Roots Easily In Water II

Tonyjr, I tried rooting Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow in the bubbler this spring with no luck and was very surpised. It is a Dianthus, right? It's the only Dianthus I've not had luck rooting in the bubbler, most root very well. It was very early spring when I tried this plant though, and I didn't know if it was temps or the plant, so give it a try and please let us know how you do. I had got the cuttings from a friend and would like to know how you make out.

I was really excited the first week but then things started going south. I will try without the h2o2 first next time. I wonder about the pots that I am trying to root cuttings in now; if they would benefit from sitting in an inch or so with the air stones?

I have had luck with the the yesterday today and tomorrow-Brunsfelia or something like that. Mine go to seed alot, and I've grown a 3 foot bush from the seeds, but man they grow slow as molasses! Haven't really tried cuttings.

Thanks RJ.

Sheila, I think that adding a bubbler to those pots would probably just bubble the soil out of the bottom of them and make a mess...but what do I know?

Well I put used dryer sheets in the bottom of my pots, so the soil shouldn't escape. I was just thinking they would keep moist and the water wouldn't get stagnant. With our heat here, and my absent mindness my pots tend to dry out sometimes.

Let us know how it works out. I'm hoping to get my bubbler set up either tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll let y'all know when I have everything posted in my diary.
.

Algae growing in not quite dry clothes makes them stiff. Fabric softener sheete are an excellent addition.
Larry

Coffee filters work too.

While I was out searching for information about cuttings (failing here miserably), I think I found one more thing I've been doing wrong. I thought I was told or read the cut should be below the leaf nodes. According to my lastest find, it indicates that the cut should be 45 degrees through the leaf node. Does that jive with what all you successful propagators are doing?

I also found information about alternatives for rooting hormones. The first is a honey/water solution (1/4 cup honey to 3/4 boiling water). They don't actually say what to do with it, so I'm not sure if you are suppose to root full strength or just add some to your cutting water. The second one is to dust the cut ends of stems with confectioner's sugar. Anyone ever hear of these??? It kind of makes sense to me because, in the baking world, you feed yeast with sugar to make it grow.

I also found Chick Grit at a farm store and picked up a bag. Well, not really. It was 50 lbs and I couldn't budge it. After I opened it, I don't think this is what I really wanted. This looks like small stones that have a lot of cut edges and not ground up shells. Anyone know where you can find the ground up shells?

Am now spraying Super Thrive on cuttings. Trying anything to make this work.....

I would never cut THROUGH the leaf node. A small amount of decay will inevitably effect the end of the cutting. If you cut through the leaf node, you will rot off the part that is necessary for producing roots.

I agree with greenjay, don't cut THROUGH the leaf node. Cut about a 1/4 inch below it. That's what I usually do. If I'm wrong someone PLEASE correct me.

This is what I do whenever I take a cutting of anything...

Inspect the plant and look for a branch/tip with good, healthy, new growth that has no signs of bugs, disease or other signs of stress. I use a sharp pair of clean scissors to cut. I always cut a longer piece than I need. When I cut from the plant I cut at a 45* angle about a 1/4" ABOVE a leaf node, that allows better healing and regrowth for the plant. Then I take the cutting to the bubbler (or where ever I'm rotting it). I remove the leaves that would be below the water line and I make a fresh cut on the end, usually cutting off a leaf node if there is room on the cutting. I cut straight across about 1/4" BELOW a leaf node. Then I put the cutting into the water immediately, if I didn't cut it underwater (it's always a good idea to cut underwater if you can). That's all there is to it.

I don't remember how all of this works, or the technicalities of it, but leaf nodes contain hormones. That's what causes them to branch new shoots, blooms or roots. If you cut through a leaf node you'd destroy the hormones and get no roots. If you cut too far below a node the stem will most likely rot and spoil your water or cutting. Look for the leaf nodes before taking cuttings, some are spaced far apart on some plants. If you want roots you need a node in most cases.


Also, Beaker, sometimes too much is too much. =^) Or, less is more.
I'm concerned that if you use the honey water, powdered sugar, SuperThrive and bubbler it may be too much and you just won't know what to blame for the failure. I'd hate to see you frustrated. On the other hand you could have amazing results. I don't know what would happen, but I know this for certain....some plants like Petunia will root in a simple glass of water if it's changed every couple of days.

What plants are you trying to root? I'll try to help you find info. I've had really good results Googling things with the plant name + the word "propagation". Use the common name first, if no results try the scientific name. Let me know how you make out.

Hope this info helps. I will do my best to get the bubbler set up and the info posted into my diary tomorrow.

Oh, Chick Grit does look like small broken stones. Mine is pink and foritfied with calcium. Does yours say that it's fortified with calcium? I don't think that all Chick Grit is the same, but I'm not sure...the feed salesperson or a chicken farmer would know best. All Chick Grit is for is to help the baby chicks digest their food. It's a no teeth kinda thing. Like pigeons pick the grit off shingles and eat pebbles....same thing.

