Interesting butterfly behavior

LOL! So true, Paige!

I am so glad I don't deal with that. Some friends of ours are having a horrible time with their HOA right now and they have a lawsuit pending. I have enough stress in my life, I don't need that kind as well!

I'm so glad this thread has time stamps... One of my favorite movie/stories of all time was Pollyanna. I have carried that with me all these years. What she did with the rainbow makers for the old bitter woman, our girl can do with butterflies... I think it can even change the heart of the HOAs.

Time for a resurgence of optimism if you ask me..:-). For the kids coming up in a crazy violent world, a little piece of heaven and hope of their own. For everyone who can grasp, it should be unforgettable and as true as we can make it.

Interresting link and a good title for the story> Where Have All the Butterflies Gone?>

http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/050906EA.shtml

Deb - That article is very interesting. And you know if conditions affect butterflies, they also may be affecting hummers and other wildlife.

Write that book, Deb! Looks like NOW is the time to bring U.S. awareness and maybe even global awareness! The debate still rages on about global warming, habitat destruction, insect viruses, etc.

I am beginning to get all the info together now. Kirby and Ben will be good too.. What if the pollyanna in the story were a little boy? ..Ben loves bugs and Butterflies & Birdages so much! He is all up in the facts about them, and checks out books, etc. Kirby is excellent in English, he is the one who said, "What is the Main Conflict of the story?" I have a lot to draw from here..
Thanks to your thread writing and everyone.

I am deeply concerned about what i rad in the article, which by the way makes a good name for it .. Where have all the butterflies gone? What do you guys think about that title? I don't think it has been used for a book/screenplay yet. As i did a search.

I have noticed that maybe some of their extinctions in California, might have become migrators eastward so as to find their host plants.

Deb - I think this story should be about more than one child. Maybe 2 or 3 kids who discover butterflies one summer while playing or hanging out together. But perhaps the book should start off from the butterfly's point of view and then at the end bring the kids into the story line as the heros of saving the butterflies from extinction. Kids relate to creatures having a personality and needing help. I think that would appeal to our younger generation. Just my opinion.

Which is what I do in my class. I tell the kids about the butterflies and their life cycle from the butterfly perspective. And then let the kids take it from there. They are naturally curious and who can't resist have a cat or a butterfly on your hand? lol The students ask so many questions and some we have to research. This is very, very young children. My class is hooked as are a number of other classes who we have shared the cats and butterflies with. This projsct started two years ago and now other teachers, the principal, parents, and many more students have become interested.

I am all for empowering young people. Even the youngest can educate others and contribute positive changes to our society and even the world. Have you ever dealt had a 3 year old with a one-track determined mind? LOL

This message was edited Nov 24, 2006 1:55 PM

YES more than one I agree! Terrific Becky... I love it!

Yep Becky, I taught Daycare before I had children.. I have always been interrested in Childhood Development. It was a big part of my College curriculum. I hear you so clearly for all the good this concept can teach a child! Excellent!

Deb - If you want to write about a particular species of butterfly that is just about extinct in the U.S., check out the Atala Hairstreak (host plant is the Coontie (Zamia pumila). They are considered one of the most beautiful butterflies in the world and have a most unusual looking cat. But are now only found in Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties in Florida. (Partly because of climate and partly because the Coontie plants themselves were almost wiped out - by humans of course!) It's a fascinating story about these beauties. And continues to be an on-going issue in southern Florida.

Edited to add: They are also found in the Bahamas and Cuba. But their numbers continue to shrink from what I have heard and read.

This message was edited Nov 24, 2006 2:38 PM

Well...... maybe I am incorrect in assuming it is currently becoming extinct. It was thought to be extinct from 1965-1979. Due to the popularity of the host plant for Southern Florida landscaping, this butterfly is making a comeback. lol
Great websites about the Atala Hairstreak:
http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/bfly/atala_hairstreak.htm

Atala Chapter of the North American Butterfly Association:
http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabaac/atalahistory.html

I am almost tempted to add a couple Coontie plants to my yard just to see if they might venture this far north in the summer. They are year round in southeastern Florida. I may not be southern enough to get them, but boy what a thrill it would be to see one! :-) Vero Beach, which is just south of me by 20 miles, "had" a population of them when plants shipped from south Florida were planted in Vero and must have had eggs on them. But they have since died out. :-(

Sounds very interresting for sure Becky. I will read the material you posted..and what could hurt adding some Coontie plants, who knows? That would be cool if they came! to your yard to have offspring.

