Conifers: What are you growing?

Wow...I feel so left out. I don't have any pines/conifers/firs. Just a couple of yews that I hate, but have whipped into shape over the last 4 years in hopes of killing them, but it didn't work. I'd rather have clethras there, actually.

There's a nursery by me that sells miniature pines/conifers/firs that are cute...but I really want a metasequoia. Or some kind of taxodium.

Looking forward to Rich's tomorrow. It'll be an edumacation! And I'm thinkin' French food, Equil.

This message was edited Apr 7, 2006 9:58 PM

I don't care for burgers myself. Not that I'm a food snob but I like fish so I'm thinking the French place will work. I'm looking forward to tomorrow too.

You guys have a great time, I am really envious would love to travel along and also to see the conifers. No place near here, have to go south to Oregon.

DonnaS

Of course I remember. I loved that program.

We got there bright and early this morning and their plants were all over the place. They were frantically rushing here there and everywhere like chickens with their heads cut off. It's that time of year again!

I was able to buy the P. banksiana 'Uncle Fogy' that I wanted really bad and was very pleased with the tree I picked out. I was also able to get two P. sylvestris 'Hillside Creeper' and the man who picked them out for me chose two that had excellent shapes to them. His name was Tom and he was really great to work with. I am thrilled with the two 'Hillside Creeper' plants. I have to take a photo of those tomorrow to show all of you as they are way cool plants. I was able to get the Ginkgo biloba 'Princeton Sentry' but they only had one 'Autumn Gold' left and it didn't look too happy to me so I chose to wait until next year for that plant. Big bummer for me is that they didn't have any Taxodium distichum 'Fastigiata' left in the 6 gallon size. He suggested a T. distichum 'Shawnee Brave' but I really had my heart set on the 'Fastigiata'. Other than that, I have to wait for a Metasequoia glyptostroboides, Dawn Redwood ‘Gold Rush'. They had a 6 gallon for $275 but I wasn't in the mood to pay more than a $125 for that particular plant so I sort of wanted it in the 3 gallon size.

We're going back next year. I'd like to pick up the plants I missed out on this year. That Tom guy was really helpful. Next year I'm going back for the 'Fastigiata', the 'Autumn Gold', and the 'Gold Rush' in the size I want. This place was a real trip. They had garden paths that were sort of like a labyrinth. There was a pond that was centrally located and they had gorgeous statuary and iron work through out the entire nursery. It was almost like walking through an arboretum. Most of their plants were clearly marked. I'd like to go back there later on when it is warmer just to poke around and see if there is anything else that interests me. They have phenomenal plants. If anyone is anywhere near this nursery you should stop in. The place is rammed with plants. It's a coniferaholic's dream come true. So many beautiful plants every way you turn.

Here's a photo I took when we were up by the area where they kept the smaller 1 gallon plants-

On the way home we ran across this very interesting Oak. Magnificent tree. I know the photo isn't too good but many of the lower branches were actually touching the ground. The tree has an extremely wide expanse. Isn't that a beauty!

Sounds like a wonderful place and trip, makes me even more envious. Glad you found some of the trees you wanted. At least gives you an excuse to go back next year.

Donna

Equil, I know that oak! The first time I saw it I was blown away also. Who says LOL has all the cool oaks. Right there in McHenry county. Neat. Ken

Yup, gives me an excuse to go back next year! Maybe even earlier!

That definitely is one of the most distinctive oaks I've ever seen and it most certainly is right off of Rt 47 in McHenry County. My photo does not do it justice.

The old fella who owns that bur oak lives in the white farm house across the road and to the East, if he's still alive. I think his daughter works for ChiBot. Can't recall his name.

Guy S.

That oak looks like it is coming to get ya. Guy, I am old enough to remember wild & crazy guys and I am 31 (what do you think is the average age of members of this forum?). Rich's is great to visit in the fall also with all his maples coloring up. Plenty of good places to get cool pumkins also.

I don't think there was a farmhouse on the south side of that road but there were a few on the east side of that road but then again since I'm one of the more mature members here at the Trees Forum and since my memory could be failing me.... I think Guy should come on back up north and meet me to inspect the site in person and then we can go plant shopping again over at Foxwillow Pines and Willis could meet us. Yes, that's it. I just don't seem to recall a white farmhouse and I think I need other plantaholics to help point it out to me.

