Dahlias: Looking forward to spring - Part I

Just came back to the forum after several days of doing other stuff. I found the discussion about SI and soil for the garden interesting. I'll add just a few comments.
On Swan Island and storing. I watched a video where they were driving a tractor across the field in April. Two or three people sat on a low platform behind the tractor and placed tubers on the ground as the tractor moved along. They each planted a row. Just after the tubers were put down, two large plow blades came along on each side of the tubers and pushed dirt onto the tubers. Instead of digging to plant, they mound dirt upon the tubers.For digging, I think they use a large scoop-type blade pulled behind a tractor to cut under the clumps in Nov. . The clumps fall onto a platform where workers shake the dirt off and place them in boxes. Somewhat similar to mechanized digging of potatoes. On one of my visits to Connells dahlias in Tacoma,WA I saw a large scoop blade-type device and was told they tried to use it but gave up because it was too cumbersome. Their planting area was too small for using a tractor and the big scoop.

I was at Connells in Feb last year to pick up my tubers and was surprised to see that they were just stored in wooden boxes, (like very large show box) and lightly covered with cedar shavings. The building was like a ten car garage and unheated. Apparently, the winter temp and humidity level were just right for storage. No time consuming, large scale storage with medium, etc. Over the years I have concluded that a variety of methods are used to adjust for temp and humidity to avoid dessication or rot from mold/disease. Each of us does what works.

On soil I've learned interesting things. Avoid too much manure. Dahlias don't do as well in high nitrogen. If you do add bark, sawdust, leaves, etc to enrich and loosen the soil you need to add nitrogen to assist the composting and replace what the bark stuff takes away from the plants. Three years ago, I brought in some topsoil from the local landscape center with the hope of even better production. Things were worse. I tested the soil and discovered that it was pretty much devoid of important nutrients. Their combination of sand, bark, horse manure, etc. was nutrient poor. Since then, I used the Gardner & Bloom organic fertilizer and seen very good results. I buy it in 20 LB bags and spread it on the dahlia area. I now do more testing before adding stuff. My testing has also revealed that it is possible for we backyard gardeners to wind up with poor soil if we don't continually replenish the nutrients the plants take in each season. Farmers in America have a long history of depleted soil and the importance of replenishing.

All very interesting and all useful information. According to one article I read, dahlias perform worse when we, the gardeners, keep feeding them. Nice to hear that "lazy" wins one now and then. I only feed the day they get planted. Then they're on their own. I haven't yet used any of our bins of compost but I'll work it into the soil very well when I do it.

I had hoped that adding mulch, ground up garden detritus (from flowers and vegies) would replenish sufficiently. Maybe not. Every spring I promise myself to take samples to the local community extension service for testing. Maybe next year I will make it. I now volunteer at the botanical garden (in the office, not in the garden) so that might spur me on to better gardening practices.

Interesting about the planting of the dahlias. I end up putting mine in pots since they are trying to grow in late March. Actually some are continuing to try to grow in pitch black storage. I pinch them off.

I've never had my soil tested either, Mary, so you're not alone.

Happy Anniversary!

Thanks. Should be a busy day. My DIL requested my pumpkin cookies and grandson Brendan requested my garlic rolls. We should get a call from Laura and Frank in a few hours to be picked up. We are going to James' house for noshes and games tonight. I am beginning to crave a day of rest already. To many days of furious work and prep.

'Tis the season!

That's a very interesting read, Alan. I've had a little experience with pine bark mulch. I had my soil tested one year and my PH was high. I decided to mulch my vegetable garden to cut down on weed growth and maybe bring the PH level down a little. The green beans were already blooming when I added the pine bark. I picked the first ones and by the time the second batch was ready to be picked, the leaves were turning almost white and started falling off. It seemed funny picking beans with no leaves. I asked someone and was told the acidic pine bark had depleted the nitrogen in the ground. I raked off as much as I could, fertilized again and replanted. The second crop grew great but just as they bloomed the deer moved in and ate them to the ground. The more acidic loving plants would probably be okay with the pine bark. But I learned a lesson about using it in my vegetable garden.

Did Connells have the shavings between layers of tubers or just have the shavings on top of the whole pile?