Wow the cats are very striking!

Beautiful little butterfly ..the blue is like several other BFs, but this one is special with the dots! Makes ya wonder how they could go extinct, surely there would be some people who appreciate them and the lep counters couldn't have been everywhere. lol
....I found this article on Coontie just now http://www.plantapalm.com/vce/cycadsof/coontie.htm skim down to where it says
"Animal Relationships"



This message was edited Nov 24, 2006 3:57 PM

Very interesting article about the coontie plant. The coontie plants are rather expensive compared to most plants sold at the local nurseries. And they are very slow growing. But I like the way they look. They are sort of graceful and tough at the same time. The Atala Hairstreaks are probably not going to venture north to my area or zone. :-/

I am always amazed at the tropical plants that grow in south Florida and the Keys. Florida landscape is so different from one end of the state to the other end. Rolling hills become part of the scenery further north of me starting around Gainsville and Ocala. The further north you go the more it looks like Georgia instead of native Florida. On the other hand, South Florida has a lot of swamp land including the Everglades that hosts a rich habitat for wildlife - which in my opinion - is more like the true native Florida. I don't know about butterflies, but we've got the bugs and snakes. And we get an amazing variety of birds year round. Reptiles, amphibians, and even mammals are in large abundance here, too. Unfortunately, aggressive development of the land is destroying forever much of this beautiful state. I love Florida! I hate to see what progress is doing to my state.

Deb, this is something that you need to stress if you do write this book. It is so sad to see the natural habitat in any state being destroyed in the name of progress to become concrete, asphalt, and over-population. Our children's children will not know of and personally ever see many of things we see today. Many of these creatures and their habitats will be gone. And that includes the habitats in the oceans as well. Pollution and global warming will see to that! God is in control and he knows the future of this amazing planet Earth that He lovingly created.

A child shall lead them. Perhaps ..... we can only hope.

Right on Becky, Im totally with you there! You know the way you describe NFlorida is like the difference between STexas and here in North Texas..Maybe it is a lot dryer here, but I relate to the diversity within the same State. Your still very close to the Ocean though, and I haven't experienced the scent of an ocean breeze for almost a year, and that was up by New York. Even longer for the Southern Ocean, but I remember it pretty well. Seems like a wonderful place to live there in Sebastian. :o)

Fritillaries came for a nice long visit today, checkin' out a few of the new flowers I found yesterday..had several kinds actually, just a few would stay still..lol

Deb - Pretty photo of the GF. What is the flower it is on? Red Pentas? Very striking colors of the GF and flowers. Looks like your garden is growing and expanding! :-)

Thx Becky!
It's a Kalanchoe, (I bought 2), and sure I need to watch myself, not to bite off more than I can chew, lol. Those come in the most brilliant colors, I couldn't resist that red.

:-)

Ya know Deb. I thought that's what they were. But then I wasn't so sure because I didn't think you would have them in your butterfly garden. I was thinking more like red pentas! lol

I have two potted orange Kalanchoe sitting out in my herb garden. When they bloom, your eyes go to right to them because the color of the flowers is so rich and brilliant. Apparently, they root from leaves pretty easily, because one of my pots got knocked over and some of the leaves broke off the main plant. I never bothered to throw the leaves away. Well, about a month later I noticed a new Kalanchoe plant growing from the leaf ...... right where it lay on top of the dirt. Better than seeds! lol

No kidding! I'm glad to know they are liked for their nectar. I don't have any but think they would probably do well in a huge 3-tiered planter I have on my porch.

Does anyone grow Autumn Joy Sedum? When it finally rained this year it overwhelmed my sedums and they fell over. The stalks eventually started to die but the plant came back in the center and I just cut it back. But before that, I had taken some of the stalks that would just come out of the ground and layed them on top of this planter and in another spot. I had always noticed the little rosettes growing up the stalk but when I picked the stalk up another time I noticed what looked to be roots on each of those tiny rosettes! Well, they pop right off and you can plant them and start new babies! How cool is that?! So my planter has those in it now.

See the little rosettes growing up that stem on the right?

I love my Sedum paige, and yes Kolanchoe is just like that, a succulent. Roots easy and has a beautiful form when it first comes up in Spring. I have shared Sedum with lots of people. It will grow just about anywhere. The limbs get heavy quick though. It likes to be on the dryer side, no wet feet, or it will sorta get limp, but let it dry out and it perks right up.

