Planting the "Three sisters"

I'm need to get my beans in as well. I'll try and take a picture of my "circle". It doesn't look much like a circle, but hey, gardening isn't an exact science!

TamaraFaye and the others. This sounds really interesting. I would love to try the Three Sisters. Does it require a lot of room? Do any of you have pictures of your plants so far? I garden in raised beds right now. Can you do it in a raised bed?

TamaraFaye, where in the world is Fritch TX and did you really get snow in May???
Laura

I did this method in a 6' by 6' space and had plenty of room. I added a trellis along one side for more beans and a few squash. My corn is about 5" tall so it is time to get the beans in.

OOps, my corn has really enjoyed the "unseasonal" snow and rain (Yes, Laura, 6" on May 2nd, melted by 3 PM, then 100 degrees F on May 22nd!), so it is far ahead of the beans. But I will get it done soon enough I suppose....

Fritch is NE of Amarillo. Closer to 5 or 6 other states than to Corpus LOL

Corn loves RBs. I would start them in a trench, so they can get strong roots, otherwise the wind can blow them over, because you soil in a RB is so much looser. Then make sure and hill them when they are just above the trench, and again when they are less than 1 foot high.

Also, in a RB, you would not have to have the rows so far apart. I did and intensive bed last year. kinda like jburesh, and I planted them the smae distance apart each way, 12 inches.

Of course, if you do the circles, that would be fun in a RB also. But if it isn't at least 10 foot wide, you would have to just do the beans and corn in the small circles in rows, like Method 1 above. Then you could do like jburesh (I love this idea), and trellis your squash around the sides. Just leave the south side open for enough sun. Maybe plant the squash by the trellis, but let it grow some on the ground, as the point of the squash is to mulch the ground for the corn, to hold in moisture and keep out heat, and to protect from varmints. Then the corn shades the squash.

WE are gettin gstomrs here, so I need to hurry and get off, maybe tomorrow morning I can post ap icture of my corn row, though I am not sure you can see much about it yet...

Taht corn is growing! See some tassels peeking up already! Got the first row of circles fertlized, pruned, hilled, and watered. Now look at what I just read:

RADISH: Plant radishes with your squash plants. Radishes may protect them from squash borers! Anything that will help prevent this is worth a try. Planting them around corn and letting them go to seed will help fight corn borers.

from here: http://www.ghorganics.com/page2.html

I need all the help with corn borers I can get! I planted the radish there for the squash, so I guess it will do double duty. I also read that wild purslane is a great ground cover for corn, and have some of that growing there. Ate some in our salad yesterday...

My camera is acting up, but I will attempt a decent photo tomorrow.

How is everyone else's three sisters (or two) going?

Tamara

Here is my circle. Though you can't much tell it is a circle... There are nasturtium planted in there too. I also have a number of volunteer tomato plants that I haven't the heart to kill quite yet. I've just dressed the surface with used coffee grounds so the dirt looks very black.

That looks great, I think I see Marigolds in there too? And what is your trellis for? How long till you plant the beans? What kind of corn did you plant?

I took some pictures, now if I can just find the camera and get them loaded before I fall asleep LOL. I did get beans planted in the first row, the one I hilled. The other row I uncovered today to work on. Two circles have some rabbit damage (ends of row covers open to stay cool). Squash and zinnias and marigolds are up nicely. And a surprise volunteer watermelon plant looks like it is ready to bloom! had to cover them back up when storms came through. Didn't get to do anything with it, we had an incident at the gas plant. No damage, just injured eardrums, and a wasted day :(

I planted sweet corn. The beans were planted last week and are just above the surface of the soil, so can't be seen in the photo. The trellis will have some zuchinni and more pole beans on it.

In order to encourage the corn and beans to come up quicker, I soaked them in a bowl of water overnight before planting. This gives them a headstart on germinating and saves about a week.

I need to start remembering to do that! Have pictures, will post in a couple of days, when we don't constatnly have storms!

I have pictures to post--- soon!

Started another three sisters bed today. True Gold Sweet Corn, Kentucky Wonder Pole Beans, and Heart of Gold Melon.

