When to sow spreadsheet!

the yellows take the longest for some reason started all of mine at the same time and the yellow ones are just two inches tall lol but they will catch up when they are outside the scent comes out in the flowers in the evening some people dont like the smell and some people go crazy for it, I like the plants since I use them to compensate for the lack of bushes and small trees that I dont have and I cant afford to buy hahahhah and you know its great since I can plant these at a different spots every year which is not possible with shrubs hahahhahaha

Thank you for your time and efforts in compiling a database! I appreciate all your time! Keep up the wonderful work. Wish I had some info, but I am new to gardening and seed starting. Thanks again!

~M~

M do remember that mr google knows all and always cross check so do not take what it says as gold check a few website and see if the info is consistent
also I use this site for seed germination information

http://tomclothier.hort.net/index.html

and if you hang around with us long enough you will know all hahhahahahahah
I started to clean out flowerbeds yesterday got a good section of the backyard done to find that I have some crocuses that are just about ready to open yes my fist outdoor blooms for this year

Jordanj - Know what you mean about hedging your bets on the thinning. You may find that some of the multiples may need to be thinned again in a couple of weeks as the seedlings grow. It's always been easier for me mentally to thin early than to discard the overabundance later in the compost pile, especially because it only takes a few minutes to do.

If you plant seeds to propagation trays, tiny seeds can be added sparingly to clean coarse sand and sprinkled on the medium. Quite often, small seeds require light to germinate. By surface sowing with sand, the seeds get light through it but are less likely to wash away with misting. The sand also affords a more even distribution so you are less likely to have 'wads' of seedlings.

I totally agree with that yes you are right

I always wondered how the seed gets evenly distributed throughout the sand and would be totally bummed if I waited 3 weeks for seeds to germinate only to discover that a particular cell got sprinkled with pure sand. Just curious.

I broadcast the seeds in sand into propagation trays, and I mix the seed and sand first.

it works good for certain seeds, certainly the one that require light since the sand will allow light to get to the seeds its a very small amount of sand to seeds maybe like like four or five grains to one seed I dont put alot

Best way to direct sow poppies IMPO.

yup that is why when I did my perennial poppie seeds I did only about one quarter indoors and the rest will be seeded directly in the location I want them in I just did a few indoors to see about finding better ways to transplant them withotout loosing them
an experiment to say that didnt do well since it didnt matter what I did differently still lost most of them so outside is still the best way directly sowing them

mona

Found another very good web site with some great information on it for seed growing. It's called The Seed Site ! From a gardener in the UK, and it's a bit unusual. The gardener mentions only seeds he/she has grown, and usually in multiple batches, totaling between 1500 and 2000 batches. Wow !. There are pictures of nearly 700 new seedlings with ID for each, and graphs showing how & when each type of seed was sown, & how many batches were sown. Other pages with all kinds of tips and info, including stuff for kids and of course an explanation of the graph key. It's different from others I've seen, but I got some very useful tips from it, so I think it's worth looking at. There is a specific request not to duplicate the info elsewhere without permission, totally understandable, there has been an awful lot of work put into this site. There's a link to contact the site owner. Have a look, here's the URL.
http://theseedsite.co.uk/index.html

I checked it out interesting info, I usually can tell what family a seed is from but example it still doesnt give me which poppy seeds are what color lol that is for the plant to tell me when it blooms

Question on this spread sheet. When the instructions read "do not cover", is that don't cover with soil or is that don't cover with plastic or plastic dome?

Its meant as do not cover with soil. Generally this means that the seeds need light to germinate.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. thanks

it is very common for extremely small seeds to not cover them since they sprout so small they would not have the strenght to make it out of the soil, so when they germinate the root finds the soil and attaches itself as it grows it goes deeper into the soil when it is strong enough the seedling stands up, it is amazing to watch with a magnifiying glass
I thought it was way cool

mona

Thanks Mona,

I'm such a newbie at starting seeds indoors. I haven't done it since I was in High School (long time ago). Do all perennial poppies have to be cold stratified? Probably too late to winter sow now? I can't tell you how nervous I am about this. And that's kind of funny to me too!

poppies are better directly sowed where you want them to grow this is what I do and it works everytime, pick the spot and fix the soil even add a little of the good stuff and rake it fine then add the seeds spritz it till it is real moist and use a dome put it on and use rocks of bricks on the edge to keep it in place or soil whatever and it will only take about a week and then when you see then are up remove the dome

now do this when the soil has warmed a bit so they will come up right away or you can do it now and they will come up when they are warm enough

and if they weren't cold stratified, it's okay to direct sow?

now is the perfect time since it is still cool enough at night to do the job so get to it and grow them poppies hahahahha I am doing some on the weekend I will be able to get into the shed to get my outside domes, ice and snow was blocking the door till yesterday

Okay, thanks for the help again. I don't have the all the beds ready yet!! I'll have do do some improvising about where I'm putting stuff I guess!

