Bokashi (fermented food/garden waste) Composting Discussion

Maypop: EM1 isn't in the box stores...yet. The Home Depot decided their customers wouldn't buy it, so they decided not to carry it. The largest natural food chain carries it. There are a total of about 100 retail stores in the US that currently carry EM1. Most are in Southern California.

maypop, if there are any other interested persons near you, perhaps you could do a bulk order to save shipping costs. Keep in mind also, that when you brew a batch of activated EM, you will be getting a much larger quantity of solution that you will actually use. Depending on what you are going to use it for, you will probably dilute that even further in use.

I made my first batch of bokashi a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure it was done "right" but it smelled Ok so yesterday I put it a couple of inches deep on the top of a barrel (40 gallons, I think - a big blue one) of stuff - largely fish waste - that I had been keeping sealed. I ould not have believed the results if I hadn't seen it - I opened the barrel today to see if there was room for the fish scraps my fisherman friend brought me and was overwhelmed - by the lack of smell. Anyone who has smelledd rotting fish knows what that odor is like. To have it almost gone in less than a day just by putting the bokashi on top of the mess is amazing. I didn't (couldn't) stir it in or anything. Also - no flies. I am truly impressed.

I bought my EM1 which I used too make the bokacshi from www.emamerica.com. I got one gallon and making the huge batch of bokashi used only about a quart so I think it's an economical way to go. I can tell I'm going to want a good sprayer and I will join Eric in the battle cry: FREMENT THE PLANET!!!!.

And, no, I am not affiliated with emamerica. I was told about EM1 by a friend who lives in India. They are using it at Amache's ashram and some of the products are sold in her store. My friend takes it internally though it is not intended for this use. The website is really interesting. I've just started studying the medical and health applications.

I will be making some bokashi balls to use in the river down the hill from me. Maybe we can clean up the Sea of Cortez.

katiebear

Pardon my typo. It's "FERMENT THE PLANET!!!"

I've got six dogs and I'm going to bokashi (I've just turned this into a verb) their droppings so I can use them in the garden. I look forward to telling people that my gardening "secret" is fermented dog poop!

katiebear

Way to go, katie!!! I'll bet your earthworms are thrilled.
I look forward to hearing more about your experiences.

Dog poop? Can you really use it?

As I understand, it gets pickled like everything else and becomes OK to use. (If I'm misinformed, Eric will speak up - he's our expert.)

katiebear

I am thrilled to find so many interested and doing this
I am doing it also and still learning
and to think I had posted else where on DG back in Sept. asking if anyone else had tried ti and used it and they thought I was nuts and told me the only way to compost was the "classic way"...NO kitchen waste ie leftovers LOL

Thanks for letting me know I'm not nuts
Or else we are all nuts ( in the good sense) for using whatever our waste is to improve and put back to the earth what is taken away.

Fermentation is a way to preserve things and out-compete pathogens. The EPA would not agree on this (they have to regulate things that do this and call them Pesticides). The FDA would agree that this is the way to protect foods from pathogens. Either way you look at it, fermentation with EM1 prevents the growth of pathogens by dropping pH below 3.8 (the FDA has a regulation below 4.5 at which pathogens cannot grow in foods). There is a complex process that goes on involving frequencies (vibrations, etc.) that I don't completely understand, but am learning.

Eric, have you read any of Phillip Callahan's work on paramagnetism?
This article gives an brief history/overview of his work:
http://froebuck.home.texas.net/newpage3.htm

Amazon link to tuning into nature:
http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Nature-Philip-S-Callahan/dp/0911311696/ref=pd_sim_b_title_1

You did know that those elaborate antennae on the moths & butterflys etc are radio frequency antennae, right? :)

wow soo much to read I missed the fire ants and you bet ya I would report back ...when I got Posion Ivy back in Sept of course I had to get rid of ti in order to work outside clearing the lot so hubby spent over $50 in spray to kill it and in that he also bought stuff to put on the hills to try and get rid of the lovely fire ants..I sure do not want to spent that much every year on ants..the PI I'm not worried about .. ants yes

now off to bed I have to go as I get up at 4ish to get ready to drive a school bus every morning but I will be back to catch up on my reading so someone make a post by 9am so I remember to come back and read everything LOL

Eric, when you said that EM is fungistatic, does that apply to all fungi or just the pathogenic ones? I'm thinking of two topics here - 1) growing edible mushrooms and 2) the affect on VAM (Vesicular-Arbuscular-Mycorrhiza) in the soil, which are very important. How does EM affect these beneficial types of fungi?

I have a 5 gallon bucket of daffodil bulbs that have basal rot (Fusarium oxysporum). I just sprinkle bokashi on top of the slimy mess and it will be ready to use in my garden by spring? Right now it stinks!

Suzy

P.S. I didn't see a confirmation from Eric on the dog poop question. Post #4377543

Illoquim, what do you mean when you say you "didn't see a confirmation from Eric on the dog poop question"?

