Over wintering ?

Not even sure that is the correct term. I haven't been at gardening for too very long. This year I planted some things that will need to be dug up and stored until next spring. The main one that I don't have any experience with is Dahlia. Does anyone plant these and store from year to year? Oh yeah, I am thinking that I will also need to take both canna lilies and calla lilies. What about them? anything special need to be done? When should I aim for getting them dug up and stored?

Any and all advice will be gladly taken. Is there a forum especially for overwintering?

Thanks bunches everyone.

Ruby

Ruby,

Help on the way!!!!! Do not despair!

On the Dahlias and the Cannas---Do nothing NOW! Allow the first frost to kill the tops. They will then get all yukky looking. Cut the plant stalks back, leaving about 10" of stems--on both of them.
If the Temps. are not going to stay freezing, let the plants be in the ground another 2 weeks. It is NOT likely the first frost will be a deep one. So do not worry!

Then--using a digging fork, work around the clump and try to lift the roots/rhizomes/tubers out--gently! Both plants will have made new tubers/rhizomes during the growing season that are very prone to breaking apart. Try to lift the whole clump out. DO NOT attempt to divide anything at this time!!!!

You do not want to remove all the soil from the root clump, just the excess soil. Like--give it a couple of "thumps" on the ground.
The extra soil you leave on will, actually, help in keeping the roots plumper and viable through the Winter months.

Put the dug up root clumps somewhere to dry out. You DO NOT want to store roots that are still wet! They will, surely, rot. If the weather is mild--leave them outside in a shallow box in a place that has good air movement and (maybe) a bit of sun. If not--take them inside and leave them in the open, somewhere in the house, until the whole root-clumps have dried out.

Store these dried clumps in an open box (somewhere cool and dry) covered with peat moss. You really do not need to do anything else now until early Spring.
About March, check on the root clumps. If they seem VERY dry, spray them with a bit of water now and then. This is more important for the Dahlias than the Cannas.

Whether you know it or not--Nature knows when to start new growth.
Even in that box in your basement! Around the middle of April, you should take all the clumps out and and VERY carefully, try to remove the dried soil from them. So you do not break the new growth off of the old ones, you can soak them in water--if that helps.

On the Cannas:

You will see fleshy new red "pips" of growth on new rhizomes that have grown from the old ones. To divide the Canna roots, you want to leave at least 3 new "eyes" on each division. The old Rhizomes will not do anything any more, but they DO support the new ones. Cut them away, if you must, and dust the cut ends with a fungicidal powder. Plant the new ones about 3-4" deep.

On the Dahlias:

Follow all the same advice as above, except when it comes to dividing the roots. These potato-like roots are very fragile. as they are attached to the old stem by a narrow "stem". You do not want to have too many of them break away from the "Mother Stem" of last Summer. Think of the old stem as an "Umbilical Cord".

If you look closely, by now you should see tiny, new, greenish growths from most of the tubers near the stem. Just little buds. That will be where new growth will come from. Be gentle and careful!

This is VERY important!!!!! IF, when you divide the tubers, your division does not include a piece of the old stem (to which the tuber is attached that has a new "bud" on it), it will not grow into a new plant!
You MUST have a section of the old stem attached to the division!!!

Oh, there will be a lot of tubers that will just fall off. "Lost" children! Trash them! No old stem--No growth! That is why you have to be very careful about dividing Dahlias. Amen!

When you plant out the new Dahlia divisions, dig a hole about 4"-5" deep, add some bone meal, mix it in and lay the tuber in there with the old stem section up against a stake you have driven into the ground. You have to put the stake in NOW at planting time. If you do not, you will chance driving it through one of the tubers.
Cover the newly planted tuber with about 2" of soil, leaving a slight depression. As you see new growth coming up, keep adding more soil until it is level with your bed. When the Dahlia has produced 2 sets of "real" leaves, you can pinch out the growing tip to make it more bushy.

Note! DO NOT just buy any Dahlias because you like the color--or something like that. Check the packaging on how TALL they actually grow. Many Dahlias never stop growing and become 5' tall with a mess of stems and vines. I think the ones in the 3' max category are the best. Also, do not over-fertilize as all you will be doing is growing a jungle of leaves and only a few blooms.

