We had a similar rainbow a couple so weeks ago -- ours lasted almost 45 minutes and the section between the 2 arcs was solid in a way that I've never seen before and I've seen several double rainbows. It was so amazing!
jo
I could be "joa" for jo in albquerque -- that might save some confusion (?)
that works, and Jo also has the rr handle from long ago, too
I think Jio is excellent also.
Doesn't matter we all talk at once
or is that just me
I don't care what you call me...just call me if there are chocolates floating around...LOL Jo...as in Betty Jo
I do envy all of you who are receiving rain that you need and hopefully not too much.
We have had no rain since about June 10 and I don't expect any for some time. So I am still irrigating all the time. It has also been pretty hot this past week, which my DIL loved. My son and part of his family were here from Western WA since Friday, had to leave today so as to be able to go to work Mon. I sent as much produce home with them as they could find room in the car for...
Nah, I was looking east, too. Rainbows always happen opposite the sun.
Jo -- CHOCOLATES!? Where??
*burp* I ate 'em...sorry! LOL Jo
Jo (AZ), love your rainbow too! It's wide!
OPPPS...wrong Jo...I didnd't posst the rainbow! Jo...in AZ
Oops! I knew that! I meant Jo (NM).
hahaha -ing here. you guys made me laugh. thanks.
You can't see a rainbow from both sides. You CAN chase the end. LOL
Thought I'd post my attempt to find the end. :-)
glorious !! You almost made it. /;-))
Warning! I have pulled out my soap box, climbed up on it and am going to rant and rave for just a moment about water use. Despite the fact that here in ABQ we've had a wetter summer than ever, and so much rain that entire portions of the state are flooded, there is still a drought in much of the U.S. The area from mid-North Dakota to mid-South Dakota, across the Plains from East to West, is facing a situation that, according to what I've read, makes the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look like nothing. One-third of all people on the earth, including the U.S., lack sufficient water for daily use. Wars in the not-so-near future will be fought over water and water rights. People in the 3rd world already suffer because their water is bottled and shipped to the 1st world. Most aquifers have not been mapped or had their maps updated meaning there is no good idea how much water is in them. And rivers which may have water in one area don't necessarily provide usable, or any, water downstream. So, no matter where you live, how you garden, please please please watch your water use; learn to water your garden(s) with grey water; install rain barrels; plant drought-tolerant plants; give up lawns. In short: do whatever you can to lessen your water use. Think how good you'll feel when folks come to you for your water-using expertise! Ok. Climbing down now. Catching my breath. Ahhhhhh . . . jo/nm who feels passionately about this
You're probably preaching to the choir in this forum. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I feel the same way.
I'm pushing the homeowner's assn. (of which I am landscape chair and chief problemsolver for all things that live in the dirt!) to use xeric + renewable =beautiful as a marketing concept. WE have to differentiate ourselves from the newer developments, and the one thing we have that they will NEVER have is 5 acres of greenspace with 188 units. THat ratio is not available anwhere else in the region.
The only way to pay for it, of course, is through extreme resource management. We are have 3 "Denver Water Days" for our residents to get all the leaks and dropping faucets fixed up. We are in the process of converting 25-30% of all mown grass to xeric landscaping. And I'm not talking gravel with spikey things. I'm talking BIRD WATCHING TRAILS. Beat that!
The problem here in Los Alamos is that even our natural landscaping is dying or has died from this drought. I have removed about 75 Ponderosa pines from my 2 1/4 acre lots. The trees were so thick they were killing each other, but between my thinning and nature's and this latest rain the tree loss may have finally stabilized to something like normal.
I confess to having a small patch of lawn in the back yard. It came with the house when we bought it along with miles of gravel and rock in the rest of the yard. I have added rain barrels and a drip irrigation system, but the county is still watering a golf course within view of my bedroom window. Santa Fe waters 3 golf courses. The indian tribes have 1 - 36 holer and another am guessing is a regular 18 holer. These are all north of Albuquerque which has lots of golf courses and even less rainfall than we have.