If you are using the CG to protect against the fungus gnats it will work whether it is made of shells or has calcium or not. It's simply the idea of a rough surface on top of the soil and something that dries faster than the soil does...if I remember correctly. It'll work though, I've used it and it works great. Try some ground cinnamon for fungus gnats also.

Having said all that, did you happen to notice that this thread is about rooting in WATER?? LOL =^)

I just came across this thread. I have been using a bubbler all summer, outside, shaded, have not changed the water, just top it off. No H202, and have had geranium, coleus, hibiscus, passionflower, various houseplants, all rooting within two weeks, I put burg cuttings in two days ago, and they are showing nubs today. I think sometimes less is more. I really like using it, cuts down my effort. I just cut the plants, and stick em in, pull them out and plant them. I have had two woody, trumpet vines get slimey.
So I give thumbs up for the bubbler.

Viv

I failed miserably with water and a bubbler. I do have a few rooting in gel. Looks like the double impatients and the torenia took. Losing lantana and petunias left and right. Going back to the bubbler this weekend for those. As far as I know, only two geraniums have rooted. I have a bunch of those in the 10 inch bulb pots. Started another pot just a few days ago with mostly cuttings from the regals and ivy geraniums and lantana. The lantana went belly up almost immediately. I am getting frustrated, but am trying various methods to see if I can get ANY of them to work for me (LOL). Am now eyeing plants at work as a possible source of cuttings as I'm running out of plants at home. I would estimate that in the past few weeks I've killed off about 40 cuttings. However, I'm determined to keep at it until I figure this out.

Here's the conflicting information about cutting the stem. On this site, it says to recut stems at a 45 degree angle, taking off an additional inch.

http://gardengal.net/page43.html

And then, this is what it said on another site, but didn't get the URL:

"Cut the stems at a 45 degree angle across the bottom leaf nodes. Gently scrap the cut area around the bottom of the stem. This disrupts the cells on the stem surface and helps them change into root cells. Take whatever rooting hormone you have purchased and dip the bottom of the stem into your rooting compound."

Don't intend to use the sugar water, but I have noticed a marked improvement of some the cuttings since I started misting with super thrive and water. I have some pink wave petunia seedlings started and they've just been sort of sitting in their pots not doing anything seems like for weeks. I started misting them and I can now tell they are growing.

Beaker, don't lose hope!! I've been there! Really, I have. That's why when I found the bubbler I never went back. You WILL get these things rooted and figured out!

I looked at the site you linked to and I didn't have time to read it all, but I searched it for the word "node" and didn't find it anywhere. I did find where they said to do a 45* angle cut, but they didn't mention where to cut. Also what you quoted above only says to do the 45* cut across the bottom leaf node. Do you read that as meaning through?

One thing I have learned the hard way....when learning things off of the net make sure the site your learning from has info that lines up with 2 or 3 other sites. Anyone can make a website and post any info they like, info that works for them alone....because they "happen" to leave a step out. But, if 2 or 3 other sites agree with the info then you can be pretty sure it's good info. I got myself into a mess with planting tomatoes one year because I followed some real bad info from 1 single site. The info worked great for the guy who published the site, but not for me...or anyone else! LOL!

What I would suggest is this...cutting at a 45* angle about a 1/4 (or even less) below the last leaf node. I said in the one post that I could be wrong in my info and that anyone should correct me if I'm wrong!!! =^) It also sounds like most of this info is for rooting in soil, so keep that in mind also. From now on I'll be cutting at an angle on my cuttings, thank you for teaching me that.

About the scraping thing. I don't remember ever hearing about doing that. I would be nervous to do that. I'd be afraid I'd scrape away too much of the leaf node....hormone thingys I was talking about before. I guess I'd be willing to try rubbing my fingernail or the blade of the scissors across the leaf node a couple times to rough it up....on half of my cuttings anyway. Thinking about it I guess it makes some sense to get things exposed there, so that roots will form. And, I don't know a whole, whole lot of what I'm talking about, but I do know some. (Again, anyone please jump in here.) Some plants will not need this at all...Wandering Jews, Vinca Vines (Minor), Pothos, Coleus, Impatiens and Brugs are a few things that come to mind...those plants will often put off roots wherever they touch soil.

For the Lantana, are you using green cuttings or woody? Woody cuttings of most anything are much harder to root. I'd also say to take cuttings from work. Just wrap them in wet paper towel and put in plastic baggies till you get home...take the cuttings as late in the day as you can.

Also, Petunias seedlings often quit growing because of lack of light. They require a LOT of light and it needs to be close. Going from memory, I think the light needed is 14-16 hours and it should be no further than 6 inches above them. Checked that and it's correct. That's for two 40 watt flouro lights....shop lights.

