CLOSED: 2nd Annual Tomato and Pepper Seed Swap

Hi everyone,

You may be wondering why there were different quantitities of "bonus" seeds send back to different people. It depended on a few different variables....

1) Your existing collection of tomatoes and peppers compared to the "stash" I had.
2) If you were only interested in sweet peppers, I had a very limited variety of those. It was even more restricted for those that said they only wanted non-bell sweets or no hybrids.
3) If you were into hot peppers, I had more variety to give of those.
4) Newbie gardeners often received more to help them get started.
5) ....and last but not least...the most scientific method...how many could I stuff into the envelope without exceeding the thickness limits for Canada post :)

I'm glad you're starting to receive your surprise envelopes and it sounds like so far, everyone is happy with the varieties.

Looking forward to doing this again next year.

.......Heather

I got my seeds 2 days ago but have not been able to post before now. It was Christmas comes early!!!

TOMATOES

Hawaiian Cherry 79D Bonus
Eli IND
Cherokee Purple
American Wonder Bonus
Chico III Bonus
Anna Aasa Bonus
Russo Sicillian Togetta
Break O'Day
Black From Tula
Cherry Sweetie
Taste of Italy
Mortgage Lifter
Liberty Bell
Yellow Magic (stuffer was on my wish list. Thanks!!!)
Kellogg's Breakfast
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Campbell's 1327 Bonus
Pink Ruffled Bonus
Beam's Yellow Pear

PEPPERS

Mini Sweets Bonus
Dulce de Espana
Banana Pepper
Sarga Cseresnye
Sweet Chocolate
Golden Treasure
Yolo Wonder
Sweet Cherry
Dragon's Claw
Diamond White
Shepherd Pepper
Mild Bell Pepper

I also got the 4 gifts of the 3 different eggplants and the sweet corn.

Heather, Thank you so very much for making this happen. My Garden will be super in the Spring and I will have plenty to share with friends and at church. Looking forward to doing this again next year and having many more seeds to contribute.

What's happening here, ladies and gentlemen, although it is sometimes SO subtile you may not even think that it is, is that with all these wonderful tomatoes and peppers (some of the most grown veggies in the world), lots of which are unknown even to those of us who have been years growing the obscure, is that we are gradually expanding the genetic diversity of our planet and, at the same time, even if microcosmically at first, creating the economic demand that can sustain it in the face of industrial monocroping monotony! Eat a Kellogg's Breakfast and take 2 to the office or to church, along with maybe a sweet chocolate bell and Mr Stripey, some thick-walled, cherry flavoured red Hungarian peppers, a few Wapsipinicon Peaches (Claire's goe-history lesson was right-on), and before you know it, you get people wanting these things, not just the cube tomatoes from Wal-Mart! If there's a local market, they'll start to ask for these things there; and the market gardeners will grow them. If there's a customer friendly produce guy or gal at Kroger's, they'll ask for them there, and maybe that person will find a local market gardener. And meanwhile, we are all eating high off the hog, because we have the seeds! But the truth is, gardening is NOT like it was in the 40s and 50s: Liberty Gardens and their aftermath; nor in the 60s: an extreme aftermath of Liberty Gardens; and way beyond the 80s and 90s: when they were Oh, so cute! I've been doing this for 57 years! And I really do think that we may be actually "significant" now! And Heather, thank you SO MUCH. You do more with this 1 swap each year to "mix and match" calalyze the whole process than the 100 or so of us who get to participate would ever do on our own!

Oh, and a piece of what I think is good news! The seeds of the Ste. Colombe Tomato that I could not offer in this year's trade because it was "unnamed" I am reasonably reliably informed will be introduced by Dr Carolyn Male via Seed Savers this next year as "Ste. Colombe"!!! And lucky me! I have a very large stock of seeds from this year's crop, which were grown out from the first crop produced by the person who brought them to America, so these are really direct from the source!

Who, knows, I may get to see you gardens some day! My remaining family is all in WA and my nephew and new wife are currently based out of Bremerton! In a quieter life, I always wanted to be Director of Sno-Isle Library!

Jim

Best,
Jim

Jim (Potagere):

Is this what you meant by Liberty Gardens?

http://sidewalksprouts.wordpress.com/history/vg/

I investigated because I love history. Had read about "Victory Gardens" (WWII), but the WWI popular term was "Liberty Garden?"