I am doing my best to conserve water, but I am not giving up my veggies, my flowers and my small lawn as long as we continue to waste water on golf courses. The Indians have every right to that water because the were here and using it before the Europeans arrived. But the cities of Los Alamos and Santa Fe have no more right to water grass than the populace -- at least morally.
In addition, my getting rid of my lawn will not fill Soferdig's well even if I would get rid of it on his behalf.
If we are going to restrict water, we should be sure that we carefully consider our priorities before doing so. Gardening is cheaper than psychiatry and, at least in my case, serves the same purpose. I have never cared for golf. We need to think before we restrict. What are the best uses of our water?
Agree with you 100% on the golf course issue. I think any green grass golf courses built in a dry climate should be required to have and use cisterns for their water. We've had drought cycles for millenia. We know they will come. It makes sense to plan for them.
You guys are the best -- Revie's right - I *am* preaching to the choir!
I was living in SF when Las Campanas opened -- it has a Jack Nicklaus designed golf course -- my friends and I hated it then and haven't changed our minds yet, I've noticed over the years (having returned to ABQ a year and a half ago) that the L.C. folks are so aware of how others in town feel about them that they often don't even admit to living there -- they just say they live in "northeast Santa Fe" -- course I don't see them offering to close the golf course either, LOL!
The head of maintenance here has *finally* realized that no, you don't need to water everyday if it's rained an appreciable amount overnight. But it took serious city imposed fines to do it. I think possibly, just maybe, not just the city is waking up to the issue, but so are the residents.
I use grey water for all my watering and am able to save so much water (and was able to do so in SF too) that I would really really like to find someone who would come fetch it and use it for their yard. People just look at me with odd expessions on their faces when I say so though. Sigh.
Summertime bath water gets used 3 times around here - once for me, then for the dog (usually dog's baths are given by DS because, in theory, I'm supposed to be sweet and clean smelling :-) and then later to flush toilets (poured in the bowl, not the tank). I don't know if it will get done this summer, but DH is going to modify the shower plumbing under the house so that the drains will divert away from the septic tank to a water containment system and then onto plants as they need it (daily, hourly during the summer? Maybe I can get it on a solar powered timer, to boot!). We're blessed with a good, deep aquifer charged by a 16 mile lake and the Carson River - but still no reason to waste it. And, since it's a desert, I suppose you could say we are in a perpetual state of drought :-)
Using grey water would be pretty tough in my house. All the plumbing is in the slab. When I lived in Santa Fe, I had a washingmachine right next to a window and I simply put the output of the washer onto the lawn. That was my best lawn patch too. The city of Los Alamos does water its golf course with water from the sewerage treatment plant, also as many of its soccer fields as possible. It really makes the grass grow, but it sure stinks when they water it.
Hi you guys I just got back from AK. I thought up there all the time about how to collect my grey water from the kitchen sink, bathtub, washing machine and bathroom sink. We have double sinks in the kitchen and bath so I today installed a collection under the "summer sinks in both bath and kitchen" and have placed a shut off valve under my tub to collect my grey water into a 300 gallon water tank . I put a 60 GPH pump into the bottom and will collect my run off from these sinks and tubs. Then the cistern will pump out the grey water into my garden under 65PSI to my hose and soakers. All these are collected with a 3/4" hose connected to the drain. They gravity feed the cistern to give me all of my usage back to the garden. I plan on using only biodegradable soaps (in minimal amounts) and will not use anything but detergent (small amounts) in my clothes washer. My regular plumbing will remain the same and no waste will go anywhere but the septic system. My garbage disposal will dump into the "winter sink" and go to the septic. We have had problems with our well and no irrigation for 3 months during the driest months and most plants are doing good. Some of my transplants are hurting but they will recover with the new system. Has anyone used grey water on their plants? What kind of shampoo, dish soap, and laundry detergent do you use?
this picture is of soil that I planted in and did not use large amounts of wood chips and compost. It is the only problem areas in my 1 1/2 acre raised bed garden.
Hey guys, there's a lot more to gray water use than you would think. In Denver we can't use gray water. We have to look at the bigger picture. I was part of the Denver Water Board's Citizen Advisory Group a few years ago when I was xeriscaping my church's landscape which had been ruined by our historic preservation project. I learned a lot. Here's what the Water Board says about gray water.
