Propagation techniques?

OK, go-vols: Believe it or not, I think I'm getting it. If I come up with some technique that works well for certain types of plants, I'll enter it here. I think it is tempting to enter these tidbits directly to the plant database because it is instant gratification. Here we will be contributors to a work in progress! If I still don't get it, send me some estrogen, and when the brain cells start firing properly, I'll get back to you...lord, you're a patient person!..WZ

Weezingreens, you hit the nail right on the head! Give the girl a prize!!!! (I think I must be the world's worst person to explain the goal of this project, but by golly you got it exactly right.)

And you'll still get that rush of instant gratification once we get the new features added to the Plants Database. And it'll go much faster, so you can do wayyy more entries in the same amount of time, which will give you even greater satisfaction :)

And my favorites - stem cuttings & division.

Stem Cuttings: Take a cutting of a healthy stem that's not flowering. Strip off the leaves on the bottom section (roots will grow from those spots on some plants), leaving 2-4 (I think) leaves on top. Place the stem in water, or dip the stem in rooting hormone & plant in the appropriate soil.

Potted Plant Division: Take the plant out of the pot and carefully loosen enough soil from the roots to separate the section(s) to divide. If necessary, use a SHARP knife to break the section.

An observation from a new gardener:

I love learning about the different propagation methods. I've learned a lot about them from this thread. What I'm still wondering though, is which plants or seeds want what propagation method? I know this is pretty basic for most of you, but I am still learning, and would love to know which plants do best with certain methods. Is this too basic? I'd like to be able to look it up as, for example, "I have this plant, or these seeds, and I want to make more of them" "Which method will give me the best chance of success for this particular plant or seeds."

After re-reading this, I think it will only make sense to me, but if you are able to decipher it, please let me know if I'm way off base here. Is this what you are working on?

Right now, I'm trying to figure out what seeds I can plant in a flat and put outside, knowing that they will freeze solid, thaw, and freeze solid again, but still produce plants in the spring. LOL! DH built me a growlight system, but I am quickly realizing that there's not as much room under there as I originally thought there would be, so....I'm taking STRATIFICATION 101. If I can plant them outside, I'm going to do that and save the lights for the ones that need it.

So, to get back on tract...sorry to wander....but, is this the type of thing you are working on?

Joan

In answer to your question which is the best propagation method for individual plants, I say its the one which works best for you.

You know the old saying 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket', well, its very true as far as this topic is concerned. First off, if I aquire seeds that I haven't yet grown I look through my books and the internet (and of course you can post here) to see what is suggested by the professionals and people who have already grown the plant. Very often you will come across a number of methods for each plant, all of which have been successful for someone.

Knowing something the plants you want to grow from seed is an important part of the process. As a rule of thumb, anything which is native or from a similar area and climate can be sown and grown outside.

TRENCH CUTTINGS. Useful when many plants are needed for a hedge etc!

Take cuttings in late summer as soon as the new shoots have become woody. However, it will be less damaging for the parent plant if you take the cutting on a frost-free winter day and also gives you more time. You can also take hardwood cuttings from the material left over after you have given shrubs their winter pruning. This can be less time-consuming in the long run. If cuttings are taken in late summer the little branches must be rooted and taken care of immediately. However, if you take cuttings during winter, you cannot finally plant them until spring. Until then, they must be heeled in (roughly planted) to keep them alive!! Three-quarter-ripe shoots that have been developed during spring are the most suitable to use for hardwood cuttings. They are easy to recognize by their semi-mature state. The older, darker shoots are too woody and are more difficult to root. Only the fast-growing poplars and willows can make roots from old wood. Each cutting should be approx 20cm long (which is the length of an ordinary pair of secateurs) and should have either four of five buds. To make sure you do not put the cuttings into the ground upside-down, cut them off straight at the top just above a bud and angle them at the bottom, just under the bud. This angled end is also easier to push into the ground than a straight cut. Always make the cut so that it is immediately above an'eye' or bud. Cuttings without eyes are useless - they will simply wither! Make a trench in the soil by putting a spade into the ground (spade depth) along a taut piece of string and wiggle it back and forth until you have a trench. Put the cuttings in the ground (trench) plaing them 10cm apart and backfill with soil. Only the top 'eye' should peep out - the others should make roots. After a few weeks, the first leaves will start to show. You can now lift them and plant in their permanent position or plant in pots for future planting.

