Wintersowing 2007 Prep!!!

Time to prep for the next year of wintersowing. I've already started saving containers. I have even ordered some seed. I have decided to go through my collection and make sure I have enough of my favorites. I need to update my database with the new seeds purchased.

I'm so excited!! I've already decided that I need tons of portulaca and gazania!

Anita, I have been thinking about doing the following:
I have raised beds which are about a foot deep, 12 feet long and 3 feet wide. What if I used one of these as a giant wintersowing container? The lid would be made of panels of rigid clear plastic with flaps that could be opened and shut. Then I wouldn't have to plant out! I could just thin them out, and voilà! Flower garden.

Sounds like a great idea - let us know how it works for you!

Hi Anita, I'm glad someone else is already excited about next year's wintersowing, too. I've got the milk container collection started in the basement and am already making lists of seeds to get.

This will only be my second year but last year was such a success that I plan on doing at least twice as many containers. I've never been able to grow from seed indoors and it is so exciting to have almost 100% germination in my wintersown plants. Also, my wintersown plants did so well in the garden. They have grown so much larger and healthier than almost everything I purchased locally. For the first time ever I've even had Hollyhocks bloom! Love it.

I'm dreaming about seeds--and learning how to collect them from my garden plants (and those in the park, too!--is that legal?!!)

Have my WS set up all organized in my head. And for sure I'm going to Label better this year!

So much fun.

tobasco, I labeled a bunch of different ways and the only way that worked consistently was the aluminum foil tape wrapped around a popsicle stick. You can get the tape in the plumbers section at HD. When you write on it with a pen, it makes an indentation, sort of like engraving. I wrapped it on a popsicle stick and stuck it inside the container before sealing it. Worked great. Everything else I tried to do faded or fell off LOL.

Miss Garney & all,

I've been trying to figure out a way to do it without the milk jugs..for two reasons, the milk jugs are ugly and then you have to have another step in the transplant. I'm with you -- do it in situ!

For your raised gardens, would this work? I was thinking of some 2 x 4 runners to make a long rectangle (similar in size to what you have as a matter of fact) Then every 3 feet I could have short lengths used as braces.

THEN using visqueen to fit -- not sure how to say it, but the visqueen would be stapled on to the long side and then nailed or clamped or something to those short braces I put in so each little garden could be opened individually.

You could flip the visqueen open and then bring it closed. I know velcro would work, but the cost might be prohibitive.

Well, I'm going to do sowing in the ground, or in bigger containers or something, I just have to have the dang lightbulb go off!

The reason I'm not just open sowing is becuase I have so many seeds of different kinds and I'm afraid I won't be able to tell the flowers I sowed from the weeds in the spring!

Maybe plexiglass would be the answer...but I heard it's expensive.

Hmmm,
Suzy

as for labeling - I have found that writing on the plastic milk container with a paint pen worked great! I numbered my containers last year, but since I only plan on sowing one seed type to each container, I am going to write the name on the container. I think it will be less back and forth. I still plan on tracking everything in my database. It definitely helps me keep track of what germinated well and then what grew well. Here's a picture of the paint pen. They're great for decorating rocks with the kids too! Just thought of a good craft project with my nieces...I'll write the name of the flower and they can decorate it. Might be a different plant marker!

I like the paint pen idea, didn't know they were weatherproof. Thanks.

Where do you get paint pens? Craft stores?

Yup - Michaels stocks them. I've seen them online too, like Dick Blicks Art Supplies

The DecoColor paint pens work great! They don't fade and hold up to all types of weather. Bought mine at Michaels Craft Store.

Thanks, everyone. I will check out Michael's for the paint pens.

Yes, if you are wintersowing the kind of plants that can go into a raised bed and stay there for the growing season that 'in situ' plan sounds pretty good.

If you like to interplant the seedling plants around the flower garden where they are needed, I suppose you're back to milk jugs or a raised nursery bed with some kind of cover. But what? A row cover? The idea of plexiglass sounds good, except that one of the basic WS tenets is that the rain and natural moisture can get in to do the 'automatic' watering...