Hope that helps!
Heather

Hum, my lights are about a foot up. I didn't think they would need to be so close for cuttings. OK, I'll drop those. Yes, I thought it meant through the leaf node. I'm using green tip cuttings on the Lantana. I do have a couple still going in the gel that haven't croaked yet. Going back to the bubbler this weekend and trying Lantana again and petunias again.

I may also be too much in a hurry to toss what I think is dead. I went to toss the torenia because the top part looks gone, but when I picked them out, lo and behold, they have roots. So I put those puppies back.

For both cuttings and seedlings I keep the lights about 2" above the leaves. I would put them closer, but some seedlings have been known to jump that much in one day and I don't want to fry them while I am at work!

LOL, Greenjay. I've fried some that way too. You do have to keep a good eye on them when they are little and growing so fast...I'm bad at that. That's why I love rooting in a bubbler so much! =^)

Beaker, I thought you said you had Petunia seedlings. Cuttings and seedling are different. For my cuttings I keep them shaded, that's cuttings of anything. Once they show new roots (in water) or show new growth (in soil) then you can give them more light. It's a good idea to introduce them to light like you are hardening off a new plant from the nursery.

It's chilly and rainy here today...autumn is coming quick....ho, hum. DH also started back to work last night after having a week off. Combine the two and that means I should have time to set up my bubbler...finally! I'll do my best to get that done early this afternoon and post it asap. I'll post here when the pics are up.


Oh, Beaker, yes, don't be throwing out the cuttings unless they are showing signs of rot, overdryness, or after about a month in the bubbler still show no signs of roots. I've had Clematis stay healthy looking in the bubbler for a very long time, but it never sprouted roots for me...it was a small 3-leaf cutting, probably not big enough to form roots, I don't know.

I'll be back later today after I get the bubbler set up in my diary. Have a great Saturday everyone. Beaker, we will get this figured out for you...then you'll be a rooting maniac!!!

Ihad about 30 mint cuttings in a bubbler and just 3 rooted. :o(

The petunias were an afterthought several weeks ago. I just tossed about 5 seeds in a pot outside and forgot about them. Three came up, but just sort of sat there. I brought them in about two weeks ago and put them under the lights and they just sat there. I started misting with the super thrive and saw some response. I dropped the lights yesterday and I swear one of them has doubled in size.

So, I shouldn't have any lights on my cuttings at all? I always thought they needed a good south window. Since I don't have that, I put them under high lights. I didn't start with the lights, I added those and thought there was some sign of improvement. It seems at least they lasted longer. Maybe I should raise them again. One of the petunia seedlings could be potted up and put out. The other two are still very tiny. If I take the lights out altogether, the only light would be what they get from an east window.

Do the thickness of the stems have anything to do with whether it would be a good candidate for rooting? The Million Bells are very thin and don't seem to last very long. Maybe I should be taking longer cuttings on those and leave more leaves. The Lantana I cut at about 5 inches and then, with the final cut about 4. Maybe those should be longer. I've been noticing on the geraniums, the bigger the cutting, the more chance of success. I ran across a thread yesterday where one gal said she had better success with using woody stems on geraniums rooting in water. The ones that rooted for me have been the larger cuttings. Well, off to select this weekend's victims. If I'm using a normal size glass, should I only be putting a few cuttings in or can I jam in as many as it will hold. ANy suggestions on the type of container for bubbler cuttings? I think vases I have are way too big.

Spider, LOL, I thought mint propagated itself...everywhere.

I'm going to post the bubbler set up in my diary right now. I didn't want anyone to think I had forgotten. I will post again with a link when it's finished. It shouldn't be too long, I hope.

Ok everyone, the Bubbler set up is listed in my DG Diary here http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/heathrjoy/4189/
hope that helps. If I forgot anything, and don't be surprised if I did, just let me know and I'll fix it. I was trying to hurry and get it posted....sorry it took me this long.

That is a great step by step that you have made! I may have had a container too big for my one pump to circulate, and I didn't weight the stones down. I will try again later though. Thanks!

Glad it helped. =^)

Well, this is helpful. Where did you get your airstone? It doesn't look anything like mine and it's twice as big. Is it for any particular size aquarium?

Thank you so much for this additional information and pictures. Going to give this another try soon!

I'm pretty sure I picked mine up at Wal-Mart. It's about 4" long. I also have some longer ones, maybe about 10" long...I can't find them right now, lol. I use the bigger ones for the Rubbermaid containers. I don't think they are sold for any certain size aquarium, it's just whatever size you want.

I just looked on eBay, if anyone is interested, and found this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Two-2-Blue-Durable-air-stones-6_W0QQitemZ7756450686QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3212QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Those are 6", but a great deal even w/ shipping. Those ones blow bubbles out all sides. Where ever the blue looking sandpaper is is where the bubbles come from.

