Bokashi (fermented food/garden waste) Composting Discussion

I can add yard trimmings from roses, cannas, lemmon grass, etc. I am hoping to get some beer mash from the local brewery, but I haven't had a chance to ask them yet. I know the beer mash would help a lot and I am hoping it's free.

Mary Lee,
Tell the San Antonia store to order it from HQ. They are supposed to have it in the floral department. They will get it in for you in a week, depending on their delivery schedule.

Since the mash will be very wet, you will need to add something to dry it out. The sawdust would work fine. You also said in the other topic forum that you have access to lots of leaves. Grind them up and use them. You can use the liquid in the mash in place of water in the bokashi recipes, so just add some EM1 and molasses and mix in to the mash.

Another thing you might want to try is to make your own deodorizer spray with the lemon grass. Mix 1/2 cup EM1, 1/2 cup molasses into a gallon of water. Add a handful of the lemon grass and let if ferment. The extract, after fermenting for about 3 weeks, will have a nice lemon smell. You can dilute this with fresh water at 1 ounce per quart of water and use as a freshener/deodorizer. It would also make for a nice window cleaner...
Eric

Thanks Eric, I put that last post in my gardening journal for future reference.

Of course I have a question.lol Are you saying if I want to make more EM1, I can add the 1 cup EM1 and molasses to some mash (a gallon?) and then let that ferment?

About the leaves, I don't have any way to grind them up other than the lawnmower, and when we use that it cuts them up so small that I can't even see them at all anymore. They disappear into the grass. Hmmm unless I could use the leaf blower. It did come with a collection bag, but I think it only sucks them up. I don't think there's anything there to do any grinding. I
would have to put them in whole.

I just talked to somebody at Whole Foods and she said they are expecting to get EM1 in about a week.

Hi Mary Lee,
The recipe I mentioned is along the lines of what we call "activated EM1". You take EM1 and multiply it by feeding the microbes sugar and water. Once you mix, you ferment in a closed container, exactly like making wine or beer. You use warm water and keep it in a warm place. In about 5-10 days the Activated EM1 is ready to use. All the application rates for EM1 and AEM1 are interchangeable. This is how 1 liter of EM1 can make about 1,000lbs of bokashi or 5 gallons of AEM1. We have the activation instructions laid out in detail on the EM America website. We also have categorized applications out in major categories: Environment, Agriculture, Household, and Health.

You can mow up the leaves...and the grass while you're at it...rake it up and use that as the dry material. If you have green material, it will cause heat, so be prepared to turn the pile every day or two. To avoid having to do this, you'd be best off using dried material(no greens). Green equals Nitrogen and nitrogen heats up.

You can also use the EM1 in cut flower water to extend their life. You use only 1 teaspoon per gallon of water....

Check out this article in Ode Magazine on Effective Microorganisms.

http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/3/little_organisms_big_revolution

Anyone ever try spraying EM on mold - as in the mold that comes from floods. My office at work has a spot on the wall about 24 inches square that is moldy. It smells, and it may be coincidental, but I've had increased allergy symptoms since I was moved into this office 5 months ago. The owner has been saying they're going to cut it out ..... but so far it never happens. If I could neutralize it myself I'd do it. What do you think. I have a new bottle of EM1 I got at Whole Foods.

Mary

Mary, you may want to read some of the disaster relief articles on the emerica website. They used EM to treat building after flooding in several areas to prevent mold.

http://www.emamerica.com/data/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=135&Itemid=184

This would be a good topic for a new thread on using EM for disaster relief (even if the disaster is a moldy office. Care to start one?

Assuming it's drywall, I'd get an Exacto knife and cut it out myself, and get it out of the building and into the trash, Mary. Then treat what is leftover with your EM1...mold has "invisible" threads -- that's how it grows and spreads. So you'd be spraying mold, just that you can't see it.

Then call the owner and say that the guys came and cut out the piece last week, but they didn't finish the job. (Yes, sometimes lies are called for.)

Suzy

Good thinking Suzy! Mold can be very detrimental to your health and since the landlord seems to be less than enthusiastic about doing what he's suppose to do in a timely manner. You need to move to protect yourself. Just tell him the c--p was making you sick and had to go!

