Dahlias: Looking forward to spring - Part I

My tubers are slumbering and looking good so far. I will divide in Spring. Haven't found any soft or spongy ones yet. One is interesting in that it has four tubers each spaced about 4" apart on the stem. Should be easy to divide that one!

Sounds good. Yes, that sounds like an easy 'divide' compared with some of the huge hairy clumps I have ended up with. By the time I am done I have a huge pile of detritus and one or two possibly viable tubers. Guess I have a lot to learn.

A brainstorm hit me the other night while I was thinking about how much of a PITA that the dahlias were to dig out. I don't have nearly quite as many as you all either. Anyway, all my dahlias will be planted in a row in front of a shrub bed next year, which is generally where they were planted last year. I was thinking of digging a trench about 6" deep by about 12" wide and however long it needed to be. Then I'd place something in the bottom of the trench that would allow me to more easily lift them out. I was thinking of putting in screening material or some of the more dense chicken wire. If the whole is wide enough, the tubers shouldn't grow into the screening. I don't know, I'm still in brainstorm mode and wanted to bounce the idea off you all here. LMK what you think of something like that or if you have a better idea. My main goal is to make digging easier and to decrease the chances of cutting through tubers as I did cut through a bunch this fall.

It sounds good, Jeff, but my concern is how are you going to get them up without a big struggle? I hope you have very strong arms and an equally strong back.

You could use anything that won't deteriorate in the soil - deer fencing (sold by the roll at the big box stores), not hard to cut and you'll find out if it's strong enough!

Would you consider planting them in pots, then sinking the pots into the soil?

I could bury pots, your right but my concern there is finding pots large enough. My biggest tuber group might not fit in a 5 gallon pot although I might be able to divide it in the spring once the shoots appear.

With the fencing, I would dig down a little to get some of the upper soil off, then pull the fencing out with dahlias intact. Would it work? Who knows. I'm at the drawing board and still thinking. I suppose I could get Home Depot buckets and cut them down so they weren't so deep. I would still have to figure something out for that huge tuber group as I'm not sure the longer tubers would fit in the bucket diameter.

True, finding the larger pots is a problem. I look at our dump in areas where building debris is supposed to go but often there are nice pots as well as nursery pots of all sizes.

If you had the help of another person, and left enough of the fencing sticking up (even if "covered" by mulch...but you know it's there), then each of you could tug on each side and get them out.

Our neighbor threw out a lot of HD buckets and he had holes drilled in the bottom. I rescued them and used them for tomatoes. That plastic seems very heavy duty to me but I'm a sissy.

Cutting the tubers off after you see them starting to grow just might solve your problem with the size of the pots.

Yeah, I'm no way skilled enough to judge where eyes are now. I'd have to wait until they started shooting. Maybe I'll do the buckets then and I could just cut them off halfway up. My main problem was that I found it hard to judge where to put the shovel point to dig them up. This resulted in some ruined tubers. I could probably get away with some smaller pots for a few of the smaller tuber clumps though.

From what I've read...begin digging the tubers a foot from the stalk (point the shovel straight down - not at an angle) and go round in a circle, then lift. You don't have to "dig" as much as loosen the soil and you don't have to go down too far - 8" should be okay. Sounds so simple but then there's reality and we can't always get around each dahlia.

The tubers you thought were ruined might have been saved. Treat the cut with sulfur (from your local garden center and still available in winter). Some people have been successful using cinnamon. Make sure they dry well and save as usual.

http://landscaping.about.com/od/tropicalplants/ss/storing-dahlia-bulbs_5.htm

Yes, smaller pots should work for the smaller clumps.

My shovel has a foot guard on it so it won't go deeper than the soil line. Not to mention with our hard clay soil, I'd have to be 500lbs and jumping on it to get it down the shovel length in one shot...LOL

The tubers I shoveled through were nearly bisected so I chucked them. There was a very large tuber that had a gash and I did put cinnamon on that and so far so good for that guy. I segregated it from others by putting it in its own bag in case it didn't work.

Good move!

Well I'm still learning that's for sure!

We're all still learning, thank God. I hope it's a never ending project.