LOL Had the same deer experience with my beans. Had planned on picking them the next morning. The next morning they were all neatly cropped at ground level. I use Green Shield now. The only trouble I have had since Green Shield is the neighbors dog likes it.

I've never found many deterrents that will keep the deer away more than about three days. After they get used to one thing I have to find something else. When I replanted the beans I mentioned earlier, I had five or six 25' long rows. They had just started to bloom and were really looking good. I didn't check for a few days and when I did I couldn't believe the &$%#(!!#@! deer had eaten 99% of them. That vegetable garden is now a dahlia garden.

Someone recently asked me why the deer kill was down as much as 50- 75% in some areas of Ohio and Pennsylvania this past hunting season. I told them the answer is simple. They've all moved into the city where the eats are better. Why settle for acorns and twigs out in the woods when there's vegetables, lilies, roses and tulips in the city.

...and people who believe it's being kind to feed them! They get me crazier than the deer.

Connell's placed the cedar shavings (unprocessed/fresh/like from a mill) at the top of the box, kinda like a blanket. He mentioned that cedar works better than other types (e.g. alder or fir). The shavings tend to make a mat at the top and don't draw moisture out of the tubers. I tried several wood-based products (sawdust, wood chips) that were being sold as pet bedding and found that all of them drew the moisture out of the tubers. The trick is to find wood shavings from a saw mill that still have some of their own moisture. The tubers sit next to each other in the box and keep a consistent moisture level as a group, kinds symbiotic. The same tubers sitting alone would soon dry up. It was easy for him to just lift the thin mat of shavings and reach in to remove a tuber.

The most consistent medium and packing I ever used was vermiculite but was very labor intensive and required lots of space to pack tubers in between layers of vermiculite. I would do the vermiculite if I just had 100 or so tubers. With around 2500 tubers, I'm looking for the most efficient use of my time and safest way to store. Hence, I just fill up grocery store banana boxes with the tubers (they warm each other and keep consistent moisture level) and store the boxes in a room in my unheated/insulated barn. Temperature is usually from 35-45 degrees. If below freezing temp threatens, I turn a space heater on.

I have learned the hard way that anytime I add stuff to the soil(leaves,bark, shavings from horse arena etc) with the idea of enriching the soil, I must add nitrogen to assist the composting process and prevent the composting from robbing what little bit the dahlias need. The soil testing I did was with the $20 kit that is sold at many garden centers. You get 4 test containers (PH, potash, nitrogen, phosphorus), several vials of testing solution, and a set of directions. I went on-line and order more testing solution when I branched out and tested the soil in other parts of our yard. The test results matched the poor performance I was seeing and the addition of specific nutrients/fertilizers yielded better looking plants.

A good example of plants and their needs is my apple trees. I noticed last summer that the apples on two of my trees had small little lesions/specs on the surface that turned into brown spots inside the apples. The exterior was not a worry but the multitude of brown spots inside the apples really ruined their usefulness. Two fruit tree experts(I'm in a fruit club, too) who came to visit my Dahlia Open House were quick to identify my problem when I asked them about my apples. "BITTER PIT" came out with authoritative declaration. " YOU NEED TO ADD CALCIUM -EITHER SPRAY ON THE LEAVES OR WORK IT INTO THE SOIL", said the experts. You guessed it, I'm adding calcium to the soil during our rainy winter to rid my fruit of the detestable BITTER PIT. What you didn't guess was that the soil around those trees is that same crummy stuff(5 yards) I brought in from the garden center. It was sold as garden soil. I now know that their garden soil is a filler that is nutrient neutral and in dire need of organic matter to feed my plants.

I think I drank too much Pepsi and went off on a rant in this forum. My apologies.

Alan

Hi Alan. I sent my check off today. No need to apologize. All information is useful even for us who only have 30 - 200 dahlias or so. We are forever searching for a better way to store our tubers. So many variants that make one person's dream storage a failure for others. Usually where we store them is so variable, almost more important than the media we use. I checked mine two days ago and had to pitch one or two but they were in bags of several of the same tuber so no loss. At this point I would say it is the most successful storage I have tried.