During the growing season, remove any spent flowers to encourage new ones. This is just regular maintenance stuff.

I do not know much about Calla Lilies, as they are not hardy in my area. Maybe someone else can help you there. Sorry!

Gardening is such fun! If you know what to do......:o)

Hope this helped you out. Gita

This is WONDERFUL help!!! Thank you so much Gitagal for taking the time to type out this message for me. I am making a copy of it to keep with my gardening to do list.

I found out what you mean about checking on the height of the Dahlia. Not sure of the name, but it gave a very pretty white bloom and grew to almost 5 foot this first year. It will need a new home next year because I had other things planted too closely and the Dahlia covered most every thing beside it.

Glad that you pointed out to wait until after the first frost to dig up, I didn't realize that was the case. I had tried to stay away from things that needed to be dug up, but in the end the beauty of the plant won. ha-ha

Well, John spent some time yesterday afternoon digging up 9 clumps of huge Lariope. There are a few more that he couldn't get to yesterday that need to come up later too. He plans to divide it later and use it as an edging plant around some of his day lily beds. I am thrilled to have it gone because I now have some empty spaces for the plants that I had shipped here last week.

Nope, I haven't been buying any new plants, other than some bulbs while in Massachusetts. The mail order nursery was just making good on a guarantee of plants that didn't do anything last spring. I hope that they do better buy planting them at this time of year.

Again, I thank you for the instruction Gita. I hope that you are doing well.

Ruby

I double Ruby's thanks. I can tell who I am being going to for hand-holding a lot this fall! Thanks, Gita.

Hi Ruby,
great detailed dahlia directions there from gitagal! I do it pretty much like that only we do separate the tubers before storing them to avoid breaking any growing buds that start sometimes while still in winter storage. Either way works. I do close up the boxes with peat moss and we put a plastic trash bag over the whole thing so they don't dry out. I have tried alot of different ways to store the tubers and peat moss does work really well.

I differ from gitagal in that I usually do buy dahlias based on color and blooms ~ I like to bring them in as cut flowers. We have alot blooming now :) Haven't started entering any in shows yet, maybe next season ...most do get very tall !!!

as for calla lilies...I only tried for the first time last yr to dig up calla 'naomi campbell' and stored them in peat moss like the dahlias. It worked great, they stayed hydrated and firm, but for some reason I didn't get any blooms.

Calla Lilies do awesome in the state of Washington. Then--doesn't EVERYTHING with the climate they have????? Rain and cool nights and not so hot days. What else can one ask for?

Gita

Hi There. Happy, Wind and Gita. I remember your dahlia's Wind. Yep, yours were plenty tall. So much effort has gone in to your lovely gardens Wind. Did I mention that I loved walking around in your yard and seeing all of the wonderful things that you've grown? ha-ha

Well, one of the hauls from my parent in laws place was a huge bale of peat moss. We used it to overwinter something last year, but have now forgotten what we took up. Please don't ask me what I did yesterday. ha-ha

At least now knowing that it needs to frost and kill foliage before I have to dig things up, takes a bit of stress from me. I have so many other things to do also. There will be a lot of things going in to compost bin this year, that is for sure. We have one batch of compost that is ready to be used.

For any of you who have used compost or other types of amendments, when is the best time to use it?
I was thinking of using it on several of the back yard beds. Everything that is planted in front yard gets a generous shovel full of cow manure whenever they are planted.

I am thinking of just working the compost in to the other soil in the two beds that I am thinking oof. I was going to do it whenevr there is a frost and things in them begin to die. Should I wait until spring to use it?

All advice welcome. You ladies have a wonderful week.

Ruby

Any advice on amaryllis? I have many that have been outside all summer -- but this will be my first year overwintering them.

I have seen recommendations to keep them in a bright room at 55 degrees, but I don't have such a room (does anyone?). I'd like to just dump them in my dark garage for a few months. Will that do?

