Bromeliads for novices and addicts, June 2011

Hi Tash,

I just got word back from my friend on the name of your plant. I told him I suspected it was Vr Tachete Gold and he says:

"Hello Nev
You're better at this ID thing than what you give yourself credit for, it looks good to me, yellow spike with spots. Was commonly sold as platynema hybrid or more often as platynema Rosea."

It's not that I'm good at IDing things, it's just that I have the same plant in my garden with three nice pups, and no yours hasn't flowered yet, the flowers are still to come.

The pic below shows what the flowers are like.

All the best, Nev.

Thanks heaps Nev for the confirmed Id.Thanks for the photo too, now I know what to look out for. Hubby (Jason) will be very happy when he gets home to find out, 1, "it" has a name now and 2, it hasn't flowered yet :)
so you have one with 3 pups, how cool, I was presuming this one might be one of them ones that doesn't really give pups, just seeds??? How old is yours Nev, did you get it as a pup or grow it from seed? Next question for when it flowers.... is does this type of brom self pollinate? I don't have anything to cross it with and would be happy to just get seeds of what it is, instead of crossing it. I don't have any other Vriesea's with flower spikes at all.
Also Nev, do you have any tips for me on having a go at crossing two Neo's? I have two both flowering, and I'm thinking about trying to cross them tomorrow morning.... but of course I have never tried before, any advice on how to do it and what to use?
Thanks,
Tash

Wendy, the new Vriesea area looks fantastic. Can't wait to get around to see it. I'll have to drag Johnny around here for some inspiration when we get this pool mess cleaned up. Maybe a foliage vriesea bribe might work? Good buy with your Vriesea, Tash. Thanks for the advice about the seedlings, Nev. Your yard looks great. Thanks for sharing the photos, Sue. Can't wait for spring to get here with all of these inspiring photos. Jen

Hello all. Wow, Wendy, that new area does look good! Very clean and modern. Your place will be looking like Ray next. Is there any grass left?
Nice Vriesea, Tash. I thought it might have V. fosteriana as a parent, Wendy, because it also gets those spots and brown markings on the flower stem. Tash, Wendy's comment about it having fenestralis in it, meant she thought it might have V. fenestralis as one of the parents.
Thanks for those links Nev. It was Ross that taught us how to recognise the fosteriana influence in a Vreisea, and since then I've seen alot of its hybrids.
We've had some lovely sunny days this week already. I've been out looking at the broms and cant wait for spring. theres afew things ready to go into bigger pots, and some need breaking up and spreading around the garden. Still, I won't ask for it too soon, and just enjoy the respite from the weeds.
Sue

Thanks Sue for the explanation, I am really not up on plant terms or broms species names, otherwise I would of twigged what Wendy meant....
Glad to hear you are getting some sun shine and enjoying the garden, no good being stuck inside cause of rain.

Karen, a huge thanks for the seeds, they arrived today and I can't wait to try and get them started, thanks so much

Tash

Nev when you take those pups off that vrisea you mentioned can you put me down for one pup please. You'll have to let me know what you want in return or I'm happy to pay. That lovely yellow spike is a beauty.

Thanks for all the comments re the new area. It already looks so different now with shelves starting to appear in there. The last one should go in tomorrow and then the placing of the vriseas will finish it off.

Wendy

Hi everyone,

Tash – First let’s talk about your Vriesea. I don’t know if it self pollinates or not, but you could try and pollinate it by putting some of its own pollen on the female flower part yourself.

It's difficult to explain without a drawing so you need to get the drawing and print it out first so you can refer to it.

To get the drawing you need to go to "http://fcbs.org/ "

1. Select "Bromeliad Information" from the selection on the left.
2. Select "Hybridizing" from the information screen
3. Select "Notes for the hybridist" By Derek Butcher
4. Scroll down until you come to a "line drawing" of the flower parts, this will explain where the male and female parts are found.

