Aug. 2011 dry and hot, like July still!

Hi all!

Hehe! Possum terriers! You're new dog must be pretty brave, it can't be much bigger than a possum, Crit!

Does anybody know how to get wasps out of a plant they have a nest in? I need to put that Dwarf Alberta Spruce in a larger pot soon. Something is causing it to go brown in a few places and I thot I'd try a bigger pot first. I really like that D.A.B., I bought it when it was little as a "Living Christmas Tree" at Walmart for about $3, 7 years ago. Now, it's much bigger, it's about a $20 D.A.B.!
I'm thinking about trying my luck at making it a topiary, maybe a spiral, but first I need to get rid of wasps. I tried spraying them with a hard spray of hose water, that brought them out and some flew off, but they come back. I'm lucky I haven't been stung, initially I picked that planter up and moved it so I could paint the outside wall, thats when I found out it was full of wasps! How about Raid in an aerosol can, would that harm the D.A.B.?
Will

I shouldn't harm the plant. I would try it. Read the can to be sure though. It will tell you if it hurts plants.

Cute, cute dog.
We rec'd some rain also. So nice. We're at least able to pull most of the weeds from roots.
Voles are hard to get rid of. I saw one this spring scampering around my S. Iris. I have read that fritillarias discourage them. They don't like the scent. (neither do we!) But, maybe that's just for moles. I would put kitty's food over there. I read it would be good to get rid of the mulch and clear the area around your lilies. Right, who wants to do that?
Well, we have commenced on re-staining our cedar deck. We have to do it about every two years. It's a pain.

Birder, I did clean everything away the best I could and that is how I found the holes of the voles. The lilies are no more, they ate them completely. I now see a hole in front of my rose bush. I fed the cat out there last night hoping the cat would be interested in the holes or stumple onto a vole.

Yes Crit Ginger does bloom, beautiful butterfly looking blooms that smell wonderful. " things that bloom might need more sun but the majority of my stuff gets very little sun", which includes gingers, orchids, but must most blooming things require more sun than shade. Did I make that more confusing...rofl.

I found an old can of Raid Yard Guard here. The can didn't say, but I Googled it and I read that it doesn't hurt plants. I'm pretty sure it worked, 2 of them stumbled out and died and the other wasps flew off, they would fly around and land on the outside of it but they didn't go back in, I think they gave up. I will pot it up to a bigger pot soon I hope.

Here is that Dragonfly again, watching me paint I guess! Here it is landed on the end of an onion, so I got photos of it.
Will

Dag nab it Will, I drove to the house and figured out I left the plants on the counter!!!!! Well they are doing good and will keep them for you. I will probably be going thru Indp. next week....dang I can't believe I did that. I kept telling myself to put them in the car and I thought I had but...... pretty normal for me.

Happ, don't give it another thought. I do that too..hehe! Really, it'll keep, whenever you can is fine. I hope you didn't burn alot of gas on my account. Just about every time I leave to go somewhere I get to the car and I've forgotten something, my wallet, my keys, something I had to take, maybe I'll have everything but I get to the car and have to use the bathroom. Believe me, you're not alone!
Will

If I don't put the item in the car when I think of it, it doesn't happen!

Making Jambalya and Cornbread tonight. Ya'all wanna come on down? :)

Weather's great right now. Our patio table/chairs are down below our deck right now because we're in deck cleaning and staining mode. If I had them on the deck, I'd be out there with coffee in AM and dinner in evening.

I hurt my back working on the deck project so I am not able to pull weeds in this nice weather either. :(

We have so many projects lined up for fall.

BTW, please give me any info on re-seeding a yard. We have had so much Japanese Beetle larva damage this winter/spring. Our grass looks pretty bad. Weeds are growing, however.

Oh dear, I really got behind.

Happ, laughing, the bullfrog is about a foot and a half from DH's shins and on the bank left of the largest leaf.

No, I don't really do any geneology, but I do photograph the headstones of relatives and people I knew when I was a kid, so I can see the dates.

Rusty, I'll see you around.

Crit, I am so sorry. Polly was beautiful and you can see the intellegence and love in her eyes.

Will, mosquitos at the top means they are getting ready to hatch!!!!

The pond looks better all the time!

I love Cleome, and yep, they have little thorns on the stems.

I love the water trickle too. I think it's just loud enough!

