Seed Swap Feb.16 PRO MIXES available from Ric

coleup- You 'wondered,' and the linked thread ended in 2008.

I followed with 'I think they went out of business.' implying there is no Ches Blue to be had as far as we knew.

Ric supplied a possible alternative- after apparently recovering from one of those so-frustrating lost posts.

I don't think you were ignored.

Thank you for the new link for MotherJones.

lol Sally, I don't think I was ignored either! Struck me funny that both Ric and I posted the exact same link to that thread that ended in 2008. Great minds think alike. And, yes, I do believe that Ces Blue is no longer available.


Chesapeake Blue smelled way way better than fish emulsion. Wonder what crab packing houses do with their waste? I know Crisfield has a plant to process oyster shells.. There is a company in Carroll County I think that has contracted with a number of restaurants in Annapolis and Baltimore for thei r compostable waste which they compost and sell. Maybe every thing but the shell remaining after the meat is picked becomes one of those 'other' ingredients in say pet food? Or?

Hey Ric, I have a source for 5 gal food grade buckets with tight fitting lids...Shall I set one aside for your boat? And Daves has been eating parts of my posts, too.

well! I completely missed that ! HAHA Obviously RIC was ignored as I did not click his link!

The Gazette metnioned that someone is collecting some of the oyster shells from rstaurants and using them for oyster restoration- yahoo.

Last time I "checked" all the restaurant crab waste went in the dumpsters which was a huge waste and very smell and fly ridden too- oook.

It just occurs to me, very sadly, that there is a while lot of crab meat used here coming in plastic tubs from thousands of miles away. Is there still real crab picking in MD?

Sally, Many of the packing houses closed shortly after 9/11/2001. I was down in Solomons Island a few years ago fishing. Such a nice place off season. We talked with the locals and learned that the packing houses all closed. The crab was still there, and the building still in good repair. The reason was, no workers. Originally the packing houses had regular transient workers from Mexico, mostly women. The same women year after year, traveling together, staying the season, living with the same families, taking their money, and going home every year. Supporting an industry where no Americans wanted to work. Even with the prompting of the employers whose records showed regular employment and housing of these people could not overcome the fear that day produced. Work Visas were denied the industry quickly went into decline and passed. Just another way that 1 day changed our lives for -ever.
Judy, I considered the buckets, I didn't think I could open more than the first one, even if I waited till mid-Janurary. LOL Ric

Hmm, friends took me to lunch just today at May's, and they serve a lot of steamed crab. I wonder what a big dose of Old Bay seasoning would do to my compost? I might have to resist in any case, because I can just imagine my one (typeA definitely) neighbor's reaction if he found out I was putting crab waste out back.

Jill, I'm sure racoons is not all you would attract. LOL Ric

A friend down in GA was doing small-scale organic farming when I lived there... he made compost from crab waste, horse manure, and lots of live oak leaves (they drop in spring each year) that the local extension service analyzed minutely and proclaimed "the most perfectly balanced & complete" stuff they'd ever seen. I helped grab bags of leaves off the curb, went along a couple of times for loads of nicely aged manure, but only went once for crab waste -- indescribable. The stuff gave off enough ammonia fumes to bring tears to your eyes.

If I had enough leaves or grass clippings, I know the crab waste wouldn't be smelly after just a day or two (and before then, you wouldn't smell if it you turned it under). Anyway, if you're composting on a big enough scale, it's quite worthwhile to throw in a few bushels of crab waste, preferably without old bay seasoning. Otherwise, the fertilizers you've mentioned would do the job nicely also. LOL

Just catching up with this Thread. Forgot to "watch it"....

I know I mentioned this somewhere before--but "Chapel Hills Nursery, right here in Perry Hall,
had "Fine Pines" (that's what theirs is called) for $5 a bag. The bag is a bit smaller than bags of mulch--
but full and heavy.
I bought 2 bags last spring--and only went through 1/2 of one. The "fines" are very small and uniform.
No big and small. I could swing by there and see if they still have them outside--frozen solid, I am sure.

Now--I could be a real "sweetheart" and go dump some out, put something to give you scale, and take a picture.
When will be the next "warm" day???

As for the crab shells---Why couldn't they be crushed in some way with something like a cement mixer
with some rocks in it??? Or--drive over a pile of crab shells with your car....over and over....till they are smithereens.
OR--(look out--my brain is buzzing...) --have a Crab Feast and then give everyone a hammer and let them go at the shells...
Then it would be easier to dig them in to compost.

I think that Oyster shells are a much "cleaner" product. No guts and gills or spices to worry about.
And--I bet they are pure calcium!
They line parking lots and driveways with them in places around the Bay. I saw it in Kent Island once....