He said the fermentation out-competes pathonogens which are the possible problem with dog poop. I think. Eric?

katiebear

mmm....

Daffies: Sometimes things are too far gone to save. Next time, when you do transplants, you can dunk into a solution of AEM1 before planting. This is not soaking, but dunk and plant. You could do the same with bulbs. Once you build a really rich soil, you shouldn't have problems with bulbs and should side dress with mulch.

BTW, for all you bokashi fiends, you can add bone meal, kelp meal, blood meal, whatever you want for certain plants.

Hi G_M,
Fungistatic effects interesting when it comes to mushroom growing. There is a research paper out of Brazil that demonstrates a 4-fold increase in mycorrhizal fungi.

Yet, several mushroom farms in East Asia have reported that they cannot grow mushrooms by inoculating with EM1. The method for growing mushrooms is to make bokashi out of the growing medium and then steam sterilize it before inoculating with spores.

When one makes bokashi, there is a white mold that grows (White good; black/green bad). This is a filiamentus fungi called actinomycetes. Actinomycetes used to be in the EM1 culture, but have been removed from the formulation because they grow in the presence of EM1 and, therefore, do not need to be in the culture.

So, it is a matter of learning the correct method.

But what about the dog poop?

kb

Yes. Fermentation suppresses the growth of pathogens and prevents them from growing uncontrolled. Dog poop, cat poop, human poop, when done properly, they are all safe to make. We have done this time and again with turkey, chicken, and other manures. Once made into bokashi, there are no detectable pathogens.

However, if you really aren't getting lab tests done on these materials after they are fermented, you should only use them for non-food sources. I am pretty sure no one is going to be sending their stuff to a lab to get tested, so just use them materials on ornamentals (flowers, non-fruiting trees, etc.).

In composting, the heat is what is supposed to control the pathogens. There are EPA regulations for composting that require a certain amount of turns and a certain temperature (55C) to be maintained for a certain time ( I forget what it is) to basically pasteurize the compost. When this is not done properly, things like fusarium (and other fungi that are harmful to plants) can grow or excess amounts of ammonia and methane can be produced. This can be (another forum topic) a problem with making compost teas. If you do not have a high quality, pathogen-free compost, you could easily be brewing pathogen tea. It has happened several times across the country...even with commercial operations.

Thanks!

Suzy

My friendly neighborhood fisherman brought me a bunch of fish scraps a couple of months ago. I put tem in a sealed barrel. The flies still came around.

When I made my first batch of bokashi a month or so ago, the fish barrel got a bunch - just on top, I couldn't stir this mess.

Rafael the Fisherman brought more fish scraps the other day so I decided to empty the barrel and start over.

This was not a pleasant task but I was amazed at how little fish odor there was. I buried a lot of it, not very deep. Both the mango and the orange tree which got fed perked up within two days.

My dogs have not shown any interest in digging the stuff up which is another bonus. I do not see any increase in the number of flies that are around.

I'm happy with this. My desert soil needs all the help I can give it and this seems to be a great booster.

katiebear

I just mixed up my first batch of EM 1 to let it ferment. I already have the Wheat Bran and molasses, so I am ready to make some Bokashi mix.

When you use the EM 1 for hose end spraying, do you use it full strength or do use use the fermented mixture?

I am so new to this stuff that I have to ask lots of questions! Thanks for any advice you have!

Pat

I think you can do either. The big reason to ferment your own mixture is to increase the "bang for your buck."

katiebear

P.S. Don't apologise for being new or asking questions.

I had never heard of EM1 until last June.

We count on Eric to guide us out of misinformation or lack of information as he has been working with it for a long time.

kb.

1.3 oz per gallon is what my gallon bottle of the EM-1( already fermented) I got back in September says for the mixture for watering your trees lawns and plants outside. so when using the sprayer with the hose I would mix it using that as your base amount.

Eric where are you to give the totally correct answer LOL

Thanks so much katiebear and Mibus2! I am really excited and ready to get started! I will be back with more questions, I am sure!

Pat

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to mention that I couldn't afford the 5 gallon buckets on the EMAmerica site, so I went to the local Hardware store (Carpenter;s) and found an orange 5 gallon bucket with a spigot at the bottom for $24.95. It doesn't have a screen that separates the compost from the liquid, but would it be alright to use? (It was a Rubbermaid water "cooler".)

Pat

It sounds fine. I found some great containter with easy-tremove tight fittting lids. The don't have a spigot. You could us something like a cake rack in the bottom to keep the solids above the liquid. I think that is to keep the smell down, which draining the liquid also does, I think.

Hope Eric checks in to make sure I'm ot steering you wrong. I suspect the fancy buckets are more for yuppies that won't believe it's working unless they've paid a lot but it may help keep odors from forming.