I have also read that they can just be keep indoors like house plants, in which case they'll bloom when they feel like it. I'm not trying to force them to bloom on a particular date, so is that an option?

On the other hand, they take up so much space that having them in the garage is appealing!

This message was edited Oct 10, 2007 12:07 PM

Happy, My mom had a way with amaryllis, after she watched a show on how to care for them that was presented by the head of the Phipps conservitory in Pgh many many years ago. She would bring them inside and lay the pots on their side in our basement, letting the leaves dry up. when dried she would remove the dried leaves and soil and let the bulbs rest. Then late winter, very early spring she would pot them up in fresh soil and bring them up stairs to grow, be sure not to plant deep, just about 1/4 of the bulb deep. She had hers rebloom ever year.

Thanks! Was her basement cool? Ours is quite warm. I am wondering if I should put them in the garage instead.

I take in our amaryllis and just leave them out with all the rest of the house plants wherever I can squeeze them in. Every now and then the leaves will grow too tall and tip over. When that happens I trim them off, they grow back and I usually get lovely blooms.

This is a red amaryllis I got MANY years ago (over 10yrs) and I only transplanted it once so far. It is a really bright red, was a xmas present :)
(pretend you don't see a cat on the table...sunny window location...plants could really use that spot too...what can I say...it's our sweet Ruby Tuesday)

Happy- We had an old coal furnace and a root cellar. She put them in the coolist part of the basement. At night the house got pretty cool as we didn't want to go to bed with a rip roaring fire. This was in Pgh. about zone 6-7.

i store minew dry and not especially cool, do ok. i am going to try one out for the winter and see if it lives this yr.

Happy,

I read your post earlier today, but did not have time to reply. Had to go to work. I almost wanted to say that you could do any one of the 3 options you mentioned.
Now I have some other people's ideas to compare what I do to.

What I have been doing is what I read in one of those Gardening Guru's calendars. Can't find it right now, but he is (was?) very well known and, I think, had his own TV show at one time.

Then there is Allan Summers (owner of Carroll Gardens) and all his advice. I have learned a lot from him as well.

I take mine in around this time of year. Actually, it should be done sooner. Either way, they NEVER bloom at Christmas! Mine usually bloom in March. I realize that I can "control" when all this will happen by:
--when I bring it in from outdoors
--when I let them go dormant
--when I repot them
--when I bring them back into my LR and start feeding and watering them, etc. By this time, the bloom buds are already peeking out from the bulbs.

SO! Here's what I have always done, but i do not think all this is, necessarily, the best thing to do. I am open to suggestions.

--I bring them in by end of September (usually later) and put them all in my dark basement and stop all watering.
--Very soon, the leaves start going limp and yellow and I remove them as I can. To me, this seems too fast and too sloppy, as the leaves almost rot off of the bulbs. They are all wet and slimy. Yet I pull them off as they yellow. My pots are in the upright position all through this.
"ladygardener's" suggestion that the pots be turned on their sides seems a good one. Anyone know WHY this would be better than allowing the leaves to die back in the upright position??????

--Then I let the pots with the bulbs in them "rest" for about a month.
I will keep looking to see if any of them are breaking the dormancy
and if the flower bud tips are starting to peep through.

----at this point, this "guru" suggested that the bulbs could be repotted in fresh soil--about once every 2 years. You will be AMAZED by the huge amount of roots there are from these bulbs!!!!! Some years, there have been almost NO roots. They were all dried out and puny.
Perhaps, this is cyclical and the roots are just responding to too much dryness or neglect. Don't know! Either way, repotting the bulbs is good, they just do not need large pots. Allow for only 1" more space around the bulb and the pot walls and leave at least half the bulb exposed.

--Once I have repotted them, they will be brought upstairs in my LR and put in a bright window--watered--fed--etc.

I do not have the greatest light for any of my plants, yet they all do make it though the winter and thrive anyway. My Amaryllis usually blooms in the beginning of March--just in time for my Birthday.

This is very similar to what ladygardener wrote. Except for the "pots on the side" and "storing the bulbs dry" and out of the soil.
Please tell me the benefit of this??????

