I. jalapa

LOL Becky.

Madame Nelly BOUILHAC the director of the ipomoea collection in France say that she bought ipomoea purga seeds from the B&TWorld Seeds company but she 's not sure,the Purga seeds she got is perhaps Turbinata.
http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/
I don't find Purga in they list ! perhaps in the 2008 list !
seeds are they so similar ?
The classification of ipomoeas is strange for me - so many Tricolor ?
Dany

hi Dany...
i think you'll find that most of the ones they have listed as ipomoea tricolor are actualy varieties of ipomoea purpurea... i have even seen ipomoea nil murusaki jishi listed as a tricolor...

i have contacted Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh... because i found somewhere on the web that said that ipomoea purga was growing there as well as Kew and somewhere not to far from me called Bixton? it just said Bixton it didn't say where!!

they have sent me a nice email saying they do not grow ipomoea purga and even if they did they couln't let me have any seeds.... due to whatever!!

which leaves Bixton and Kew

I used to correspond with the proprietors of B&T seeds,but they reneged on an agreement and so I no longer answer their inquiries...

Kew gardens is an excellent example of a large institutions that are effectively blockading genetic diversity from most people...

Look at their seed dispersal agreement...you can only get seeds if you are working for a large institution trying to develop an industrial product and you must agree to give Kew a permanent 25% of any profits pursuant to any product development...

The botanists scooping up the rare species that are being destroyed by the gigantic forest clearing machines at a rate of 1.5 acres per second
https://www.ownforest.com/accredited_FAQ_rainforest.php
are funded by Kew and other institutions with similar 'sharing' policies...

Kew and other large institutions may wear their public relations mask,but they are not (in the final analysis) 'people friendly'...


TTY,...


Ron

Ron I'd like to say "shut up and eat your soylent green", but you might take it a miss. I think it would be appropriate to give it a new name, "Monsanto Green".
Monsanto would never dream of patenting every chromosome and gene that God created. Plundering every country in the world is the last thing they would want to do. Isn't it???????????? Frank

Perhaps an other track for Ipomoea purga !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sementes.de/shop/index.htm

Dany - Good link! INTERESTING online store! Is this the Ipomoea purga photographed here on this page (scroll down)? http://www.sementes.de/shop/index.htm

If so, it is VERY pretty!

pretty bewitching. sorry had to go there

I went there too, and you have to click on I for Ipomoea, and then go through enough pages to get to I purga in alpha order. The price is 2.8 Euros for 10 Korns/Seeds. If the picture matches the seeds I want to grow it out anyway.
2.80 E equals about $3.80 USA dollars. Does anyone have a seed introduction permit yet, so we don't have to gamble on customs? Frank

frank... if you want i could send for some seeds to have a look at from there.... before you apply for a permit! however, i'll bet they're ipomoea turbinata!

i have ordered i purga from another german seed company(there are several online)... they turned out ot be ipomoea turbinata... and i think they use mostly the same sources for seed as they seem to have similar ranges on offer..... i don't want to be a party pooper but that's my experience :( in fact from german seed companies i have only recieved about 50% correctly identified ipomoea and thats just from IDing the seed... it could be more once i grow them out.

also whilst i'm on a rant :-) ipomoea nil candy stripe purple packets from POD contain ipomoea tricolor seeds..... :-)

Colin,
I send them a mail.
2 questions : - i need a picture of the seeds ?
- are the seeds they own production ?

Do you have a picture of Ipomoea Purga seeds ?
Dany

Ron, you mention that in Hoodoo people grow their own herbs for greater potency, but IME, this is not true (more true for Vodou). Hoodoo especially has always been tied to drugstore providers of herbs, and this is in fact how they got to be using I. purga for High John in the first place--because I. purga was an Eclectic herb, and Hoodoo magical suppliers were typically pharmacists. The "real" High John was apparently an African plant. Neither I nor anyone else who has looked into it has been able to determine even whether that plant was an Ipomoea. The true knowledge of its identity appears to be lost. At any rate, I have never heard of anyone involved in Hoodoo growing their own High John, whether I. purga or not.

I think that the real bottleneck is in the fact that this plant produces these big rhizomes. I am sure that where it is grown commercially, they just use the rhizomes for planting and not seeds. I wouldn't be surprised if it produces seeds poorly as well, given that it DOES produce such big rhizomes. It would seem wasteful of plant energy to produce both lots of viable seeds and big rhizomes at the same time.

Like you, I gave up on B&T years ago because they would claim to have a seed in stock, to be actually looking at it while I was on the phone, swear they would send it out the next day, and then they wouldn't send it for months. This happened three times in a row, and that was the end of it. A seedsman in the UK told me they were well known for not keeping seeds in stock.

