Cost Effective Vegetable Gardening Part 2

Honey,
It's been two years ago...rain...acid...soap suds....

Yeah, but, but, but, she comes into our yard frequently, and maybe she's tinkled when I haven't been looking :)

Incidentally, our neighbor's dog is welcomed at our home. I take care of her when her owners go on vacation.

Urine is sterile. There is no chance of getting a disease from a little tinkle. The high nitrogen content, on the other hand, can be a problem for your plants.

I dated a guy who was a biology major. They were required to sample their own urine. The most purified drink on the planet...

I think I'll stick to Mug's Root Beer...the one with the frosty head...

I was watching an episode of mythbusters and they were testing the toilet seat for germs and such, I was surprised to find out that the sponge you wash your plates with has a lot more bacteria and germs that the toilet itself, go figure.

I often stick my sponges, wet, into the microwave to sterilize them. One minute seems to make them sweet-smelling again.

Thanks greenhouse I'll have to try that.

Nuke 'em too long and they'll burst into flames, so watch carefully!

They have to be wet!

Hmmmm......

It took me 2 days to get through this post, the one before it, all the links and videos. Very interesting and thank you all for sharing. I have a few questions, although I'm sure I had many more that I've forgotten while filtering through the thread.

After watching the video on Synergistic gardening, it mentioned planting Fave Beans to fix nitrogen in the soil. I have some bamboo that I really like and I think it's not getting enough nutrients. I researched that it's actually an ancient grass and to treat it the same way I do my grass. The trouble is, my lawn doesn't look so great either because I refuse to buy all the nasty smelling chemicals that make me feel ill and put them on it. Sorry bunny trail, anyway I got to thinking maybe I could grow the Fave beans with my bamboo. Then later, someone said not to companion plant beans for that purpose because it has the opposite effect. I assume this would be true of the Fave beans as well? Maybe I misunderstood the lady in the video (easy to do with the accent) but I thought they were growing them at the same time with everything else.

Concerning Mulching my Veg garden: When I first started gardening (flowers), I used lawn clippings and dead plant material to just toss on top of my flower beds. The next spring the grass actually grew in my beds and took over and just won't go away. And I also have crazy flowers everywhere, which I don't really mind much. I like a messy flower bed, I find the mess more interesting than tidy piles of plants. (bunny trail again, sorry) So I haven't been using grass clippings anymore or plants that didn't get headed in fall in any of my mulches. Instead I've been using leaves, manure and pine bark in a few beds. If you're all using grass clippings and such in your Veg garden, plus not working the soil much, how do you keep the grass, not to mention everything else, from growing there!?

I have some seed starts that are ready to be moved to larger pots. In the past I've just used any old potting mix at the grocery store that I could pick up on my way out the door. I'm sure there are all sorts of "supplement chemicals" in those mixes. I'm curious, after the seeds no longer need the sterile mix and you pot them up, what do you use? It sounds like many of you direct sow, but that isn't an option for me with many crops since we have a very short spring. Heck, we could still get a foot of freak snow well into next month. : )

Phshh... I know I had more questions. In any case, there were some many things to try I'm sure I have plenty to work with for now.
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Additions to the thread : )

As far as money saving things I do. First of all, I don't ever have to buy any pots. I have more saved egg cartons then I'll be able to use in 4 years for seed starting. I especially like the cardboard ones because the fall apart and are easier to remove or even tear the sections apart and pot them up. For transplants, I have a three foot stack of yogurt containers and another stack of cottage cheese and sour cream etc, containers that I clean and save. I use the drill method someone mentioned earlier with cups. I sometimes save juice containers as well, but they don't stack very nicely and they're harder to get the plants out of but they're nice and tall for putting tomato transplants in.