Eric?

katiebear

Your orange bucket should be fine. I have both the expensive Happy Farmer bucket and two standard 5 gallon buckets (with airtight lids) from OSH hardware. They all seem to work as well. I do put more dry Bokashi mixture on the bottom of the regular buckets.

Pat, you may want to brew up a batch of activated/extended EM and then try using both the mother culture (from the company bottle) and the extended brew in your hose end sprayer to see which gives you better results. My current garden area isn't big enough to warrant a hose end sprayer. I mix the extended brew with water in a watering can to drench the soil, and also mix some up in the pump sprayer to spray on the leaves. My collard greens really took off after the last EM application.

I highly recommend downloading the free Mother Culture Usage Guide and EM Activation Instructions from this site (downloads from SCDWorld site)
http://www.scdworld.net/category_s/77.htm

These two downloads will give you some good basic information to start with.

For Lawn & Garden purposes, the general recommendation was 2 Tbsp per gallon as soil drench of foliar spray. They advise against spraying on blossoms at that strength to avoid blossom drop. I use 2 Tbsp per gallon on the soil and about half that for foliar spraying. No real reason for that difference. I was using a new sprayer and forgot it had twice the capacity of my old sprayer. The lower concentration worked fine, so I went with it.

When you brew up a batch of activated EM, you do need to use it up within a month.
The mother culture seems to keep well. My last bottle of mother culture was used up over the course of a year.

I have to say that I am completely pumped that an EM and bokashi thread is on this forum. I have been using this Godsend for almost a year and have had positive results. I have seen a couple of drops of pure AEM remove rust from a C-clamp in a matter of hours, which indicates a very powerful antioxidant, in my opinion. Sometimes the strainer in the bottom of the Happy Farmer Bokashi Bucket allows solids thru which can clog the spigot. If this occurs, foul odors can result, especially if using meat products. Even when this had happened, I simply added home made bokashi to the freshly dig trench in the garden, poured the foul compost from the bucket into it, and then added another layer of bokashi, covered with soil. Weeks later, the soil looked very healthy. As a matter of fact.......my Mexican Marigolds, which were growing adjacent to the bokashi compost trench, shot up and out like crazy. Within a month, they migrated over the trench, nearly quadrupling their surface area, and grew to a height well above my waist. I now have two buckets, and am even fermenting coffee grounds (with some food scraps) which I have been adding to the garden all winter.

Welcome to the EM/Bokashi thread jimmyd!
Most my Bokashi buckets have fermented along nicely. I did have one go bad - probably not enough Bokashi or EM spray, but I buried it in the ground and drenched the area with more EM after covering it. Everything looked really good and smelled good when I dug down to check it a week later.

Welcome to the thread jimmyd glad you found it.

I am thrilled so many are finding their way over here and there are so many using it or starting to try it.
I found EM-1 when searching to find ways to be able to improve the soil when we moved here the end of July from Illinois.
I just brewed up a batch of activated/extended EM for the first time and am in the process of getting everything needed to make up more Bokashi.
I had gotten mine from the "manager" that lives here in East Texas.
DH is starting to see the results of using it and is getting the idea of what to put in the bucket instead of the trash LOL

Hi All,
Sorry, I've been a bit pre-occupied with day-to-day stuff, trying to update the websites... I put up about 4 new sections on bokashi in January after going through this and some of the other topics.

The use of other buckets is fine. You should get a cover that fits tightly. A paint shop will sell a clear one that will keep the contents of the buckets air tight.. The tops (usually used to keep paint from getting a "skin" on it) only cost about few dollars. They are really easy to pry off. Here is something like it: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=24&product%5Fid=20667

Eric

Thanks for that info Eric, we have a Bokashi bucket and EM on the way in. Found it difficult located merchants selling the starter kits for something less than a small fortune, sigh. But finally found one. We'll go to the other bucket deal. DH is pretty hand and even I can run the drill and put in a hole for the spigot.

The new buckets (they are a brown-ish color with a dark green lid) come from Japan. The plastic is made with the EMX ceramic powder in it. The powder helps with fermentation. These two reasons are why the buckets are so expensive. I think they run about $49.99. I know some places sell them for as much as $75.

I no longer use the bucket system and only make bokashi when I have lots of trimmings and other plant materials around the year. I now just bury the food waste in the ground and spray with EM1 or add some EM1 in a bowl of water (used for rinsing veggies) and pour over the food waste before covering it.
Eric

Ah, I see. I think maybe this will make more sense to me with a bit of hands on. I'm very visual and sometimes it just doesn't get thru. LOL

If you look on Google Video, (http://video.google.com), search for "Effective Microorganisms", and you will find about 34 videos on the uses of EM1. People are adding more videos now than a few months ago. I think there are a couple on Bokashi from a group out in Maryland.

The EM Bokashi Network USA used to have a video that detailed the entire process. It was designed for elementary school kids for their foodwaste recycling programs. Because of copywrites, it can't be loaded into Google Video or YouTube.

Wow, I didn't know you didn't have to go threw the bucket system first.