Roots Easily In Water II

I don't know what anyone else was talking about, but I was talking about using chick grit for a soil topping to avoid damp off and gnats. I don't know if there's any benefits of mixing it in the soil, other than changing the ph, but I wouldn't use chick grit for that. But, I may be wrong....anyone can correct me, as usual, I'm ready to learn!

I'm sorry but I also think we are getting way off topic from water rooting, lol. I don't want to discourage anyone from asking any questions, but this thread was intended for info about water rooting and I don't want to overlook that.

If someone wants to start another thread about soil rooting we could discuss lots and lots of things there! ....and you already may have started a thread, I really should go look, lol!

Thanks,
Heather

Bubbler failed again (or maybe I should say I failed again)..big sigh. Started some petunias again yesterday. This time I'm trying larger cuttings.

Beaker, can you take pics of your cuttings?

I've not used a bubbler yet, but am going to try it. Do the cuttings need light to root? In other words, it gets pretty grey up here in WA and if I'm doing cuttings this winter, should I put the bubbler under a shop light?

heathrjoy, I read your discription of the Bubbler and am looking forward to trying it. I went to Walmart to buy the things you described but found I had a question. They had 2 Whisper Pumps which is what I want because it would be quieter. They had one with 2 outlets that was for a 30-60 gal. tank and a smaller one that had only one outlet that was for a 10-30 gal. tank. I wanted to get the larger one because it had 2 outlets but will it be too forceful (disturb the water too much) in something as small as the bucket or even the 33 gal. tub? Can the flow be ajusted on them? Its been years since I've had one and can't remember if there are any adustments on them.

The one I have has a valve to control the air flow.

Is the pump that comes in a water fountain the same? I have one of those already.

No, the pump you need for a bubbler is an external air pump, a fountain pump is submerged in the water.

Most air pump don't have adjustments on them . Just buy the little valves or "T"s and add more " blue stones [ brand name of air stones . ]
The 2 outlet one is better because you can do 2 or 4 buckets , tubs or plant pots - [ if you you plant pots , Just put the thick plastic bags into pots before you put in water . [ Kids sand bucket work too ]
I say it's better to have more pots than less . If one cutting has a bug , diease - it doesn't go to the others [ more than one varity ] It's also easier to seperate the roots .
Remember to put toothpicks in bottom of cuttings to keep off the bottom .
There is a lot more info on Brug forum about starting cuttings .

Hi everyone, sorry I've been gone for a bit again. Hadn't been feeling well again...blah, blah, blah. LOL.

Water fountain pumps aren't the same, they pump water not air. Which is a big bummer because they could really do some serious bubbling!

As far as needing light to root, yeah, light is needed. Not direct sunlight, but not complete darkness either. Add the shop light. How long you leave it on and how close you have it to your plants/cuttings depends on what they are. It also depends on if you are overwintering things or rooting them for new growth. If I'm losing or confusing you we can get into more detail.

I agree with what everyone else said about the pumps. Most don't have adjustments, if you have one that does you're blessed! If I were you I'd get the pump with more outlets. I doubt very much that it will have any difference in output, if there is any difference it'll probably be very little. The only reason I mentioned earlier about the flow being too forceful was because of specific problems someone was having...trying to bubble in individual cups (which I still think is a great concept...but needs to be enlarged a bit like tonyjr is saying, in kid's sand buckets). If you're going to use a bucket or a tub that kind of container won't be too small and the bubbles won't be too forceful. You won't have any problems. Get the bigger one, you won't regret it at all!!

I'm going to make another post in a minute.

Tonyjr, have you used the sand buckets to bubble in? If so are you putting the air stones right into the buckets? What size stones are you using...4" or the small cylinder size?

This sounds like a really good idea, going back to Beaker's idea of using cups to bubble in. It would keep things separated and no worries about diseases or bugs, etc. As you said it would be PERFECT for Brugs. If there's a specific thread about this on the Brug forum can you link to it or direct me to it please?