Rooting indoors

You can start the rooting process during winter. Window boxes are ideal for this. Fill them with a mixture of equal parts of garen soil and sand. Place the cuttings into the soil at a distacne of 2-3cm apart and plant them so that only the top 'eye' is visible above the soil. Place the window boxes in a warm and light location and keep the soil most but avoid over-watering. When the cuttings produce their first leaves after a few weeks lift and separate them carefully and plant in pots in the spring.

Cuttings in water

Place the cuttings in water (a jam jar for instance) but remove them as soon as the roots have formed otherwise they will rot!



This message was edited Friday, Feb 15th 6:50 AM

This message was edited Friday, Feb 15th 11:12 AM

Joan your question makes perfect sense. When we get this done, you will be able to look up a plant and see which methods are recommended for propagating it. This is the first step - collecting all the methods.

The second step will take a while, as our members go through the database and designate propagation method(s) for each plant.

Surface Planting Seeds Indoors:

When seeds require light to germinate, packet instructions will indicate "surface planting", sowing the seed on a seed starting medium, then pressing them into the surface without covering them. This is my method:

1. Prepare Containers: Wash containers in hot soapy bleach water, rinse, and drain.

2. Prepare Medium: Sterilized seed starter is available at most garden centers. It is designed for germinating seed. Once opened, be sure to reclose the bag if you have left-overs to avoid contamination. Add the needed amount of sterilized seed starting medium to a clean large container, then add clean water, toss as a salad, then let it sit a few moments to become evenly moist. The mixture should have the consistancy of cake (baked, not batter). Do not get too moist. When the proper consistancy, place in the dry clean containers you have prepared. Shake lightly to level the medium, then press down lightly with the bottom of another clean container of the same size. Mist the surface lightly with warm water. Now you are ready to plant.

3. Planting the Seeds: If the seed is fine, I mix it with a small amount of washed, sterilized sand to disperse the seed evenly in the container and to secure the seed in place during germination. I do not press the seeds down, but rather mist the surface again, taking care not to spray too closely which could wash the seed/sand mixture away.

4. Germination: I highly recommend purchasing plant flats with domed lids for indoor germination. They are available as sets, with the cell packs included at most places that sell planting supplies. I place the container of sown seed into the flat, cover with the domed clear lid, and place under fluorescent lights that are placed about 2" above the dome top. Be sure to label the sown container so that you know when to expect germination and what will be coming up.

5. Care: During the waiting period, keep moisture within the domed flat by misting the inside of the dome lid and letting the moisture "rain" onto the containers. I do not bottom water since it encourages the seeds to rot rather than germinate. As long as the dome lid looks misty, there is probably enough moisture for the seeds.

6. After germination:Once the new plants start to come up, you must take note as to whether they anchoring themselves into the surface or not. If not, you can add some vermiculite to the surface. Keep the seedlings under light, and leave the domes on the flats.

7. Care: To minimize misting, I leave the dome lid on as long as possible, but as the seedlings grow the lid should be gradually eliminated to accommodate their height and to get them used to the new environment. You can begin venting the dome lid by setting it askew or propping one end up.

Feeding: The first round leaves that emerge from the seeds are cotyleydon. These feed the seedlings until true leaves develop. Since the medium you planted in is "sterile", the seedlings will probably need fertiizer once they have attained some size, This can be added to the water once the plants are mature enough to water from the bottom, rather than misting.

Note: If you have a window ledge with adequate sun, the
fluoescent light might not be necessary, but generally, window light is not intense enough to keep the seedlings from becoming leggy.

Note: Failure to use sterilized medium or to clean all containers can result in "dampening off", that disheartening event that occurs when your beautiful new seedlings start rotting off at the stem and falling like fallen trees.

...I love this...it's like have a library right in front of me!! Keep 'em coming!

"eyes"

Hey this could be a book. The title,'All you ever wanted to know about propagation and then some'. This is great. I just saved it to my favorites so I can check back from time to time and see what else someone has posted that I didn't know or if I did know I had forgotten.LOL