When the flower opens, just get some of the yellow pollen from the stamen ("C" in the line drawing) on the end of a toothpick and place it on the stigma ("B" in the line drawing) when it is receptive. (You will know it’s receptive when there is a little drop of honey like fluid oozing from the end of it).

With your question about crossing two Neo's, it is much more difficult than on a Vriesea flower as the flowers are much smaller.

If you look carefully at the my little booklet, in particular pic's 3,4, and 5 and the accompanying text you will undersatnd what is required.

Most importantly, don't forget to identify the flowers you pollinate with tags or you won't know what's yours and what's been done by insects (like happened to me)

Have to go now

All the best, Nev.

Hi everyone, back again,

Wendy - There's a long story attached to that vriesea in the pic. I have another with identical foliage but the flower spike is very deep red and not yellow. I got them both at the same time and was told by the seller they were the same plant and without the flower, it certainly seemed that was the case.

They are both good reliable growers and puppers but the difference is the one with the red spike will pup for me before it flowers and the yellow one wont pup for me until after it has flowered. Unfortunalely I can't find the pic of the second one on flower but there is one on the BCR (albeit not a very good one) "http://botu07.bio.uu.nl/bcg/bcr/index.php?genus=VRIESEA&id=8562#8562"

Wendy, as the pups don't usually have any roots when they are removed, I'll wait until the weather warms up before I take any off as it's been pretty cold down here lately, but I'll certainly save you one.

All the best, Nev.

Thanks Nev for the extra info on pollination, I looked at them this morning and just kind of threw my hands up in the air, lol. The Neo flowers are so tiny, I can understand all that you have explained and the pictures, but ....they are soooooo tiny! ha ha ha.
The tooth pick thing is great, I poked it around and saw all the pollen sticking all over it, but i can't see the stigma under the stamens of the Neo flowers, is there a reason for that? do the stamens open further to reveal the stigma or does it just always hide underneath. And if it does just always hide underneath, how do i know when the stigma is receptive? You mention in your booklet about removing the stamens to prevent self pollination, how do you actually do that? I am worried i will rub the stamens on the stigma whilst trying to remove them and pollinate the stigma anyway. Does that even make sense? You also mentioned above about the stigma producing a little drop of honey when receptive, is that on Neo's as well? I have also been wondering for a week or two now, about the neo flowers, I have been watching mine flower (as it's the first i've seen do it) and does the same individual flower only open once? ie does the flower open in the morning and close later that day and never open again? And when that flower closes, is that what holds the little name tags you show in your booklet? Those little tags must be pretty small. Do they stay there right up until the seeds are ready? How long from pollination til you could expect seeds to be ready...roughly... on a Neo?
Sorry for all the questions.

Wendy, I have a question about one packet of seeds you sent me, I have planted them all now, but one packet only has "A.F Hyrid Narelle F3" on the envelope. I hate sounding super dumb... but I want to write on the container the right details for me to understand. Is Narelle the species? Do I presume that's a Neo?? and what's the F3? Oh and one of the other ones, just had Magenta on the front, is that a Neo too? sorry to ask silly questions and again a huge thanks for the seeds and surprises :)

Ok I think I have over done my quota or questions again today :)
Thanks heaps everyone
Tash


This message was edited Jun 20, 2011 6:36 PM

Just a shot of the little nursery, lol. All my seeds are in there now, got my fingers and toes crossed that they grow. Bit doubtful about those ebay seeds i got, they just keep going mouldy! But we'll see. Nev if they keep doing it, do i keep spraying the bleach mix, or should one spray have fixed the situation? Perhaps I didn't spray enough of it?
Loved the extensa seeds, nice and big compared to the vriesea seeds and really reminded me of my Desert Rose seeds.
I know I'm pushing my luck on questions today, but just one more, how long can I keep the left over seeds for or should I just use the whole lot as they don't keep well?? Most of the seeds, I used the lot, but ones like the Alcantarea Extensa I have quite a few, not sure how many, but quite a few left over. Not sure how many I am supposed to put in a container, just took a bit of a guess.
Thanks,
Tash

Tash, glad those seeds arrived. Nev, are yours there yet? Hope so. Wendy got hers OK too.