This morning I took the lid off the Bokashi Bran I made and !!! green mould !!! Not a lot but there none the less. When I checked the destructions above and on the emamerica site is says:

Yuck! LOL!!!!

Hi - I'd remove the part that is green and either dry it or toss it. If the bosashi seems to be too wet you could add some sawdust or other dry medium. If the problem was air, seal it up tighter.

katiebear

I totoally agree Dean, but my first response was @#$%!

Katie, I think the problem was moisture. I've tossed out the green bits and had it airing in the sun today. Tomorrow i'll try spreading it out on a tarp to dry it faster. I was planning on adding it to the chooks feed and bedding but I don't want to do that if it gets any worse.

How does this batch smell?
How wet was the bran when you sealed the bucket?
I'm thinking that your batch might have had too much moisture and too little EM culture in it. Are you confident that the seal on the container was airtight?

I'm attaching a photo that shows the contents of my most recent Bokashi bucket, after two weeks of fermenting undisturbed. Notice the white mold. When I opened the bucket, there was hardly any smell. If I leaned closely, it had an slightly sharp aroma similar to the rind of a Brie cheese. This bucket will be emptied on top of some shredded newspaper in the wormbin tomorrow.

You can try sprinkling some sugar on it and resealing it to see firsthand how this affects the fermentation. Personally, I would use your current batch for garden compost purposes and start another batch to use in the chicken feed rather than risk the green mould making them sick. You can always add some of the EM mother culture to the chickens drinking water. There is some info on the EM site that gives proportions.

This thread is taking a long time to load. Perhaps we could have new thread on using EM with animals/livestock?

New thread is here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/821756/

Hey folks!
I've been away on business.

I took a lot of the disaster cleanup stuff off the EM America site to avoid problems with the EPA. EM1 is not EPA approved, so we have to play it safe and avoid making claims before we get approved to do so...

As for the bokashi, take out the green stuff and make sure the rest is not too wet.

Got a busy week ahead, but will check in a little here and there.
Eric

I was wondering if I could add some earthworms to my bokashi bucket ?Thanks.:-)

I wouldn't if you are referring to the bucket in which you are actively fermenting the Bokashi. No air for one - this is an anaerobic fermentation process. Straight Bokashi would be too acidic for their delicate worm complexions too. You need to mix it with the worm bedding or put it in the ground.

correct, worms need air and the bucket would be lacking that.

Bokashi notes:

There are a lot of interesting comments in this thread. It is important to keep in mind that bokashi fermentation should be done correctly under truly anaerobic conditions. It is exceptionally rapid and efficient producing a high quality nutrient end product without any production of gases to pollute the air.

Both composting and wormeries are pretty toxic when you do the analysis, the former producing a lot of heat, carbon dioxide, and typically in home composting methane and nitrous oxide too. The gases emitted are strong contributors to greenhouse heating of the planet. And neither of those methods produce a product as nutrient rich as bokashi fermentation.

Worms produce large amounts of nitrous oxide in their digestion of material as it passes the gut which is related to the microbes they use in the process. They account for 1/3 of the total nitrous oxide released to the atmosphere and are considered by many experts as pollluting as landfill operations because nitrous oxide is ~ 310 times as efficient at heat trapping as carbon dioxide.

Since bokashi fermentation produces NO gases, and fixes carbon in the soil at nearly 100%, it is obvious it is far superior to the other alternatives in how it helps in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and heating of the planet.

With the municipalities, cities, and counties plans to force residents to separate the organic waste from the garbage (a good thing) now in process, the advantages of bokashi are even more evident. You won't have to pay the officials involved in the process to haul it away where they want to produce methane or compost, both of which are very polluting (definitely not a good thing).

Larry Green

Hi Larry! Welcome aboard. I see that you have just recently subscribed to Daves Garden. How long have you been using the Bokashi method for composting? Do you have any stories from the "trenches" that you'd like to share with us?

Larry and garden_mermaid,

Welcome Larry! Wow! This thread has been dead a while. Thanks for reviving it.

