What are your THREE most favorite Perennials?

This is the interesting part. I ordered grasses from another company (that for their sake shall be nameless) and the sent me grasses with their heads cut off, since they had bloomed. They looked horrible. I contacted them and they were very blase about it. They said they'd replace them if they didn't make it, which of course they didn't. (I got a refund instead). About the same time, I ordered grasses from Romence, and they had the good grace to package them in order to account for their size. Have a look at the picture below!

Do bear this in mind. Romence will sell you a gift certificate that you can give to yourself. It's it $15 increments, and you get a discount for doing it. So I bought myself three gift certificates and and cashed them in. If I recall correctly, they do this later in the year. And, by the way, their customer service is wonderful.

Happ does make a good point about being cautious. I ordered roses from two companies last September, because I was ordering for the following spring and they asked if I wanted them now. I said yes, assuming that they knew best (that said, Pickering does not ship to my zone in fall - they simply refuse. I simultaneously ordered two Gruss an Aachen from High Country Roses. The roses from the first company died and they declined to replace them. The roses from High Country Roses thrived. I think it may have been because they were from high altitude and my zone. The others were from Zone 7.

I ordered these three Morning Lights pictures below in September of last year, received them on September 25 (ah, detailed notes) and planted them on September 28. I planted my Grusses on October 5th. They thrived. I ordered the roses that died ( 2 Marie Pavie and Zephirine Droughin) a bit earlier and planted them on September 20 - before the other two. And Marie Pavie is a zone 4 rose. I think they died because they were coming from a warmer zone. Romence is much closer to my zone.

But prudence suggests (ha! coming from me who has none!) that you wait for spring - and that possible 15% discount!

Oh, look at the weird stuff! The funny little brackets come at the end of paragraphs!

mlm, my Rozanne only blooms briefly in the spring. What do you suppose is wrong?
I meant to mention that if I fertilize creeping phlox with something like 5-10-10 or any other granular chemical fertilizer, it burns and some gets killed off. We use only fine composted manure in the spring like Black Kow and some bone meal.

woodspirit- I am not sure about why yours only blooms in the spring. I think we had a thread last year somewhere about Rozanne. Mine get going in early summer, and go till frost. Today I noticed the one by my Escallonia shrub has clambered up about 6-7 feet tall and wide! Our weather is very different. Mine are in crappy clay, but on a slope so no puddles. They come back every year. I never do anything to them except some years throw some mulch on, barely water at all. Some are in sun, others in shade beginning at noon. They don't care, and they don't seem to care about fertilizer either. Here in the summer it is very very dry, with low humidity, and rarely hot at all. Others who don't seem to have good luck with Rozanne are I think from hot, humid climates.
hey everyone I am going to start a new thread about grasses.

Uh oh, my grasses came from Florida. I'll just have to get them in quickly, use a rooting stimuator/transplant aid, lots of mulch, and hope for a mild winter.

Btw, Mlm, I didn't find a thread for grasses yet... But what a great idea!

I have 2 Rozannes, both in part shade, but not equal amounts. The one that gets more light blooms all season, the other one has a much shorter season.

Interesting that your Rozanne only blooms in the spring Woodspirit. Are you sure it's a Rozanne and not one of the many other blue/lavendar varieties? Otherwise, is it getting too much shade?

Well, there is a thread for grasses and bamboos and I used to contribute to it a lot, but many of the more recent questions were about bamboos and I couldn't help because I've always avoided them. You really need to know what you are doing there, because many people ended up with running bamboo, and cutting it down and getting rid of it is tough, and sinking it into a container often doesn't work because it's an escape artist.

Here's the new one:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1377233/

See you there!

Great! I'll go there. I do think we need a grass forum within perennials. We have a lot of active users here.

Thanks!

Donna

All,these extra symbols all of a sudden, very distracting!

And just like magic, they're gone!

Thank goodness, they were super annoying.

I don't see whatever you were talking about, and I guess I'm glad.

I have another perennial I love. Sweet Woodruff. Pretty ground cover year round and blooms late winter/early spring.

I like sweet woodruff too! I find it hard to get established in my Boston garden, but I am only trying to put it in the most horrible spots.