If ya mail a small piece of it, as long as it has any sap at all, it will root and take off. Kolanchoe is like it in that way too....

I am putting another pic to show foliage and the blooms..
Foliage-Succulent, bright green
Blooms- rounded and 4 petals, brilliant colors

(Penta is pointy and has 5 petals) Penta is an excellent nectar plant for sure! Seems they like this Kolanchoe just as much.

Yeah, mine are several years old and have been blooming since spring! They just got used to the drought and were shocked by that huge rain we got in Sept. I've always known the sedum would root if you just stick it in the ground, but I was fascinated by the little rosettes growing roots on them!

fyi for someone who doesn't know:

I just quickly snapped this pic, so it's a little blurry but see the little red roots on the ones on the stem? I just snapped the others off the stem and stuck them in the dirt. Too cool!

The Kalanchoe are similiar, you just lay the leaves on top of the soil. it does it's own rooting as long as it's not in the hot, hot sun when it is just starting out. (The sun will dry it out.) My leaf was behind the pot and received some shade, so it grew just fine. Let nature do the rest! Gee..... I'm starting to "let go" of the control issue with my gardening! LOL!

Here's the mother plant in the pot getting ready to bloom again.

This is the leaflet growing right next to the pot. Notice it's shady, so the little leaf didn't get dried out from the sun and instead thrived and grew right there in the dirt.

This message was edited Nov 26, 2006 12:59 PM

The funny thing is that it is also getting ready to bloom, even as teeny as it is! Ya gotta love Kalanchoe! :-)

Yes Becky it is a lovely plant!! Really easy to work with!


lol control issues, rofl!

Well, this is just the strangest thing ...... I have released about 14-15 Monarch butterflies the past 2 weeks, two of which I released today. ALL but one were males! What's up with that?????!! Luckily, some females from somewhere else are coming into my yard to lay their eggs. I have 8 more in the chrysalis stage and about 25 cats fattening up for the morphing. I'm keeping track of their gender when they emerge.

There has to be a reason that I have had nothing but males emerging lately. Bizarre!

And I am so excited! One of the two sulphur cats is morphing into a chrysalis, too! Yay! My dh wants to see those butterflies. He doesn't ever remember seeing "yellow" butterflies! He will soon!!!! :-) :-) :-) :-) I'm doing the Snoppy dance! LOL

No idea on why you are raising all boys. ? You let us know when you figure it out.

Yay for Sulphur cats! I was preparing my beds for the upcoming freeze today and decided to get a headstart on next season. I dug up the small Cassia alata and potted it and will just either keep it inside or in the garage. Now I will have a large plant already growing come spring!! woohoo!!

Ok, is it just me....I can never get anything to show up in the PlantFiles! I will search and it shows there is nothing. Ugh! It seems like I have to put in the exact name or it won't do a search for me. I don't always know the exact name, especially when there are several common names listed. What is up with that?!

And is there not anything listed for the Cassia alata, or Candletree? Candlestick tree? Candletree bush? Candlestick? I finally got something to come up but no C. alata.

Yay Becky!!! It seems I have more males than females sometimes too, not sure why.

I have better luck with the plant files if I only do one choice, like genus, or common name, and not both. The Cassia alata is listed as a Senna Genus, weird, was the name changed? And sometimes, I'll at least find the right page and was unable to search for it but it was there.

Great info on the Kolanchoe and Sedum, I have to be careful where I put them so they won't rot.

Becky~ Don't you have another kind of Cassia there that the Sulphers are using as host? I still want seeds to that one when they are ripe. :-) I will just grow more than one kind this year, get them up early and strong, and see what comes.

Paige~ If you can show me how you are preparing your beds it might help me here. I have some very thick clear plastic, and some poles to keep it from touching leaves. What do you do?
And yes, I have had trouble finding things in plant files too. Fly your right, trying variations of the name helps. If I was the one who put it in, I just look up my own name and find it that way.. or even Google my name and part of the plant name, and often find it that way too.

Don't worry, Deb. I'm in the process of harvesting those Privet Cassia seeds now. Will send some out to you as soon as they dry! There were a couple other folks who wanted some seeds, too. Though, I don't know if the butterflies like this Cassia tree? the Cassia plant you have is similiar to the one I purchased and is currently being used as a host plant by my 2 Sulphur cats.