I've not gotten to set up or try the cylinder set up like Beaker gave me the bug to try, lol. I will be trying it, I just don't know when. I think I'll be doing it w/ kid's sand buckets, I'm sure I can find them on clearance somewhere right now...I'm thinking dollar store. I still need to get those cylinders though.

I think this would be such a great and easy set up for on a shelf, with a shop light over top of it. Anyone else think of anything I'm missing here?

Thanks for the info on the water pump versus the air pump. I was planning to try and pump air through it rather than its original use as a water pump. It should be a simple device that pumps whatever is going through it, but who knows? I got it free and will probably try it anyway just for fun. :)

Please take pics as you're reworking your pump, all of us would like to know how to do that. Wouldn't it be fun to be able to bubble a kiddie pool? I just have no idea what I'd do with that many plants!

Hmmm, come to think of it my bath tub does have one of those whirlpool thingies. I hardly ever use it. Even though it's adjustable I think that might be too forceful.....unless......

What's the deal about the toothpicks? Do the cuttings need to be kept out of contact with the bottom of the rooting container?

I was wondering about the toothpicks myself, but then I was reading about some Sweet Potato Vine and I think I figured it out, by George!

If I did figure it out, the reason for the toothpicks is to keep the cuttings elevated in their containers so that the leaves do not touch the water. What a great idea, huh?! How did we miss that one? Especially when our grandmothers have been doing it for years and years! Duh!

I guess we got too wrapped up in our newfangled ways of doing things, us youngfolk.


...or maybe I'm wrong and missing the whole point of the toothpicks.

Hum...I do remember reading about toothpicks and sweet potato vines, but this reference was to brugs. I'm wondering if, just in general, the stems should be kept up to promote stimulation of the cut surface. Just musing away here seeing as I've had such lousy luck. The instructions I received with the gel packs I bought, indicate to keep all plant parts from contact with the bottom of the gel container and the leaves away from contact with the sides of the propragator.

Something else I just picked up on is letting a cutting dry for a day or so to create a callous. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't do that with fleshy stems like impatients, but what plants should you do this with? I think the reference was to pels, but should this be applied to other stems that get woody with age, such as lantana?

I was reading a thread in the European forum about someone who had attended a seed saving seminar or class. How I wish there were some classes around here for suff like that. A gal I'm trading seed with in England suggested I try lantana in course sand; nothing more and see if I have more luck, but I'd really like to be able to use water. I'm beginning to think that maybe I shouldn't use tap water. Maybe too many chemicals in my urban location. I'm also wondering if my stem snips are doing too much damage to the cutting. Maybe I need to use something finer like a razor blade or something. But that sort of goes against what I've read about roughing up the surface of the cut a bit to promote growth stimulation.

Hi Beaker,
Someone somewhere told you to question everything and you hit the ground running without questioning them, didn't you? LOL

I do see your point in keeping the cuttings elevated, but I don't know if it's to keep them stimulated. Maybe it's to prevent contact with a surface that could become contaminated, to prevent rot. That would be my guess anyway. In any case, I don't think it could hurt to elevate the cuttings, although there are some things I wouldn't want to be poking holes into. Some cuttings wouldn't survive toothpick holes very well, things like Petunias, Impatiens and the like.

Now about letting things dry for a day or so to creat a callous. I've never done that when rooting in water. Actually, I don't think I've ever done that at all. I know I've read about it, but I've never done it. I would have to say it goes against water rooting, but again, I'm not an expert on any of this. You could actually try letting one cutting callous and put the other one in the bubbler fresh and see which does better.

You may be on to something with your idea of too many chemicals in urban water. Have you checked the pH of your water? That alone may be causing a lot of problems. You can get some simple pH test strips in the pet dept. (fish supplies) at Wal-Mart rather cheaply, or maybe you'd rather just get a big ole bottle of water and try that and see what happens.

Let us know how it's going.

Oh, as far as what plants to let callous over....I think that is usually for the ones that end up with more woody stems. But, even then it's not all of them. That's why I never let anything callous over, I just dunk it or pot it.