I have been so fortunate with the people I know. Most of them have access to the most wonderful resources but just don't do anything with them so they give it all to me since I'm the only person they know that doesn't do all rock landscape. My neighbor manages a coffee shop, she brings me grounds every couple weeks. My mother-in-law teaches aerobics for retirees. They love hearing her tell about my crazy gardening schemes. One of them manages the local stores for heirloom seeds and they have to remove stock after a year and dispose of it. I'm his disposal system. lol I have crazy things I've never even heard of and only a little 8'x18' garden. One of my dads friends at church is a landscape company owner. After his big spring shows, he lets me take any of the plants home that I want. Now, if I just knew someone with horses!

Again thanks so much for sharing everyone, A lot of things I sort of had a general idea about, I just wasn't sure how to do it all. This will be my third year with veggies. My husband has been very supportive and my kids love the process and are learning with me.

kTalia you are truly blessed with all your great garden connections. I'm jealous.

The only thing I have to offer is that composting grass clippings by heating up the pile kills weed seeds. You can accomplish the same thing quickly by placing the clippings in a trash bag, wetting them well and leaving it in the sun for a couple weeks. You turn the bag a couple times. It heats up and cooks the seeds.

Welcome to the veggie forum.

What type of grass was it? Was there seed heads included in the clippings? Some grass, like burmuda can vigorously spread by rhizones. If it spreads by seed, remove the grass before it develops seed heads. If by rhizone, you will have to carefully dig it out. It may take a few seasons of removal to remove this type of grass.

Coffee grounds and compost work great on lawns. It takes sometime to build up the soil to properly feed the roots. When this point hits, you will have to mow a few times a week because of the lush growth. I am sure a similiar effect can be obtained with bamboo. Some composted manure should be helpful, too. Manure is faster acting than other organic amendment/fertilizers. Some manures have a high level of N. Dig a 1/2 to a full inch into the bed you are planting the bamboo. Add some as a side dressing throughout the season as needed. Be careful, it is easy to over use manure. This is especially true if you use it as your primary amendment.

As for fava beans, they are a cool weather crop. They also hold onto their nitrogen until the decompose. It is better to grow them in the fall and winter. Either compost them to add as an amendment or add directly as a mulch.

I think most of our lawn is a type of bluegrass? I don't know. It's not too troublesome other than the rhizomes, but if I stay on top of them they aren't a problem. It's the crabgrass that seems to grow from the smallest clippings and somehow keeps popping up everywhere that I've learned to hate. It's impossible to pull, the head just comes off. It has to be dug out.

I wonder if your "grass oven" bag method would kill it enough to make the grass clippings useful?

I think Twiggy's grass oven trick would work for the weed seeds. We do that inadvertently because our son saves his grass clippings for us, since he doesn't use anything toxic on his lawn, and he brings them down in big plastic garbage bags. By the time we get to them they're cooked.

Re repotting; I buy potting soil that's labelled organic. MiracleGro puts some out and so does Espoma, and I get Espoma when I can because I like them better. I don't think either one has OMRI rating but I figure they're still better than the other stuff. For my flowers I use anything I can find, but if I'm going to eat it I want it as non-chemical as possible.

Talia welcome to the forum, :), I actually think that green composting is good, I actually did not use fava beans myself but used a mix of beans and vetch that they sell at groworganic.com. I only used this method in 2 of my beds and so far the veggies are growing great with not many insect problems. I just completed a third bed and in this one I will not have time to plant a green manure so what I am doing is dig lots of alfalfa hay into the bed and also did some veggie scrap slushies to attract some wormies, I am going to start planting into my third bed soon, so I'll compare the results once things start producing.
As far as grass what I do with mine is place it in the compost pile as well, the heat should kill all the bad stuff and seeds, but just like Twiggy said I also think that placing it in bags will help as well, the only thing I've heard is to place it in clear bags so the sun rays penetrate the bag and therefore the temps can be reached faster.