I have a question: Do the Cassia plants drop their leaves in the winter? My large one has dropped all it's leaves. Some of the seed pods are still hanging on to dry. It's not dead. I see little buds coming out on the branches. I think the cold snap we had last week confused ALL my plants, because this week it's supposed to be near 80. Everything looks like it is dormant.

Gotta go to work! I'll check back later tonight.

Deb, I'm not sure what you are talking about by preparing. ? Oh, yesterday I was "preparing" by just putting out some mulch. I'm not covering anything. Everything that is perennial will come back and the annuals have reseeded. I do have some things in pots that I'll bring in. The only thing I really did was put that Cassia in a pot.

Becky, the reason I put that Cassia in a pot is because they are only annuals here. If they reseed then I'll have more, otherwise I have to buy one and they aren't cheap until the end of the season. Hmmm...maybe I'll go dig the bigger one up too! It dropped it's leaves when we got a cold spell recently. I don't know if they are annuals for you but you should mulch it good in case.

Yes, the names were changed on the Cassia (read that a while back in a book) but I looked it up both ways several times, with one name each time in each spot, one name in a couple of spots. It didn't matter, it just kept coming back with nothing. It does it every time I search for something! The way I find things here is by going to Google then finding the link.

Paige, I will have some Cassias Alata seedlings next Spring from planting early, about Feb 1. Will have plenty of the Cassia Alata seed to give you some. Then Becky will have another kind, Privit, that Sulphurs use too.
Becky, I would think as long as it doesn't get frozen the leaves should come back being it should be a perennial there in 9b. Sadly every year I planted Cassia they died over the winter, no matter what I did. This year I am prepared early...enough to share too.

A lot of the new annuals I just planted haven't seeded yet, however every year I have had some of the same, like Parsley, out in the front bed close to the front door. It faces North, and each year the annuals would survive under the leaves that were dropped and covering them.
Now the Host beds are in back too, and I just wanted to shield them from any long strains of cold. These new beds are on the South side, and it looks like a pretty cozy location. Once the beds are well established, I won't be so nervous about them. The plants I got from you/paige and the swap are in that bed, ver-r-r-ry special.

The top can be covered with a very thick clear plastic sheeting, even the Passionvines in back are geared to be covered....

So tell me,y'all...am I overdoing it?

Deb - What exactly is that which is surrounding your bed? It doesn't look like plastic. I would say you have more than prepared your garden for winter! I'm seriously impressed with the precautions you have taken to protect it! Far from what I do. (Which is nothing more than just mulch.) But I am in a warmer zone and my yard gets the warm ocean wind current even 10 miles inland, so perhaps that is an advantage. I'm not zone savy, so I probably don't know what I am talking about! LOL

I am still racking my brain about the seed garden bed. I'm trying to wrap my limited brain around this concept. I think the reason I'm having such a hard time is that I have always put plants in the beds. No seeds. (Though some of those plants were grown from seeds in pots and then transplanted.) And of course, some of my plants do drop seeds and more grow. But not because of any seeds I planted in the ground. And I guess the other thing that is throwing me for a loop is that most of ya'll are planting your seeds now. In the winter. Cold weather. So how does that work? The seeds don't try to grow and then die because of any freezing temps? If I did that here, I know they would be sprouting. And if we got really cold temps, they would die. Which has actually happened. The cypress vine seedlings that were growing so good were killed by the cold snap we had last week in Florida. Obviously they are not hardy vines! :-/ So that is why I am growing seeds in peat pots and keeping my fingers crossed that they survive the winter. I do bring the tender plants into my garage to protect them, but they sometimes don't make it even then. Most of the plants that I started from seeds last year were planted in the late winter/early spring. Which is why I am worried I might be trying to start plants from seeds too early. I am totally lame when it comes to all of this seed sowing seasons, zones, etc.

Someone educate me, please! I bet I am not the only one who is clueless.

BTW- Your garden looks great, Deb!

Do what you feel like doing. You might change your mind next year. lol I panicked the first few years now I am really ready for most of my stuff to die back so I can clear some of it out. I learned that there is not saving a butterfly bush. My Honeycomb one dies at the first bit of cold even if I cover it. (it's such a wimp!)