Harry

Hi Harry,

I wonder if the commercial nursery you reference would part with a part of the plant's rhizome if we pledge not to commercially market the plant for pharmaceutical purposes, only aesthetics (i.e. wild rejoicing and merriment over High John's fantastic flowers)?

Joseph

Hi, Joseph,

I am not aware of who exactly is producing this root in Mexico. I think they would not care if people wanted to buy some live roots. It is just that I believe they don't see the need of selling them or collecting seeds. There is just not much of a market for it. I seriously don't think it's that anyone is keeping seeds back for any reason. To us these seeds are valuable, but that's because we are ipomoea geeks. The problem with getting it from a grower in Mexico is that a live root has to go through different paperwork than just some seeds.

I actually applied to the Kew Garden program this morning just to see what would happen. From reading their patter, it seems like they are talking about limiting seed disbursal to non-profits. I am not sure, but I figured what the heck. I applied as a business. If they turn me down or don't answer, oh well. It was worth a try.

Harry

Well, I am wrong--they do use seeds in the production of this crop:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/0287110111072341/

Harry,

Thanks for jumping in with your experience! :-)

I grow 4 O'Clock plants and they produce huge tubers! AND a LOT of seeds, too!! So I would honestly think that it would be a good seed producer as well. I hope someone here can obtain some seeds! Wouldn't that be awesome! And I would definitely be interested to grow one or two seeds here in my zone 10a! (Hint, hint!)

This message was edited Jan 12, 2009 1:08 PM

Ok, who is going to make the trip for us. I just checked, and from Portland, Oregon to Veracruz, $350 to $550 RT, with a 7 hour layover in Mexico City.
It could be done cheap. Frank

Frank - When I hit the Lotto ... I'll go! ;-)

beckygardener, that's a good point about the four o'clocks. I didn't think of that.

Harry

The seeds from sementes are I.turbinata...

Colin -
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5995343

Definitely tricolor...


Harry - I'm basing my offerings on the information that I received directly from someone (from the University of Pennsylvania) who I had personal correspondence with (several years ago...wanted me to travel to Mexico with her) and who held multiple degrees (a full page listing various hands,priestesses,scrolls and other titles that I don't recall) in both Hoodoo and Voodoo and was writing her masters thesis on this plant and the comparison of the practices in Africa,The New World including both Hoodoo and Voodoo...perhaps there are different working perspectives within the 'clergy' and the laity...there have been 'quite a few' others who have contacted me and were very adamant that growing ones own roots were essential and that commercially available roots were basically 'junk'...

I'm tending to believe what she relayed to me...but of course feel free to share whatever you have to share...

The entire large main root is used as a cathartic,but it is only the smaller secondary roots which are naturally formed (ala doctrine of signatures) that are used for 'testicular' formulations of any 'serious value'..


You mentioned:


"I wouldn't be surprised if it produces seeds poorly as well, given that it DOES produce such big rhizomes. It would seem wasteful of plant energy to produce both lots of viable seeds and big rhizomes at the same time."

There are many large rooted perennials in Ipomoea and other genera within Convolvulacea that produce very large roots and many seeds also...although the perennials tend to be self-infertile and unless cross pollinated with other plants of the same species may be poor seed producers...


Good Luck...


TTY,...


Ron

Hi, Ron,

Well, I would believe the importance of growing one's own with other African/New World practices but not with Hoodoo or with New Orleans/Louisiana Voodoo. And in the case of this particular root, I've had conversation with the largest Hoodoo supplier in the US who has been in the business since the sixties and has written on the topic of Hoodoo quite a bit, and I know they are looking for this in smaller sizes and have been for some time--and that they have no idea where to get seeds for it. I know she knows many rootworkers and that they are not growing this plant. There is actually a book out about Hoodoo suppliers ("Spiritual Merchants") that has an appendix on High John the Conqueror root. In that appendix, the author posits that West African slaves identified something that was growing in the Deep South (I think maybe I. pandurata) with a plant in Africa, but she does not ever say what it is and it is apparent she does not know. People began using I. purga instead because it was readily available in drugstores as part of the Eclectic formulary.

Some of the other African/New World religions do consider it very important to grow your own, like people involved with Vodou (Haitian "Voodoo"), Santeria, and Candomble. They even have a deity of plants. But as far as I know, they don't they use this root.

Harry

Hi Dany,

Here is the response of Margit REINER from Sementes Germany

we do supply only the true ordered seeds. All our seeds are imported from the home countries. We are no private growers, but a firm for seed export.

Regards,

the SEMENTES-TEAM

www.sementes.de

No picture of seeds !