The rose looks great in front of the arbor!

Love the little cardinal :o)

Happ, I love to be adopted by animals :o)

(((Aw Crit)))) Post as many pictures and share stories about her if you like. This is a very hard time for you :o(

Birder, I am glad you caught another raccoon! Just the fact that they can carry rabies is the best reason to get rid of them.

Yum, strawberry pie! I'll bet it was better then the tomato pie I made!

Oh Happ. To lose lilies is terrible!

Crit, love the mugshot, LOL!

Pepper, smiling over you being his playmate:o)

Will, awesome on the ligularias! They do like complete shade and water at their feet. They will wilt when it's hot, even if they are watered, but don't worry, it's their defense. They'll perk up overnight.

I just saw that commercial yesterday. It cracks me up every time!!

Happ, grinning over trying to coax the cat over by the voles!! I hope he goes and is a good hunter!

Crit, laughing over Bobbi. They are tenatious, brave, and won't let go once they have something. The rabbit chase cracked me up!!

Birder, your deck is going to look great! It will be so different to sit out there when it's done.

I hope you didn't hurt your bck too bad. I have been taking aspirin every morning before I start raking and shoveling dirt. I've been filling the wheelbarrow too full at times and have to watch my shoulders. So far I feel pretty good.

We are going to have to re-seed all the backfill along the new driveway. We will scratch seed in, in a couple of weeks if it's going to rain. Catching the rain is the best way to do it if you can. Otherwise, keep it wet!! Weeds will grow, but don't pull them out unless you can do it carefully. Otherwise too many surrounding grass seedlings will come up too.

Well, It's about time to go out and start moving more dirt. We need to get the last off the grass and into the newly empty spot in the garden.

Have a great day all!!

My sisters, niece, and I went to the fair so I was in Indep. to meet them and will be thru there this week to drop off something at my systers. Dang I went off and forgot my cell phone and went back to get it and still didn't notice the plants, I had it in my mind I put them in the car.... I leave things behind all the time which is why I thought I put them in the car....oh well they are fine and will get there sooner or later.

Going to weed some more today, the weather is amazing. Didn't get alot done yesterday but did play which was nice, can't work all the time.

Hi billyp! Yes, it HAS been awhile! I wrote you a dmail Aug. 5th that said, "Hi Sally", you never replied, but I saw you in another longtime thread of your's so I knew you was alright.
I just figgered either you loathed me and had enuff of my kind, or you just let my dmail slip by!

The Ligularias never wilted for me, billyp, (maybe they knew I'd panic!). One doesn't seem to grow as fast as the other one, but it hasn't wilted yet.

Oh, I wish I had a dollar for every time I got to my storage locker over the years and then realized I didn't have the key with me!

I found a use for an unused glider-bench frame, (the bench rotted and not replacing it), I'm going to hang 2 water bottles from it! I drilled holes all in it so it can water plants underneath it!
I just have to place the whole thing where I want it, I have a photo of the monstrosity below. -You know, I had to have my waterpond in the background..haha! That Tropicanna from Pepper only has one sprout now, unfortunately, we had some very strong wind the other day and one sprout got blown completely off. It's still very pretty, the one sprout that was left was bent way over but I straightened it back up, I'll be protecting it from storms from now on when I can.

Thanks billyp, that Rose seems to be thriving there by the arbor! Those Cleomes are really blooming, I'll have to get a pic of them later, they are blooming like there's no tomorrow!

I only fill my wheelbarrow about half full of whatever, I might look like a Pansy, (no offense to the flower, I have Pansies, it's just a saying!), but that's alright, I want a good back!
My wheelbarrow is pretty big, it says 6 cubic feet. If I filled it all the way up it would either fall over or I couldn't get far, and I've done both! Hehe.. better safe than sorry!

Haha! Billyp, that commercial is such a hoot! As a glasses wearer, I probably paid more attention to the commercial. I think I even got glasses from that place like 20 years ago! I liked seeing how much it costs now compared to 20 years ago. Actually, it seems to be the same price as then oddly enuff. In this economy alot of stuff is very reasonably priced. I don't think prices would be so good (in California for ex.), on alot of stuff!

Congrats on the new driveway billyp, it sounds really nice.
Thanks for the compliments on my water trickle and the solar bird billyp.