I just joined Dave's Garden and saw your thread. I don't want this to appear to be a commercial, but it does pertain to the information that you are trying to put together. I thought you might be interested in a new product that we recently introduced for seed germination and planting, The Sowing Kit. The idea is similar in concept to the paper towel method except an agar based gel is used instead of the paper towel. Gelatin "rots", agar doesn't. The seeds are germinated on the surface of the gel in small cups: easy to handle, translucent for light requiring seeds, transparent top so seeds can be seen without disturbing them. By providing ideal germination conditions, essentially all the viable seeds will germinate, and quickly. Lettuce is ready to plant in 24 hours. When the radicles emerge, the pre-germinated seeds are mixed with the gel. Then, with the correct sized seeder in the kit, they can be easily picked up one-at-a-time and deposited exactly where they are wanted. This helps to avoid damping off due to overcrowding and almost eliminates the need to thin out seedlings. It works especially well with small seeds like portulaca, petunia, verbascum etc. which are difficult to singulate any other way. The gel can also be used to make seed tapes, using two-ply toilet tissue as the "carrier". A fun project for young gardeners.
All the information about the product is on our website at www.gardennova.com. If you would like to use the information, please go ahead. If there are any questions about it, you can email me directly at royce@snip.net

go_Vols: Just read an entry by Ravenbuck in the Garden Talk forum that includes "How to Winter Sow Seeds Outdoors". It is apparently an ammended and expanded version of an earlier entry. It is in a thread called "I Want to Plant Seeds Outside". Maybe you've already seen this, but I thought it pertained to our search for standardized propagation techniques...WZ...gotta learn how to hyperlink from one bed to the next in Dave's Garden.

that can't be entered into the database though, it's a copy of someone elses post on another forum. great info though

Couldn't one ask??...WZ

I know this is an old thread. . . but I was curious if this idea ever got off of its feet or if it is still in the works. I think it is a fantastic idea -- if it is not underway it might be worth looking at again - especially in the winter months.

AAAAACKKKK! It's back! It is a fantastic idea. And Wingnut has sent me some stuff, which is waiting patiently in my email inbox.

I have about five MAJOR (large, time-consuming) to-do's on my list, and this is one of them.

As soon as I get the first two knocked out, this one is third in line :)

An interesting side note about the "technique that cannot be mentioned by name" - I have a copy of a book called "Bluebells and Bittersweet" (I think that's the name), written in 1969, describing - in great detail - this very technique to successfully propagate wildflowers and native plants and trees. I guess everything old does become new again, huh?

Oh, Go_Vols, I know we've had this on the back burner for quite awhile, and we've just opened the door to your anxiety closet! I, for one, am offering my services in any way I can help when you do begin propagation techniques.

I can see that I was a newbie in Dave's Garden when I last posted to this thread. I also recall that I was sorry to see the detailed propagation techniques removed when the PDB got a face-lift. We also lost the references to the journal entries that offered additional data. The drop downs to not address the options in detail nor refer to where the information can be found within Dave's Garden.

I cannot recall if we discussed how the propagation methods would be offered... wasn't it a code that linked to a Propagation Database within Dave's? That is the way I have seen it done on other sites, and it seemed sensible.

I think we were supposed to be adding methods here on this thread to use at a later date, but meanwhile the existing info is not being used. Could we take some of the information included in this thread and post on a new thread within the Frequently Asked Questions Forum. That way this thread would be here to collect more info, not closed.

And along with all this; how does one decide what kind of
bulbs to buy to do the "grow light" thing to help the
wintered over plants in garage?

Yes, that's another whole topic! In that case, you are wintering over existing plants. Some need dormancy, some don't. Some need watering, some need to dry out. Actually, I think that is an easier topic, since indoor temps really don't vary that much, as a rule. It isn't even an issue for some of the folks who live in warm weather all year long.

I'm inclined to think Dave's Garden could use a special forum for Northern Gardening. I hesitate to say that, since there are many, many forums available as it is. I've visited the Canadian forum, but that is basically about seed trading. I can find some growing similarity in the European Forum, but still not quite the same. Well, maybe one of these days, I'll see how many folks we have who live in cooler climes, then make a pitch to Dave.

Oh, it just occurred to me that your question about bulbs was not retorical, TwinLakesChef! First of all, I'm assuming you are referring to the type of light bulbs, rather than plant bulbs. In that case, I can tell you that I have wintered over plants under lights quite successfully in my basement by using regular fluorescent coolwhite bulbs... 40wt, I believe.

Grow light bulbs may have a better effect, but they are quite expensive. I stopped wintering over most of my plants because they always brought aphids into the house, and in turn, they infested the seedlings I started in the spring under lights.

I'm for a Northern gardening forum Weez! Make the pitch!! ;)

I always hesitate to come up with more work for Dave & the clan, but I'm sure I'd get some use out of it. Maybe I should post a thread to see if there is interest... should I make my pitch first?