I'm not sure what your ph is in Boston but you might look that up. We have low phosphates in our soil here so I am going to use some bone meal. I'm just not sure when to do that.

rteets, I almost bought Amsonia h. a few years back but learned one couldn't move it after you planted it due to the big root. That scared me off. I am going to look into that one again. I will have t/b really sure of it's planted location.

And, Dianthus 'Firewitch'. I've looked at it also and haven't purchased it yet. Does the seed come back true to the plant? I think I am going to get that one also.

I have a couple of Baptisia also. They are huge-around five feet tall, and they really put on a show. I really enjoy them. However, it's another one you don't move-but hey, it's so pretty why would you want to move it?

I have two Rozannes and do enjoy them. The one is in almost full shade--a little morning horizon sun and blooms much, much longer than the one that's in pretty much full sun. In fact, it starts blooming early summer and this is the end of September, and it is still blooming. Neither get a much extra water. I need to move the latter one. Please note, I am in zone 6b with heat and humidity. (92 with 102 heat index) It used to be really easy to research the old Rozanne thread, now, things have changed, it is much more difficult to find an old thread.

I tried some sort of Miscanthus years ago. I believe it was called Zebra Grass. It was pretty, but kept getting bigger and bigger. So big, we finally had to dig it out, because we couldnt see the traffic. We had a devil of a time getting it out. We ended up having to use the pick up with a chain to get it out of the ground. Since that experience, I have been very reluctant to put in grasses, although, I do admire them. Ones pictured here are beautiful.

Sweet Woodruff is pretty great. It's a quick spreader and filler in between things but it needs a careful watch to be controlled. It's really easy to tear out too if you need to make a hole for something new.

r21: So, has the Baptisia that is suppose to be smaller remained "smaller"? That would be a pretty nice plant.

Zebra Grass (Zebrinus?) gets HUGE! There is one aspect about grasses I failed to mention. They grown to very different widths and circumferences. Some of them are five feet across. Some are much smaller. Gracillimus grows 30 inches apart. I had 8. Silberfeder grows 60 inches across. One will do very well, thank you very much.

This is EIGHT gracillimus in the first picture. Ten years after installation, so they are mature. This is in July, so they are still growing upward. And notice that they do not flop at maturity.

The second picture is TWO grasses. Nine years after installation. The right is Silberfeder (which landscapers put everywhere but which flops) and the left is Strictus (like Zebrinus, but it never flops). Each of these is 60 inches across. If I had two sets of four I probably couldn't grow much else!

The third picture is one Strictus, one silberfeder and one Bluttenwunder. Nine years after installation. They take up almost as much space as eight gracillimus. And they are one heck of a privacy screen. Behind these grasses is a table that seats eight people, and has eight chairs. I picked these grasses so that we could dine in privacy (naked, had we been so bold!)

So please do be careful when you are buying grasses. Insist on knowing how wide they get. I remember writing a thread a long time ago about the width of grasses. But I should bring it up again whenever I write about them. The fact that my garden is smaller is why I did fewer grasses (3 Morning Light instead of 5) and picked very floriferous but smaller in diameter grasses like Huron Sunrise.

birder, I was supposed to write an article about "newer" Baptisias that are smaller, different colors, etc. I have all these pictures from Walter Gardens, but I didn't have much actual information. May I quote you?

Terrific illustration of sizes, a great help! Thanks! My big Miscanthus is 1 clump, the shorter Adagio is at least 7 or 8.

After my fiasco with Helianthus laetiflorus, I was extremely careful about widths when I ordered new perennial sunflowers. On Lazy S's site, some widths were left blank, including for my H l. The ones I got were the most restrained- at least I hope so!

b17, "Lemon Meringue has been in our garden for only a season and a half so it is still too early to tell about its ultimate size. FWIW it is still quite compact.

carrie: Of course, you can quote me. I have pictures also.

Thanks for all the pictures and information on the grasses, Donna. Your pictures are worth a thousand words--of course, I like all your information also! The grasses look so very appropriately placed. Very pretty. I like the floppy grass, Siberfeder, too-looks so nice. It would look nice on a slope.

I think I will try some of the smaller grasses.

It would be great on a slope.