I'm (muffled giggles) 40 something ish and pushing (cough cough) 50. In all seriousness, I think the average age of DG in general is probably around 40ish. It seems like we have a real good mix. I like a good mix.

Wow, what a whopper!

WillyMac:

Don't let the stifled staggering subterfuges from the sentient senescents send you astray.

Guy and EQ came up with the idea (and then designed the prototype) for dirt. It's a wonder there is room in their gray matter for much more than remembering to head toward the smell of chocolate.

Estoppel:

Route 47 is a north-south road; I hope you didn't drive through anyone's front parlor while admiring the fine Quercus specimen.

I've seen Guy's pictures from his books. He hasn't aged much from his old book to the new one. I joined the Chicagoland cactus & succulent society about 5 years ago and just walked in on their meeting. Their average age was quite a bit older than DG and they all looked at me like I was totally lost. Guess they didn't know what to do with a 26 year old wild & crazy guy. That was back when I was one. Now it is just the crazy part.

That's par for the course with the grizzled veterans like Guy. Take a look at the first picture of the Methuselah bristlecone pine, and one today. Not much different; several millenia will do that to you.

I understand your experience with the cacti clan. I joined the Great Rivers chapter of the Holly Society of America back around 1987, about the age you described. I walked into the rarefied air surrounding such giants as Theodore Klein, Bob Simpson, Bon/Ferry Hartline, Joe Libbe (sp?), Joe Hickman, Tommy McLemore, Hal Elmore, Lloyd/Helen Hahn, Buddy Hubbuch, and so many more I'm not remembering now. I consider myself very fortunate to have basked in the shadow of their experiences for the time that I was able. Many/most of them are no longer with us, but undoubtedly are still guiding our gardening hands.

These kind and gentle souls devoted their professional and personal lives to advancing the knowledge, use, and enjoyment of this genus as well as a host of other underused species, and everyone of them could've been my grandparents. The initial shock (if there was one) soon gave way to "Fresh meat!" as in, a willing mind waiting to be filled with the lore, ways, and techniques of all things Ilex.

I may not have understood it then, but I do now. New people (age is NOT the criteria) are the future of any organization or effort, and the pleasure in plants isn't solely in ownership but is maximized in sharing. Another membership I maintain, with the International Plant Propagators' Society (IPPS), has the organizational motto quaerere et impertire or "to seek and to share."

Had it been available to them, I think these wonderful folks would have been among the Übers residing here at DG.

This message was edited Apr 9, 2006 2:26 PM

Hey VV, maybe you should come back up north too and we can all go inspect that site together. I'm really thinking it's an east west road so maybe you need to come back up and straighten me out. Time to go back outside and dig more holes.

You're holding the map sideways. Now, if you weren't on Route 47, I'll take my cartography and go away.

And, there may very well be another northbound excursion in my near future.

Silly you, I don't hold the map any way. Dodecatheon holds the map and points which way for me to turn. Sometimes I miss the turn offs and sometimes I don't. It's always an adventure when I drive and she navigates. She's actually a pretty darn good navigator. I'm actually a pretty louzy driver so even with good directions we often take the scenic route. So! Who wants to go on a road trip with me/ Don't everyone all raise their hands at once now!

East of 47 on rte 120, between Woodstock and McHenry.

Bingo, just found it. Ken nailed it:

Gordon Clark
8817 Route 120
Woodstock

I was there last in March 1999, so I don't know for sure if he's still there. I have his phone number but won't add it here for privacy reasons -- if you want to call him contact me off the forum.

Willis, I got a secret for ya -- those photos both were taken on the same day in 1992! Jim and I both look like Methuselahs now. Ancient, withered, and . . . . . . . . I forget, what were we just talking about?

Guy S.

You guys are something else! Here I was trying to get everyone to come back and visit.

In all seriousness, I thought I was on Rt 47. I called Dode and she said we were definitely on Rt 120 just like Ken said. That tree was on the north side of the street and there was a farmhouse to the left of it and another one a little bit farther up to the right of it but neither Dode or I can remember a farmhouse across the street from it. Sorry Guy, but maybe it was moved or something happened to it.