Finding that Northern gardeners are in the minority here. And why not; it is so much more work to garden here. We are crazy for trying. ;) You Southerners are so lucky to have the job of hacking back plants that we beg to grow up North. Think we DO need some help!
a

LOL, TwinLakesChef! Sometimes I feel a bit foolish when I post a picture of some flower I've been nurturing along for a couple years, and the response from our Southern gardeners is "That thing self-seeds like crazy! I'm pulling it out of the cracks in my sidewalk!"

I guess, as northern gardeners, our claim to fame is that we can grow lots of plants that wilt in the warmer climes. Of course, you get hot summers, I'm sure, but our temps here in Seward, Alaska seldom get up above 70 degrees, and if it does, we all put on shorts and tank tops. All that white skin is really scary!

The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side of the fence or Mason-Dixon line, as the case may be :)

I must confess I have no desire to live any farther north than my zone 6b/7a right here in middle Tennessee. On the other hand, I have little desire to live much farther south, either. Year-round gardening would wear me smooth out. Right here, we get enough cold that I can have lilacs, peonies, and tulips, but our gardening season starts in March and doesn't let up until November. (You can take that as bragging or complaining - it all depends on the day I've had!)

We've had several newer members from the north join us recently, so it appears y'all are gaining on us ;0)

Now, I could live with a season like that, Go_Vols, but I have to factor in the summer heat! One of the really nice things about my climate is that it seldom gets hot. If you were to visit, it would probably seem cold all summer! I was raised in the midwest, so I recall hot summers... and humidity! I miss the fresh cukes and tomatoes, but I don't miss that!

It always a pleasure to visit with folks on Dave's, no matter where they hail from, and it stands to reason that many of the established members come from the southern states. I've noticed that one of the most frequented forums is the for Brugs, and I'm not even sure what they are! I've seen photos and I've read a bit about them since I've joined, but they are out of my zoning! They wouldn't even like my summers!

I'm glad to see some northern gardeners join us here in the Garden, and a special forum would be nice, but I still want to visit with folks that can grow cucumbers in a patch of dirt in their back yard!

Weez - you need to try Brugmansia sanguinea. It's the red one. They can't grow it in the south because the summers are too hot ... it hates heat and humidity. Your summers are perfect. You'd have to bring it inside for the winter but if you kept it in container it wouldn't be too much work. I bet you'd have the only one in Alaska ;)

I'll put in my vote for that northern gardeners forum - I haven't been here at DG much recently because I have put my garden to bed and have too many other projects going to think about it :).
But I would be very interested in what other gardeners do in the winter when they live someplace where things don't grow outside at this time of the year.
I currently garden zone 4, I have never gardened warmer than zone 5, and my first garden was in zone 2, so I haven't got a clue what it must be like to have a 6/7 garden like Go-Vols!

Anyway, just my two cents,
Cedar

I've been mulling this over since the thread has taken a different turn. (which is okay - good things can come of hijacked threads ;)

What if, instead of regional gardening forums, we create one for winter gardening? It would be a broader audience since some of us experience more moderate and shorter winter weather, but we all have certain challenges that come in the "off-season"...

go_vols,

PROPAGATION
Started a new thread with data you have elicited from people here and there is quite a lot. If people will add to that one thread with just data and no chitchat it would be very helpful to us new gardeners.

Still like the idea of Plantology!

WINTER GARDENING FORUM
- fine idea -is it definitive enough? Gardeners from ALL zones do some kind of "Winter Gardening" - if no more than browsing the seed catalogs. Northern gardeners have a different type of challenge. Imagine going to the forum and finding a Southerner discussing if the plants need a "little sweater" tonight when THIS Northerner is thinking a "down lined parka" wouldn't even help?!

Sorry!

Second the sorry!

Why is everyone apologizing?

"hijacked" the Propagation Techniques over to Winter Sowing and a possible Winter Gardening Forum.
Bad manners on our part :) but we're trying to behave, Dave! Go_Vols deserves our cooperation. Was very gracious about it, though.

Well, I was wondering the same thing, but got sidetracked before I could ask. Don't worry about the hijacking on my account. I think the conversation has taken an interesting turn...

Well, it's one thing to hijack someone's thread about a tooth ache they had this morning, and another thing hijacking a thread that has serious intent or historic value! If someone resurrects a thread called propagation techniques, I don't suppose they want to hear about the woes of northern gardening! I'm a real troublemaker when it comes to getting off the subject!... that was why I apologized.