Harry - Thanks for your contributions...

I would suggest that information from any supplier (for monetary profit) be taken with as many grains of salt as necessary as the monetary motive should be considered as often tending to create a bias in favor of their products...

The New World Indian shamans and brujo's often emphasize the importance of growing ones own 'plants of power'...and although there is also the belief in the various deities inhabiting plants,these beliefs are pre-columbian...

Dany - I and others that I know have ordered from sementes multiple times and their accuracy is consistent with the other european suppliers...their 'team' does not even know how to accurately differentiate the most common types like purpurea,nil and tricolor...

I know people who have ordered I.purga seeds from sementes and they most definitely turned out to be Ipomoea turbinata,but you and any others who care to spend your money with them can order the seeds for yourself to see what they are...maybe you will get what you are hoping for...

Please post your seeds and the resultant plants in your journal (which is available to non-paying members like margrit) and here on the MG Forum for everyone to see...

Best of Luck (!)


I hope that the people looking for the seeds locate accurate sources...


TTY,...


Ron

Ron,
I just finish my order .
There is no pic of Ipomoea Purga , they look like the Tubinata seed or they are more like the nil or other.?
Dany

Ipomoea purga seeds have long silky hairs along the edges,but these can become dislodged during extensive or rough handling...

There are no photos of actual I.purga seeds on the net,yet...only drawings...

INCREDIBLE !

Sementes pay back 2,80 Euro
Comment : ipomoea purga is at the moment no longer available.

In fact I've a plant how has red-pink flower , opening during the night, coming from Mexico a part of his latin name is also Jalapa and produce big roots - it's not enough ? lol

Ipomoea Purga seeds in powder ????????

http://searches.milando.net/sq+ipomoea.htm

Show good leaf and sepal photos of your Mexican jalapa MG, Dany! Inquiring minds wanna see!!

it looks mirabilis to me Joseph and Dany...

Ay - was lookin' at it wit me blackberry device AAAARRR

Dany - I agree with Colin. That bloom definitely looks like a Four O'Clock bloom to me! :-)

Thats a four o'clock if ever I saw one.. I grow them all the time and have tons of pics..

lol x 10 to the twenty third..... Frank

Yes , I 've a doubt - only 50 % of the latin name it's not enough.lol

Mirabilis Jalapa of course but a cultivar - broken colour orange/dark pink, I try to select different types - it's a plant whith a lot of quality and but a lot of volunteers.
Dany

Dany - LOL! I can't get rid of the Mirabilis jalapa in my yard that are growing wild. I have a bunch in 3 large pots which I love near my back door, but somehow the seeds wind up in other parts of my yard. Don't know if the squirrels are carrying and dropping them all over the place or what ... They are one of my favorite scented flowers! With 3 pots full of them blooming in the evening ... such a sweet smell and makes you want to stay outside to breathe the fragrant air. :-)

yep. I just started them this last year and they multilpied which I loved, but was surprised at their ferocity, very much like MG volunteeers...they do travel! Sorry yo to take the thread off track more~
d

Been growing those for years and years and I try to knock the seeds into a tray before they get knocked out by the wind or birds.. animals and birds do not eat them.. they form tubers that come back year after year as well.. I had Mgs climbing one plant that was five ft tall up by the back porch.. cool looking!

same thing happens to the Mexican Petunias~they turn into Bamboo canes where there are none and The odd MG seed climbs on up....lol

Waitning for AuntB to get herre so we can go see Tropicman and his wife in wichita, and then down to see Merpeg, in oklahoma.. whoo hoo..
I love to meet my net friends ...
the little white planters I put together are sprouting nicely.. need to find a paint that will not peel off the plastic.. any suggestions?

wish I had one of those cool mgs that grow tubers real big and come back every year.. I swear I am going on as many road trips as possible all spring in hopes of finding wild mgs..
I love my mexican petunia and can't wait to get it back outside..I think I want to find a small kansas native white bindweed to grow around them..

Debra - LOL! I am reading about your "Mexican Petunia" and I am thinking ... oh that sounds familiar ... I have to look that species up on the internet. Well, I had to laugh when I saw a photo of the plant. They grow like weeds here! I have a bunch of them in my front garden bed in front of the livingroom window. They are considered invasive in Florida, I guess because they do spread out, but I've had mine for several years and they aren't any thicker. I have to prune them back several times a year because they get taller than I like them to be. Did you know that they are so easy to propagate?: When I prune them, I take the pruned stems and just stick them in the dirt (mostly sandy top soil and water regularly until they get established) and they will develop roots in a few weeks and grow like they were there all along. LOL!

Darren - I bet that does look nice to have MGs growing up the Petunia stalks! :-)