The tree definitely must be something special for this many people to remember it. It sure is an awesome tree. I didn't want to trespass so I went down into the ditch and hung over the barbed wire fence to get the photo of the tree. I'm just sorry my camera skill weren't better so others could see what we're talking about regarding the lower branches of the tree.

I think the amazing thing is that I have not been on that stretch of road in over 30 years and that tree has not changed one bit. Why that's a lifetime for an aspen destined for the paper mill up here. Someone has been "looking out" for that old oak. At one time it must have been a pasture, and oaks don't generally hold up well to pasture, but we're talking about an area between two fast growing towns, and I would have thought that land to be developed long ago. I took that route daily in a "tough" era of my life and just to look at this tree gave me hope for the future. You can't believe how good it is to see it again. Thanks, Equil.

V.V., I understand that fresh meat comment. Good thing it wasn't a carnivorous plant society. They were also wanting to share their knowledge and plants and I always felt bad as I didn't have much to offer in terms of sharing. It is kinda the same way here with knowledge. I don't have much to add, just a lot to learn.

Hey Willis, I'm in the Carnivorous Plant Circles more so than I am in the Tree and Shrub Circles. I will share with you and there's no need to offer me anything. What would you be interested in growing?

....said the spider (or Sarracenia) to the fly...

Another one bites the dust! Once you go carnivorus... you never go back.

I experimented in college, with carnivorous plants that is. Maybe I was drunk at the time. Either way, the venus fly trap didn't float my boat. I am into woodies now. I have enough tender plants with the cacti & succulents, you can see my basement winter setup in the photo. Thanks for the offer Equil. I did peek over in the carnivorous forum and you do post quite often. Is that a newer hobby?

No, not a newer hobby. I've always been into native plants. Carnivorous Plants are my babies though. Particularly the Sarracenia and the Pinguicula. Venus Fly Traps (Dionaea muscipula) are anything but a tender plant. They are a temperate speces and fare much better when planted outside year round. In our zone they can easily make it outside year round with a little mulch. Everyone tries these plants and kills them when they try to grow them inside. They need a dormancy. I think that's one of the reasons why I like them so much. No fuss and no muss for all practical purposes. Plant them outside in an appropriate area and water them with rain water. That's really about all there is to them for zone 5 and warmer. They will not fare too well in Florida, way too hot for most of that State.

Hi Equil,

I never knew Venus Flytrap was a hardy perennial. How big does it get and how big can it get (in zone 5)?

You've peaked my curiousity.

Thanks,

Dax

P.s. Does it flower or have any "showy" attributes. Heck, I can't even think of it having any other color than green from memory. Basically, I don't know much about them and vaguely remember what they look like when I used to see them as greenhouse offerings at nurseries I used to work for. Thanks for any extra info...

This message was edited Apr 11, 2006 12:18 PM

Does it big enough to eat Japanese Beatles???

Ooops, missed these questions and these are right up my alley.

Yes, they get large enough to eat Japanese Beetles and I've even had a few trap tree frogs.

Yes, they bloom. Dainty white flowers that are quite understated yet attractive. Best to nip the flowers off the first few years until they establish.

I wouldn't necessarily refer to Dionaea as a hardy perennial as it won't make it in zone 4 or cooler even with protection. I would definitely say it can withstand our brutal weather conditions provisional upon some accommodations for our vicious freeze thaw cycles. Two ways to do this, a nice thick layer of white pine needles or polar fleece. I've used both, both appear to work equally well and can be peeled off mid March. I also forgot to protect them one year and they still came back.

Their size depends on many factors. Some cultivars are larger than others. Straight species and hybrids tend to perform better in zone 5 which lends credibility to the "hybrid vigor" adage. They're best planted in full sun. They must never be allowed to dry out. These are a wetland species for all practical purposes. I address their high moisture requirements by planting mine in bogs or rain gardens. Bogs are nothing more than fancy flower beds in which you have a mix of rinsed sand and Canadian sphagnum peat. You can sink anything in your ground to create a bog from an old bathtub, to a kiddie pool, to an epdm liner, to a stock tank, or even an animal feed trough which is what I used in the photo below. I divert gutters as well as the discharge from sump pumps to some areas where I have bogs.