Denise

This message was edited Nov 23, 2009 3:41 PM

Would you describe the characteristics of your Ste. Colombe tomato? How exciting that you have already grown it out!

Gramma and Ma may have had problems with the terms, because they went thru both wars. Amazing, when you look back on them. For us (US) they were just ways to supplement. In Europe, they would have been the difference between life and death.
Even more amazing, today we can fight wars we are told are even more essential to the existence of life as we know it, but we can still rely on agri-industry to see us through!

~gardadore: Indeterminate, beefsteak type; average size 1.5+ lbs
I'd probably call this a "Brandywine-type beefsteak"
But Brandywines never do well here, and this tomato did fine
Late season; I got my first ripe fruit at 100 days
Tossing it up between Ms Marta, who likes tart tomatoes and me, who likes a bit more balance with the sugar, this was our #1 this year among: Abraham Lincoln, Absinthe, Amazon Chocolate,Evergreen, Golden Egg, Granny Cantrell's German Pink,Hillbilly Potato Leaf,Legend, Lime Green Salad, Mary's Favorite (probably another "named" tomato, but no one remembers the original name & this was our favorite this year), Pink Ruflled, Limbaugh''s Pink Potato Top, Polar Baby, and Variegated
So. all in all, consideringt the wide range of "competion"if you will, this was a really fine tomato !

Thanks for the info! Sounds great although 100 days is always a challenge in my climate to get things to ripen before it gets too cool!

Yes indeed. We're truly the keepers of the flame and I'd encourage the same for every other crop.

The world's largest seed companies have been scarfing up the smaller ones at an alarming pace and offering nothing but hybrids and genetically modified seeds in pursuit of profits. Mercifully, there is growing appreciation for real food because they've pushed us too far with their tasteless offerings at the grocery stores. People are tired of expensive junk produce.

I grow a few hybrids and I'm not religious about it but it always feels good to grow the oldies. I haven't noticed a hybrid advantage in tomatoes and peppers.

Wow, talk about providing a frame of reference! That really puts it into perspective. Thanks for reminding us that this means so much more than having good food on our own tables (and everyone who lives within range of secret nighttime tomato delivery raids LOL).

Angie

Biodiversity is a cornerstone of sustainability.
We each must do our small part to encourage and support Biodiversity.
Caroline zone 3 Calgary

Zone 3! That must be quite a challenge.

Would like any information of the following tomato varieties for which I received seeds in the swap; thanks

Brown Deluncia

Russian Big Roma

Limmony Aliana - is the same as Limmony

This is what TomatoFest has to say about Russian Big Roma;

http://store.tomatofest.com/Russian_Big_Roma_Tomato_Seeds_p/tf-0434.htm

Russian Big Roma looks like a great paste tomato. The little ones take too much time to get the skins removed. I like to dry them as well as make paste.

Zone 3 is somewhat of a challenge because some years the growing season is down under 100 days. This year we were hit with a cold spell on June 3 which took out some of the early transplants. Wintersowing and begiinning some under lights indoors gets us started. We keep old sheets ready should an early frost threaten and we keep cardboard boxes in case hail threatens.

You'd be a good boy scout. LOL Hate those late frosts. They can wipe out months of work in one night.

Thanks Patti

It's amazing that absolutely nothing shows up when I Google Brown Deluncia! Maybe Caroline has heard of it! Let us know how it is when you grow it out. Does your package indicate its shape? I received Brown Berry in the swap, a new one for me, but it is listed many places as a close to "brown" tomato as opposed to the purple ones. Somewhere I read it is the only more truly "brown" one (as opposed to the purples, which aren't really purple) at present but yours sounds like it might be the second!

beebonnett: Russian Big Roma looks like a great paste tomato. The little ones take too much time to get the skins removed. I like to dry them as well as make paste.

Unless I'm making tomato powder (http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/965932/ down several posts), I dry slices or wedges with the skin.

Limmony: "Fruit jaune clair à orangé à maturation complète, aplati irrégulier dans la forme de 180 à 500 grammes. En bouquet de 4 à 5 fruits. Chair de boeuf. Côtelage important en partie haute. Forte dépression à l'attache pédonculaire. Chair de boeuf à la différence de la plupart des variétés jaunes est chargé de saveurs acidulées douces et succulentes. Plant de 160 à 190 centimètres de hauteur. 70 à 80 jours. Croissance indéterminée. Variété très ancienne présentée par Craig Lehoullier qui a obtenu des graines d'Aaron Whealy. Limmony est une des premières variétés russes popularisées aux USA. Variété fixée de fin de saison."

