planted so many trees, shrubs, plants, started so many flowers from seed and now, I see you are making your own supports and cages! My goodness!!
We have used coated fencing to make some supports-mostly for vines. It works well.
Now see, I need to make some of those for my vines.....Lol... Not super woman, just determined!!!! If I don't do it, it will never happen....and I figure I got the will power and determination to do it....All I have to do is remember how long it takes to get things matured, gets me going everytime...lol. I wanna sit back in a few years and truely enjoy what I've done...I'm not getting any younger....lol. Not only that , after a few back injuries and such, I have found it helps keep me young, atleast in spirit, ya and limber also.... That's when I first got into gardening, after a back injury....was told just to keep moving and stretching, gardening is some of the best cardio that their is, walking, bending, leaning, digging. Wished I was as accomplished at the other things I should be doing...LOL.... Gardening's more fun with such beautiful results.....
Pam.....Iris g.= Iris germanica = TBI's, (sorry, old school sometimes...)
Yeah, snow in the forcast for tomorrow night and this weekend, depends on which path it takes this weekend, either a few inches or we get dumped on....I voting for the latter........I need a good snow in...
Pix: Iris g. Edith Wolford I believe, what a beauty!!!! Gosh I hope that's right....
So neat and tidy looking! really pretty place.
LOL...........OH MY...................... if you could see all the weeds out there...sorry had to laugh... Yes, thankyou!!! Ok, I'll remember my mannors....
Some early spring bloom
Pix 1 just a section of the border
Pix 2 left side of my 100ft border, west side
Pix 3 right side of my 100ft border, east side.....early spring (mid to late May)
Some very pretty established gardens Kathy.
Thanks pat, been working on it for a few years...More than 90% was grown from seed....with the exception of the Iris, trees, shrubs, roses...you know..those things that would take forever from seed. But my flowers are mostly from seed.
This year's batch of babies is well on it's way....
Kathy, like those little pots. What system is that? And, I am assuming all seeds have been started indoors under lights? vs. Winter Sowing? What about heat? And do you use a thermostat?
I am Really Cutting Back this yr. with seeds. I have had way too many in the past. I am focusing a lot on moving plants around this year and using them to a better advantage. I am trying Not to get too many seeds going this year.
Great crop of seedlings, Kathy.
50 degrees today and night s/b 35--not bad.
I don't have patience for seeds, it would easier on my pocket book but who knows... one of these days? LOL
Birder...They are 21/2" pots. Not a system...or maybe I should claim as mine....lol. No bottom heat other than the lights from the shelf below. I just sprinkle seed on top of my homemade peat and peralite mix and top off with vermiculite if needed to cover seeds or just a light sprinkle just to let me know I've got seeds in the pot. Spray with water to dampen just the top of the pot. Nothing special other than use a clear plastic dome to cover the seeded pots til germination takes place. I usually wait til most of the seeds have sprouted before removing them to an open tray. Then is when I give the pot a good drink of water, making sure they are completely dampened all the way down.
Never done the winter sow method, not sure I would remember to keep track of them!! Nope on the thermostat other than the one on my house heater..lol. Daytime I keep it about 65-67*, daytime and drop the temp. back to 50-55* at night, (love my waterbed)....lol. Most of the time in the winter I open the blinds and let the sunshine warm the house for me..on cloudy days on go the extra layers..
Pat...lol. yes it definately is less expensive......but soo many goodies that can't be bought cuz they aren't available at the nurseries or box stores can be grown from seed......... And once you try growing from seed and realize how rewarding it is to see babies growing.....and then you can say "I did that myself and that is easy, gosh this is fun!!!!" When you get to that stage your hooked!!!!! I started one tray (72), of Johnny-Jump-Ups (2 packets of seed), and have let my babies reseed themselves. Now I have hundreds and hundreds of plants all for less than $5... Gosh this fun!!!!!
Soooooo pretty Kathy, I'll have to try those! I used to have them at another house.
Kathy, So many questions!
1. Are you using meat trays to set your 2 1/2" pots in.
2. What is "your" mix of peat and perlite? Half and Half?
3. Are you keeping this Light & Shelf apparatus in your house or your basement or unused room with tile floor? Water would ruin carpet or wood floors.
4. You don't moisten the soil before sowing seed?
5. Where do you get the 2 1/2" pots?
6. What do you use for domes?
7. You water baby seedlings from the top? I usually water from the bottom for fear of drowning the little guys.
I think I may try your method vs. WS. I am tired of having milk jugs all over the place and then, picking the seedlings out of milk jugs. WS takes more room and more soil.
Sorry, I have so many questions.
I use the standard 11x22" trays available from Walmart, Lowes. I'm thinking Burpee has them for those disks. Not sure what they have available this year tho....Actually I prefer to buy mine from one of several nurseries that carry them as they have staight open trays and the dome for less $$$ the the box stores. I use 21/2" pots for seeding just about every thing.... I use to use 6 pack trays (72), when I first began but much easier to control things in the larger pot, ie. watering. I use baled peatmoss, buying it at Home Depot for less than $12 for 3 cb ft. I break it up and put in a plastic tub with a lid (H. D. for around $5). After breaking the peat up to a fine consistency I add peralite. Nope, not half, much less than that...but I do eye ball it..think of a plant youv'e bought and at what the soli looked like, some white peralite. It's just enough to keep things from packing into a brick, it's meant for airation.