I did an experiment last year and planted a couple of the A. bulbs right in my south-facing flower bed because a guy I work with told me he has them in beds by his front steps and they bloom away just beautifully in early Summer.
Guess what? Mine made it through the Winter and bloomed also.
Happy, you being a bit South of me, should have no problem. Just buy them up when they go on clearance and plant them in a protected, warm area in your garden and--ENJOY! Best is--you won't have to worry about all this dormant and repotting stuff.
I had about 7-8 pots of Amaryllis, so I had nothing to lose. I won!

Just a couple of asides.....

Cut off the blooms when they are all done blooming, but leave the bloom stems to die back naturally (less than a week) as all the natural dying back of all leaves and stems returns energy tot he bulb---just like ALL bulbs!

When your BIG bulb makes side-bulbs, let them be and do not separate them from Mama. In order for these baby-bulbs to bloom, they first have to grow big enough to have 5 leaves on them. Then (maybe?) you can hope for a bloom or seoarate and pot them up separately.

My sister, who lives in Alaska and has a house on a hillside with windows all around, NEVER does any of this. She keeps her Amaryllis in a bright window year round and it blooms beautifully----whenever if feels like it. I think it is the sun and the cool temps that do the trick. We don't have that here--of course. Our windows are 90*! ALL bulbs prefer cool temps, you know!

OK! Enough prattle on this topic.

I am also looking forward to other's input or advice.

Gita

Gita (and everyone else): Thanks -- that is hugely helpful. I am supposedly on the border of 7a and 6b, but I have never managed to keep alive a plant that is only hardy to 7a, so I consider myself a 6b. I don't have many sunny spots outside, so I doubt I could keep an amaryllis alive outside.

I'll have a ton more questions -- I am working my way through my tropicals. Next on the list are begonias. . . .

Gita, Here is a site, It says to lay pot on side. Might be a Pa thing (grin)
http://solutions.psu.edu/Horticulture_Gardening_Landscaping_396.htm

Maybe the only reason to put the amaryllis on its side is because it makes the mess easier to clean up?

I have actually heard that laying a pot on it's side will stop growth, which would make sense--as I want the "plant" to go dormant.

That reminds me! I better take mine in. I have several pots.....Oh, woe be me!!!
After this weekend. My daughter and I are having a Yard sale.

Gita

Hi ladies - Whew!!! I got in the last of my house plants a few days ago. Really good thing too. The only thing that I didn't do was to get a clipping or two from the gorgeous solid red coleus that sits at my front entry. Good thing that I still have some of it from last year and it still looks pretty good. Yesterday I noticed that it was looking awful. I believe that the cooler weather on Tuesday night must have killed it and also killed the Kong Coleus that I had out front. Both look so pitiful being so droopy like that.

So Gita, I encourage you to get things in. I had to turn the heat on when I awoke today. This house was chilly!!! Last weeks heat was certainly crazy though. Speaking of crazy, the dryness of the ground is also horrible. I tried watering some of the beds on Monday and Tuesday and water just rolled away on top of the soil. We could sure use some rain.....we could sure use some rain.....should I say it again?....we could sure use some rain.

You folks have a great weekend. And.....I hope it rains.

Ruby

Ruby,

I am pretty much done with taking things in, except my Amaryllis, my Epis and my X-mas cactus. I leave the X-mas cactus out until they get several nights of a good chill. They make flower buds better that way. Then when I do bring them in, they are already covered with tiny buds all over the place.

My Epis.....I need to make 2 hangers for them. Gotta haul out the old macramé yarns. Two of them need to hang. The third one, a white night blooming Cereus (hasn't bloomed yet for me) is too upright.

I am plugging away best I can. Been a bit earlier cleaning up all my beds than usual. Feels good to have so much done already. Still lots to go.

We had some serious rain/T-showers Monday night. It poured! Then, later in the night it rained again. Everything is nice and moist--finally!

I hope you get some rain soon.

I hope you all are watching your Datura seed pods like hawks. They are really splitting open now. Cut them off and dry the seeds before they all get spewed in your beds.