Oh dear, mosquitoes hatched out!? I hope my housemate doesn't read that, she'll come at me like a herd of housecats!

I hope you're back gets to feeling better, birder. I don't know anything about reseeding grass, altho, I have heard to seed grass in the Fall. Can anybody else agree with that, I'd hate to be wrong, but I've been wrong before! : )
Will

The banana is looking really good. Like the water idea, but you know with plastic you will also have a small outside greenhouse for early spring???? drapped over the structure. Course without supplemental heat not sure it could take a hard freeze, but should allow you to start tomatoes and stuff earlier.

Nice monstrosity there! lol Looks like it should work.

Happ's right. You can use the frame to make a greenhouse. Buy thicker plastic and it will work better. Won't be completely freeze proof but it will help tenders like the cannas that can handle some freezing.

Russian Sage and mums.

Thanks happ, that was my first Banana, I still haven't planted it yet, it's going by the pond I think. I have a total of three 'Basjoo's now, I planted the other two, 2 days ago, they are gonna be centerpieces of my someday "tropical spot" on the West side of the house.

Hmmm, great idea, I think there is a new roll of sheet plastic here, I might make that former swing-frame a makeshift greenhouse! Speaking of that Tropicanna, that thing is getting huge, see how tall it is in the photo? Notice there is only one sprout of Tropicanna in it? The other one got removed by the wind.

Thanks Crit, I hope it works. I hope it don't break and fall down under the weight of being full of water and smash my plants! I drilled a hole thru the neck of the bottle though to put the old chain thru, maybe that'll work.
Will

That's quite a bed of Sage and Mums, Pepper, that's neat, you got you're own Mums for this Fall!

Here's that "tropical side of the house", anyway that's the plan eventually, newly painted foundation and everything! I want to get one more Banana 'basjoo' to go in there while they're on sale.
I took apart the raised bed for a garden, nothing much grew there anyway! I did dig up the onions and potted them up in 2 pots because they are doing very well, my taste buds can attest to that!
I hate to cut down that big, mature, Rose-of-Sharon shrub but it's in there and kinda don't look right. My friend, (the homeowner) even said it was planted too close to the house, but that might not mean she'll let me cut it down. That thing rubs on my bedroom window at night when it's windy and it sometimes sounds like someone is trying to break in!

I'd like to devise some kind of wrap or netting, or build something out of thin wood, to put around the Banana plants for when they get bigger, to keep the leaves from shredding on windy days, any ideas? I'd like to have Elephant Ears and anything I can come up with in there too. I'll leave plenty of room to plant more stuff as I get it. Maybe I'll put lava rocks and some seashells on the ground there too!
Will

Here's that big Rose-of-Sharon. Boy, things can change fast, there was that wall before it got painted a few days ago!

Will, the only concern I would have with your 'monstrosity', is if the place where you drilled the holes to put the chain through will hold and not rip out when you fill the bottles. Water is heavy. 8 lbs per gallon. Hope it will work for you! The lava rock and sea shells sounds cool.
Also, on that rose of sharon, you could trim it down (below your bedroom window) and make a nice shorter bush out of it. You could then shape it however you wanted, as a tree, as a round bush, etc. (No, probably couldn't make a spiral out of it. lol) I just love them and hate to see one taken out. I'm having such trouble getting them to survive at my house and I don't know why. Seems everyone else around here has beautiful ones.

Hello everyone!

I doing good and get better that I went Dr's last week and took some x-ray for my lung and tailbone so got more medicines again for that..

The weather is getting cool and raining past last week and sure I feel great for good and hate the hot weather again for long time! lol...

My dogs is doing good and cranky!

I just clean up my raised beds and re-over on something is new that I try for 5 gallon with lid that I heard from someone doing for plant in gallons... I try this for next year...

I got babysitter for 2 months that my step-son's daughter that his girlfriend go to college...

Take care everyone and I might come to library once a week...

I looked up the definition of a Pansy yesterday to check out the flower, I didn't know it was slang for a quite derogatory saying. I didn't mean anything nasty, and I'm sorry for putting that out there. If I just edited it out up there, it still wouldn't look right to anybody that might have already read it.

Wow Crit, you're the only other person besides myself that says water weighs 8 lbs. a gallon! I'm saying "do I have to carry this grocery sack, it weighs 28 lbs.!". But, I hope those water bottles hold, I'll have to wait and see! They better hold, I've already taken 100,000 orders for my swing waterer!