Have a vriesea out the front coming into flower. Nothing special, but glad to see it doing something. Some tills look as though they have buds too. I am so glad I have this forum to come to and see what you all have happening.

Karen

Tash the Narelle and magenta are both neos and both Alan Freeman hybrids. the first one he named after his wife Narelle. He did some very wonderful stuff mostly with concentrica hybrids. Unfortunately I don't have the parents of those two but I'm sure they would be registered and therefore on FCBS. his hybrid was called narelle. if you self pollinate this plant with its own pollen it then becomes narelle F2 meaning it is a second version of it. I'm not sure if selfing it again makes an F3. We have narelle and we have narelle F2.

I have attached a photo of neo narelle grown in full sun. The sun brings out some wonderful colours. This is one of our favourite neos.

Wendy

and this one is magenta. Remember that these are already hybrids so your seeds will come out as anything from its parentage. But you may get one just like one of these or even better. That is the fun of growing seeds from hybrids. It's like opening a package at Christmas. Every day when you have a look at your seedlings its like seeing something new every day.

Wendy

Jen are you coming around tomorrow to check out the new vrisea area and my new tillandsia wall???? We're just waiting for Barry from Peter's Glen to deliver a large shelf unit and we can place the vriseas and all will be complete. I took some more photos today but I've been banned from posting them cause he wants to see Jen's reaction when she sees it. I have to give him as much joy as possible at the moment because the poor darling has worked himself sick. He had such a restless night last night with a cough and sore throat, so he was very sluggish today. Didn't stop him cleaning out the shed and loading up the ute ready for a dump run. I've been told to clean out all my work stuff and dump that on the ute too. I guess I will cause I doubt that I will need it again. And I'm sure the tafe courses I was teaching have probably totally changed so my paperwork is so useless now. Yep I'll dump it all. Thanks for helping me make that decision. LOL

Wendy

Tash, the seeds you have that keep going mouldy, did you sow all of them or do you still have some left?

If there are some left, perhaps you could try another batch, but nuke the medium beforehand?

Pam

Tash- are your seeds rotting from to much humidity boxed and then in your plastic house? or do you mean the seeds are going mouldy before you put them in/plant them?

this one grew a new centre as i left the flower spike on. Do they usually continue growing from the same centre if you remove them?

Morning everyone,
thanks wendy for the photos, they look great, I can't wait to see what mine look like, how exciting in deed. thanks for explaining the seeds too, now i can make sure i have them all recorded properly :) I can't wait to see some signs of growth from all the trays i did yesterday, and don't worry you'll all know, cause i'll be writing on here as soon as i see some signs of life :)

I kept a couple of those seeds Pam, from the ebay ones, not too many, as i did 3 trays of them, but i could have another go. I followed Nev's instructions and nuked the conatiners for 5 mins and allowed them to cool before putting the seeds in, so I don't think it's the medium, but unless the seeds are just duds, or like Nev mentioned, maybe i had something on my hands, or ???? or perhaps they will still strike?

Breeindy, I don't think it's humidity, if it was summer then that would be a worry to me, I have only had the little plastic house a week and it does not get any sun on it, just light, and I keep checking it to see how hot it is etc, and checking they all look ok.

If none of these seeds take, then I know I'm doing something major wrong and will have to work out what it is. This is my first attempt at growing from seed, so we shall see. All I know is it's bloody cold this morning, even though it was only about 14 degrees, it's seems cold, fingers don't want to type, lol. I hope the overnight temps are not upsetting the seeds, otherwise I'll be bringing them all inside! LOL
Oh and Breeindy, that new center is new to me, but everything is new to me, lol. But I can't say I have seen that or heard of anyone mention it, amazing these bromeliads :)
Tash

Hi everyone

Tash – No the stamens on Neo’s don’t open up any more than they already are in the position where they cover the stigma. To clearly see the stigma you need to emasculate the flower by removing the stamens with a fine pair of forceps. Grasp each one at its base and lift it toward the outside of the flower and break it off or cut it off with small surgical scissors.