I agree. The milk jugs are kind of ugly, but they are fun and funky!

Suzy, we are of the same mind. I haven't priced potential lid material yet. I definitely want to use a lid that can be completely removed once weather permits. I already plant several kinds of annuals in a few of these boxes and they regularly re-seed themselves without any assistance from me. What I will be doing in my wintersowing box is controlling the process and adding some protection with the lid to make it happen sooner for a greater variety of plants.

PS What's visqueen?

OK! OK!.. I am convinced, I'll try wintersowing this fall. Can I ask?.... Where do you place these containers outside? Are the tops left open, holes punched into the tops, slits in the plastic wrap on top? Can you use the heavy duty clear vinyl sheets from the fabric shop and punch holes in them to cover the top? From what I read, plant after the winter Equinox, in soil at least 4" deep.. correct? Please excuse me if I seem a little slow catching on, but this seems like a rewarding garden effort. Especially since I got confused about what was weed vs flower when I sown outdoors.

Hi Garden6 - our primer has been this website http://www.wintersown.org/ . It offers the answers to most of your questions. We gather here to share out successes and failures, conversation and ideas as well as the community spirit. Welcome and enjoy!

Anita

Thanks for the welcome... I'll pay close attention and take notes! :0)

Yes, Garden6--you will get a kick out of wintersowing. I was just out in the garden admiring all of my WS efforts (it continually amazes me that I can grow something from seed!).

And you can grow things that aren't available in the nurseries so your garden can be 'unique'!

That 'Wintersown' website has all the details on how to do it. And then be sure to let us know about your successes!

Tabasco- will do and thanks for the encoragement!

Most people seem to like the numerous containers for wintersowing, as in, "I'm up to 25 and still going strong!" I just can't help the fact that that's the part I want to avoid. So I'm thinking up ways to do it that don't involve all those pesky plastic thingies.

Its August! Wintersowing? Do you folks have your Christmas shopping done?

Well, Dave, I summersowed. None of my poppies came up (neither CA type or Oriental type - not at all the same, but I tried both), but I have a lovely cardinal vine that hasn't flowered yet. The few annuals that I sowed in the spring didn't have a long enough season to do me much good. We're pretty excited, Dave, and for lots of us, this is the first time we've gotten seeds to grow!

xxxx, Carrie

Dave..haven't you heard of Christmas in July?... One must also prepare for the future, have a goal...lest a weed grow underfoot while you're standing still! Besides, I have to have something relaxing to keep me sane and happy with the pumpkin patch! :0)

Missgarney,

Visqueen is clear plastic...like a cross between a tarp and saran wrap in thickness. LOL!

I've been thinking about it, though, and I wonder if all the pots and cell pack flats covered in visqueen would look just as bad as millk jugs! And just in case I end up with something totally ugly, I weantahead and made a place for my wintersowing on the far side of the pation where it won't be visible from the street or from inside the house.

Carrie, I emptied all my old seed packets in some bare spots in my garden in June. I was just goofing off and making room for new seeds, but I have about a dozen poppies that came up -- the kind with the glaucous leaves (like ruffled cabbage) and another dozen California poppies coming up. Well, they're more than coming up , I'd say the ruffled ones are 14 inches high and the california ones are maybe 5 inches high. No buds yet. I had heard they had to have a freeze to germinate, but the seeds have never been frozen, plus they were old. Maybe 10 years old? If they bloom, I'll take a picture.

Suzy

Yes Dave - I have actually already bought a Christmas present!!! It was on sale, so I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth!!! Unfortunately, it's not yours :(

I'm only joking. Seems I can't keep up with my weeds.
Anita, I figured you were starting on Christmas 07 by now. ;)

Welcome garden6! Besides reading & re-reading all the information on the website that Anita provided, do read through the threads posted on D.G. too. You will gather a lot of information from reading about other people's successes and yes, failures.

