Helleborus preparing to bloom...

So you can see the mix of the red-spotted white with the orientalis in this beauty, open a little more today.

Thanks Donna!

Wallaby, so if I understand it well, the red-white Ashwood hybrid and the 'Queen of the Night' are not orientalis ?
Perhaps in the past you had only the Ashwood hybrid and then that would explain why the offspring turned out almost the same ?
This whole process of pollination is still mysterious to me.
If I had done it and then a bee or insect also pollinated the same stamen with other pollen, how are the different gene codes transmitted to the seeds in the same seed pod ?

I love the beautiful vein pattern of your pink-red orientalis and your newly born has inherited it .

Both hybrids will most likely have different species involved, there was a link on the thread last year which told the story of Queen of The night if I can find it.

This is the site which I'm sure QOTN was mentioned but I can't find it there, this page on hybridising is interesting and explains a lot.

http://www.hellebores.org/hybridization/selection.html

I found the site eventually, similar web name! I put a link to it in PlantFiles luckily,

http://www.hellebore.com/orientalis/orientalis/ohq.html

This is the original Ashwood Hybrid,

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3208259

Some that I grew from it in flower last year,

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3198213

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3198224

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=2087057

This is H. orientalis 'Red Shades' as it was labelled, last year, but I don't think that was a name as such,

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3198126

That was a nice trip back :~)

I can't answer your question about multiple pollination, nature has many tricks up it's sleeve! In some cases the plant wouldn't accept pollen after it was pollinated, but there are often deviations from the rule. I don't know if Hellebores will accept more than one lot of pollen.

I did only have the one Hellebore, Ashwood hybrid, but that doesn't usually guarantee all or any of the offspring will be the same or even similar. In this case they were all similar, which seems to be the case with Hellebores if no other is available, but most hybrids can throw back completely different offspring with characteristics from any of the plants involved in the breeding.

That's indeed a very interesting article wallaby!

I'm afraid I'm getting hooked lol...
I'm thinking of soooo many possibilities now like crossing the Helleborus lividus with one of the orientalis or perhaps even Helleborus foetidus with orientalis, or the silvermoon , or the x sternii.....

But I would not be interested to reach a stable line as it is so wonderful that they all differ..

Nice link you gave where QOTN is described, I've been reading all the others too, just a pitty there are no pictures beside them, I'll have to do a further search and perhaps I might succeed in ID all my unnamed ones.
The last three I bought had labels; they are all 'Wilgenbroek Selection'; the yellow green one simply called 'Yellow', the pink one 'Dark'(which is not really true) and the last one 'Picotee'

Sadly my Helleborus abruzzicus has disappeared, I'm going to try to get another one from the same grower, he has many specie hellebores and it's the same one who also grows martagon and other lilies..
I've never seen it in flower, but I like its foliage..
This is it last year

The three seedlings from your ancestress Ashwood Hybrids are lovely, I like the second one the best..

Lol, I am the same, now discovering the species Hellebores and finding them just as interesting. It's the same as with species Dahlias, Lilium, Gladiolus and Hippeastrum, I'm quite hooked on them all and actually prefer the species of those (apart from a few very desirable hybrids).

It's difficult to say with Hellebores that the species are preferable though, as so many hybrids are desirable! They end up as 'species specifics' lol, I will have to call them that now instead of hybrids.

Look at the pics of some species, H. torquatus has the darkest flower, it would probably grow much larger in cultivation with good conditions. They all have lovely foliage too.

http://www.hellebores.org/helleborus/species.html

Helleborus abruzzicus is amazing, it has rare double flowers too, I imagine it is the source of double flowering hybrids. I think it's beautiful as it is (love the deep green flowers), but how interesting it would be to try breeding with it. I'm imagining my last seedling with the pink, green and few red spots being crossed with it, that would be a real WOW if I could do it.

http://www.hellebores.org/abruzzicus.html

How I wish I was near your nursery! Or it was near me, lol, a goldmine of species plants. I may start to beg seeds from you of your species Hellebores!

I like the second of the spotted Ashwood seedings too, but the others have some merit. I have worked out what it is with my newest spotted seedling, the spots are more separated and rounder. The Ashwood and it's seedlings have more dash-like marks, mostly joining together. This is possibly influenced from 'Red Shades', for the first time I have noticed some small spots near the centre of that. It has also come through in the last pink/green one with it's few rounded spots, it seems it has the best mix of characteristics from the two.

Thank you for so much good info regarding hellebores and hybridizing. would love to be able to outside right now and put into action, but alas too much snow and cold.

Donna

Yes, wallaby, that's true. I also have a natural tendency to prefer species to hybrids, but some of these Hellebore hybrids are so irresistible...
Nice name 'species specifics' you invented for them!