The fluid on the end of the stigma is there in Neo’s as well as other brom flowers; this is there to attract insects in the wild so they can pollinate the flower. In the case of Neo’s the best time is usually between 9.00am and 10.30am. With vrieseas of the type you recently bought it is usually receptive at around 9.00 pm at night. (In the wild these plants are usually pollinated by moths and small bats.)

When the flower closes, that’s it, it won’t open again and if pollination has been successful this is when the seed capsule starts to form. If it was pollinated by you or I the closing petals of the flowers will hold the small triangular tag in place until the seed capsule is eventually removed.

You ask how long from pollination to ripe seed. I honestly can’t tell you as I’ve never checked it, I just look until I can see the pod starting to form (if you look carefully at the base of the dead flowers in pic 7 in my booklet you can see this) and then test it every so often by gently pulling on it and when it’s ready it will come away easily (as in pic 8).

I gave a friend in USA who does a lot of hybridizing your question and this was her answer:
Ok Here is what I have observed about Neo seed. The smaller the plant the faster they ripen. Earliest has been 6 weeks. Now there is an exception I have observed. Species don't have a pattern no matter the size. Most ripen around 10 weeks but can go 16 weeks
Hope this is helpful.

So I guess you could say the answer is, roughly 6-16 weeks for Neo’s

As for your mouldy seeds, I find if they haven’t germinated in about three weeks they aren’t going to, and if nothing is showing after a month, I usually toss them.

You can give them a thorough soak with the Sodium Hypochlorite and if you think this makes the mix too wet, just tip the container at about a 60 degree angle and the excess water will gather at the lowest end and can be sucked up with a 25ml syringe (available at chemists for about $1)

Breeindy – That looks like a plant of Vr. Ospinae var gruberii to me and that new growth (which is a pup) will be just to the side of the centre of the main plant. This is the way that pups usually grow on these types of plants and they are awkward to remove as well; if you don’t want to take the chance of wrecking the plant, just leave it and the new pup will just take over and keep growing. Sometimes you can get what’s called “grass pups” growing from the main trunk of the plant, but that’s another topic all together and to find out more you could look at: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/bromeliad/msg0915213416331.html

Karen - Your seeds arrived this morning so there's another job I have to do. Thanks for thinking of me and I'll certainly keep you informed of the results. Perhaps all of us that got some seeds from Karen could make it an on-going project where every three months we post pic's of the results. It would be interesting to see how they respond in the different climates, what do you all think?

I think that’s about it for today, now back to my painting.

All the best, Nev.

thanks Nev for all that info, you have answered heaps of my questions :) I am so pleased to know a rough guide for the pollination to seed timeline, I knew somewhere I had read the flower spikes on the other varieties can take up to 12 months I think it was, so I was just curious to a rough time on Neo's. If you can thank your friend for me too that would be great.
i will have to check the date on the ebay seeds as it's on the container but not in the book beside me, but I think they have only been in there for about 2 weeks now, but i could be wrong. I do a have a few left so I guess if they don't work I will try and last little bit, won't blame the seller as it was probably something I did wrong, well maybe. Still hoping they might sprout.
What is the first sign you get that they have germinated? Is it just little green bits? LOL
Ok thanks heaps better go check that date and write it in my book now
Tash

Hi again everyone,

I addition to the answer my American friend gave and I posted previously, I thought it would be a good idea to post Tash's question about the length of time for Neo seed to reach maturity on the Bromeliad and Airplant Forum
"http://www.bromeliadforum.za.net/forum/index.php" and see what answers came back from other countries.