It's my first time back to Dave's Garden in several months. So I was going through the slew of post and noticed this one.

The main City I live closest to, Austin, is attempting to do what San Francisco, has done. There looking at I want to say 99% recycling. I watched a program once before that showed how San Francisco has huge compost piles at landfill areas. They use all sorts of organic scarps, shreddings which they obtain from business and homes. They had these mounded up in large piles which they turn with tractors. To help cook the compost they place heavy duty black plastic a top the piles. Later they sell this compost to wineries for use on their vines.

Sorry, I know this doesn't have to with Bokashi, but I thought it had some relevance to the landfill problems were facing.

Regards,
Dean

I think all the counties around SF have municipal composting the yard wastes etc. The waste management depot here in Sunnyvale sorts all incoming garbage on large conveyor belts to pull out potential recyclable materials and catch hazardous waste that was improperly disposed. We can recycle glass, aluminum, multiple types of plastic, mixed papers (e.g. junk mail, magazines & cereal boxes), newspapers, cardboard & batteries. There just isn't enough space to make new landfills and we need to be careful about what goes into the landfills to minimize what might leach into the Bay.

Thanks garden_mermaid, it's also good to hear from you again. Yes, that's what I think Austin, TX, wants to do. You all have led the way and their trying to follow you all.

Lots of folks in California are making good use of the Texas manual on rainwater harvesting. Always good to share gardening & environmental care techniques.

I was really inspired by the EM video that showed Japans success in cleaning up the pollution in the inland Seto Sea. Hopefully one day we can do that for the water in the SF Bay and coastal oceans.

With the weather as cold as it's been here, I could go for some global warming right now. My compost pile & my composter are both nice and big, so I'm trying to do my part. Maybe I oughta exhale more too.

If you have too many worms to suit you, I'll gladly take 'em.

Hi Garden mermaid, Dean W. and others on the thread.........

I really wanted to talk a lot more about Bokashi, but was told by those who control the blog and thread that they would not allow me to post many comments. They already removed one of my blogs as it appears it goes against their belief about composting and green house gas production. Facts are facts and composting does pollute, is not easy, and is an inferior method of recycling relative to bokashi fermentation. There are some great posts out of Australia and New Zealand and some very good scientific studies showing the higher growth rate and yields for plants.

I've done a lot of research in this area and apparently because I'm involved in producing culture mixes and systems the "censors" don't want to hear what I might say hinting that it is all just a bunch of commercial advertising. My view is all of you are perfectly capable of making your own decisions and evaluating the facts, and in a free and open forum it would be great to have a good discussion on this topic. Maybe if enough people complain, Dave's board will change policy and allow scientific open debates when there is a difference in opinions as opposed to censoring.

I'm pretty confident that those who have tried bokashi fermentation know by first hand experience it is not only easy, but great for your plants. And its kind of nice to know in the process you are not polluting or messing up the planet.

What did they tell you, exactly?

EMEric has ties to www.emamerica.com and had some problems with his early posts as I think he was mentioning specific products from there. I was a bit emarrassed as I had bugged him to join as there were a lot of questions and not many people with a lot of experience. After some discussion with Administration and some editing of his early posts he has been able to stay within their guidelines, answer questions, and stay within their guidelines. He has, in fact, become an enthusiatic supporter of DG and does as much spreading the word about DG to others as he does about bokashi and related subjects here.

To me, it is sort of like religion. You're probably safe talking about your beliefs but it's probably best not to criticise others' beliefs even if you have a scientific basis for doing so.

Most of the people I know who have taken the plunge on bokashi and similar composting methods become instant converts and spread the word to their friends. (See AlohaHoya's posts for a great example of this.)

katiebear

Larry, if you read the acceptable use guidelines (AUG) for Dave's Garden, you will have an idea of the discussion parameters. You need to be able to discuss the benefits of Bokashi and your specific experiences on the forum without promoting a particular product or denigrating other composting methods in your discussion.

As katiebear mentioned, EMEric has been very helpful in helping us improve our use of the Effective/Efficient microbes and Bokashi in an acceptable manner.