Here's my Pregnant Onion. Dig those bloom stalks!!!!

Gita

My pregnant onion (from Gita) is still blooming also -- awesome!

Here's my favorite web page on Amaryllis, advice from the National Arboretum: http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/faqs/AmaryllisBloom.html

I take mine out of their pots and plant them in the ground each spring (after frost danger), between the banana plants by my deck. I think there might be 25 or so bulbs down there this year. It's about time to start lifting them and potting them for the winter. Last year, I intended to let them continue growing without a dormant period, but by the time I dug and potted them many leaves had broken off and the plants went partly or fully dormant anyway. I put them by a window in the basement, and whenever one started putting up a flower bud I brought it upstairs to enjoy. I had blooms from Thanksgiving until nearly Easter!

I was given 3 teeny pregnant onion bulbs in Sept and I potted them up but they haven't sent out any roots or growth. How do I get them to grow?

Dragonfly,

Even all my itsy bitsy little bulbs have rooted in their little 1 1/2" clay pots. Do you keep yours outside???? I do--all summer long. I think it helps.
Just push them half way into some potting mix and water whenever you think about it.
Once they start growing, they really go fast. It can go from a small bulb the size of a nectarine to one the size of a large Navel Orange in less than 2 years. Then they really get crowded, make a zillion "babies" and in one more year, you have to divide them all up.

You can test for roots by gently tugging on the bulb. If there is the slightest resistance, it is rooting in.

Good luck! Gita

Gita: My (your) Datura seed pods are bright green. Will they turn brown before the split open?

Hmmm, maybe I'm keeping them too wet. I had them pushed into the soil outside but kept finding them being pushed around by the wind, so I brought them in and covered them with a zip loc bag to keep it humid. I guess I will try benign neglect and just let them sit. I am guessing it is getting too cold to leave them outside?

Happy,

No. They turn kind of pale green shortly before they split. Look every day to see if the are starting, because when they start splitting, the next day they will be wide open. The seeds inside are all still in tight "globes"/ CUT the stem to remove them. DO NOT PULL, as the pulp on the seed pod is very soft.

Here's one that should be splitting soon.

Thanks! I have them by the back door, so I shouldn't miss the moment!

Gita - Lovely pregnant onion picture. It almost looks like a very large and healthy spider plant. Mine hasn't done much that I got from you in June. There seem to be two little sprouts wanting to come up. What is the general care for them? I must be doing something wrong.

I mis-spoke the other day. I am ashamed to say that instead of the cool weather getting my two outside coleus, it was lack of water that had them both so droopy. I thought that they were real goners, but gave them a nice drink anyway. It took a day or so, but they pepped back up. Not quite as lovely as before, but a lot better than the droopy state they were in that one day. They are pretty much the only living potted plants that I will leave out to die.

I had to run an ad in our local freecycle earlier in the week for three rather large house plants that I could not find space for. I had loads of responses for them too, but I believe they went to a good home, because the husband drove a good distance to get them for his wife.

Anyway, thanks for all the help that is being traded here. I am sure that I will soon have some questions when I begin digging up some of the bulbs and things that need to come up and be stored for the winter. I am thankful for each and every one of you fine people. Have a great day everyone.

Ruby

Hi Ruby, "Freecycle" what a great concept...we don't have that here. Is that in your local newspaper?

Freecycle is wonderful -- it is a website -- you have to join your local freecycle community. I got lots and lots of leftover garden pots this spring using freecycle. See the next post for the link.

This message was edited Oct 14, 2007 9:45 PM

wind,

The Freecycle that would cover your area is probably this one: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodburyNJ_freecycle/

In order to use it, you wold have to sign up with the group. My husbands family lives in Mt Laurel and my youngest daughter lives in Woodbury, so they use it a lot.

Here's a listing of all the New Jersey groups. If you don't mind travelling a few TP exits, you can get some nice things sometimes:
http://www.freecycle.org/group/United%20States/New%20Jersey/


This message was edited Oct 14, 2007 4:02 PM

thank you so much!...I'll check it out :) strange that I never heard of it before...I'll have to spread the word to family and friends ~ thanks again

dragonfly -- thanks for putting in the right link -- I had botched it.

happy,

I didn't realize your link was bad, I just thought you had given the general link the I wanted to narrow it down for wind. Freecycle can get confusing as there are so many layers to sift through!