I got some recycled landscape timbers, 6 of them, 8 foot long. Made a bed 8 ft wide by 16 long. Well, the spacing isn't perfect, because after figuring out I would need to only have two foot between circles, I got out there and had four circles dug 3 foot apart before I recalled. But it will all squeeze in:

11 total circles of corn (10 seeds each, will thin to seven-ouch), with 8 seeds of beans (will thin to four). This time I remembered to put corn in the center, two seeds actually, will keep the better seedling.

The circles are arranged four down each long side, then three staggered down the center, kinda like a double five on a domino, with an extra center thrown in. The melon "hills" are down the center, between the corn, so there will be four of those.

For companion flowers, I will put in marigolds and cosmos again, and then scatter the bed full of tokinashi daikon radish, which are supposed to germinate and grow in warm weather. Then I will border the outside of the bed with sunflowers, a double staggered row. Then a rectangular walkway around it, and rectangle of okra around that, recatngles of sunflowers around that.

Hah! That should keep the corn from crossing with another (I hope).

Will take a picture after I finish tomorrow (got five circles done tonight)...

Tamara~Cornius

Here is a link with more specific information about various Indian tribe plantings, as well as other companion planting research, etc.

I hope to start a new thread soon with more three sisters info and pictures... I'll have corn soon!

http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/complant.html

corn was good! been offf pc from hand injury, anyone else want to report on their plantings?

next year i will try the Zuni Waffle Method from the above link.

Rather than printing it out like i did, you can call their 800 number & request a free publication called Companion Planting it includes three sisters, three methods. also request intro packet,, this is a gov't sponsored site, so get your tax dollars worth!

After reading about the three sisters we decided to give it a try. My kids are studying Colonial America and Native Americans. I thought that might be a good time to learn about planting the three sisters. We planted it....oh, I don't remember when, end of August beginning of September??

So far it looks really good. We planted corn, kentucky pole beans and sugar baby pumpkins. My attempts at corn this year have been a mixed sucess. It grew fabulous but was devoured by funky caterpillars. I tried the mineral oil trick and am using some garden and veggie bug spray. Organic is hard!! I have even more respect for organic farmers than I did before!!

Anyway, here's a picture.
Laura

that's a beautiful looking raised bed! what kindo f corn did you plant?

here is food for thought: 100 years or so ago, all farming/gardening was organic!!!

not easy, but it can be done.

look for some threads about corn. experts here have said which ones have a tighter husk and therefore more resistant to certain worms. are you sure they were caterpillars?

also which ones get taller, shorter, etc, which i found is important in matching beans with corn... [i.e. trellis height]

congrats on a great project, can't wait to see more photos...

I don't remember what I planted, bad I know! I will have to see if I can find the seed packet. It is tall and the beans are growing up to the top of it!

It is corn earworms. Here is a picture I found. They are icky! Not only do they munch, they seem to leave behind wormy poop or something.

Laura

i have found that they don't eat much. planting sunflowers with [or near] my corn attracts the assasin bugs that eat the moths that lay these eggs. mineral oil works, but only when applied at the right time [should have worked for you].

we barely got corn from our next-to-last crop [the last crop i just let go]. when i picked them, i took them to the guinea cage to open them up, and gave the worms to them LOL. they even ate the worm "castings" must be good corn! :-P

if you get them early enough, they can't eat much. some ears though had four or five baby worms starting out! they get darker in color and bigger the longer they eat your corn!

if you do decide to do anothe veggie bed next year, try these: bush beans, marigolds, and small potatoes! i promise very few bugs can get past that grouping heehee

tf

who is planning on doing this in 2006? lots of great info in this thread!

tf

Thanks for bumping it up for me Tamara! You are wonderful!
Debbie

We hope to. Just before they found my tumor I had bought a Three Sisters Garden Package from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange to do a fall planting, but I'm hoping my husband will plant it for spring. I'm sure experienced gardeners wouldn't feel the need to buy a "package", but for me it seemed a simple way to get started since I've never done it before. The package comes with enough corn, bean and squash seeds to plant a 25 food circle. Thanks for reminding me Tamara. Margaret

I'm definitely going to try this just to carry on the tradition. I also hear it cuts back on the weeding if you plant enough squash. I'm for anything that reduces weeding! I wonder if it makes any difference if it is summer or winter squash?
Debbie

that would depend on whether you plant long or short season corn, and when you plant it. there is a recommendation onn how many days between planting the three. corn firts, then beans, squash last. if you do summer squash make sure it is not the bush type.

other melons work too, like watermelons, pumpkins, etc.

