Clematis 'Venosa Violacea' Question

For those of you who have grown "Venosa Violacea":

Would you recommend this to a beginner?

I saw photos of it today and I think it's so beautiful. Is it fairly easy to grow? Is it very floriferous?

I don't have one myself but I have heard they are easy to grow. It really looks like a beauty! I would say for beginners for sure!

Yes it is easy to grow. Mine is planted underneath a viburnum. I don't know how many shoots it has, but there are vines popping up through the shrub in many places. This will be it's 3rd summer in that spot. While it isn't as floriferous as some of the other viticellas, it is beautiful and certainly worth owning.

I just noticed that last year the VV was blooming the same time as the Viburnum. This year, the Viburnum is well past its bloom and the VV isn't even close to blooming.

I asked Debbie at SSV to recommend a clem for my mailbox. She said this one would stop traffic!

i think it is a clem who likes sun. love it with the viburnam. yours sure bloomed early, julia jayne. mine has not bloomed yet. but your is probably blooming on old wood. mine virtualy had a hard prune due to winter damage.

That photo is from last year. I wish I had kept track of when it bloomed last year.

I agree that Clematis "Venosa Violacea" is superb being a pruning group 3 for beginners..I always recommend those as they give gratification alot sooner than the 2's and have more blooming power so as not to get newbies discouraged so they can get their feet wet and feel more comfortable to venture into the other varieties...I adore mine..I have her planted in two different parts of my gardens and always get "OOhhhs & Ahhhhs" over her...Jeanne

Jeanne Tx ,what do you have her paired with? Is that Josephine? It looks great! can you recommend any more group 3's

Other easy to grow clematis in your zone I am assuming is Polish Spirit - awesome clematis! Also Etoile Violette and maybe Comtess de bouchard...all group 3!

julia jayne, the viburnum, must bloom early, so that would mean the VV clem did too, right?
my viburnum blooms in early may, and this clem not until early to mid june. my viburnam hedge, 30 plants long, is now 7 years old and getting huge. it is "mohawk" a very available, and common, viburnam. i have my spoonerii growing thru it,which does not bloom for me in zone 5, but if it ever starts blooming it will be beautiful!

one thing i do not understand is the advice of folks new to clems to only group 3 clems. if you are starting to get into clems there is no need to limit yourself to that group.....the pruining groups were established to take the mystery out of clems and make them easier to grow, not as a ladder of difficulty. many species are group 3 and are not that easy to establish. IT IS NOT A DIFFICULTY LADDER. we are not talking rocket science here.....

the most difficult thing is the time curve of how long clems take to establish ! especially when starting with tiny little liners.

i think the most important thing for beginners is to buy locally available, WELL ROOTED gallons to start as they will be proven for that area if being sold in that area in gallons. second chioce buy choice bigger roots from specialty sources such as ssv, brushwood....

in my mind that is more important than sticking with group 3's.

the only thing experience should help is getting little liners of any group started.

Sugar..that is Clematis "Empress" that I have companioned with "VV" and yes..Dawn is right.."Polish Spirit" and "Etoile Violette" is awesome and quite a thug in my gardens..he shot up 21 vines the second year he was here..I planted him sideways as he was huge..Some other awesome Pruning group 3's are "Galore","Huldine","Voluceau","Mme. Edouard Andre'"
Alot of Clematis people DO recommend pruning group 3's to beginning clematis addicts because most gardeners are impatient and want instant gratification which most clematis do not provide as they take at least three years to get established...the old saying..1st year they "Sleep", 2nd year they "Creep" and 3rd year they "LEAP"...some can take even longer 4-5 years..and they rarely "Wilt" like the pruning group 2's..which can be devastating to a gardener but have faith..they usually return if you continue watering them and rarely do that wilt after year 3 IMHO..some clematis are just more vigorous than others and I find pruning group 3's fit the bill..Some 2's that I find remarkable are "Dr. Ruppel","Empress","Josephine","Niobe",etc...

If you give clematis what they need..at least 6-8 hours sun...they are heavy feeders and should be feed either Rose or Tomato Fertilizer in early Spring and after their first flush of blooms are over OR after hard pruning..keep their roots moist and they should do just well in anyone's gardens...Jeanne

Last year, spring started very early. The temps during the entire month of April was around 70 deg and we also had the perfect amount of rainfall. I think that is why VV bloomed so early. A lot of things bloomed early, but not everything.

My viburnums are "mohawks", too. Love em.

The group 2 vs group 3 thing...

I agree with you, however, there are additional things to consider: when do they want the clematis to bloom, where will they put it, what zone do they live in, what is their level of commitment, and what are their expectations. If they aren't going to fertilize and water, they shouldn't get Arctic Queen, for example. They'd be better off getting a viticella because they aren't as demanding. There are some group 2s that bloom well early and have a weaker 2nd flush mid August- September. If they live in one of the colder zones, they might not have many blooms in spring and an early frost could kill the 2nd flush. From what I have read, every clematis won't grow in zone 9, so that is something to consider as well.