Just a thought. Since most perennials have their particular month to bloom, depending on soil, air temperature, lenght of daylight, sunlight, and climate, can't that information be used to judge when a plant will bloom from seed.?

For instance, Gysophila (baby's breath) begins to bloom in June from a sowing the previous year. Aubrieta (Rock Cress) blooms in early spring from a early spring sowing during the previous year. At least they have for me in zone 4. Each variety of perennial have an internal clock to tell them when to bloom, and that is when conditons are right for them in daylight, soil and air temperature. This is the reason why the same variety may not bloom on the same month across the US.

I think for annuals, a chart would be useful since they bloom according to maturity (given reasonable care) and are not dependant on inviromental factors to bloom, as is the case for perennials.

poppies sowed this year will not bloom till next year unless they are annuals but perennial poppies are worth the wait since the blooms are so huge and beautifull and they bloom when not much else is blooming just after the spring stuff is finished and the summer stuff is not there yet I ususally put mine with something taller behind them and something infront that will hide the foliage since it looks pretty dead at the end of july till september when the new green comes up I usually keep cuting the really ratty stuff as they dry up

This message was edited Apr 1, 2009 9:13 AM

This message was edited Apr 1, 2009 9:14 AM

Yah, I don't care if things bloom this year, I just want them to germinate! LOL.

home depot has plastic bells they are like one foot by one foot it maybe easier to find a square foot in the garden and they are very cheap and made for just this since they have a hole at the top to let out the extra heat usually sell for a couple of bucks I was using them at my other house since space was limited and I didnt want to start a really large patch but many patches of different color and I started them later in the season like mid to end of june and they bloomed the next year so you could do that but make sure if its later in the season to use the bells with the hole or they will cook

hmm. I didn't think starting later in the year was an option on the poppies since they wanted coolness to germinate.

I'll have to look for those bells. I am definitely limited on space.

actually its funny because the seeds are spread by the end of july and germinate and bloom the next summer I never cool mine unless the package says it has to be like the blue ones the hamalayans need the cold but I just plant mine and they grow I have also planted them when the seeds have been many years old and they still come up if the can grow in the middle east in sand and no cold lol they can grow anywhere

well all right then. That makes more sense to me! I won't stress about getting them into the ground. I have a butterfly and hummingbird garden to build first!

You can always use a fridge to simulate a cold period, to stratify seeds. I've also read that some hardy seeds can be put in the freezer to simulate going through a harder winter, so they'll flower from seed the first year instead of the second, but I don't recall what species it was said to work for. Just a note - I recently got some seeds from Australia where I saw frequent mention of smoke being used to help break dormancy on certain hard to germinate seeds. Interestingly, to me anyway, this apparently works on a number of seeds that are not necessarily from areas where bush or grass fires are common either. I found a US supplier who sells 'smoke paper', basically small pieces of special paper impregnated with smoke compounds, that you dissolve in water. Then you use the resulting 'smoke water' to soak the seeds. It depends on the type of seed of course, but it apparently can give much better results on some hard to germinate seeds. I'm not sure if this spreadsheet is intended to include information for tree or bonsai type seeds, or if it's mainly meant to address flowers and vegetables, but I sure found this information about smoke treatment fascinating. It appears it can sometimes replace or else shorten the period of stratification for some of the seeds it's effective with, which is what prompted me to mention it here.

phfurballs - That is interesting. I would have thought that some seeds required the heat, much like you see in controlled burns, rather than the chemical emission. Unless it's acting like gibberellins, which I've never used. Also interesting is putting seeds in the freezer rather than the fridge. Older recommendations said never to put in the freezer but I'm very curious about this. Do you have any reference link? Thanks for the posting.

Cindy I have germinated all my seeds this year in a moist kitchen paper towel. Those that needed cold, I stuck in the fridge for 2 weeks. Putting seeds in the freezer don't accomplish anything except perhaps crack the seed, whick can be done by nicking.