just customize it to suit you, or to suit when you can plant.

make sure to check out the info at the attra link above. if you don't want to preint it out, you can call their 800 number and get ANY of their publications mailed to you FREE of charge. our tax dollars at work LOL

good luck. keep us posted.

tf

I just read a book that said the Delawares dug a big hole, buried the fish, mounded the dirt back up and planted 3 seeds of corn and the squash at the same time. Came back later and planted to beans. Now that's in Northern US I'm quite certain.

sounds about right. in the more arid climates, they recess the ground instead of mounding, to hold moisture in, instead of causing it to run off [purpose of the mound]

I guess you can't do this in a raised bed hun?

why not Bronx? I do everything in raised beds!

I see a bumper sticker in this...

Zeppy, oh, dear ;-P

Hello and welcome to DG, BronxBoy!

yes, of course it can be done in a raised bed, as long as it gets enough moisture. i can even see it done in a square foot bed! if i do it this year, that may be how!

because of our lack of rain, i sorta block mine in with some lumber, then mulch it heavily.

dmj, did you get the publication i suggested? it is FREE (well, you already paid for it with your tac dollars LOL), and it give the three very DIFFERENT ways of planting the three sisters. it also gives the original story of where the name came from.

when everyone gets theirs planted, might i suggest a Three Sisters Two thread to show off all the pictures [esp the raised beds!]

tf

Thanks TF.

I reread the thread and saw where someone planted the thress sisters in a rasied bed. Definitely on my to do list for this year.

Can the squash be replaced with melon plants?

oh, yes! melon,, squash or pumpkin all work well, just importatn that they vine, not bush!

Thanks TF:

I guess the timing of the plantings is pretty important here.

yes. try to select culitvars that will stagger out the maturity. you can't have it all ready at once... esp not all blooming at once, as they would be hogging the water and soil nutrients from each other. in a raised bed with good soil and extra natural nutrients added, that won't be as much a problem. if you use synthetic fertilizer, then it could throw things off, you would have to reapply a lot.

if the days to maturity are the same, then you stagger them out 2 weeks to a month apart.

if th days are different, you could plant them much closer together, even at the same time, or 10 days apart.

try planting under good moon signs as well. i have a feeling, with all this weird weather, we need as many cards in our favor as possible, so working with the flow of nature could be an extra benefit!

also, look for the thread that talks aobut the remedy for preventing those mildew diseases that happen with squash, melons, and pumpkins. it really works!

tf

Thanks TF:

I'll look for the mildew thread.

But I really got to search for moon signs. I learned a lot of things in NYC but moon signs weren't one of them.

In fact, at a certain age: if the moon was out and I was out, I had a real problem when I got home. LOL

BB

TamaraFaye what kind of yield did you get from your 3 sisters last year ? Did it produce well? I'm thinking of doing this but have heard mixed opinions about it. Sounds like yours did well though ?

in the first planting, i planted my beans too late, and all the winter squash i set out were attacked by bugs and then drought, but the watermelons in the same place [other row], did very well indeed!. the early corn did great!

then in my second planting, it was too late for beans, the muskmelon was looking great, but some critter kept coming to eat them while they were small. i caged one, an looked forward to eating it. then i had surgery and it rotted ;-( the second corn did very well, though, despite the heat, drought, and neglect LOL

my seven year old wants his own three sisters planting this year. haven't decided which melon yet though

the first year i did corn with pole beans, it was an afterthought, and after the corn was done, the beans really took over, hmmmmmm....

this may have been how i came to the conclusion that early corn with late squash was not a good match. so if i plant early corn, i will do an early melon with it. hey, no big deal here if the beans don't grow, i am the only one who likes them fresh from the garden!

3-Sisters To Detoxify Native Lands

Hello all ! My Traditional Medicine Class in Toronto ON has decided to seriously look into detoxifying the Native Land on a reserve here in Ontario that is polluted and toxic 4-5 feet down from the soil surface. I mean this land is inhabitable. Deemed unsafe to live on........however; it is assigned reservation land and the population living there has little or no choice.
We have discussed planting 3-Sisters plants on this land to extract the toxins from it.......it can be done. It will take several years to clean the soil up but yes, it can be done.
We will need to plant "non edible" beans, corn and squashes so that no person, animal or bird is poisoned by them. They will leach the toxins out of the soil and carry it within the plants themselves.