I bought 2 bags of the Lobster Compost at DPF. They were wet--and sooo heavy!
The old "Chesapeake Blue" bags were smaller. Less than 1/2 of an el-cheapo top soil bag. And they cost $8 at the end.

Coleup and Ric--thanks for dredging my old Thread out of the 2008 "compost pile"....
It was fun reading it over again. How do you all find Threads on any particular topic?
I know you can "search" I have never tried it...There is still a lot I don't do or know about DG. Fill me in!

Gita






This message was edited Feb 19, 2013 9:34 PM

Gita: That's a great price for the pine bark fines. I've been sifting my bags of mixed size pieces of bark, but I figure its ok because I use the larger pieces for mulch.

OK! I went outside, cut open my bag of "Fine Pines", took out a bit of the stuff out
and took a picture.
Now--this bag has already sat out there for almost a year, so the contents are quite moist
and look a bit "composted'.

There are a few larger slivers of wood in it--so, I suppose sifting will be needed--
or you could just hand pick these out. The actual pine bark bits look pretty uniform, though.

So here is the picture for you. Teaspoon on top for scale......Gita

The crab shells don't need to be crushed; they'll break down pretty quickly in a "hot" compost pile.

I'm thinking I should make up a lot of "gritty mix" to top up a new little rock garden area, although I don't think I'm going to worry about sifting out bigger pieces, just add the ingredients in about the right proportions and mix in situ.

Jill -- FWIW, Al says the gritty mix isn't worth the trouble or expense to use except in containers, where the point of it is to avoid the level of perched water that will sit at the bottom of the pot, and to bring oxygen to the roots.

That makes sense... but I'm thinking that its components would be good additions to rock garden dirt. In particular, I want to top off with a layer of sand and/or chicken grit. Ddoesn't chicken grit sound like it would make my hens & chicks happy? :-)

I'm with happy, re tapla.

I have hens and chicks in gritty mix in hypertufa. I think I went too far to the well drained side, they have been struggling.

I put a bunch of baby semps into about half Pro Mix and half sand. I think I added a sprinkle from my container of mixed time release fertilizer and moisture crystals, but at a fraction of the usual rate. They did better after I added a top layer of sand (note that this is builders' / masonry sand, *not* play sand). They're really not doing much though, but I don't know that they're struggling -- I think it's more that they're spending their first year growing roots, like many perennials.

Sally: Tapla suggested trying a 4:3:2 mix (turface:bark:grit) if more water retention is needed ....

I add the grit to just about everything - whether pots or plants in ground that require better drainage. Couldn't remember the term 'grower's grit' one time. I said come on now - y'all know what I mean...the big grit like for Turkeys. The SS mgr - shook her head and grinned - asking what I was using it for. So I told her - plants. She then out right laughed and said 'figured as much - you didn't look like a chicken girl to me.' I wasn't sure if I should've thanked her or been offended. Sheesh

haha
I'm not sure either, and don't want to say too much for fear of pi$$ing off some real CHicken Girls! But you know, no one else has That Chantell Smile, except certain lovely little ones...

I was curious about the turkey grit. Our store offered a choice of regular grit or oyster shell grit. Aha oyster shell= micronutrients and calcium?? maybe?? THought that might be bad for a pot in high proportions but good for long term soil in the garden.

There are (at least) five sizes of grit (at least the type gran-i-grit makes); in order by size, small to large, they are Starter, Grower, Developer-Layer, Turkey and Turkey Finisher.

And here is more information than you wanted, from http://www.ncgranite.com/gritmailer.pdf: "GRAN-I-GRIT makes money for you! When fed in the proper sizes, GRAN-I-GRIT usually pays for itself many times over by giving more broiler and turkey meat per pound of feed even on all mash rations. Layers fed GRAN-I-GRIT produce up to 20% more eggs with the same amount of feed. How does GRAN-I-GRIT make this possible? Birds rush feed through their digestive tracts, keeping it
only from 1/2 to 12 minutes in the gizzard. The proper sizes of GRAN-I-GRIT in the gizzard grinds feed particles so small that the bird’s digestive juices can quickly act on every bit of the valuable proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals and vitamins locked within the feed particles, converting them into a form for absorption into the blood
stream where they aid growth and egg production. So you can see – without grit much of the valuable feed passes right through the bird unused."

My husband, who seems to be looking ahead to retirement, has been waxing poetic about how happy his friends who raise chickens are, and how much they love their birds.

interesting, never knew grit was THAT vital. or came in all those sizes.
happy, we'll be next door, with goats...and chickens, or ducks..?