Below is the question and the responses:


Hi everyone,

I was asked the other day, "With Neo's, how long from the time of fertilisation until the seed is ripe?"

Although I've grown Neo's from seed, I didn't know the answer to this quesion, as I've never kept records of this. I just keep checking the capsules and when they pull out easily I reckon they're OK.

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure please?

Thank's in advance.

All the best, Nev.




Avane
South Africa
Nev, in my experience, different Neo species/hybrids have different times to ripen their seeds. The time of year also plays a part for us in the temperate regions of the world. Normally, when pollinated end of Spring/beginning of Summer, 2 to 4 months for me. Some mini's and some large ones are the fastest at about 2 months. Carolinae types are the slowest for me - from 6 to 9 months!! Now if you pollinate towards the end of Summer, they take much longer, sometimes twice as long.

Hope this helps!

Japie



Lisa
United States (Hawaii)
Nev, I second everything Japie has said, except that in our climate, the 2-4 month time frame is pretty standard all year round.



graykiwi
New Zealand

I third it Nev...Like Japie I'm also convinced the species involved has something to do with it. In past seasons I've done crosses all at the same time (ie; mid summer), some ripen in 9-12 weeks, others are still going now 6 months later and not showing signs of loosening up yet. All were grown under the same conditions, so it must be the plant genes / flower structures ?...Best way is to just 'keep on tuggin'...like you say !
Cheers
Graeme



splinter1804
Sr. Member

Hi everyone,

Thanks everyone for helping me out. I did tell the person who asked the question that I didn't know the answer but was pretty sure I could find out, and no sooner have I asked the question and I get three responses. What a great information tool this forum and the people on it really are.

Thank's again
All the best, Nev.

I hope this extra info helps explain that it depends on the plant and what the climate is.

All the best, Nev.

Thanks heaps for that Nev, that's fantastic. You are just too good :) I am really happy to have some idea about it all now, cause I was wondering if it was weeks, months etc, just so I can keep an eye on them, also explains to me about some of these broms we have acquired that have already flowered. I tell hubby to stop thinking they might have seeds in them, the flowers would be way too old, hence why the whole flower centre pulled out of the one hubby tugged on, it was old and rotten.
Thanks heaps Nev for all your help
Tash

gee it's been quiet in here this weekend. I've been unable to check in since Thursday and expected to see lots of new posts but not a one. Are we all on holidays or just Jen????? hahahah

Jen we're right for Thursday. I've organised our brom trip. How's the hole going? Getting it filled in yet? Johnny said it will probably keep dropping for the next few months as your soil settles. He says best thing is to put a shadehouse and a few shelves up and when it drops under the shelves, just fill with stone and keep topping up as it sinks.

Hi Wendy, yes it has been quiet. I haven't had a lot to comment on of late, and have been lurking and enjoying everyone elses comments.
Theres a few things flowering, or starting to flower here.
What about at everyone elses?
This is Aechmea 'Ensign' a cultivar of A. orlandiana
Sue

my bilbergia nutans seems to like it indoors...
one flower spike on the smaller pot & two from the bigger clump in the other pot...

ohhhhhhh did you miss all my questions ..... he he he he he :)
I can think of more I'm quite sure of that.

Ok I have a another question..... does anyone have a yellow brom forsale... something like a Neoregelia Kautskyi or anything with nice yellow foliage :)
Not as in that shade of yellow they go when dyinggggggggggg LOL :-p

Hope you all had a good weekend, we had a good one here.
Tash

Hi Tash. We have a neo called golden chalice which has same colouring as kautskyii but a much taller more cylindrical in shape than kautskyii. we are currently growing one in full sun, one in partial sun and one under shadecloth to see the different colours. I will have to put them all together and compare differences with a photo. I've just realised that I have never taken a photo of this plant so can't attach. You'll have to look it up if you want one.