Jeff, I was going to ask if you had hard packed clay soil and then I saw your last post saying you do. Just a suggestion, but before planting time next year I would buy bags of sand, compost, gypsum, etc. and try to improve the soil structure before doing anything like putting down screen. Even if you put down screen or wire you still have the biggest problem, which is the clay. I have bought bags of cheap mushroom compost and sand from the big box stores and add more each year. My soil is very loose and digging the tubers is now the least of my worries. I use a garden fork and I can dig a clump with one hand. Clay is not good soil for dahlias in the first place. Clay soil drains very slowly and most of the tubers I have lost to rot over the years were planted in soil with a good bit of clay. If I were you, I would definitely start by trying to improve the soil.

Many times I have underestimated the size of the clumps at digging time. I have cut through dozens. As Arlene mentioned they can often be saved. Let them heal (dry) a few hours and sprinkle the cuts with sulphur before storing. I have received several from the various dahlia vendors that had been cut and they have preformed very well.

You know, as I remember tubers that were shaped like cork screws because they grew around other roots I would be concerned that the tubers would simply incorporate the mesh in the tubers. No way you could save them then. I wonder if large pots with the bottoms cut out but leaving say 6-8" of sides would force them to grow more vertically and then if you use a garden fork rather than a shovel to go around and gently loosen the newly amended soil you might have more luck.

Just thinkin'

That's a really good suggestion on the soil amendments Dan. I'll have to keep that in mind when planting next season. Our soil is terrible. Hard packed clay and shale rocks. There's no topsoil at all.

Mary, why would you cut the bottom out of the pot before sinking it in the ground? I was thinking if I used pots or buckets, I'd make sure there were plenty of drilled holes in the bottom.

Oh, you don't have to. I just thought it might allow the roots maximum access to soil, provide good drainage, and yet keep the tubers and roots from wandering far from the base of the plant. Less likelihood of cutting a tuber. I haven't actually tried it. I have planted pots with geraniums and small dahlias in my garden and then moved them when holes opened up in other places. That works fine.

Yeah, I think I'll make the pots/buckets 8" deep and then put a couple inches of compost/soil in the bottom so the roots have somewhere to go without getting too far out of the buckets. I'll make the soil from scratch and use some sand like Dan suggested. This way I can lift the buckets and dump them out nicely. What do you guys think the perfect soil is for Dahlias? Like %'s of materials?

I'm not sure about percentages of the amendments but for now I would probably dig out an area you plan to plant and try to find some sandy loam at a nursery or farm. Around here it's usually $27-30 for a cubic yard delivered. After you get the soil in better condition you can add other things every year like leaves and grass clippings or start your own compost pile. It may take a few years to get it in near perfect condition. And I would suggest a soil test every couple years. I've been paying nine dollars per test and they recommend exactly what you need to add each time. I would think that clay soil is okay nutrient -wise, it's just that it compacts so easily.

Years ago, when I knew even less about gardening than I do now, I went to a nursery to buy topsoil for the vegetable garden and flower beds. They had two "mountains" of the darkest, richest looking soil I had ever seen. I have a tendency to jump into anything without knowing what I'm doing. I had 15 yards delivered at the end of my driveway. I moved it with a wheelbarrow. After the first rain, I found out that I had bought 15 yards of clay. lol Everything grew really well. But every time it got wet I had to bring out the hoe (should have had a backhoe) and loosen it around the plants. Chunks the size of softballs would break up. It's taken a few years but the soil is in good shape now.

I once read on a forum where someone asked how much compost or top soil they should add to their garden. The answer was "as much as you can afford".

I was able to get the neighbor kids to leave their bags of leaves in my driveway. I covered my entire front garden beds in about 4" of leaves. I will turn them under next spring.

Wow, 15 yards! That's a lot to have bought only to turn out to be clay. I hear you on that though but to a much lesser extent. When I was making our Honeylocust bed, I got a load of topsoil and a couple years later have noticed that it too is clay, albeit dark clay. It's well planted in but every time I plant something new, I add a decent amount of compost.

For the dahlias though, I think I'll dig the holes for the pots/buckets, and make soil from bags of different things. Maybe I'll use some sand, pea gravel shredded hardwood, lots of compost, and some native soil. That should make for a nice mix and I can recycle it year to year.