I have not found the Brown Deluncia either.
Brown Berry and one called Limmony are in the
" tataniastomatobase.com"

I grew one called "Wonderlight " last season and I think it is related to the Russian version called "Limonichiki". That means "little lemon" and the "Wonderlight were definitely a lemon shape.

Tatianas is one of the most comprehensive tomatoe listings I have come across.

Caroline zone 3 Calgary

If you are growing brown tomatoes , you might want to research
"kumatos". And I think there is some confusion between brown, black and purple
tomatoes?

Tatiana's is interesting, to be sure, but I have always felt that it left me hanging ... that the info I wanted as a home gardener was just not there.

I know that Canada is an "officially bilingual" country, but how does that work out in practice? The most comprehensive (and gardener-useful) tomato database I have found is Passion Tomate (in French, alas), at :
http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/passion_tomate.htm.
Another excellent one (in Dutch) is at :
http://www.freewebs.com/ruudendiana/databasetomaten.htm

In all justice, a truly comprehensive tomato database would be in Quechua, and then, where would we all be?



Happy (US) Thanksgiving!

~Potagere



This message was edited Nov 30, 2009 4:39 PM

I broaden my own knowledge by going on line and displaying my ignorance.
Thank you for the European web sites. I can make my way through French and I have neighbours who are Dutch. In Canada, French is predominant in the East.
But there are settlements of French Canadians spread throughout.
I learned French language many years ago in school and can make it out with the help of a dictionary. Conversation French has gone because I have not used it.
Tatiana is actually Canadian and operates near Vancouver, B.C.,Canada.
Your criticism is good as it is preferable that the data come from a gardener and not a seller.
Caroline zone 3 Calgary.

I can accesss the Dutch one ,but not the French one. I will try again later.
My criticism of the Dutch one would be that is missing all the historical data which the Tatiana one gives. I did not find Brown Deluncia there.
In order to find whether Limony Aliana is the same as Wonderlight which I think is similar to Limonichiki------I need some of that history.

Re: the Brown Deluncia------could it really be a Debareo??? If someone wrote the label quickly??? I do not know whether there is a Brown Debareo. Just a thought???

I think, if you spend more time looking at a wider selection of entries, as well as other links and features, you'll see that TOMATObase is still very much a work in progress--and pretty much will be, perpetually.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I contributed the list of tomato varieties mentioned in Gary Ibsen's book, which Tatiana was pleased to include on the home page along with the lists-in-progress from both Carolyn Male's book and Amy Goldman's book.

Yes, Tatiana sells seeds. But she generously tries to list as many current seed sources (by year) for a variety, whether she sells seeds of that variety or not.

Seed Savers Exchange sells seeds, but also publishes the Garden Seed Inventory. Because SSE sells seeds, does this make the GSI suspect?

Dave's Garden sells annual memberships but also provides access to PlantFiles and other compilations. Should PlantFiles be suspect because DG sells memberships to gardeners who wish to purchase them?

This message was edited Nov 26, 2009 5:14 PM

I realize that some posts on threads do get off topic; but I don't think that this is for comments and opinions about other members, especially when they are negative or sarcastic; if you have a personal axe to grind (sorry for the American idiom) this is not, imo, the place to do so. If other places give you better information, then it seems to me that is where you would want to get the information.

This message was edited Nov 26, 2009 5:10 PM

Sorry, all. I was trying to be helpful by listing two tomato data bases that I have found to be particularly useful (especially the French "Passion Tomate") All of these are, by their very nature, "works in progress". Having used them all, I am still of the opinion that Tatiana's list reflects commecial interests. I did not realize that Tatiana was a DG member, and certainly did not mean to be sarcastic. I did, of course mean to be negative, but about the list, not the person. I think that's fair, even if I'm wrong.

That's all, except to apologize profusely to those I have clearly offended here. That was never my intention.

Potagere/Jim

We all make mistakes from time to time.
Constructive criticism is an okay thing on any forum.
We each bring different perspectives to any forum because
we each have a different base of experiences.