Ok, I think I'm seeing a strategy here. I don't actually have a composter, I've been just tossing everything in one end of the garden and raking it a few weeks before spring planting. Perhaps good, but not great as it seems that will upset my "soil culture" some. I liked the idea of using the large planting pots I read in the thread. Perhaps I'll place those behind my bamboo stand and dump my kitchen refuse there. Then they get fed and I can later use the matured compost on my garden without upsetting the soil as much. Add in the toasted garbage bag mulch and that should work nicely.

Thanks for all the input friends.

Bermuda grass is the bane of my existance! My hubby insisted on composting some it last fall and now he knows better! It not only survived, but grew through the gaps in the bin!

He has now taken the advice I gave him in the first place and put it where it belongs - IN THE TRASH!

It use to be the bane of my existence, too. After years of careful and consistent removal, it is finally out of my garden.

If it's anything like my crab grass, I can say I understand. My problems started when we had a manual mower and would often just leave the clippings in the lawn unless they were too thick. We were new homeowners and didn't even know we had any other types of grass in our lawn until it was too late.

dlbailey - I found getting down on my hands-and-knees and digging out every last piece of white root with my hand trowel was the best way to get rid of it. Even now, I see a stray blade poking up here and there!

We covered one small area in the corner of our garden with a piece of carpet two years ago thinking it would kill the Burmuda grass. Recently, we pulled the carpet up thinking the darn stuff would be dead - but NO - there was no "green" but those white roots were still alive and waiting the chance to get going again.

They joined their kin in the trash bin!

There is just one small area left. We'll tackle that in the late fall I don't have time to deal with it now that sping planting season is here.

I dug out my garden to about 2 ft deep. The dirt was sifted to get out any rocks and bermuda grass. Then, I had to dilligently dig out any stray grass or clumps I saw coming up.

Beware, healthy burmuda grass can have roots 3-5' deep. The rhizone layer - from which it spreads - can be over a foot deep.

Keeping the soil loose and well mulched really helps. Burmuda has a hard time getting a stronghold in loose soil. Close plantings of veggies will help shade out the burmuda grass. This won't eliminate it, but will keep it down quite a bit.

dlbailey - last summer I noticed the Burmuda grass did not get a hold in the sweet potato bed. I assumed it was shaded-out, and from what you wrote, that's probably the case.

I've seen it grow through a 9" layer of newspaper, cardboard and leaves!

My beds are very well mulched - thanks for the tip that it doesn't like loose soil. I notice it mostly grows in the corners of the beds - probably because those areas don't get much attention.

I nearly resorted to "Round Up" last summer - but doing so would have gone against my aversion to using pesticides. I do use a little chemical fertilizer sometimes, but I draw the line at pesticides and herbicides. Might as well buy my produce at the supermarket if I resorted to using those products.

I lived for 30+ years in South Florida where I fought St. Augustine grass. Unfortunately, the grass always won!

Beware the scourge of Bermuda... I have a friend who does pools and they have found Bermuda roots at least 12 FEET deep excavating for pools! That stuff is crazy!

I just cleared out some straw mulch along the sides of the beds. There was about 2 small rhizones strains and one blade of grass. The mulch was there for over a month. Yet, it took this long for the grass to get this far. They must not like cool, dark conditions and competition from other plants - there was very healthy mint nearby. Under the right conditions, though, they really can take over.

12'!!! Thats not amazing. Its scary. Like a plant from a B horror movie.

Is funny how much money and effort we take to keep our lawns green and lush. Wouln't it be wonderful to go back in time when people used to have kitchen gardens instead of lawns. Even though I have the raise beds in the backyard, the front is all grass and a few ornamental non edible landscape, I did add some fruit trees and will probably start working in the front lawn as soon as I am done with the backyard.

carminator - What grass I permit to grow gets no attention (except when hubby mowes it) and none of my money! I hate grass and can't wait for the day when the last blade is gone!

Once I get my backyard full of veggies and pretty flowers, I'm going to start on the front yard and turn it into a thing of beauty.

I was borne and raised in Cornwall England with a cottage garden. We had a "postage-sized" area of grass to put our lawn chairs on so we could watch things growing around us.