The obvious corn of choice would be an ornamental type corn that would not be eaten. We can plant gourd or ornamental type squash plants and what I am wondering is if anyone knows of or has seeds for a non-edible bean?

Please, any and all suggestions for this project would be appreciated and considered. We are a tiny group of volunteers without funds and will have to do this on a shoestring.

And no, we will not seek government financial support or assistance for this program. Obviously the reservation has little or no funds either. Its an extremely poor community that lacks money, housing and even clean soil, air and water to draw from.

Again, any ideas or suggestions would be more than welcome.

All the best to each of you.
Chi Miigwetch (Thank you very much)

AprilHillside....first, a hearty WELCOME TO DG!
Come on in, make yourself at home!

My first thoughts to your quandary are to utilize plants like Sunflower, mustard, fast-growing trees (Poplar?). These, and other plants, are now being used in "phytoremediation" programs.

"And no, we will not seek government financial support or assistance for this program."

Why not? I bet the gov had a hand in polluting the land; perhaps you can at least get monies for seeds/research?

As for an inedible bean, what immediately comes to mind is "Jack Bean" (Canavalia). Although it is sometimes eaten (if boiled enough times) by humans it is mainly grown as a green manure crop in certain countries. (It is also eaten by certain communties but 'tis the plant itself and not the bean that is eaten. However, on your reservation, I would think that putting the word out to not eat it would be in everyones best interest). "Jack Bean" grows much bigger than most bean plants so would possibly be a good crop for you...however, I'm not the least familiar with your growing season and temperatures to firmly say.

Again...welcome to DG! And if you will, please tell us more about how we can help.

Shoe.

Hello AprilHillside! Welcome to DG!

I have a few questions about your project. Do the plants have to be just the Three Sisters, or be native to North America and/or traditionally used by native people? What do you do with the plants afterward? What's growing there now?

I can think of a few plants that would help detoxify the soil, but they're mostly "weeds" that you wouldn't want to introduce without a lot of consideration!

BTW: I would love it if someone around here taught traditional medicine. I have several books on the subject, but I wouldn't even consider trying anything without the guidance of an experienced practitioner. My mother's side of the family is of Acadian/Mi' Kmaq descent, and my grandmother was a skilled herbal practitioner, but, alas, I didn't become interested in it until after she had passed away, and my mom and her sisters didn't pick up any of it. : (

Good luck with your project!

Rhonda

yep, mustards are great fungicides! the first non-edible bean i thought of was castor beans, but they don't climb

have you considered how you will dispose of the non-edible plants?

tf

Miigwetch! Miigwetch! Miigwetch!

To each of you for the warm welcome back to DG. I have missed this place. Life just got too busy. Not enough hours in the day !

Thank you Horseshoe for your insight and suggestions. The Jac Bean sounds very promising. As for the inedidibility of the plants.......its not just for humans that we must be concerned....it is for the animals and birds that might try to feed off them. Heck, they havent seen plant life there in so long they might yell "Wow, party!!" and feast on these plants. I would hope they would know but its not worth the risk. These plantings definately must be "inedible"

Waves to Emaewest for your questions. These plants dont have to be Traditional Native plants but the Three Sisters are significant to our culture and as they are sturdy strong stocked plants in themselves I believe they would be ideal.
Ornamental corn, Ornamental squash and Ornamental or medicinal beans (I would consider Jack beans medicinal if they are used as fertilizer in the soil) would be both practical and representative of our culture. So, if at all possible I would like to stick with that theme.

What a wonderful thing for your ancestors to have been Medicine Herbalists. I would say with some confidence that you would also have an affnity for the herbs yourself Rhonda. These "talents" are not randomly chosen. They are in the blood or "genes". If you have any inclination at all towards learning about the herbs and their healing properties I would encourage you to learn all that you can. If you like? I will ask my teacher if he knows any other herbalists in your area that might guide you? Just let me know in an email where you are and let me ask ok?

Our teacher is Mik Maq also and he is from the East coast ! He works in Toronto as an herbalist, speaks at conferences and is consulted by drug companys, doctors who are perplexed by specific cases and treats individuals. He knows his stuff and is very very passionate and knowledgable about it. He teaches us without charge so that it will have a 'ripling' affect amongst all people. As you know, our medicines cannot be sold......they are given. Even when the 4 Sacred Medicines are exchanged for money in our centres .....the money is a 'donation' to the organization that it is from. A donation to that centre or group. We cannot 'sell' it.