Q. Why can't Denver Water customers reuse their own gray water for outdoor use?
A. Colorado water law allows each customer just one use of the water before it goes down the drain, through a wastewater treatment plant and back into the river for others to use. By law, Denver Water customers are not permitted to take their bath or laundry water (commonly referred to as gray water) and dump it on their outdoor plants or garden. After this water is used once by Denver Water customers, it must return to the South Platte River where it will be used seven or eight more times before it gets to the state line (Nebraska). State water laws are enforced by the State Engineer's office(PDF) Denver Water does not endorse any gray water systems.
However, Denver Water customers are encouraged to catch unused clear water in a bucket or other container as it comes out of the tap and then use this water once; to mop floors, refresh pet water or water plants. For example, try catching water that comes out before the shower water warms up and then use this water to flush toilets or rinse the shower.
Q. Why doesn't Denver Water have rebates for rain barrels so we could catch our rain and put it on our plants?
A. Colorado Water Law requires that precipitation fall to the ground, run off and into the river of the watershed where it fell. Because rights to water are legally allocated in this state, an individual may not capture and use water to which he/she does not have a right. We must remember also that rain barrels don't help much in a drought because a drought by its very nature supplies little in the way of snow or rain. The reuse of household water (gray water) is regulated by the Colorado State Board of Health Guidelines On Individual Sewage Disposal Systems (PDF). Local health agencies are responsible for implementation and enforcement of the Guidelines.
Denver does use recycled water for irrigation, and has a recycling facility in one of the suburbs and is building another one in our neighborhood. We've done a good job of water management since about the second year of our drought. One unexpected consequence of something we all thought should be done was decreased revenues from water when we started charging large users an additional cost for their water. People didn't want to pay more so they conserved. Conservation worked so well around in Denver that rates had to be raised. We hadn't expected such public cooperation.
If you'd like to read about our recycling program go to this website. http://www.water.denver.co.gov/recycle/recycled_facts.html
That is soooo true. When we bought our home, there was a declaration attached that stated we did not own the mineral OR water rights to our property, and all of the terrible consequences that might result. Sorta like the tag on new mattresses, but with prison terms.
Of course no one actually knows if I recycle the water form my dog's bowl etc. You would have to be doing something very obvious or very structural (re-routing your plumbing, for example) to get caught.
Here's one way to recycle water that no one thinks about: all those kitchen scraps contain substantial amounts of water. If you blend them into a liquid slurry and put them in your composter or feed them to your worm farm, who will know?
Wow! Y'all are really working on this! Cool!
Most of my "gray" water is just water saved from buckets in the shower which catch the water as it heats up or sink bowls (ditto) or kitchen sink if I like rinse something out, prior to washing, goes in the bucket, since I'm the only one who uses the plumbing and eats the vegies, I can control better the use. Since I use cheapo dish soap I don't use dish washing water -- it goes direct on the dish rag and dishes. I *do* turn the faucet on and off A LOT while washing dishes, LOL! No control over laundry room water (sigh).
Revie -- Sounds to me like shower water saved while waiting for it to get hot *could* be used on the plants -- that would only be one use.
Santa Fe in '04 passed a gray water law that allows the use of any water but that containing fecal matter to be used in one's own garden (only!).
Proud of y'all!! jo/nm
For us apartment dwellers reclaimed water from that kind of shower use is a matter of "where do I put it???" I use five 2-1/2 gallon watering cans full to water my garden, and only one can (if you know what I mean). A lot of the water goes down the drain, but I feel better knowing that water is reclaimed for somebody else's use.
I knew that farms and commercial concerns were not allowed to catch rainwater in Colorado, but I thought single family homes were allowed to rain barrel what came of their home's downspouts. Perhaps this varies by municipal area in CO?
For those of you who are able to use grey water, you may want to check into Essential Microbes if you are not already using them in your home and garden.