I do cover things in the early spring when things start to come up and we get a late freeze. If they get bit then it will take a long time for them to get going again and I like my color early! My Indigo Spires will come up because it's sort of protected by a fence so I put trashbags and pillowcases on it and hold it down with rocks. I'll cover my bulbs that are blooming and my Bog Sage too.

I think that I'm safe enough with what I have to not fear losing them totally. I don't have anything really exotic that I can't get more of. Don't worry if you lose anything I gave you because you are welcome to more. I'm very happy to finally be able to have enough things to share now.

Let go Becky! GO WILD It's liberating! LOL... I just started throwing seeds out in the fall because that's when they are falling off the plants! See? I figured it worked for them so I'd just pretend they reseeded in my bed. I guess they go dormant and then when the temps rise they break out of it and grow. If I had thrown mine out earlier they would have already come up. As I was mulching yesterday I saw tons of Larkspurs already with their first set of true leaves. I don't know what will happen to them. I'm also going to throw out some seeds in early spring too because there are some that won't come up from this batch. I better get mine thrown out tomorrow so they can go thru this freeze, in case they need that cold stratification.

...I have this vision of you in your nightgown outside in the dark with your flashlight dancing around your yard tossing seeds! LOL!

Paige - Honestly ...... YOU have the right attitude about gardening! I need an attitude adjustment! How many years did it take you to get to that point where you weren't stressing over your gardens? I'm far from there still. Since this is only my second year of gardening, I am still at that bewildered, stressed, and frustrated level. And I like things to happen quickly. I have patience with children, but none with plants! LOL I want what I want .... NOW!!! lol Maybe I should lay down on the ground and kick and scream so the plants know I mean business! "YOU better grow, bloom, and reseed this year or else you are GROUNDED permanently! To the compost pile you shall go to be fertilizer for a much more obedient plant!" LOL

Paige - You've got the visual half right. I have been known to go out into my gardens day and night in my jammies (with flashlight when needed) to check things out! I know .... I'm a whack! I aspire to be an eccentric gardener that makes everyone wonder. That's what I want to be when I grow up! LOL That is my long term goal. =8-O

Hahaha!! Beckaroo....I'm down there with ya but I'm the one rogl! (rolling on the ground laughing). Paige has got it goin' on there with imitating what the plants themselves do. I love to throw down seed and see which is the fittest. I still have many of the plants I started like that.

The beds back there are raised and sectioned off. Those were 2 things that made it easy to just buy a couple pieces of 4x8 (styro)foamboard with reflective foil on one side. I split them longways and pinned them around the North side of the beds. Given the way the annuals in front on the North side survive, I thing for sure these will be warmer on the southside. When it gets really cold I have some plastic sheeting to spread over the top and seal it up fairly well. I might make a couple of strategic slits for rain, even though the tall poles in the middle will make an apex so the rain will just run off.

The reflective foil on the one side is good to reflect the Sun, which has gone way far South. So even if not for insulation, the extra reflection of light cant hurt.

I'm still working on it too, should have it covered by Wednesday night before the cold creeps in.

Deb - I KNEW IT!!! I thought those were reflective foam panels! I KNEW it! I am thinking to myself when I saw the photo ...... no way, those aren't what I think they are .... no way! How can anyone come up with something so crazy smart! You crack me up, girl! If those plants don't make it, they are just total WHIMPS!!!! They need to have their little roots kicked right out of the dirt and right into the compost pile! ROTFLMBO (rolling on the floor laughing my booty off)

So that you don't think you were crazy to come up with that idea ..... I have thought about searching the internet to find what I believe are called space blankets. Mountain hikers and astronauts use them as cover to stay warm. I want to see if they are something that I could cover my little container ponds with to protect them from freezing. I even thought about solar panels to heat the ponds. I am desperate. I do not want to lose my waterlilies! So the most bizarre ideas have been popping up in my head! LOL I am about to cross that fine line between sane and insane. Yikes!

I guess I am with Paige on the let nature take it's course and unless it is very special I don't do anything but mulch and water. If it is perennial it better return or I will give it a bad rep next year!!. I wish I had spread some seed before I mulched though. Now I have to rake back and recover. I have a bad habit of not remembering where I sowed seeds though. I need to map out my strategy ahead of time maybe. I just don't want to pull up seedings thinking they are weeds in the spring. I love the falling leaves, but they are covering my Fall Asters one of the only thing that is blooming so well right now.