Many people, myself included, have (or had) the idea that the term "top soil" has some magical connotation meaning quality or prime soil. I learned the hard, costly and time consuming way. The question should always be "the top of what?"

I was fortunate in having mostly sandy loam type soil under the clay I had spread. I removed a lot of the clay and tilled the rest in at the end of the year. Luckily, I had a neighbor who needed some fill dirt and I was more than happy to help fill the need. Lesson learned.

Oh wow, you lucked out with that one. I guess I never really thought about the definition of 'topsoil' before. I guess clay with mixed organics is still clay.

Topsoil doesn't even qualify for "garden soil" which still isn't necessarily what you want depending on what you have

Buying Topsoil can be tricky. I had the same issue, But we used sand and peat moss to help loosen the clay up. They also make something called "Clay Buster ". At the end of the season Lowes had it on sale really cheap. I guess adding clippings and leaves or compost would also help, It is a work in progress, next Spring we are going to try to get some better soil. Wish me luck! Good topsoil suitable for gardening, is hard to find.

I've never bought garden soil, top soil, etc. so today, as I walked through the garden center at Lowe's, I was stunned to see how many varieties there are. I was actually looking for pine bark fines but they didn't have anything like it - mostly black or red "mulches". It was easy to pass it up and keep on going.

Ken, of Accent Dahlias, did tell me that soil with too much compost keeps the tubers too wet and can lead to rot. We're all out for the perfect balance.

It's tough to make perfect soil I guess. Oh well, we're always attempting it anyway.

I am at the other end soil wise. I live near a lake and have a mostly sand base to start with. Since starting my gardens I have added a load of aged horse manure and many bags of amendments to my nutrition poor soil. I of course use my own composted materials as well. But fortunately it is way easier to work into sand than clay.

When I was young we had a large garden in clay soil. We grew some of the oddest looking carrots and potatoes. All of the root crops followed the path of least resistence.

I've never had sandy soil though we have water on three sides of our little peninsula. We did have one area of clay (exactly where I had planned to put a Japanese maple but my husband did dig through it and we amended it). You did all the right things, hostages.

I'm sure the carrots and potatoes had some odd shapes!

Today's Bloom of the Day!

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/botd.php

Nice bloom right there! I like the coloring.

Thanks, Jeff.

Gorgeous and the shape of the petals really makes it POP. I will resist however. lol Thanks Arlene

I'm glad I didn't try to resist!

I just ordered 5 new bulbs from that dahlia grower, hope I wont be to cramped for space. Hi you all, I will have 18 days off from work, so there goes the garden planing and digging. Still have some pansies to plant, I will do it tomorow, it is sopposed to rain this weekend. Love you all hard diggers, I am so glad I dont have to dig the dahlias. Etelka

Etelka - did you order from River's Dahlias? I love their photos and they've all been true so far. When we love a plant we manage to find a spot for it. I'm going to try tomato cages for some of them this year and see if that helps with the flopping/tying problem. I'll still stake the cages.

You still have to dig the dahlias to split them or they'll grow themselves to death and you don't want that. At least you can replant them immediately but be prepared for the fact that they may have doubled or tripled in size. You can keep the extras or offer them to friends.

Yes Arlene, I ordered from River's Dahlias, I got one of each
Trooper Dan, yellow
Crazy legs, two tone orange
Lemon Marenge, yellow whit white tips
My Beverly, two tone pink
Victoria Ann, white with purple tip.

l am still looking for a very purple one, hope to find some . Etelka

I've only had Victoria Ann from your list, Etelka, but it was so stunning this year. No matter how often I hoisted it up and tied it again (and again, and again) it just wanted to flop so I cut lots of blooms for the house and stopped fretting about it.

I can see how those long stems do flop. So did mine. As the summer progressed, it seemed like the stems got longer and longer and not only flopped, then bent.

The third picture is beutiful, I hope my will look like that. My only white dahlia Snowbound does flop but I just let it do its own thing against the picket fence. I have to dig it up and devide it, maybe plant some in the back yard.

All of those photos were taken 10/19. None bent but the flopping was disappointing. The photo below was taken 10/6 and you can see how well behaved it was at that point. Clearly I have to tie them up again in early October.

It's worth digging, Etelka, in case it has expanded greatly.