I see in the link you gave about the different species, Helleborus lividus is mentioned twice as one of the parents, a main part of its attraction is its really beautiful patterned foliage

I didn't know that Helleborus abruzzicus had double flowers!
Usually I prefer single flowered plants, but this one is really beautiful!
Wow the plant is gorgeous when fully grown! Now I definitely want it back and will pamper it with ripe leaf mould and so on.. Perhaps the grower has some mature enough to bloom this year, who knows.. I'll have to pull the sleeve of my gentle brother to bring me to there..lol.
If he still has them then is there not a quicker way to provide you with the plant than through seeds ? Perhaps a division of it I could send?


On the flower market last Sunday they also had a lot of these double flowered hybrids, but I found them too artificial looking, they didn't really charm me enough to fall for them.

I also once had Helleborus odorus many years ago (from the same grower) with apple green flowers but also lost it probably from bad drainage, lack of experience and knowledge..


It felt very cold here too Donna today, a miserable day with nasty north-east winds, some rain and no sun.. sigh....

Helleborus abruzzicus doesn't have double flowers as standard, but on the rare occasion it can have them. It is a very attractive double, I am not lured by most doubles either but there is an occasional beauty.

If you manage to get a plant of H abruzzicus, and it has enough divisions to take one off then that would be great but I wouldn't want you to damage the plant. I'm not sure how easily they divide. Yes you must pamper these beauties, lol, they are worth it!

I still have 6 seedlings Of H. lividus, one is growing a proper leaf, it's strange no more germinated but that is enough. The pattern is very strong from the beginning, I can see why it's used for breeding.

We have cold winds here too, but not as cold as you have Donna. I heard something pelting the window this morning, sounded like sharp frozen sleet. Snow is expected in places tomorrow.

Yes, its strange that only 6 germinated of the H.Lividus, I only had sown 3 and 2 came up and one has already a proper leaf and the second is making one. Perhaps the difference is that I had sowed them immediately after I harvested them on 22 June, they might not stay viable for long...
My plant is sulking, I find them very picky and suspect that they hate the cold wet winters over here, so they're probably best kept in a greenhouse...

The south-eastern part of WA and a strip going all the way to Canada, the north part of Idaho, declared snow emergency yesterday, due to deep snow and drifting snow. Both of the mountain passes were closed for two days, and the major one is still closed. My area has very luckily escaped serious wind and deep snow.

Yesterday I finally had to replant 10 Brugmansias that I had grown from cuttings last fall. The roots were growing out of the bottoms of the 4" pots. All of my pots are covered with 10 to 12" of snow and no paths to them anyway. I finally scrounged 10 pots from in the hiouse and gh and got them transplanted. About half had large buds almost ready to open.

Donna

Brrrr... Donna, but it must be a beautiful sight though!
At least you can dream of the beauty your Brugmansia's will reward you with , with the care you give them.

I've been reading further in the link ;
http://grahamrice.com/hellebore//cultivation/care.html
you gave earlier Wallaby, there's lot of information there,

I have never done that because it feels so unnatural and I wonder if that's really necessary ...



This message was edited Feb 1, 2008 7:13 PM

Some very interesting information about H.lividus;
http://grahamrice.com/hellebore//species/lividus/index.html

You must have very prolific Brugs Donna to have flowers at that stage at this time of year, and in small pots! It is difficult at this time of year to get anything done here too, so you have done well.

bonitin, I don't cut leaves off either. Unless there is obvious disease it's not necessary, I just pull them off when they have dried and I'm clearing up in spring. I do that with most plants, it's so much easier than cutting and the old stems etc help to protect plants over winter.

The article on H. lividus is interesting, it sounds to be rare like many other plants now. I must do my bit to help preserve it, lol, and keep them in the greenhouse and try to keep them from crossing with my xsternii.

Couldn't impossibly stop myself from buying two other H.lividus on the flower market last Sunday!
I bought two because they were slightly different..

The colour of the foliage of this one has a different tone of green

The two together to compare;

bonitin, you are so lucky to be able to go to a good flower market any time you wish. Of the two posted in same photo I like the one on the right, such nice large leaves and such a good light green color.

I take cuttings from the brugs blooming branches in late fall, which is why they bloom early and on short stalks. I used to have 50 to 60 brugs, several colors, but in this climate it is really a lot of work and usable space to carry them over, so have really cut back.

Donna

I can safe some seeds from it if you like Donna ?
Now its my turn to be jealous,lol. I imagine jou must have a huge place and garden to be able to house so many Brugmansia's..
My garden is a handkerchief-sized one; only 100 m2 + 12 m2 I managed to add in the form of an upstairs little terrace for my sunlovers planted in containers.

They are both beautiful! I have to admit the one with lime green leaves is very attractive, the leaves look very glossy too.