I've never used one of those soil test kits. Didn't know how accurate they would be or what to do about any tests results I would have gotten anyway. I went to the local extension office of Ohio State University and found they no longer do soil tests. They recommended sending the soil sample to the University of Massachusetts. I went on line and printed the forms and followed the simple directions about gathering the soil samples. The basic tests are $9.00. They send read-out sheets (by mail and e-mail) telling you everything about your soil and what you may need to improve it with suggestions as to chemical fertilizers vs. organics. There is also a lot of complicated stuff that is way over my head. I was a little surprised that three different sections of my property had such different results. I think it's well worth the time and cost.

The next couple days will be very hectic. I'm still wrapping gifts. lol So I'll take this opportunity to wish everyone on the forum a very Merry Christmas. If you travel over the holidays, please be careful.

My son is comming to present me with a new computer so I don't know when I will be back on the DG. I wish every gardner a Marry Christmas and a Happy New year. My God bless you with beutiful bloomes. Etelka

I want wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Happy holidays, Feliz Navidad, or whatever applies to you. We are on count down here for Santa to arrive, so it is going to be a busy day. For those who are traveling, stay safe! And for those who are staying home, enjoy not having to fight the traffic! I am still doing a few last minute things, but that is normal, I work best under pressure!

Hey all you Dahlia aficionados, Merry Christmas!!

Merry Christmas to all! I hope you all have a wonderful day and enjoy the children and good food.

Our gifts are all wrapped and I'm on my way to get that last minute gift because I love that Christmas feeling and I do enjoy seeing the crowds and sharing at the Salvation Army's red kettle.

I am well prepared for Christmas. Sitting and knitting after all the hectic running around. Having a wonderful time with my daughter and Frank (significant other) and expect the rest of the thundering herd tomorrow.

I wish my friends here the very happiest holiday, safe and warm and happy! "See you" in the new year.

Mary

Merry Christmas all my dahlia friends!

And a Merry Christmas to you, Joyce!

I just checked my stored tubers for the first time in almost a month. The results are varied. A few of the ones stored in vermiculite are starting to show signs of shriveling. I will spray the bag with just a bit of water in a couple days. So far there is no sign of any rot at all. The ones stored in just peat moss or a combination of peat/vermiculite or peat/potting soil look very good. Of course these were dug a little later. The clumps I washed and wrapped in newspaper are shriveling. I was surprised to see the clumps I stored unwashed and put in plastic bags look like they just came out of the ground. Could that be because they weren't washed? If that pattern holds I will be collecting a lot of plastic bags to store the UNDIVIDED tubers in next fall. Again, these were dug a couple weeks later than the rest. As usual, several of my favorites look the worst. I wouldn't mind going through a learning process if there was some consistency. But I honestly believe you could store the same way for ten years and get ten different results.

I know we shouldn't beat ourselves to death worrying why or how we have problems growing or storing dahlias. It even happens to the professionals. I was looking at Hollyhills web site and was shocked to see how many varieties were unavailable and listed as "crop failure." If it can happen to the big sellers, we shouldn't blame ourselves when ours don't do well. As I've read many times, some varieties just won't cooperate for one reason or another. I've always had problems storing the Huston "family", Zorro and Otto's Thrill. And that problem continues while I think you could probably throw Hollyhill Six-in-One and Ferncliff Inspiration into the back of a dresser drawer and find them sprouting in the spring. lol

I agree. My Otto's Thrill has only one tuber left and it doesn't look promising. And I have many that look okay but no sign of eyes yet. But I think that some are just like that. Some pop eyes immediately in the fall and others only show eyes in the spring after laid in soil trays and spritzed.

Lagging behind, as usual, and I haven't yet checked any tubers though I did think about it. The weather has been too wonderful to stay inside. Now the asparagus bed has been put to sleep and I can check off more gardens as totally done until they're planted again in spring...even mulched! I continue putting up more deer fencing and they continue taunting me by yanking more and more Louisiana irises from the earth that were just planted a month or so ago. We'll find out if unplanted LA irises can bloom. I do keep returning them and they're getting enough rain but the yanking can't help them grow. I may add bricks to them tomorrow.