I must give credit to the garden designer who placed the 8 gracillimus there. She inspired me so much that I started creating yet more beds, including the Bluttenwunder, Strictus, Silberfeder one. She used the grasses with smaller diameters as a fence, and I started using them as specimens. Of course, some grasses serve both purposes, especially if they are over a certain height.

I'll always be grateful to her. I told her what I wanted, and I did say that I wanted a garden based on grasses, especially miscanthus. I still remember her smile. Her firm did a lot of that kind of thing, but it was rare in residences in 1998. She placed the initial grasses so beautifully, giving that garden such great bones, that I could add and add and add without messing it up. I extended some beds and added others. If what I did is pleasing to the eye, that sweet young lady (it was her first assignment upon relocating from Boston) deserves much of the praise.

So, do you cut down the grasses at the beginning of Spring?
My Miscanthus Z. kept growing in diameter. Do the above tall grasses keep growing in diameter also? I have a place I could put some tall grasses, but I don't want them to creep into my flower beds too much.

With ornamental grasses, you want to cut them down before they start to break dormancy in spring. If you wait, you may be cutting new growth. Historically, I have cut them down by the end of March in zone 5a.

Some grasses clearly have a defined width. Gracillimus is probably the best example. Once it reached it's 30 inches, it stopped. They never grew together. Some grasses are runners. Mine were all clumpers.

I put in the above grasses to accommodate a five foot width at the base. After many years (more than 12) they never grew together at the base. I found that if I accounted for them from the beginning, there was no problem. I think people run into the issue of not liking to see bare ground. Therefore, they put in plants too close to young grasses. Hey, I've done it too. In this picture I posted in Dave's, here is the classic error: planting Morden Blush under Strictus in 2005. Strictus had not matured. And hey, it looked great.

Click though on this:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/88531/

But then, three years later, look at this disaster (see first pic below)

And four years later (second pic)

Happily, (third pic on the left) in fall I moved it to the gracillimus bed, which had matured years earlier and did not spread beyond it's 30 inches, and lived happily ever after (sorry for the overexposure - the light in Lake County was merciless!)

The moral of the story is to take advantage of Donna's mistakes. The best part about making them is that I can pass on the information to others who don't have the time or crazy energy to obsess over their mistakes until they fix them!

Thanks Donna, wonderful explanation with pictures. Couldn't be clearer.
So, I guess when one purchases grasses, it will say somewhere on the label description that it's a runner vs. clumper?

Hey, you wish!

They just want to sell it to you. There isn't a nice person at the nursery whose owner pays their bills who says, oh, no, don't buy that $24.00 grass. If they have it, they want to sell it. Landscapers are the worst. They get deals on certain plants and sell them to every client. I once saw a program with a very expensive landscaper who showed the viewers (I being one of them) five of her client gardens. The same ten or so plants were in every garden - right down to cultivar. That's why in the 1990's silberfeder was THE miscanthus. Everyone I knew who used a landscaper had at least one. I acquired one on my own about five years after everyone else - just as theirs began to flop.

I have a suggestion. Pop into the library and find a book on ornamental grasses. Take it with you. Make sure it mentions width - a lot of them exaggerate a bit, which is good. I have read from numerous sources that gracillimus gets 3-4 feet wide. Not mine. I measured my eight clumps. 30 inches. The other thing is that height usually does not include plumes. Watch out for grasses that "may require staking". You will often see this reference with Zebrinus. Scott of Old House Gardens once wrote that his looked like a big shaggy dog. How the heck do you stake a grass without it being visible?

Some grasses are known for seeding. My chinese fountain grass (the original really big one) started seeding into the lawn after a few years, but since it did so in hard little clumps I could pull it out. Did anyone tell me about that tendency? No. Would I have bought so many. Yep - it was worth the trouble.

The same with chasmanthium latifolium - northern sea oats. Seeds like crazy in my new yard. I must have 50 plantlets. Oddly, I brought it from my former home, where it did not seed at all. The difference seems to be moisture.

The right books will tell you this. But the other tip is to avoid heavy fertilization. I bought a billion grasses from Milaegers in Racine in fall (buy 12, get 6 free, by 6, get 3 free, buy 3, get one free and you've got to know I made many trips and did all the combos). The owner, the wonderful Kevin Milaeger, gave me two tips.

DO cut them back, or light can't get to the base and they die out in the middle.Then you have to divide them (with a pickax!)