Thanks Shirley, I am looking forward to having seeds germinate for my garden other than marigold and weeds.

missgarney, there are many ways to make a frame for a plastic row cover or mini-greenhouse. I've attached a photo of the frame my DH built for our raised bed at the community garden. We cover this with plastic sheeting or floating row cover material as needed. It also serves as a trellis for peas and beans. You could make one much lower to the ground if you wanted, or just use this pvc pipe as a hoop. Peaceful Valley Farm Supply sells great snap clamps that will hold the plastic or frost blanket onto the pipes.


http://www.groworganic.com/item_SER262_RowcoverSnapClamps34.html

I've seen mention of using co-polymer crystals to help the soil. Do any of you have a good CHEAP site to buy it in bulk? I saw references to http://www.watersorb.com/prices.htm -- but even that site is pricey. Is that a good source? I didn't see it reviewed in DG. Is there anything better?

Maybe this would be a good co-op prospect!

Are there other supplies I will need to buy for WSing? Have you found inexpensive reliable sites for them?

I figure I can use recycled materials for the containers.

But what about the plastic topping -- is Visqueen the best? Where do I buy it for a reasonable price?

happy, you'll need to compare prices between materials available at your local stores versus ordering from an online company. Peaceful Valley Farm Supply (www.groworganic.com) has a variety of plastic films for row covers or green houses. Some are reinforced, some have sections with slits for ventilation. You'll pay more for the added features. Some are sold by the foot, some by 5' increments, some require purchase of an entire roll. Most of the plastic films are .5mil to .6mil so you can compare with HomeDepot or local garden center.

http://www.groworganic.com/search.html?pCommand=DoSearch&pMode=Search&sText=&sCategory=326

Perhaps you could coordinate a coop buy with other gardeners in your area if you want something that only comes in a roll.

Are there row covers that moisture will permeate?

Yes there are. There are the fleece frost blankets, or you can cut slits in the top of the plastic film for ventilation. Peaceful Valley sells a slitted row cover, but they make you buy the whole roll. I'm searching for a place to buy it buy the foot or yard.
From the winter sowing site, it seems that plasic film would best replicate the conditions of the bottles.

I don't know why, but I have always had a terrible time with any kind of flexible cover. If a cover can be blown around and off, it has been. I guess I'm just not good at securing those kinds of things. The absolute worst case was with the "floating row covers"...NEVER AGAIN. Anyway, that's why I'm leaning toward something rigid, so to speak!

Thanks. I'm very glad to have that advice!

I thought you could use whatever cover came with your recycled container?
xxx, Carrie

Thanks, Carrie! That's exactly what I'll try. I'm concerned that my carryout containers aren't deep enough, and we don't buy gallon size bottles of milk (too bothersome to handle in the fridge). I'm honestly thinking on trash day to go peer through my neighbors' recyclable bins to see if they have tossed any gallon bottles!

I can't tell you how eager I am for winter solstice so I can get started with winter sowing -- I feel like a kid who has just discovered a new game!

What size milk bottles do you buy? Water in bottles? Recycleable soda bottles? Personally, if I sowed 15 seeds in each of 10 WS gallon jugs, that would be 150 new plants, and I don't think I have the space for that many new plants. I'm looking with particular longing at Dunkin Donuts' iced coffee cups for 2-3 seeds.

xxxxx, Carrie

Well, we don't drink soda, and we buy water in 16 oz. bottles. Milk we buy in 1/2 gallon bottles. I've only bought seeds from places that give me lots and lots of seeds -- I've never traded for seeds (hope to someday) -- so anything less than 9" across or so seems too small. I get carry-out salads a lot for lunch, so I have gazillion carryout containers -- only problem is I don't think they are deep enough.

But as I said, I'll peer through my neighbors' recyclable waste to see if they have gallon containers. . . . I am confident this is one problem I can handle!

We only buy milk in glass containers and don't drink soda, so frames with a plastic or fleece sheeting are our usual practice. I agree that the wind can rip them off if not properly fastened. We use a lot of clamps that are designed to work with pvc pipes and not damage the cloth. We use bricks and soil to hold down the plastic film or cloth on the windward side. The key is to not let the wind get a grip on a loose end of row cover. Our pvc frame is clamped onto the raised bed frame. My husband hammered rebar down the middle of the vertical members. That may be too much work for you if you don't have a permanent bed to sow in.