In order for low temp of the fridge to work (stratification), it has to be combined with moisture. Sticking seeds in the fridge without it defeat the purpose. Seeds naturally wake from dormancy with a combination of cold and moisture in nature. Then sprout with warmer soil temp.

Some seeds, like tree seeds, have a double dormancy and require cold, warmth, cold, and warmth again, to sprout.

CAPTION. These are Aquilegia (Columbine) sprouting in a moist kitchen napkin prior to transferring to a seed flat. These were sown Feb 17, then in the fridge for 2 weeks. They germinated March 18 in room temp. Those that have no roots have swelled and ready to sprout.

There are some seeds that benefits from smoke. Here is an excellent seed data base with lots of information. Also sells seeds. Somewhere on this website smoke is mentioned. Just look around. It also mentions the G. acid.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/index.htm

I see roots on those seeds they are more than ready to plant wow I have to try that just to see the roots come out I usually soad mine for a bit and then just plant them and they come up when ready

Blomma - Thanks for posting the link. I've heard of Hudson on and off for years but never checked out their website but have now bookmarked it. Just about all of my seed starting falls within the range of stratifying, nicking, soaking or no special treatment. I've never delved into the "special" treatments like GA-3 (which Deno mentions often) and others so I found the smoke treatment interesting. Even more interesting is Hudson's notation that it can be accomplished by using Liquid Smoke. I'm wondering if plants commonly grown east of the Miss just don't have those "special" requirements.
Great explanation on stratifying. I generally stratify Aquilegia for about 3 weeks which is just short of sending out the root and they generally sprout about 10 days after sowing. Some roots can develop so fast during stratifying that I have found myself struggling to dislodge them from the substrate (usually unbleached coffee filters) without doing damage.

but you cant do that with poppies they have a tapered root like a dandy lion and will die that is why it is better to just plant them where you want them so much easier than loosing most or all of them and yes you can just put them in the cheese or butter section of your fridge to make them them react as if they got cold and it will not hurt the seeds one way or the other and will guarranty that if they did need it well its done so put them in the fridge till you are ready to sow them on the surface never cover them with soil they need the light to germinate

this is one patch I started last summer I think it was in june

Cindy You are welcome. Glad you found the site interesting. I have a whole bunch of seeds I want to order from them for next year.

Try kitchen paper towels instead of coffee filters. They are softer, and easier to squeeze moisture from. Also provide more even moisture, and hold it. I cut one in half, then fold it, fold it again until you have a square. I place the seeds inside the square and fold one end over.

After placed in a ziplock baggie, I close it, leaving a 1/2" opening on one end. I blow air into the opening to form a balloon. The air will stay in the bag if the runners are lined up correctly on the baggie. This way the plastic isn't laying over the seed package.

I know what you mean about seeds sprouting so quickly. The roots can actually grow right into the paper. I have had to cut the sprouted seed out and plant it with the paper.

What I really find so interesting in sowing seeds this way is that I really get to see how its done. Each variety of seeds have a character all its own. It's like giving birth.

Mona - I've never had much luck with poppies here, even buying the plants (CA poppies maybe?). Do you put the seed packet in the fridge or do you use some other container? That butter compartment is great for stashing seeds - otherwise they'd get lost in the fridge. What's the minimum time you have to keep the poppy seeds in the fridge? I've gotten lots of free packets of poppy seeds but always give them away since I don't have much luck with them.
Blomma - I've stayed away from other paper substrates for my stratified seeds because of the bleaching process. I think I had read in one of Deno's books to use unbleached papers. And then I use a spray bottle of distilled water (avoiding the chlorine in tap water) to spray my coffee filters so I can control the amount of moisture I add. Always have the spray bottle around for ironing anyway (ugh). I'm going to check out the seed list to see what I might want to order from them. I really need to expand my seed sources.

if you bought the seeds and it those not say to cold stratify them then you can just plant them anytime just remember since they are surface sowed to use a dome or bell or the birds will eat them all and mist to keep moist for a few days

perennial poppies are easy to grow if you directly sow them

I've never had much luck with poppies here either until this year. I winter sowed about a dozen containers worth, and all but 2 came up! Next year I'll get even more brave and try direct sowing... transplanting all that success was a pain!

No domes or bells here but clean glass jars should work. My neighbors will think I've planted a "different" type of garden with a dozen glass jars sticking up. Afraid plastic bottles will just blow away with the spring winds.