I'll see about trimming that Rose-of-Sharon way down, maybe that'll do it. Haha.. I'd give you this one Crit, if I could dig it up and if it were mine!

Oh, there is 4 lava rocks here leftover from 70's landscaping and 2 bags of seashells. A friend went to a VA. beach a few years ago and got the 2 bags of them in 2002, her a bag and me a bag. I've been kicking them around ever since, I can't believe I might actually now have a use for the sentimental seashells!

Well, I'll be another year older Wednesday! Boy, how time flies!

Hi Rusty, nice to see you! You still have subscription, but you don't have a computer? I see, please do come and say hi sometimes when you can, I hope you're lung and tailbone heal up.
I'm no stranger to using a library computer either. I used one so much in 2008, looking for a job, I had the 14 digit library card memorized! I lost my card one time and they didn't believe I had it memorized!

Anybody want to see the Tropicanna closer up? It's in the photo below.
Will

Hi Rusty, glad things are going better, and really glad to hear from you. Being without a computer feels really isoloated now after being so use to having one and talking to all you good friends.

Nothing new from me, the voles are eating everything, the cat doesn't care, nor do the basset hounds! only me. Weeded like a crazy person yesterday and I have boxes to take home to put over the bare spots to try and keep things down for the rest of the summer, it is summer right? This isn't fall already is it? Very strange weather we are having.

I know!! I keep telling everyone that the weather is anything but normal for this month. Normally we are like Texas is right now. Dry and burning up. Instead we are almost like June. Too weird but I'm loving it!! I just need to find time and energy to get out there and get my garden weeded so I can be ready to plant radishes and carrots soon.

Hi Rusty!! Glad you are back!! I've used the library computer too before when my internet when down. There are times I couldn't even get in there due to all the kids and out of work people. But I did when I could. It was nice too cause at the time I still had dial up and the library was and is high speed.

happ: very "strange weather" but I will take it! It's so nice compared to the 99* with high heat index. So disgusting about the voles. I wish I had an answer.

Rusty: my husb. ordered a lap top computer for 250.00. He really likes it.

Brandywine viburnum (Viburnum nudum) is putting out beautiful white to pink berries right now. They will get rosy pink then, blue/black.
http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/Plant.asp?code=D495

Beautyberry (Callicarpa americana) is starting to develop their beautiful fuschia berries.
http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=CAAM2
I would take pictures, but its dark outside.

Went to my master gardener class and one of the guys had a snake in the house.....I know ewwwwwwwwww, but he read that you could put a mouse sticky tape down and catch the snake, it worked. So I was thinking since it is for mice would it work for voles? Now if it gets on the dog nose he won't be too happy, but it beats poison!

birder I love those bushes I have seen pics of them for years but for some reason never bought any. Beauty berry has been one of my all time favorites.

Yeah, all this rain is so nice! Anybody want to see my altered Tropicanna? It has more sprouts now than before. I think having a sprout blow off was the best thing for it! I think I counted four sprouts in that pot. It is going to be a planter full of Tropicannas! It is going in my "tropical spot" that I'm working on.
I've been given the go-ahead to cut down that Rose-of-Sharon, does anyone want a cutting or some? I think I'm going to try to grow cuttings myself. I like it, it's just in the wrong place.
I've read about they're propagation, they can be grown from cuttings. I'm not sure I understand why Plantfiles doesn't include propagating from cuttings - http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/788/
But, other sources have cuttings as a method - http://www.ehow.com/how_4863568_of-sharon-give-new-plants.html I didn't know until I was reading on it, that it is a Hibiscus. I think Hibiscus would be a good addition to a tropical area, but maybe there are more tropical looking Hibs with a bigger more tropical-looking flower. What also makes the Rose-of-Sharon neat is it is cold hardy here.