Do fertilize them ONCE in spring with some 10-10-10, but otherwise don't, or the growth will be soft and far more prone to flopping.

By the way, here is a good example of Gracillimus staying in its place. I put this grouping in and had it for ten years. The grass went in about July of 1998. I put the plants in a few years later. I would guess I put them about 18 inches to two feet away from the base of the grass, since it flairs outward. I didn't really know what I was doing at the time (Morden Blush and strictus, anyone?)

One more thing. Some grasses slice plants. Morning Light definitely does. I had to stake my lilies away from it. It would literally slice them. But Gracillimus didn't. Or Strictus. Or adagio. I realize this in retrospect, mind you. You can see that it doesn't, and the effect of the grasses blending with some of the perennials was really gorgeous. Pictures 3 and 4 were taken four years after picture 1.

Thank you for asking these questions. It makes me think it through, and that's really helpful, since I am lucky enough to have two wonderful clients, and they have a lot of questions and it's so much better if I don't stand there and go - duh!

Well, I will see what king of book i can get. The "town" library only allows city dwellers to use their library. I'm not in the city limits. So, I am going to have to find a book. Our MG club has some books--maybe they will have one I can check out.

Donna, thanks for ALL the pictures and information. As mentioned earlier, I sort of "checked out" on grasses due to my one bad experienc even though, I have sure enjoyed seeing them in other gardens.

Donna, you have so much detailed information and pictures to go along with it. You should write a garden book.

Looks like I have homework! :)

Addendum: Lazy S lists widths on their website, as does everyone else. BUT in the case of rampant runners, 'width' is left blank. I found that very helpful.

Wow,, Donna, that's CERTAINLY enough info for a Dave's Garden article. You should at least write that.

Yes, Pam, that is helpful. Thanks. I like Lazy S. They have everything and I "think" they're pretty honest w descriptions.

Thanks for the info Donna and Pam.. So far I only have Zebrinus. I'm trying to get fied grasses under control (wild ones) and this was easy to identify, so it's been the only tall one included in the garden for now... Ooops, sorry, I also have Phalaris Strawberries and Cream and love it. Hope one day to add more and the roses too. But for now am too busy planting new things... Will have to remember the sale at Milaeger's tho, (is it thru their catalog also or just in store?).

I also have Lemon Grass (another oops, truely), which I've been told is not hardy here, but I disagree...Bought it at a local nursery years ago in a 2 1/2" pot. OMG, it has spread wayyyyyy to far and need to take Round-up to it now...it's grown to be more than 15-29ft wide now...in just a few years.. Yikes. Almost makes me wonder if maybe I should use it instead as my lawn grass tho not sure how it would take to mowing...or walking on. lol.

Unfortunately Milaegers stopped selling through a catalog in the olden days when there was a Garden.com. I used to drive from north of Chicago to Racine.

If you are looking for a mail order company that sells first rate grasses at a reasonable price, have a look at the Watchdog 30 company Romence. They are stellar. Forest Farm grasses are fabulous too, but the shipping can be costly, although they have many good suggestions for lowering it.

We all have an OMG - please don't beat your self up.

Yup that one sure is an OMG....And I don't have time to beat myself up nor anyone else......lol. I need to remember to put some Round -Up on it yet this season.

Lol, I guess I forgot about Milaegers....thought I still was getting catalogs from them, but I get soo many in the spring. I still have some of their old ones, must be how I remembered their name. I keep many of the good catalogs for reference material (pix and such). I have a old Forestfarm catalog ('11), wouldn't that be something if they had pix in it....but would end up the size of a metro phonebook I'm afraid. But their list of plants is vast!!! Seems to me that they had been on some garden shows where they toured the nursery and plantings....WOW! Now that's a nursery that could be a great tour destination. That's the second time I've read about Romence, do they have a catalog, color pix or B&W?

Yes, Kathy, I keep a few old catalogs for reference also. I kept a High Country Gardens catalog. It has all kinds of good information on Penstemon.

I don't think Romence has a catalog - at least, one has never been offered to me and I have placed several orders. But they do have a gorgeous web site with excellent color pictures.

If I could only have 3 they would be, Hostas, Coral Bells, and Liriope. I have 95% shade gardens and these are the backbones of my garden.