Impulse buying is the best sort, when you see the plants and fall in love with them!

Donna, you must be superwoman! It's difficult to get Brugs to flower here, I have one which has flowered easily but most don't like our cold spring and summers with little sun.

I have two seedlings similar to Queen of the Night but with slightly less dark stems and a little paler on some of the petals, but they are young yet. One plant has two stems completely chewed off so I won't get to see those!

The other spotted one more open.

I love the deep rich colour of the first and the lovely combination of the green with pink with the few 'taches de beauté' in the second one. They go so well together!

I have only one Brugmansia that flowered quite well even if it got hardly any sun at all..
I grew it from a tiny cutting I 'stole' from the terrace of a pub that had 5 very huge ones. (I didn't really 'stole' it, the piece was already broken and I didn't manage to ask permission as the bartender was too busy and I had to catch a bus...)

LOL, I'm pleased I'm not the only one who helps out a plant which would otherwise go to waste!

If I'm not mistaken the English name is Christhmas rose.I used to work at a nursery & knew their latin names & english It's been a long time though so I could be wrong.

That's correct Perenniallady. That name has been used here for a long time, it more often referred to H. niger which was the main one grown until all these hybrids hit the market.

Yes I do have a large yard. I have 5 1/2 acres but only garden on 2 1/2 as the rest is hillside and besides that is all the water I have and really not enough time or ambition to garden on more than that. Am trying to learn to cut down for health reasons and the fact that I am almost 82 so slowing down naturally.

wallaby just beautiful hellebores, love those colors. Got another inch of snow yesterday. Watched it snowing hard all afternoon as we played bridge. Supposed to snow again tomorrow and then warm up a bit.

Donna

Donna, I hope I'm as "slow" as you when I'm 82! You and your garden amaze me.

Janet, love those species in the links! Yours are, of course, fantastic as always :)

I've got buds on Helleborus nigercorus White Beauty and the leaves still look lovely. My Heritage strain has lots of buds but they look like the latest cold has injured them. Looks like that one needs to be moved to the other side of the house where it will get some protection from wind.

Hi Neal! My leaves are all still looking good too. Perhaps the old H. niger and it's hybrids are hardier, mine might still be alive but only just, they like alkaline conditions I believe.

Your Heritage strain might do well in a sheltered spot under trees, with lots of leaf mould incorporated in the soil, mine are under a tree in a built up bed.

Donna you amaze me too! Snow will be keeping your plants warm, then all will burst forth in spring.

My hellebores are blooming! Here's a Sunshine Farms double.

Doss, I absolutely love that helleborus, Hope I can find it to buy,

Donna

That one is hard to find as you can only buy it from Sunshine Farms and they only sell it to people who buy a lot from them. However, this Heronswood Double Pink can be purchased on line from Naylor Creek. They also carry a white double called "Mrs. Betty Ranicar"

Doss That one is beautifulIt's still snowing here so I can't wait til mine come up.Winter sure is along time this year.

They are charming Doss!

I can imagine how hard it must be Perreniallady to see every one posting their pictures while you still have to wait and wait for your sleeping beauties to wake up...

It is hard but just by looking at everyone's flowers make's be think of spring It should be here soon I seen a robin in Jan.and thought it was right around the corner We had a mlid Jan.The poor bird probrably flew back Do you have snow in Belgium.My friend was from there She passed away 4 years ago She taught me alot about plants 'Houseplants She used to give her's potoato water Her plants were Beautiful.

No snow over here Pereniallady, but had some frosted snow powder around the end of December last year.. Since then only a couple of days with light snowfall that almost instantly melted away.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your Belgian friend.
I've also heard of the method of using the potato water for house plants, but I haven't tried it myself, as i rarely eat them.

Helleborus argutifolius in my brother's garden.
The pics are from last year, but haven't been posted before. It has been transplanted a couple of months ago and it didn't like it. I've always heard that the best time for transplant is when it's in bloom. Haven't tried that out though!

detail,

So far my H.foetidus'Sopron' is doing well, not fully opened yet. I gave it an honour place in my newly created raised beds which will give me more planting space.... No sign yet though of the red rim like the plant-label showed, but perhaps that still has to come.
I'm still on the out-look for H.foetidus 'Wester Fisk', with the gorgeous purple-red stems, red-rimmed flowers and bluish-green foliage. I know of a nursery that has it listed, but it's not by the door and difficult to get there without a car... I've had it once but lost it..

Thanks Doss, the white is pretty.

Bonitin, beautiful hellebores. I can see mine now and the buds. the snow is going.

Just came upon this link, thought it was interesting;
http://www.mytho-fleurs.com/images/Delabroye/Hellebous-13-02-2005/page_01.htm