I grow these plants not so much for myself but to pass out to kids. No better way to get kids hooked on the sciences than by giving them a plant that intrigues them that could in theory be planted near the base of one of their rain gutters outside year round. I enjoy these plants for a few reasons but mostly for their low maintenance. Truly, once you dig out an area for your bog/rain garden and fill it with the appropriate medium... you're done other than keeping them watered. Rain water is best. They don't need fertilizer. They co-evolved in nutrient deficient environments. These plants satiate their nutrient requirements by "digesting" insects, mites, and arachnids. Simply stated, their roots are very shallow and are basically there to ground them and uptake water. If you fertilize them, they will die.

If you two want to try a few, you might want to consider purchasing them from here- http://www.flytrapfarm.com/flytraps.html
Choose the straight species and call it a day. I found this place quite by accident. I was asked to speak and provide a demonstration for a "small" group of parents with differently abled kids this spring. I always provide medium, a pot, and a plant to each kid to pot up and take home. The group started out at a manageable size of around 12 which is what I normally deal with. Word spread and they ended up with over 50 families signing up. Talk about horror struck. That wiped me out of VFTs to the extent that I had to go buy more plants to be able to donate a plant to each kid for the hands on workshop next month as well as for the next two groups I am speaking to.

Here's a photo of a simple in ground bog that I just went out and snapped for you two. You truly don't need more than this to test out if growing these will be to your liking or not. For a little added height and interest, you could add a Sarracenia flava. They're tough plants too and have similar cultural requirements-

I'm looking for one that could be really useful when deer come around.
Don't recall the botanical name, but I think its vernacular name is Audrey . . .

Guy S.

Oh lordie lordie lordie, you don't want Canis lupus familiaris "Audrey". That thing would take off after the deer to "play" and you'd be driving around for hours trying to get her back. We have to walk that thing on a leash or it would take off to be "freeeeeeeeeeee". It is particularly fond of stray cats. Actually, anything that moves would be fine. That thing gallops and there is no way you could keep up with it if it got away.

No, I was thinking of the carnivorous plant on Little Shop of Horrors. In particular, a cultivar with a taste for venison.

OK, break's over, back to work. Dig, dig, dig . . . . . . . .

Guy S.

ok hi kenton, equi and all you other latin speaking, evergreen knowldeable people, i need some advice. i planted this pinus draconis occulis last fall . for it to survive my purging tendencies( things that look straggly really bug me) i need to remove all the branches in the bottom row(collar?). can i do this now? can i pinchthe rest of it it back to make it get a little more full and intentional looking ?if so where do i pinch? if i feed it will it get bigger faster..please!
thanks in advance for your help!
taya

oops heres the picture

I would leave the lower branches for now until the tree gets bigger otherwise it might just look top heavy. Also as far as pruning/pinching, do this in the spring on the new candles before they open up. Don't do it now. I am not an expert so wait until someone with actual experience confirms my recommendations. Nice pine ya got there. Love the Oculus-draconis varieties, I am guessing it is a Pinus Densiflora.

Bill

theres other dragons eye evergreens? ok im looking up the difference between pinus and pinus densiflora... im a tree newbie and certainly a an evergreen newbie.. i have a weeping cherry pruning question where do i ask that?
and MAC thanks
taya

I am a newbie also. Welcome to the club. I am pretty sure there are other dragon's eye pines out there, but I think the more easily found one is the densiflora. I don't know if it is just densiflora pines, but do the needles close up when wet or at night? Did you find that down in Champaign? I don't remember many nurseries when I went there for school. Different priorities back then I guess. glug-glug-glug

I would start a new thread with the cherry pruning question. We love new threads here.

Bill

yeah i started a new thread just now... what did you study?
ive not noticed that it closes up, ill have to look.huh. it does look nice and puffy though right now in the dry weather.. perfect weather in fact! yeah there were only two here at a store called prairie gardens. they occasionally get some unusual things and ive not seen a single one in town at all. that can mean bad things! it seemed to have a rough time in planting it lost those lower branches... it wasnt a great specimen though. but, had to have one! . ill try to hold back on killerii prunus shearus but those bottom branches are really buggin me
taya