Back bedroom, and have put down a tarp for a few months. Am also careful about what I do and vacuum constantly...lol. Where I get my pots..some of the nurseries sell them. I think I paid .10 each this year...32 fit into a standard tray. I also look into the recycle bin at one nursery I use cuz they recycle any plastic from the nursery and accept from others also. Sooooo, I go raid the trash for more pots. I figure I am recycling!!! LOL... These bins are outside so they are easy to get to and dig around. I have many different sized pots and trays. From 6 packs, 4 packs, 2 packs, 21/2", 4", 6", 10", 12", to various sized plug trays they get baby plants in 96, 104 and 144. Also love it when I can find inserts for 21/2" pots, a tray that fits into the open tray and individual slots for 32 pots.. When I get home later will have to get you a few pix so much easier to understand.
When starting my seedlings I just use a spray bottle... sow my seeds in the pot (adding vermiculite if necessary) and then spray enough to dampen just the top layer of the soil... put in tray under the dome. I usually mist 1 or 2 times a day, just to keep soil on top damp.... Germination is usually rather quick tho not on all. After my babies are up and most in the pot are germinated I removed them to another tray. They get watered all the way down with warm water, put into open tray where they are placed close to the lights and misted several times a day and watered usually once a day. When old enough I take them out of their almost dry (deffinately NOT wet pot). Gently tease them apart and pot on as small group to attain more size or individual pots.
Ya...almost always water from the top, just am careful, also one thing about misting them it toughens them up a bit. Same with watering them, am careful and water to the sides, when they toughen up a bit I just water however...lol.
And questions not a problem....if you have more ask!! I can only share ideas that have worked for me...lol... Now when your ready for stand ideas....lol.
Kathy, thanks for the quick reply and info. I would love to see some pictures.
"Also love it when I can find inserts for 2 1/2" pots, a tray that fits into the open tray and individual slots for 32 pots."
1. Inserts? what are those?
2. A tray that fits into the open tray? I don't follow you.
3. And individual slots for 32 pots??
And yes, I would like to hear about your stand Ideas!
Pix 1: open 11x22" tray, have seen from $.99-3.99 per..look around for the least $$.
Pix 2: insert that holds 2 1/2" pots (32), you are avaiable to buy, some nurseries sell them, some catalogs with growing supplies, mine I like to get from dumpster diving..lol.
Pix 3: tray with insert and dome, (domes $1.99-2.99 ish) help hold humidity in while sprouting seed.
Pix 4: tray with dome off
Pix 5: one of the other sized inserts that I have for the open trays. I like to use these when I have numerous of the same plant, (these are Delphinium grandiflorum Chinensis, (dwarf delphs at 12-18", bloom all summer and reseed, they are in a tray of 144 plugs. Later I will pot them onto 2 1/2" pots, breaking up the rootball, place them under lights a few more days and then outside in a covered plastic area (unheated), haven't decided which area I will use this season...Probably in March sometime. If need be I have several frost blankets to cover them over night when the temps are low, and then off during the day as it gets quite warm when the sun is shinning. I will do this with most any of my seedling perenns that can handle the cooler temps. Such as: Dianthus, Daisies, Veronicas, Aquilegias, etc., anything pretty much that begins blooming early in the season I figure can take the cooler temps at night.
Pix 1: open aired tray of seedlings, most ready to begin the transplanting into individual pots or cells.
Pix 2: pot of Nicotiana sylvestris, these little babies are extrodinary, the seed is just dust and by the end of the growing season will top out at 5-6+ ft each! And the fragrance is equisite!!!! I have 3 pots that look like this, lol...ya think I got a few? LOL. Will be using them as filler this year inbetween smaller perenns. this season.
Pix 3: Another of those pots I need to get into plug trays, remember I have various sizes...32, 64, 96, 104, 144. Love dumpster diving... I may just divide the pot into 4-6 sections and repot into a 2 1/2", for a week or so to get some size and then into something else. These will definately get haircuts along the way, don't want them to tall and spindly. This is Monarda Lambada, sometimes they make thru the winter, Z6+ for hardiness.
Pix 4: My stand that I have set up now (4 shelves and the floor area), it can hold 7 1/2 trays per shelf, and I can also set up lights for the floor area, so that's 35 standard 11x22" trays, and half trays which can hold 16 plants in 2 1/2" pots, so if just using 2 1/2" pots I can place a grand total of 240 per shelf and X 5 thats a whopping 1200 pots or plants. Now if I use different sizes...lol, I'll let you do the math......lol.
Pix 5: Just got these at Ikea this morning....$9.99 each (reg $29.99). They (4) are almost 5 ft tall bookshelves that I plan on making into another grow unit. Haven't quite got all the things figured out yet but give me a few days..lol.