Same thing as above but 4"
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Aquarium-Air-Stone-4-Inch_W0QQitemZ130000306048QQihZ003QQcategoryZ20755QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You do NOT want the little cylinder shaped ones. I've never used them and don't think they would put off enough bubbles to work in this set up. If those little cylinder ones were to be put in individual glasses I think they would cause too much disturbance and may actually keep roots from forming. Again guys, I'm just guessing on this, but it's what I think would happen. Now, if you were to use a small Tupperware container I think one of the cylinder stones would probably work well...letting cuttings of things like Wandering Jew float and root. That's not a bad idea and I may just get some of those and set them up. They'd be very easy to line up a chain of them onto one air pump and have many containers set up in a row, as long as you can run from one cylinder to another and they still pump out enough air. If I do it I'll post it in my DG Diary and let y'all know.

I have a few more pics I'm going to post to my Diary right now. I really didn't realize this would help all of you out so much. I'm glad it has. =^) !!!!

heathrjoy, can you put the item #s in your post, the links don't work, I guess because you are signed in on Ebay. Thanks

Oh, sorry Sheila. I was afraid it would do something weird like that.
here's the #s
6" stone #4326637039
two 6" stones (20 available) #7756450686
4" stone 130000306048

I don't know any of those sellers and I didn't look at any of their feedback, so check them out good. I was just listing these as examples of the kind of air stones I have...check out my Diary for more info on air stones too, I put a lot of info in there. Ask any questions you have and if I can I'll help you out.

I just did a search on eBay for air stone. Then looked under pet supplies. Some of the better results seemed to come up under the Stores listings...at the bottom of the page...all with Buy It Now prices. Most looked like pretty good deals...but all I have available to me is Wal-Mart. Remember you all can call your local stores and ask for a price check on air stones...they'll do it for you...and not know who you are, lol!! If you live in an area that has a Petsmart, etc. you may have better prices. I don't know. I live in a very small rural area. Also, call your relatives...more than likely someone has an aquarium set up in their attic going to waste right now!! =^)


I got a bunch more posted in my DG Diary here
http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/heathrjoy/4189/
and will post some more later this evening, but need to go outside for a bit. Been on the computer all day and I'm getting googley eyed, lol. Could someone let me know what date shows up first when they enter my Diary? Is it the 26 or 27? I see it differently than everyone else I think. Thanks. Let me know if y'all think I'm missing anything.

Be back in a bit.

Healthjoy, are you saying that the cuttings should not be directly in contact with the bubbles?

I think it's ok if they are in direct contact with the bubbles, as long as the bubbles aren't too forceful. I've never used the cylinder type air stones and I don't know what they are like. I try to get the bubbles to go right into the cups in my Bubbler. I think if those cylinder stones were put right in the cups it might be too much disturbance for the cuttings and no roots would form...but I'm not sure, I've never used them. Can you send a pic of them working?


Ok, I think my DG Diary of Bubbler may just be finished. Please let me know if y'all think it's missing something....and the date it starts with. Thanks! http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/heathrjoy/4189/

This is what I had going in June that nothing took.

I've never done a set up like that but I think that may be too many bubbles for a container that size. Also, if you were adding H2O2 to those cups, unless you were adding drops, I'm pretty sure you were adding too much.

Once I'm able to get some of those cylinder type stones I'll play around with them and see what I come up with.

chick grit: You can get grit at the pet store. Oyster shell is used for exotic birds. Its expensive I thought though. I ordered mine on line from PetCo. Coir (lizard bedding), and other supplies are at the pet store also. It pays to look around. I understand crushed limestone works as well as oyster shell to deter fungus gnats and keep leaves off the soil surface in propagation. "crush and run" is cheap from your local landscape supply.

Wouldn't crushed limestone change the ph of the soil?

heathrjoy: since oyster shell and limestone are both essentially calcium carbonate any effect on soil pH should be the same. Always best to measure.

Right....they are the same....sorry. "DOH!" (To quote Homer Simpson)

the limestone is just prehistoric shell.

Grain elevators sell grit and oyster shell. A birds gizzards uses grit like we do teeth, it may or may not be calcium carbonate.. Oyster shell is used to produce thicker shells. I have had all four genera of chickens. Mediterranean (white eggs), Indochinese (brown eggs), South American (green eggs) and the Chinese Black Chicken (Silky bantam).
This mentions a price of $8 for 50 libras (lb) 50/50 granite and oyster shell:
http://www.interbug.com/pigeon/learn/hc1.html

Is this really any better than using Perlite?? I get this at a local nursery - a 3 cu ft bag for about $12.00. I mix it with my compost and also for rooting things with a little potting soil mixed in.