That sounds so lovely and sensible. I have lived in Europe and those fortunate enough to have a yard do tend to garden extensively. I never saw a lawn. Most of the outdoor furniture sits on a small tiled area and usually even that has containers on it too.

Come to think of it, I can't remember seeing lawns in France, either. It's all used for something.

HoneybeeC,
Post some pics of your lovely backyard, please!

Gymgirl - I have more photos to upload, but here's a link to a web site I have created. Please let me know if the link works...

http://home.rr.com/ncgarden

Beautiful garden Honeybee... I read your web page... love the bounty you talk about!
Like you I have clay soil here in TX as well..so I have resorted to containers for my veggie growing...so far..so good! Of course I am not doing it as extensively as you.hahahaha

HoneyBee, what a beautiful garden you got! not only it is beautiful but practical as well.

I did not mean you or people in this forum when I was talking about the grass, I think we are all pass that, expecially because I know how much we love to grow our own food and enjoy beign in the garden, but mainly was talking about people in general, expecially here in the US, I have not seen anybody in my neighborhood grow any fruit trees or even lettuce etc..., it actually rained a lot this Saturday, and even though we had tons of rain, the next day I saw tons of people in my neighborhood watering their lush lawns. I have not watered mine at all and it looks fine, plus I am sure we will get more rain in the months to come.

I am originally from Spain and grass is not as popular there as it is here, in fact you do see a lot of people growing fruit trees and such in their lot, and lots are a lot smaller in size too.

Everytime I talk to somebody about growing veggies they think it is a lot of work, but is it not a lot of work to cut grass every week, water it and also fertilize it etc....

Since my family might only be here for a few more years, I don't think I'll make a radical move to get rid of my entire lawn but maybe I can incorporate a few veggies where I have some bushes upfront.

I wish I could get rid of my lawn, but I live in a mobile home park so I would not be allowed to go that far.. though they do like gardens.. as long as I have their permission & submit a plan. In fact..they liked mine so much they now have a landscaper build a raised garden every time they put a new home in a spot... & is looks similar to my plan! hahahaha
I wish more around here were gardeners... they come around to look at mine, so I hope that encourages them...not thinking they have to do a lot of work!

Wow, that's pretty cool that they're automatically putting in a raised bed. I'm sure it's good for the landlord, too, because they have some control over the look instead of everyone doing to their own taste (or lack thereof), but it's a nice extra for the residents, too.

Do they have like a move-in packet or such? I wonder if there's a way to give people some headstart on gardening. A packet of sunflower seeds, at the least.

realbirdlady.. the garden is small, but really nice & they do plant plants in them.. each contain something different, & there is usually a few shrubs... I think it's just at the discretion of the landscaper as they are never two the same..except the foundation. However on the down side..if the home isn't moved into right away there is no one to look after the plants/gardens. So sometimes the plants have died before anyone's moved in.
The landscaper also "installs" a natural stone walkway from the steps to driveway..it's not a lot, but very nice.
Currently one of the employees is holding a workshop every 1st Sat. of the month & in May he is going to one of the new residents gardens to teach them how to plant things..as the resident asked how..& this guy asked me to be there to "help" him! hahaha.
I've just been "approved" to have a composter..which I am excited about.. I am goign to order soon.
So..it's all coming together...now I just have to pass the word around on planting milkweed for the butterflies! hahahahahahaha

Isn't that cool how much influence your efforts have had? Your garden has really made a difference!

Oh yes, greenhouse.. it makes me smile when I see the neighbors copy me or follow my actions as in putting out a hummingbird feeder etc! I almost feel like "mother nature" that signals others to do the exact same thing! hahahahahaha

Thanks for all the nice comments about my garden. I'll have to take another photo from the same spot. The irises (in the foreground) are now in bloom, and most of the yellow collard flowers (in the background) have been pulled. I left one row for the honey bees, but that, too will have to come out soon.

Very Lovely, indeed!