Nice Petunias and all there, Pepper. I have some similar to your's but mine are in an old Grape flat.
Will

Sorry to hear about the Voles eating you're plants happ. If there is a bright spot, at least it's toward the end of Summer. Nice plants Birder, Beautyberry has a beautiful berry!
Here is my Petunias in the old Grape flat. I think it's 2 big four packs of Whites and 4 - 6 packs of Pink ones. -

Will, look at dinner plate hibs. They are tropical looking and hardy. Very hardy in fact. Here is a site that has some for sale. Summer Storm would have been perfect for that spot. I may have to see if someone else has it. lol. Don't have a spot for it but I can make a spot for that beauty!!

http://www.gardenharvestsupply.com/ProductCart/pc/Potted-Hardy-Hibiscus-Rose-Mallow-Plants-for-Sale-c703.htm

Neat, thanks Pepper! I like that site, I might get 'Crown Jewels' and 'Fireball', I'd like to have one White and one Red. I like 'Kopper King' but it's sold out. They have reasonable prices too, I never thought tropical looking hibs came that big in flower. They say 'Fireball' has a 12 inch flower!
How about all these Cleome flowers by the Rose plant from happ?! Some of the Cleome flowers aren't even in bloom right now.
Will

Will, nice petunias. I need to cut my dark purple ones back so they will re-bloom for fall.
I have hardy hibiscus. It is white with a rosy pink center. It's native to Mo. and not a "dinner plate" flower, but nice. It re-seeds a little every year.
I also have one that is maroon and the blooms are huge, but it doesn't seem to multiply. I am thinking it is sterile?

Will, moonflowers (Ipomoea alba) look real tropical. I am referring to the plant not the vine. Vine is nice too, but the flowers on the plant are larger and quite fragrant. They open up in the evening. Of course, cannas are quite tropical looking also, but you do have to lift them in the fall. I used to have Canna 'The President'. My husb. was in the hosp. one year over Thanksgiving, and we forgot about them. We lost them. Really, daylilies look tropical too.

Thanks birder! I read Moonflowers are about zone 8 though. I might try my luck at growing them from seed anyway, they sound neat. I plan on having a couple more Cannas in planters and some Elephant Ears in planters, I'll need to take all those inside for the Winter.
I have a couple Daylily planters I can plant in there.
I'm thinking about making a little beach scene with sand, seashells and rocks, a little pump for "waves", maybe even driftwood on the side, maybe I'll make a lighthouse! I don't think I'll have pirate ships though! Oddly enuff driftwood is in no short supply here. My housemate's Sister mailed a bunch from VA. because she says it's art, Driftwood is like Gold to that Sister I think!
Maybe I'll even try to duplicate Beach Grass and a beach-like fence. I think I better go to bed!

I was just kidding about going to bed! Petunias bloom again in the Fall if you cut them back? That would be great! I was thinking they bloom in Spring and Summer and that's it, and say goodbye to they're annual show! I like Petunias, I want to get those candy striped ones or a swirly, multi-colored like flower, I forgot what it's called. I think I might see some in Pepper's pic up there.
Will

pepper ..... perty 'tunias. Mine always die off about this time of year. I have planters like that one too. ^_^

YES Corey, I would love some of your ROS!!! If there are some small sprouts around the base, you can dig them up too. They would already have roots and wouldn't have to worry about them rooting.
There may be some of the Moonflower plant seeds in the seed stash from me. If not, I have some that I can send to you. They are a beautiful bush during the day when they are not blooming. They reseed themselves and if you don't want the seed, just pluck the bloom before the pod starts to develop. Mine here in zone 7a came back from the original plant from last year.

Patti

I have a cousin named Corey. Maybe you were talking to someone else, or it might be a simple misunderstanding, I'm Will if you meant me.
If you were talking to me, I'd be glad to do that if Corey don't come thru with them! : ) I've been around the ROS base quite a bit during painting,
and well, just skulking around, I didn't see any seedlings. I bet you meant someone else,
you're talking about a seed stash with Moonflower seeds in it maybe. Since it would be going from my zone (5b) to your's (7a) there might not be much of a problem. If you were talking to me, just dmail me you're address and I can send you some cuttings.

I got out there a while ago and got some photos, I didn't see any seedlings at it's base. I hate to remove such an old, big pretty Rose-of-Sharon
but it's entirely in the wrong place but it's about 20 feet tall. You also get poked when you have to walk around the corner. Would it look okay you think if I just pruned
it hard, I mean way down, around only 4 feet tall? All that green at it's base is that nasty Bush Honeysuckle. We had it all over for many years
because the residents here thought it was so pretty. It was all ripped out about 4 years ago, but little ones pop up everywhere. It'd be easy to
tell the difference between them, underneath the ROS, because the leaves are quite a bit different. Is it just me, or is DG not working today?
It'll prolly be fixed when I post this, I wrote it the day I couldn't get on DG, all this is pasted, I saved this in Notepad. Other websites seem to open.
Will

This message was edited Aug 16, 2011 6:56 PM

Yeah, I like the prices on there too. They have the best that I've seen so far.