This message was edited Feb 18, 2013 11:59 AM
Here are the written instructions for the stand if you'ld like to make one. and pix of the sections along with the final stand. Just add lights, shelving, (I use thin pressed plywood) to lay on each shelf to set trays onto. I got the origonal plans from Fine Gardening magazine more than 15 years ago, tried to find again on their website to no avail, so I drew up plans as best I could....lol. Don't laugh too much it works!!!! Each shelf gets 2, 4ft shop lights from chains or cuphooks placed on a 1x2, placed on shelf and then particle board shelf on top. so there ya are...my set up.
Pix 3: left has the actual shelf unit. To the right is one of the end units.
Pix 4 is a shelf unit
Whole thing is probably about $100 worth of lumber, but I'm just guessing. Shop lights are now about $12 ea at Home Depot, and bulbs are about $2-8 each. Depends if you go with a warm and a cool or all cool. Grow light bulbs are even more $$. I pretty much use all cool, (cheaper)
Kathy, you make me laugh, lol! You're like me, just a little more, just a little more, just a little more.... Except you are me times 1,000... If it weren't for DH, trying not to let him notice how much stuff I have crammed into that space, I'd have every free wall and window in the house for plants. Of course then I'd have the problem of transporting all the babies to the country in the spring... I'd need a moving van, lol!
I can't wait to see how you end up using the new shelving units. You'll probably end up with enough material to plant another acre or two this summer...
Ya...lol, wanna help!? Who knows, I might try and sell some this year. Depends on how big I can get them....And remember my backyard space yet to be filled is MUCH bigger than my existing border!
Second haircut on my Dianthus..lol. Potting on a few things, mostly dividing into more pots today. Still have to go thru my new batch of seeds to see what gets started next....
Or put hubby on the bumper..lol
Lol... I don't think he'd go for that!
I bet you could sell some if you could get the word out!
Thanks Kathy for All the Time and All the Pictures and Instructions. I think I am going to try your method this year. I tend to get too many plants in milk jugs. Surely, a small pot won't produce as many seeds! :)
I think I understand per your good pictures and directions.
I thought about selling all of my stuff last year, but didn't. I ended up not having enough pots to put all of my plants in to sell to people. For me, I used 32 oz styrofoam soda cups cut down from the top and holes punched in the bottoms. I didn't think people would want to buy my plants in styrofoam pots.
I didn't write up the info on the end unit... Cut (2"x2") ( make two end units), to fit your ceiling, minus a few inches, or however tall you want your unt. I also cut pieces of 2x2's for braces, see pix 3 above, these will determine how wide your unit is..Hope that's clear. I would draw up on paper just to make sure before you cut everything.....
OK, I've got what is probably a dumb question, but I'd rather show it & pay later than ask now & save my babies. This is the first year I've started seeds myself. I have purchased one little tray with plugs, and a handy little dome to cover it all.
The instructions told me to pour in six cups of water to rehydrate the plugs to their correct size, then plant the seeds. Due to activity going on in the house, I didn't get beyond the "pour water to rehydrate" stage for two weeks, then this past Monday I planted the little seeds. There is standing water in it - below the surface of the seed starter material, but still .... should I pour that off, please? Thanks so much~
Yes!!!! Pour it off and then keep an eye on your pots, misting will keep them moist, but don't let them sit in standing water.
:) Great, and thanks so much for a quick reply! I'm livin' & learnin', for sure.
Hey Barb, come on over to the Gemination thread, we are dicussing info on these types of things and soo many more too., (Pgf) started the thread.
Kathy, would you help me out, please? I'm new here, and darned if I can't find the germination thread~~ I think I need a yellow brick road or something! :(
Barb, forgive me I don't know how to paste it here but here are the directions...
Top of page, click Communities
Then click Discussion Forums, scroll down list to General
Then scroll to Seed Germination, scroll to thread "Starting Seeds for 2013, Part 2"
Gosh, I hope I did that right...lol. If not maybe someone else who sees this can paste it for us....See you there and feel free to just jump in to the discussions......
Here's the direct link to the thread:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1298942/
Once you get to it, at the top click on Watch Thread, then every time someone posts you'll get a reminder when you log on.
Kathy et al, when you're on a thread, if you go to the address bar in your browser, click on it, then Select All, then Copy, you can paste into another post in another thread. Anyway, that's what I just did to get the link.
Happy gardening, All are welcome!
Pam
Many thanks to both of you, as I'm in dire need of education on germination! I've got five apple tree seedlings that are cute as a button, but they're spindly and falling over, and I"m not sure where to go at this point. I'll bet I can find out on that thread! Thanks so much again!
I was going to attach a picture of them in their little makeshift greenhouse (I love the many uses for the plastic zippered curtain packages!) buy my phone's battery is too low to cooperate. It's neither here nor there, but I am proud of them! I mean, really, it's future deer food (they think)! I'll be off to the new thread now .... thanks!
Hey pam, thanks for the info....lol....but I don't know how to use it. Come now...be nice...quit laughing at me! Followed you up to Copy then got lost...I'm hopeless. You'll just have to follow me around I guess...lol.