Whenever I'm stumped on how to root something, I've found that doing a Google search with the common name of the plant plus the word propagation will get lots of info. Petunia propagation, daffodil propagation, Rose of Sharon propagation, etc. You may or may not find info about rooting in water. You can search for water rooting or water propagation and see what you get, but usually there's not as much info. I take the info for soil rooting and just replace the soil with a bubbler.

I setup a bubbler last night. I used an empty cat litter bucket and filled it about 5" deep with water. Just enough so that the cups could sit on the bottom and the water wouldn't go above the rim. I bought a pump meant for a 10-15 gal aquarium, and i used a t-splitter to put 2 1" air stones into the bucket. There don't seem to be a lot of bubbles, certainly not enough for bubbles to be around or through all the cups. Is that a requirement or is just having bubbles in the water enough?

I was hoping to have 2 buckets off this pump, but maybe it isn't powerful enough?

Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond. I've not been on DG much, so it's hit and miss.

The more bubbles the better. If the bubbles are in and around all of the cups then each cutting will be getting more oxygen, or at least that's my thinking.

I don't think you need a more powerful pump, I think you need a bigger air stone. Two 1 inch air stones aren't going to put off enough bubbles for a kitty litter pan, but a 12 inch air stone will. The way air stones work is that the more area that is covered with the blue "sand paper" looking stuff, the more bubbles you get. So try to get a stone that looks like solid stone (solid "sand paper" blue), and not a plastic one with a sticker on top. That's explained more in my DG Diary (which I know is long, when I have time I want to edit it). If it's cheaper for you or easier for your set up you could go with two 4 inch stones.

Next time I get to Wal-Mart I'm going to check the output on the pumps, but I really don't think there's much difference in any of them...at least not for what we're using them for. Unless you're going to set up an entire room off of one pump, and then you may want something industrial with a noise reducer on it!

Of course I forgot to say something, I always do. Sheesh.

I did finally get to pick up the little cylinder air stones, but I haven't yet gotten to use them. I haven't been able to find any sandbuckets, etc. on clearance yet, but I haven't looked too well either. I've had a lot going on with my health and family issues.

I also have four ferrel kittens I've taken in and am earning their trust before they go to new homes. For now they are residing in my plant room, which is the major reason I don't have the new system set up. They love to play in water, LOL!! I just don't need the extra messes. If this link works you can see them here http://happycats.wordpress.com/happy-cats/
and if you live near me you can adopt one when they are ready! =^..^=

ah thanks heathrjoy! I'll go out and look for a longer air stone tomorrow. those kittens are so very cute! I know they'll keep you busy.

I went to Walmart in Tuscaloosa today. Checked out the aquarium supply department. I found a 12 inch 'bendable buble curtain' for aerating aquarium water. This size is for 2 gal or larger. The type bends to any shape, and brushes clean for maintenance. The tube goes under acquarium gravel, connects to air tubing and to zan anti-siphon valve which is supplied. The instructions say to allow 48 hours for the air to distribute evenly in the wand. I wonder if this is as good or not as good as the air stones we have been using?

You know Gloria I've looked at these at Wal-Mart also and I've never bought one, until tonight I've never done any research on them either. Well, I should have. I think that maybe they are better than the air stones, because they are bendable. I always thought they were something different...that they put off bubbles in a different way than the air stones did...bigger bubbles. After poking around on the net for a bit I really think they are the same thing, just made differently and possibly better.

These ones are said to never clog, and if they do clog you can just poke new holes in them with a pin. Clogging would result from very hard water.

Thanks for bringing this up, otherwise I would have missed it completely!

thanks gloria, i'm just about to go look for a 12" air stone. I'll for these instead.

If there is still any interest in this thread I have continued it here http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/679770/

I have been away for a while because I have not been feeling well, sorry about that. I've missed everyone.
Heather

Update from Augest 20
Has anyone done Yesterday,today and tomorrow ?
I get flowers but either no seed or they are gone when I check . Never had volunteers from seed .
This is the big variety - 3 inch flowers .
The cuttings just sat there - I kept changing water - yesterday I broke one to see if it was green -was just a twig .

Some Clematis will root in plain water.