Wendy

Hey Wendy, I had to google it, lol, VERY nice what I saw, wow weeee. I would love to see a photo of yours grown 3 different ways, it would be most interesting to see the difference. I would love to have one or even two of these, do you have any you would be willing to sell?
I spent a bit of time yesterday trying to find yellow ones (to work out their names), but when you have no idea what they are called it's hard to google them.

Tash

Tash, is the yellow brom for full sun or shade?

your right splinter about the name of my brom. I just didn't realise they pupped from there.

Hi Pam, I have space for full sun ...... shadecloth..... and morning sun....... so it doesn't worry me where it needs to be, so long as I know and put it in the right spot for it to keep/get it's colour. We are in the middle of building a small removable green house at the moment, so that's going to be pretty cool, thinking it might be a good place for my seedlings....if any of the seeds take :)
Then we have our full shade garden, then a full sun garden and then another one that only gets morning sun and then the palm trees shade it the rest of the day.
I got a few more broms yesterday, the lady had yellow ones but wouldn't part with them as she only had a couple.
I'll add a pic of a few of our new ones :)
Most have names, but a few of them don't. I have them away from all the others until they are right to be mixed in. Oh there is one more that isn't in that photo, I'll do another post and add it too :)
Tash

Now this little guy I really like.....I think she said it is an Aechmea... but I might be wrong, I was trying to remember so much all at once. She gave this one to me, but Ii think it's so cool, love the colour and it's flowering. I gather it's kind of common, but I like it. Can anyone help with a name please? and will it get seeds? Thanks heaps everyone
Tash

Hi Tash,

Try Aechmea recurvata benrathii for size. It goes well as a garden border also.

All the best, Nev.

yaaa thanks Nev, now to look up some info on it. I just thought it was really nice looking, will it pup and multiply like mini neo's do? oh I forgot to ask... where is it best grown, in the sun or shade filtered sun?
thanks heaps :)
Tash

This message was edited Jun 26, 2011 9:01 PM

Hi Tash,

Yes Ae recurvata benrathi will pup and it will take pretty well as much light as you can give it. I have mine in the garden and some copped full overhead sun during that New Years Day heatwave a couple of years back with no apparent ill effects.

I have some seed on a Neo hybrid I made a while back using Neo Carcharadon x concentrica. I haven't pollinated it myself, but I've observed the Honey Eaters flitting between it and a Neo. concentrica growing nearby and now nearly all of the flowers have developed seed capsules which are almost ready to harvest. I suspect the seed will either be Neo (carcharadon x concentrica) x Neo. concentrica or Neo (carcharadon x concentrica) x self as these were the only two brom's I had flowering at the time.

If anyone would like any seed to try, just let me know as there's heaps to spare.

Below is a pic of the seed bearing plant but unfortunately with te cold weather it has lost its pale pink colouring and has suffered a bit with the cold.

All the best, Nev.

I feel I'm neglecting this thread, but very little is happening at my place. This very plain, small plant is setting a flower bract. It is some sort of vriesea and is growing virtually wild out the front. It grows neatly though and the clump remains tidy, so I don't mind it.

Karen

I didn't want to be the fist to say it Nev.... but no one has written and it's got the better of me, lol.
Yes Please, I would love some seed :) he he he he
One day I hope to be able to repay the favor
Tash

This is an Australian Bromeliad Buy Swap Sell group on Facebook for anyone that's interested. Australian members only and no doubt most of you on here will know the members if you aren't already a part of it :)
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_135461926530292&ap=1
thought it might be a great way for brom poeple to buy and sell without fees
Tash

hi Everyone,
just wondering if anyone happens to know what this one is? The neighbour brought it the other week, it was in flower and had 5 pups hanging off it, so she gave me the biggest one which is pretty big, so just curious as to what it might be so I can put a name on my one.
Thanks heaps
Tash

Hi everyone,

Tash I'll send you some seed in the next few days.

I think your plant is Aechmea lueddemanniana.

All the best, Nev.