Hi--
I concur with the above two posts. Here on DG, it's safer and ultimately more compelling to present the facts about Bokashi and its effective/efficient microbes, than it is to criticize other forms of composting.
I learned about Bokashi composting on DG about a year ago. Now I utilize my Bokashi buckets for my food waste, AND my Biostack bins for green and brown garden wastes. I find that I need both systems.
Larry, I welcome your expertise for questions we might have about the Bokashi method. For instance: does pouring the leachate from my buckets in winter into my sink really help my septic tank? I can't use it as a diluted fertilizer because it's winter outside!

Hi CapeCodGardener,

Thanks all for the good advice.

With regards to helping your septic tank....yes it does. You can't harm it by putting a lot in it, but a minimal treatment every 3 months is good insurance. The microbes which function where the oxygen tension is very very low as it would be in a septic tank are most active and capable of digesting sludge and other material that accumulates in the tank and lines. Most importantly, it will help keep the field lines clear and that can be a great relief. If you've ever had to have someone come in and replace the field, you will know having blockage in the field is a most unwelcome event. Good luck keeping things clear.

Larry

Hey, thank you, Larry! You have answered my question fully AND explained what goes on in my septic tank--which I was never so interested in until I started learning about effective micro-organisms.
Thank you so much!

bumping this thread so maybe we can get some more experienced users to post their findings during all of this!!

I had a couple weeks off in February 2008 because of surgery, and this thread kept me from being bored and got me started. It really works pretty well, even in my lousy clay and rock soil.

Hi! I just re-read this great thread and was amazed at how much I learned from it when I started out. Thanks to everyone who so generously shared their experiences.

I've been "bokashi-ing" now since Dec. 07. I've somehow earned a reputation as a good gardener in my neighborhood and I am CONVINCED that it's because of the results I get from using Bokashi-compost--not from any natural green thumb ;-)

Here's what works for me: I compost every last kitchen scrap (sprinkled with Bokashi bran in layers) into a Bokashi bucket with a drain. I remove the leachate every 5-6 days and in winter, pour it down my drains. During the growing season, I dilute it and use this as fertilizer on my plants. When the Bokash bucket is full, I dump the fermented contents (now covered with nice white mold!) into another ordinary 5-gal. bucket with a tight lid, after having tossed a few handfuls of coir in the bottom to absorb any further Bokashi-juice. When it was too cold to compost them this winter, I just kept filling up 6 big buckets of these fermented scraps in my garage with no problems and no smell. If I had a larger family, I'd probably have more buckets!! (DH just rolls his eyes.)

I myself do not use the trench method of burying my Bokashi scraps, mostly for lack of room in my garden beds. Rather, from mid-March up until mid-December I bury the fermented scraps in my covered compost bins that I am filling all year with browns and greens. I'm already seeing worms there. I guess they come to enjoy the microbes on the Bokashi-buffet, and they stay around to help compost the other materials they find!! I will toss my compost every few weeks which helps to distribute the worms.

I'm late to this party but very interested in beneficial microorganisms.

I also need to apologize in advance for not having read every post in this thread, but wondered if the use of newspaper which has been treated with lacto bacillium (or the whey from yogurt) in lieu of EM soaked bran has already been discussed.

I don't recall that topic specifically. It would be interesting to do a side by side bucket comparison of food scraps fermented with whey soaked newspaper versus bokashi bran or a mist of AEM. Are you using the whey-newspaper technique now?

No, I'm not bokashi composting at all but am interested in trying it. I found the info on www.bokashicomposting.com while looking for info on lacto bacillius in the garden. It was there that I found that the whey could be used instead of collecting the LB from the air.

I also think it would be interesting to do a test with the whey from kefir as it also contains yeasts ( or at least the kefir does, so I'm assuming it is in the whey, too.) and em has yeasts/fungi and lb in the mix.

penny, please start a new thread in this forum for the "make your own bokashi culture" topic. It think this would be a great topic to explore. This particular thread is getting rather long and takes a long time to load for those on dial up.

Thank you for the link. It's an interesting site.