I agree, Dan. We could switch methods for saving dahlias and either be thrilled or end up adding to our orders. I've had dahlias (held in plastic bags in the basement) shock me with so much green growth in the past and the window wasn't even close so it has to be the internal clock that gets them moving.

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas! We have a New Year approaching fast!

Everyone is gone except my MIL who leaves in a few hours. As much as I loved the holidays I do look forward to some total quiet with no schedule to keep.

Hey you guys, what's your favorite DEEP purple dahlia less than 6"? I'm looking for this color but haven't been able to find just the right shade of purple.

I looked at Verrone's and am amazed at how many are already sold out.

Have you seen Swan Island's Santa Claus. Gorgeous and already sold out.

I was just looking at Santa Claus on Jung Seeds web site. I was surprised that the description said it was a 6"-8" bloom. I know a couple people who have grown it and both told me theirs were barely 4". I may be adding that one to my list. I've been looking at Pleasant Valleys site and they have quite a few that I have my eye on, including Santa Claus.

Longview Nursery has several types that are already sold out. And as I mentioned before, Hollyhill has a lot listed as "sold" out and "crop failure." I wonder if maybe it was a bad year for bulbs. Every Christmas I give a half dozen or so amaryllis as gifts. I don't bother mail ordering any since I've never had any problem finding them locally .... until this year. I went to four stores and there was not a bulb to be found anywhere. Normally, there are stacks of them. My neighbors daughter said she was told this was a really bad year for amaryllis.

I meant Longfield Nursery not Longview.

Jeff, the only dark purple dahlia I'm even vaguely familiar with is Thomas Edison. I only had it one year and it was planted really late. I got one small bloom. So I can't really comment on the true bloom size. I'm sure others on the forum have a better idea of it's size or that of any other purples.

According to Swan Island, the Thomas Edison is an 8" bloom. I like to keep them smaller, between the 3-6" range. I was looking at 'Boogie Nites' but I'm just not sure about it yet. It's tough because you can't always trust the color on the websites. Sometimes the colors are wildly different than reality.

Our Mid-Atlantic group had an amaryllis group buy this fall from ADR. It was quite successful and the amaryllises were in good shape. One of mine is blooming now.

I think I should have ordered Santa from Swan Island - as I recently learned its hard to get good stock for it these days, and if they have it, it must qualify. What I have seen in the catalog sellers like van Bourgondien and Brecks is they exaggerate on Santa and others, pretending they are larger than they are. In the case of von B they blew Santa up to A size! I referred to it as GMSC, or Giant Mutant Santa Claus :)

If you want smallish purple you could try to get Hilltop Ivan, the largest ball form. Its difficult to get - hopefully I will get time to dig mine up soon, but even so I am told it does not store well. It is dark purple though. Really hard to get that color in a photo.

This bloom is actually what I would consider a deep purple, although it may not look like it . My camera doesn't capture the purple color very well. As Tod said, it's hard to get the true color in a photo. I bought it packaged from a local garden center. It was supposed to be Babylon Red. I assume it is actually Babylon Purple. I don't know whether or not you like tall plants but this one ended up being 6' tall . The blooms are 4"-5".

Van Bourgondien does "slightly" embellish their dahlia sizes. I remember seeing the small ball dahlia named Cornell listed as a giant. lol

You didn't dig your dahlias yet?

I have dug a lot of them but I have first been targeting the areas where plants are I can't obtain from sellers anymore. I have 450 or so to dig though.

Wow! That's quite the collection. I've never heard of someone having that many.

Van B also 'embellishes' their colors, as In photoshop. They sell a dahlia that they show as a true blue thought in the narrative it is listed as lavender/blue. It is plain old purple. I had a friend down south order it for me and trans ship to me here since Van B won't ship up here. It was pretty no doubt, with a darker purple on the top of the petals and a much paler color on the reverse. But not worth what I eventually paid for it including postage.

Actually Tod has more than that. Am I wrong or did you say 650 Tod.

I think it's ridiculous if anyone would Photoshop the bloom colors. I do think some might have to do with certain lighting or camera settings. At least that's what I tell myself rather than believing some are trying to dupe me.