All that said, some of the most beautiful and special clematis are group 2s. If a person really wants say, and Arctic Queen as their first clematis, then they should get it. I'm not going to deny someone that pleasure.

I bought a tiny little liner of 'Venosa Violacea' last year at this time. I have never seen such a small starter plant in my life!!! But it had a good root system - which I discovered during transplanting it! This little vine actually bloomed after being transplanted into a bigger container about 2 months after I got it. I transplanted the vine the end of last year into the ground along my picket fence in full sun. I am in zone 10a. I can not express how beautiful it was when it started blooming this year! I got a ton of blooms!!! It loves the sun! It finally stopped blooming possibly because of all of the rain we have had the past 3 weeks. But it seems to be doing well. Here is a photo of some of the blooms from a month ago. This photo taken on May 6.

BTW - I am brand new to growing Clematis. I didn't even think they would grow well in my hot zone! My photo is proof that they do!!! :-)

I also bought two other teeny tiny Clematis liners at the same time last year. I think I paid $4 for each of them. This is Ernest Markham this year. Not nearly the growth as Venosa, but it bloomed recently (and also bloomed last year as a starter vine, too).

Here is more blooms on EM. It did get more blooms, but not nearly as many as Venosa did. And you can see the vine and leaf growth compared to the crazy fast growth of Venosa! Venosa wins hands down in my book as a novice Clematis gardener.

This message was edited Jun 6, 2009 11:12 AM

Here is a photo of Venosa at the height of it's blooms taken on May 6th.

Beautiful, isn't it? If it becomes invasive here (I doubt it), I would be delighted!!!! :-) I hope it covers my entire fence next year! :-)

And the other clematis that I purchased as a liner last year was Jackmanii. Probably the most common clematis grown. It is in a more shaded area and not nearly as covered with leaves or blooms. Here it is with the max blooms that I got on May 18th. It would probably do better in more sun, but still bloomed quite nicely.

Are all three of these prune group 3? And will they bloom again for me this season?

The American Clematis Society lists the growing zone range for VV as 6-11. Funny, because it does fine here. I'll have to send her a photo when it blooms.

Becky, VV looks gorgeous on your fence.

I agree the VV is just gorgeous on the white fence. Beautiful contrast!!

Becky ..you have done fabulous with your clematis..just goes to show you can grow clematis in 10 zones once you learn how to adapt them to your hot climate and remember their needs...watering well..etc...Jeanne

Thanks for the kind compliments, everyone. As my first experience with Clematis, I am very, very pleased with these vines! I am so glad I took a chance and bought these 3 to give them a try in zone 10. I do water them daily because it IS so hot here. Should I be fertilizing them, too?

Clematis are heavy feeders and should be fertilized in late winter/early spring..the same time you hard prune your clematis or when you prune your roses...don't fertilize again until after they have finished their first bloom cycle...do you hard prune your 3's like I do after their first flush is done?..I get about 2-3 bloom periods on my pruning group 3's this way...Jeanne

Jeanne - How far should I prune them back? When you say hard prune, do you mean 6" from the ground? And what kind of fertilizer again is best to use on Clematis?

This message was edited Jun 7, 2009 12:18 PM

I prune mine just above the 3rd leaf axil and use either Rose or Tomato Fertilizer..you want the middle number to be higher than the other two...the "P" in the N-P-K ratio..remember that N=nitrogen=leaves/stems/branches......P=Phosphorous=Blooms/roots...K=Potassium=all the plant & to help fight disease....
here is a pic of hardblooming in early spring..same can be applied..there are 3 leaf axils=the "Y" but some aren't showing but in the soil/below pic

i bought venosa v as "violet stargazer" years ago, like 8 years ago. it has had some bad years and some good years. this is going to be a good year for it.

Becky, v.v. looks fab on the white fence!

Guru - Love your "violet stargazer" venosa! Looks a bit darker purple than mine! Very pretty!!!

GardenQuilts - Thank you! I have a white vinyl privacy fence around my backyard and I grow all my vines up the fence with the use of a trellis mounted on the privacy fence. See my photo.

My favorite vine species is Morning Glory. I grow all kinds of Ipomoea nil MG cultivars. Many are Japanese cultivars and they also look smashing against that white fence. :-) Something about white really makes colorful blooms pop against the white background.

This message was edited Jun 10, 2009 3:02 PM

love dark flowers on white for sure. always a winner.

beck, do you have trouble with the MG self seeding invasively? yours are pretty.

my venosa is partially shady due to a neighbors cherry tree and that keeps it a little darer i think. my galore (old vesuvius) is there too and it is very dark, darker than my negritana. i will take more shots of it tomorrow. that shot was in flat morning light too no sunshine reflecting.