Well, I'm now doing research for work. I mentioned doing a Made in America sale and my boss loved it. I just need to present some facts for him that he can use in the ad and to present the idea to the owners too probably. Gonna be neat to see the finished product I think.

Crit, my petunias are usually dead this time of year too. First time I've ever gotten them to last this long!!

We have a bunch of MIO products. (Made in Oklahoma) They have billboards up advertising it.

Oh Will, I'm so sorry. I must of had Corey on my mind for some reason. lol Yes, I would love some of the ROS starts. I will send you some moonflower seeds if you want them.
I was thinking of Rick_Corey when I typed that. He is now our local FreeSeeds for NewBees person. lol I don't know why, buy I have almost typed stuff for him on you before, but caught myself before I sent it. ~blushing~ ^_^ I don't see ANY problem with you cutting the ROS down to 4' tall. I've seen a lot of them that people keep pruned to a small bush. I think it would be really pretty there.

Will, I have had my moonflowers return the following year. But, if they don't--not to worry. They will re-seed generously. They are not, however, hard to control. I like them. Do you have seed?
I usually cut my petunias back the last week in July or the first week in August to get a nice flush of bloom. I have done so with my window boxes for my deck, but haven't cut them back in the front of the house. I need to get going on this fall gardening chores. I need to collect snapdragon seed (Rocket series).

Think I read somewhere if you cut back ros you will get bigger blooms, wonder where I saw that? hummmmm.

Well not making it to Indep. this week Will but everything is fine. Plant are growing.

Boy I appreciate not having to water every night, except the stuff on the porch. I pulled weeds, put down cardboard, and mulched 4 bags full last night after work. I might actually have the garden looking ok when the master gardeners come over. Now not all the gardens but part of them...rofl. Hopefully I can get DH to put my post up for the pergole.

Anyone have grasshoppers? Bad enough I have the voles but now grasshoppers, I had them so bad one year they ate everything to the ground, you would walk across the grass and it was like it was raining grasshoppers, I don't want to see that again.

I think I will order those Hibs from them, I've bookmarked them. Unfortunately when I'm ordering, I expect that's when I'll find out the shipping charges, some places are quite proud of shipping and handling. But, the prices of the plants themselves from online places seem to be more reasonable, it's like they know people are turned off by "shipping" costs and it prolly hurts they're business, so they've came down, which is a good thing. The Made In America idea sounds good, Pepper, that's how people move up in a company. I was reading about who makes what when they dropped out of college and even the ceo of Carnival Cruise Lines started at the bottom in an entry level job.

We had Comcast internet put in today, it is much faster. The installer guy was a bit of a numbskull, he was an hour late, and he just leaves cords and stuff on the desk and where-ever. No regard for tucking things in or anything, "just hook them up!" I guess.

Oh, simple mistaken identity, Crit! Sure, I'd love to try some Moonflower seeds. Sure, I'd send you some ROS starts if I get any to start.
I don't have any Moonflower seed, birder. In the little warmer micro-climate of a yard here they might do like your's, come back the next year.

I may be trimming that ROS way down. The way it is, it just takes up so much precious yard, when you have an 80' by120' lot you need every inch! That really is neat that it's so hardy and pretty, but it's just in the wrong place.

Grasshoppers? Not me, but I've seen how they can wreck stuff. Ack! Voles AND Grasshoppers! Now I'm gonna have bad dreams about Voles and Grasshoppers! lol
Does putting down cardboard to fight weeds work for very long? Weed-block fabric is so expensive, it's around $19 for a 100' roll. That's okay happ, they'll keep, come when you can.

Here's that ROS, around the base. Those green things are the Honeysuckle Bush leftover seedlings.
Will



This message was edited Aug 17, 2011 5:36 PM

Will, cardboard will last longer than weed fabric and is better for the enviroment. Especially if you get thick cardbaord and not the skinny flimsy stuff.