Oh Sally, goats and ducks -- wouldn't that be wonderful! I'm serious!

I know you are!!

maybe we need our own thread for this tho.

I know this is OT, but I don't know what I could put in a thread, since this vision is at yet mightily inchoate...

"Inchoate Acres" love it

Ric I promise to use my screen this weekend. I'll take some Kambark, screen it, and show the ratio of big to fine I get.

i just want to say that always jumping on to create a new thread is not necessary.

often these side threads just die a slow death. they are too topic central.
i am with happy--lets just stay right here.

ps. sorry that there are no capitals---i am on hold with my insurance co. and can only use one hand.
phone is in the other..... gita

I have a bunch of amaryllises (sp?) in the garage I had totally forgotten about -- I need to get them blooming to perk in March --

This thread served it purpose so let's dance.
Ladies, we've had goats, they're just lovable and love to eat weeds even poison ivy and multiflora rose. By the time I get the garden done I'd like to fence it and run some Khaki Campbell ducks in the garden. Campbells are the best laying ducks, producing as well as most hens. They are great weeders and pest controllers, They do a lot less crop damage than chickens. I used to let the chickens free range till things started to ripen, then boot them out of the garden. If they ate 1 ripe tomato it would be fine but no they have to taste every ripe one. They also scratch a lot, ducks don't. It would give Holly a reason to add yet another water feature. LOL Ric

Must watch
http://www.wimp.com/goatsyelling/

Wooo y'all have been active.

Sallyg, it is important that the oysters go back in the bay. There are other problems with the Bay but the depletion of oyster reefs is one that they are trying to improve upon. There is an oyster recovery partnership that has grown leaps and bounds in the last 5 years. I know that South Carolina had one of the first programs, that I know of, for recycling oyster shells. http://www.oysterrecovery.org/

I get a bushel or two a year and I always save the shells to return. I encourage everyone to do the same. It is cheap to make aggregate out of them and use them on your driveway or wherever but the spat needs a home!

The oyster population has been increasing but it is still at one or two percent of what it should be.
http://score.dnr.sc.gov/deep.php?subject=2&topic=16

Hmm..
Not to cross topics here but maybe I should change my name to UMD_Oyster
I love those little guys.

A mature oyster can filter over a gallon (1.3) of water per hour...

Woot Terp! Man after my own heart. So to speak.... My degree (UMCP) is Agriculture, Water Resources. Likely the degree program names have changed since then.

I feel so guilty about our poor Bay that I can hardly buy crabs. Oysters don't tempt me , and yes they are awesome cleaners. I wish I had waterfront property so I could hang a bag of cultured ones.

Wow, Terp, that's very interesting. I've never heard of returning oysters to the bay. Thanks for the info!

Cheering here, also. I knew about artificial reef efforts in various places, but returning oysters to their harvest beds is such a no-brainer idea that I'm amazed it took this long to figure it out! I'm going to check with Donna at Chef Lin to see if they participate... I don't know if their oysters come from a local source or not, but either way the shells might benefit this program. :-) They also go through quite a few mussels -- big ones from New Zealand, I think -- and I wonder if they might not be useful to the oyster reefs also.

I'm pleased to see that May's, where I had lunch on my birthday, does participate... but disturbed that they're the only Frederick restaurant that does so. Hmm. A PR effort is in order.

Jill. That is great. I have no idea how you would start to get more resteraunts in Frederick involved or if it would be worth while for them or dnr/orf.

Zebra mussels are a real non-native nightmare, the explosive nature of their spread and growth is awesome. The one positive fact that is overlooked is the amount of water they clean. I have read a couple of monographs that have expounded the purity of the water in areas where they have habituated, as well as lowering the contaminates in tropic species that bioaccumulate and bioconcentrate toxins and heavy metals. In may species of fish the fat is concentrated in certain areas of the body, with proper filleting techniques, most of the contaminates can be removed. Since most toxins and heavy metals are lipid soluble they are stored in the fat. Probably more than you want to know, I just want to know how to get rid of starlings. LOL Ric

That is SO interesting, Terp, I had no idea. That is absolutely fabulous. There aren't any drop off places near us (see http://www.oysterrecovery.org/public-recycling-collection-centers/). What do you do to keep your shells until you can drop them off? Do they become stinky?

And Ric, that is really interesting as well. How can I find out what species of fish allow the proper filleting techniques you describe to remove the toxins?

Well I have a friend who I give them to who runs to the eastern shore a lot. In the mean time I use them to break up downspouts or justttuck them in the corner. Out of sight out of mind.