Here are a few links to further information:
http://www.scdworld.com/shop/deliver.cfm?page=emtech
http://www.emtechnologynetwork.org/index.html
We use biodegradeable soap based shampoos, dishwashing liquids etc. At the moment we are in a condo, so I am unable to actively use our grey water. When we were in a house and using grey water on the garden we had to watch the plants for signs of excess nitrogen. Depending on the concentration of soaps, you may need to cut back on nitrogen fertilizers, or add some high phosphorus/potassium ingredients to keep a balance. If you can let the grey water sit (in a covered barrel or tank) with the microbes working on it, it will be easier on the plants. The only other issue with grey water usage was the dissolved salts. I think this was from our laundry soap - had a bit of borax in it. If you let the water sit, some of the salts will settle out. Maybe there is a way to run it through a sand of magnetic filter of some sort to help with that. You'll probably develop a sense of grey water quality that will let you know when your plants will like it and when it might by a tad too strong for the more sensitive ones.
Edited to clarify - I'm refering to diverting the house grey water into an outside barrel for use. The fresh water captured from the shower/sink goes to the containers plants.
This message was edited Aug 23, 2006 9:47 PM
This message was edited Aug 23, 2006 9:47 PM
Living here in Montana they haven't started zoning yet. LOL. We have water rights too but no way can they enforce them when you have 2 sinks and the plumbing is remaining to be hooked up in the winter. A simple sink collector/reducer brings the 1 1/2 drain down to 3/4" hose pipe. The only problem I am having is venting the effulent when the sink is full. My bathtub I simply use a water fall pump that goes out the window into the cistern after a bath. I need water this year and my well is not happy. I don't get the rule about one time use. Here most people are on septic and the water used once only trickles down to the water table. Where as collecting it and reusing it does the same only a little (not much with soaker hoses) evaporates. Oh my worms insist on moist soil. Yes I am worm wipped. With no water on the grass I just let it grow and cut it at about 5 to 6" down to 4". You can see with this approach only the drain field area is dead.
You're right, mermaid, it depends on the municipality in Colorado. I was just speaking of Denver.
This topic is one big reason we needed a Rocky Mountain forum. You wouldn't have this thread in the east or midwest where water is plentiful!
Good point, revclaus.This topic would not be of interest on the Southeastern forum.
Well I figured the venting problem by using a Y piece to vent with hose placed at the top of the sink level. Should work. Yes we are going to be the first area in America that goes to war for water. LOL This is my 300 gallon system both gravity and pressure pump feed.
Where do you folks think water shortages are at the steepest? Parts of CA (I know nothing about them?) Front range of CO? (Denver and greater foothills).
Where will first blood be drawn (no, that was here on the mesa) in waterwars?
Kenton
What a great question! I have no real knowledge, just suppositions, but I would think areas that are not used to water deprivation along the border between suburban/rural. When the fight becomes letting lawns die so that crops can be watered (we've already seen some that here in the SW); or there's a mortatorium on private swimming pools so that crops can be watered. I'm surprised in a way that the MidWest drought hasn't caused some rumblings -- crops and dairy herds are dying by the acres/hundreds, damage is immense.
There was an article in one of the on-line news sources today that the Mayor of Salt Lake City has xeriscaped his yard in defiance of city law and is working to get the law changed: seems that well-tended green lawns are *required by law* in SLC. And in the LATimes, the Bolsa Chica wetlands at Huntington Beach (SoCal) have been re-linked to the ocean to allow the marshland flora and fauna to return. That's very cool!
jo/nm
I think our ocean currents and Pacific High Pressure will determine the outcome of who dries up first. The last 3 years the pacific high which moves south to LA in the winter has stayed up off the Washington coast pushing the jet stream south. We used to get what you guys are getting in Co. Now all the moisture out of the gulf of AK is headed south and N of the NW. GO HOME EL NINO! We are sick of your mucking up the great NW. Here is my under sink set up. The drain sink on the right is the collector, the black line through the floor goes to the tank (3/4") rubber, the green line going up is the vent. I made sure that this is at the highest point of under the sink.
Thanks for the picture of your drain set up Soferdig. I wonder if I could arrange such a thing under my kitchen sink. Maybe I could link it to a rainbarrel. Problem is there are so many things I could do to save water and it will take a lot of time and mula to do them. I have taken big steps this summer and last summer, but there are so many more to go. For instance, my rain gutters are way too small. They don't begin to handle all the runoff from my roof.