ClematisGuru - I only grow Ipomoea nils. I. purpureas are very invasive in my zone, so I don't grow that species of MG nor a few others because of that reason. I. nils do self-seed, but the seeds often don't survive the rain and cold winter weather here.

I would love to see photos of your darker negritana. :-)

thanks becky, you have educated me. i was always wondering how mg folks kept them form spreading!!!how do you determine if the seeds you get are nils vs purpureas?

will post negritana today. big storm coming in here now, can't go out to take a shot and i was waiting for a few more to open up. will do so today. the clem sis vigorous and seems like a nice plant and flower, but i di notice galore is darker, but nergritana gets more sun than my older galore.

Becky..MG are a pain here as well..I planted "Heavenly Blue" 4 years ago and it seeded itself all over my gardens..I am not exaggerating when I say I must have pulled up 500 seedlings..they want to take over my clematis..and I am still weeding out seedlings..also "Cypress Vine" is another nuisance in my gardens...it's UNREAL..I started out with two little seedlings I pulled from my dad's gardens and still am fighting it..must be our warm climates?...Jeanne

becky, how do you know which ones are nils and will not spread? vs purpurea. i am assuming the nils are like f1 hybrids that will grow form seed, but not grow form their seeds? and purpurea are species types that will grow from seeds in successive generations?
not sure this laymans interpretation is anywhere near the reality, but woul like to know more on this and also how to get the ones that do not spread form their own seed.

Guru and Jeanne - I've discerned the difference between I. nil and I. purpurea seeds/vines from being educated by my DG friends on the Morning Glory forum. Packages of seeds should say what species of MG they are, though I know not all packets do. American seed companies don't always do that. Both species produce seeds. I. nil seeds can't survive harsh winters. The seeds aren't tough enough to survive. On the other hand, the I. purpurea seeds are tough and prolific and unfortunately produce hundreds of volunteers each Spring/Summer from the seeds dropped from a single vine. They are highly invasive in Florida! I grow only one or two I. purpurea vines a year. And I grow them in a pot in an area that is not conducive to good germination, so I get very few volunteers. Often those volunteers don't make it because the soil is sand with little nutrients or water. :-)

Jeanne - I can't grow Cypress vine either. It's scary how it takes over everything in it's sight! Which is a bummer because it IS a hummer nectar plant! I have to stick strictly to I. nils. But the hummers are not picky. I have seen them go up and down my I. nil blooms sipping nectar from each bloom. Hummers love MGs!

Often the MG packets you see in stores in commercial packages are I. purpureas. Why? Because they grow so well. Seed companies aim to please! LOL!

I have I. nil seeds I can share for postage, if you are interested. Just d-mail me. :-)

Guru - I look forward to seeing your Clematis bloom photos! :-)

I cut my Clematis back and dumped some compost on them. Will fertilize them this weekend, too. I hope to see a second flush of blooms from all 3 vines. :-)

thanks becky, interesting. glad to know how al the mg fans do it without being overtaken. your clems will love this treatment and be back for more.

I have learned so much this spring from this forum not only about clems but a variety of gardening subjects.Its wonderful! thank you all.

Guru - If you would like some I. nil seeds for postage, I have plenty to share. I didn't mean to just make that offer to Jeanne, but to others as well. :-)

Sugarblue - So glad that you are getting a fine education here on DG! I have learned volumes from so many here on DG and love passing along what I have learned to help others! :-) Happy Gardening!

well probably too late to put them in this year and get blooms? i have radar love seeds i have never planted, but they have a long germination.
would have to take them and not plant them and waste them. they probably need t go out more like first of may in this zone??? what do you think?
very kind of you to offer. how long do they take to germinate?

Guru - In warm climates, MGs germinate in a week or so. They take longer if the temps are in the 70's or less. The warmer, the faster they grow. This is for I. nils. They like warm temperatures to germinate, grow, and bloom. Mine bloom here in about a month. But they may take 2 months where you are at. I even grow mine in a tall sunny window and get blooms and seed pods! Crazy, huh?!

Dmail me if you want some seeds for postage. :-)

I was looking for a place to sing praises of Venosa Violacea and found this thread, so I will add my 2 cents. I love it! This is year 2 for mine, I got it mail order (Garden Crossings) so it was pretty small but it grew like gang busters. I am new to Clematis as well and did not have the benefit of the Dave's Garden community at the time. I was looking for something to cover the fence at one end of my patio and decided on this one. I chose pruning group 3 so I could whack everything down every year. I never see Venosa Violacea offered at local nurseries, this really isn't clematis country I guess and they don't offer too many choices. It is a shame because the details of Venosa Violacea are so pretty, the dark stamens and pretty white star. It makes me happy every time I look at it, and mine has been blooming a long time, since March. The pictures were taken yesterday.

VERY pretty, Nasturtium, love the way you have it trained over the top.