TamaraFaye: Thank you for the insight into the mustards and castor beans. Perhaps we could include them too. Esp. if the ground was surrounded with the Three Sisters and the squash vines and leaves discouraged critters from entering the field? The mustard and castor beans could perhaps be planted inside the perimeter?

Disposal of the plant material is something to ponder. I would like to add some of it to a worm composter, just to see the affect it has? I think that would be indicative of what those plants actually contain. I wonder too if the worms would have a way of disgesting those toxins in small amounts and processing it out of their bodies in the way of clean castings? I guess its possible?

If nothing else, I think we will have to build giant composters to dispose of the plant matter and let it at least break down into something smaller to deal with. Again, if it was mixed with non-toxic materials, brought in from elsewhere, it might just neutralize it? or at least "water it down" somewhat? I hope that would be the case. It will take some research for sure.

I hope that some soil specialists might want to participate on their own, even if its out of interest or for educational purposes. We will see.

As for govt funding or approval, interaction.......not a chance. Yes Shoe, the govt definately had the biggest hand in responsibility for the toxic condition of that part of Mother Earth but we will not seek their assistance or funding. This is Natives helping Natives. The govt has done enough damage and it is no accident that this place is toxic.

Shoe, in your country, your govt. did its best to wipe out native people blatantly. In Canada it was thru "Assimilation" and our govt was less "open and honest" about eradicating my people. We were constantly moved from one "Reserve" to another whenever it was discovered that there were minerals or some other purpose of that land was attractive.

Much of our "reserved" land is nothing but rock and of little or no use to grow anything on or of any use other than to squat on. Waterways are polluted with toxic wastes, forests are taken down to stubble and as we all know that annialates the wildlife, plants......esp. the medicines and all life. Our people have no say in any of these things but must live with the consequences of the disastrous actions of 'others'.

Drawing up proposals for govt assistance would sit in the red tape file for years and never be addressed. There would be no action on the govts part. And besides, there is extreme principle (principal?) - never could get those two straight.

There is something gently powerful about our own people helping each other and that would include mainstream folks who would want to lend a hand. Their participation would never be unwelcomed. We only wish to right what is wrong so that the Anishnawbe that must live on that deemed land may do so without poisoning themselves with every breath they take and every drink that they consume. More than this............these conditions poison their "Spirit". It is our way to share all that we have and all that we are.

Our Medicine Wheel is of the 4 Sacred Colours - red, yellow, black and white. This represents all people. All children are sacred bundles. All life on this earth is sacred.

This website is filled with people from all walks of life, from all over Turtle Island that feel the Spirit of the land and its contents and life force. Mother Earth speaks to each of you. You share your knowledge, your advice and your seeds with one another so freely. That is our way also. You are the lucky ones and the blessed. Ahau

Forgive me for ranting. I dont mean to. But, I do hope it gives you some insight into what we are trying to accomplish to heal Mother Earth and a small number of our people. This healing goes way beyond the soil.

Bless you all for your kindness and response and please feel free to ask questions or make suggestions of any sort. They are most welcome.

.



As

april

You are quite welcome. Now that i have a few spare minutes on DG to think about your plan, i am wondering if you have considered starting with some wild plants [not necessarily native], AKA weeds. Wonderful studies have been done on why weeds grow certain places, and how they imporve the soil. For instance, Russian Thistle, or Tumbleweeds, tend to grow where there is too much salt in the soil. They actually absorb thw salt,a nd CONVERT it. Here for instance, they absorbed potassium sulfate, and once i mulched them, they returned potassium to the soil. Weeds, or wild plants, can tell us what is IN the soil, and what the soil LACKS, just by seeing what is growing there. Then you can use the weed to improve the soil. Your soil could be so awful, that no culitvated plant [like three sisters] will be able to grow to maturity. Just a thought. I can recommend some books on the subject. Also, they recliamed tons of acres of salt ridden farmland in Colorado by using the Russian Thistle and Aqua-Nu, which is hard to explain. Maybe you can google and find the study.

Growing something which has the ability to absorb toxins and convert them, then replace vital nutrients that are lacking, would solve the problem of animals eating toxic plants and of how to dispose of them.

best wishes,
tamara