Here in Los Alamos we have a good water supply from wells because we are on the side of the mountain and it has good aquafers. The Indians gave( sort of) us this water when the government built the national laboratory here in the early 40's, but the rights go back to the Indians if the town goes away. In the meanwhile, though, shortages of ground water aren't a problem. Of course, the county council dreams of adding more people through subdivisions. That would, of course, require more water and land. Water is easier for us to get than land.
Anyhow, there are quite a few water disputes smoldering in New Mexico, but they are isolated pockets. Several small communities in the Espanola valley were settled by the Spanish several centuries ago. They have had unlimited use of ground water since they arrived. Trouble is several local Indian tribes went to court and claimed these people took water rights rightfully belonging to the Indians who were here first. The suit literally lasted 40 years but was finally settled about a year ago. The Indians won because they had used that water for irrigation before the arrival of Europeans and well known anthropologists testified on behalf of the Indians.
The result is that a few thousand people lost their rights to ground water that their families had been using for generations. Needless to say the sparks flew. The lawsuit is settled but the government is supposed to provide a water system for those who lost their rights to wells, but the government has not yet allocated money for such a system. There are threats to meter the wells and for the Indians to charge for the water used. It is not at all clear how this will be implemented. There has been no blood, but there is a lot of salt in old wounds here in parts of the Espanola valley. Indians and Hispanics carry some resentment toward each other since colonial times without the water dispute.
And in this area there are other water disputes, such as a subdivision near Santa Fe which was built with wells that didn't produced enough water to supply the subdivision. Somehow people bought the houses anyhow. These subdivisions are not within any city limits and have run out of water on several occasions. Somehow they squeak through each time, but I am amazed people continue to buy and sell these houses.
Then there is the lawsuit between New Mexico and Texas which requires New Mexico to send a certain amount of water to Texas which is often difficult to do.
We hear a lot about water around here and there were gunfights among ranchers in the past among ranchers over the use of water holes. To my knowledge there have been none lately. At times it has been close though.
I feel that using grey water is good for the soil and with no wells within any area it is not to be a problem. The sink aparatus only cost about 10 bucks. The tank I use is large and cost 300. I used a sump pump so it shuts off when water is emptied. I don't have to worry about burning out a motor. The pressure is higher than our house water pressure and runs the 100' soakers I have well.
This is the green vent hose to prevent overflow (unless the sink is full). It is placed just under the sink lip level.
The Denver area used to be known for all the beautiful fountains. In all this summer, I have never seen a single fountain on. Even that gorgeous huge one at the Englewood train station. When I first visited Denver in 1988, that's one of the first things that impressed me, all the lovely fountains. Now they're gone.
And amid all that fuss and fury earlier today, the rain passed over central Aurora AGAIN!
The area where I live are on a well-share. You can have 9 homes hooked up to our well....our deeds show we each own 1/9 of the well. A trustee is elected and they pay the electric bill and any other expenses out of escrow account. Each home is supposed to pay $15.00 per month into this escrow.
Here's the rub....in AZ you can't keep them from getting water even if they do not pay their share...and we have some that does not pay. The only recourse is a judgement against that share, and if they ever sell their home, then you can collect.....BUT...you'd have to keep going to court each time you wanted to bring the total judgement up to date in the right amount of money owed.
Our area requires 4 acres to build on....and it's certainly not because it doesn't PERK.
We have such good water....the state checks it periodically.
Jo
We got 1.95 inches yesterday afternoon including a bit of hail in a couple of hours. I wish I had more rainbarrels and wider gutters! Every container I own is full. I can't remember when New Mexico has been so green.
Sorry for those of you who aren't getting any rain, but I promise you this state has been dry as a bone for several years now and has had its share of horrible forest fires.
I really feel for you.
Betty
White_Hydrangea, you spoke too soon. We have had heavy downpours since about 8:30 a.m., and it looks to last much of the day.
Guess what our landscaping task is this weekend:
Digging new drainage diversion flower beds.
signed, Mud Woman