Hi Dragonfly - good to see you. And hello Miss Wind. I have been a member of our local freecycle for a couple of years now. I have been able to get some cool things, as well as give away things that are too good to go to the dump. There should be an online group near you.

i was able to get a twin bed set and a vacuum cleaner for a friend of mine who needed them. Some people offer perfectly good stuff that they just grow tired of. I don't have that luxury but do have a tendency to buy craft types of items and things that I never use and then need to find new homes for. ha-ha

I hope that you will find your group easily and begin reaping the benefits.

Ruby

Gita:

Do you leave your Christmas cactuses outside for early frosts? You said you leave them out for a good chill, but does that mean a frost?

What about your pregnant onion? When do you bring it in, and do you store it dormant or keep it as a house plant?

Happy,

NO! A frost would not be good. I am sure they would ride through it, but why chance it? In the 40's is OK.

Now would be a good time to bring in your X-Mas cactus. We have already had really chilly nights. They should already have little flower buds on all the leaf tips.
I brought mine in 2 days ago. Just trying to do what I can.

My Pregnant Onion is still outside--right up against the house. Normally, I would have brought it in already, but it has these 4'long bloom stalks! I don't really know what to do with them? I wonder if i could just cut them off???? Anyone???

The PO will reside on my windowsill in the Laundry room. There is a small window. It will get some light, but I sure don't water it much. Kind of--out of sight--out of mind. It doesn't seen to bother them.
If you have room, by all means keep it in the house to grow away.

I have taken some Brug cuttings and they are in the "bubbler". If they make it, great. If not--so be it.
Took my "Peaches and CReam" Brug into the basement to go dormant.

Does anyone know if I can keep a big pot of Dragon Wing Begonias in the basement (no light-cool) to go dormant???? Can this plant do that? Pleas!!!!! Give me some help here!

Gotta get ready for work.

I have a small pot of dragon wing b. on my desk by a sunny window and it is blooming away. It is messy though which I never notice when it is outside. My friends, friend brings hers in and over winters her pots successfully and I'm pretty sure she said in her basement. I'll try and verify and post back.

I've also taken cuttings and they root and do just great by a lamp in water. I luv dragon wings. Mine never look quite as spectacular as my friend's though. She has them all around, mostly in shade, in pots. In one arrangement; she puts several plants together in a tall urn like pot and WOW is it gorgeous! Seeing that is what got me started with them :)

I did keep my dragon wing pink in my basement by a west window for the last two winters. Messy and looked bad by spring buit lived. This year, just keeping a small pot of three cuttings instead of botherig to repot and keep the bigger one. noticed dragon wing or similar begonias in a lot of commercial plantings this year.

YES! Sally--so have I!
All of a sudden--Dragon Wing Begonias were everywhere! So were "Persian Shields". Both of these were almost hard to find just a couple of years ago.

NOW--MY D.W.B.'s I am asking about will be in a dark, no heat basement and the pot I want to really save is a 20" pot where I plopped a 10" HB of D.W.'s in this Summer. It grew SOOOOO beautiful and big--the blooms arching out all over the place.

I still have about 3 clumps of it in my beds I want to dig up and pot up. I have done this for about 2 years now, because I am "CHEAP" and don't want to buy a 4" pot of these for $2-$3. Gotta get this done before Friday. It will be nasty cold again by then. It IS time!!!!!

I also have a jar-full of cuttings which I plan to save-----OH! HELP ME LORD!!!! I want to save everything! Have NOWHERE to put it!

I know the Begonias are messy, but I always cut off all the bloom clusters if I plan to bring it inside. It also helps the plant to not "stress out" too much--I feel. Especially the cuttings I have in water--hoping they will root. Can't ask a plant to support blooms while trying to make roots. Just NOT fair!
Like asking a man to run--if he has NO legs!

Ta--Taaa, Gita