Potagere, your apology should be returned unopened. You state above, on 26 November:

Another excellent one (in Dutch) is at :
http://www.freewebs.com/ruudendiana/databasetomaten.htm . . .

Both the French and the Dutch databases are maintained by gardeners. I've traded some seed with them, but they are not selling anything. They have info and are sharing it freely.

- - - - - - - - - -

The French site is already linked from TOMATObase! See: http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/passion_tomate.htm if you go to item 4 of "Other Tomato Resources" at http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Main_Page

And on the Dutch site, I find this at http://ruudendiana.webs.com/zadenlijst20092010.htm, partway down:

"Alle soorten op de "gewone" pagina's kosten 50 eurocent per zakje, exclusief de verzendkosten. Ongeacht welke soort bloemen of groenten."

That looks to me to be about 0.75 USD per pack. Not including shipping. I'd call that "selling something". In fact, she seems to be selling tomato seeds.

The French site does offer much tomato entertainment, including postage stamps featuring tomatoes and adult movies with a "tomato" theme, things I'm sure the gardener needs to know.

- - - - - - - - - -

You also state:

IMNHO, Tatiana tries to be the Dr Carolyn Male of the Internet, and does a rather poor job of it. She's a saleslady. She may have moved her operation from GUM to the UK to now the US, but she's selling tomato seeds. She also seems to have that Soviet need to categorize and file useless or peripheral info while overlooking the obvious.

- - - - - - - - - -

I don't know what this is called in French, but I call it argumentum ad hominem. In fact, here in the USA, we might consider it, under (US) law, a libel unless you can prove that Tatiana was affiliated with the GUM (Glavnyi Universalnyi Magazin), and we do know that she is in Canada, not the USA.

I invite you to defend your statements.

An ignorant 59-year-old American, I (still) read Latin and Greek, and speak and read Hebrew. My Spanish is only so-so. I muddle through French and mangle German. My daughter and son-in-law read Arabic and are fluent in some dialects.

This message was edited Nov 28, 2009 8:52 AM

I like that phrase: industrial monocroping monotony.
I shall use it to explain (partly) why I am getting rid of lawns.

So on a lighter note....the seeds seem to be taking an extra long time to ariive. Has anyone received their seeds that hasn't already posted or sent me a private d-mail?

I always like to know they've arrived safe and sound and how long it takes.

Thanks....Heather

I just went to the mailbox and no seeds yet. I know they will be well worth all this wear and tear on my nerves. I haven't had a piece of mail go wrong in many years so I'm not totally worried quite yet. I think Monday will be 2 weeks since you mailed them so I'm getting close.

kygreg: " . . . if you have a personal axe to grind (sorry for the American idiom) . . . "

A dog-in-the-manger attitude depends on whose ox is gored, but there's no use crying over spilt milk--it's water under the bridge.

Or, as my maternal grandmother (born 1896 in Indian Territory--11 years later, the State of Oklahoma--near South West City, Missouri) used to say: "There are better ways to roast a pig than by burning the house down."

(;-)

My seeds arrived sometime ago. I have been questioning the mailman so often about my seeds that now when he thinks it is seeds---he rings the door bell and announces "your seeds have come".

Russ, my grandmother used to say "If, if's and but's were candy and nuts, we would would all have a good Christmas". A merry Christimas to you all, but I digress from the thread topic. Thanks to Heather we all got an early gift.

Since you guys seem to know a whole lot about lots of different toms, I hope you can help me. I want to grow a couple of toms (prefferably cherries) in my cellar. It doesn't get below 50 in there and I am going to put a light in a closed in showe stall to make a GH so it will be even warmer. Can you reccomend a particular tom that would would do well in this situation?

Cajun,
I wonder if Sungold might not be a good choice? It is very short season and is said by some to do well in areas with not so much heat or sun, so seems particularly suited to your conditions. Also reputedly a very heavy producer.

I also wonder if one of the currant tomatoes (George Curtis Spoon, e.g.) or one of the land races (e.g. Pink Ruffles) might not work. GCS is also very short season. PR takes longer, but I think that these types are also more tolerant of adverse conditions than are the more "cultivated" types. At least, they seem like that to me. Although I must admit than almost all the cherry types also seem to be very tolerant of a wide range of conditions.

If you go ahead with this, it sure would be interesting to hear how it goes!

Potagere