Garden[ing] Ethics?

Wow: I lose Internet for a week and so much has gone on! (Internet loss due to our ancient house having real cables drooping in through the trees.)


"My mother and sister went to Macy's yesterday to buy some towels, as Mom had coupons. Said that the towels were not in sets - what??? I expect this of Tuesday Morning, but NOT Macy's. Ethics? sissy? Where are you on this topic?"

:-) Not entirely sure it's an ethical problem. Maybe they are being sleazy and just trying to up the prices, but perhaps they think people nowadays like to mix and match. I'm style-clueless, so don't ask me. I like Overstock - assuming this does not violate any non-promotion rules. I find the customer reviews very helpful in learning what I would normally learn by seeing the product 'in the flesh.'

Both my kids are inverterate thrift store shoppers ('I'm going thrifting" is their line), no doubt because I always have been. Why not? If it is in good shape and is good quality, why let it go to the HUGE warehouses full of discarded clothing, and why spend $$ on something just to say you got it at Cool-Name store? In fact, one of the most lovely things I own came from a thrift store: a silver necklace of many layers and intricate design. It was horribly tarnished, but I bought it and cleaned it up; I have received effusive compliments form women who buy serious jewelry.

@RubyW: I frequently point out to my students that someday they will find themselves overwhelmed with STUFF. Stuff that has to be repaired; stuff that has to be cleaned/stored/whatever. Most of them probably think I'm an oddball (true, that), but some get it. Usually I bring this up when we are studying views of various ecologists or 'utopists' who stress that less stuff actually makes for a happier life. Capitlaism requires growht, which requires consumerism; yet. it is bad for the planet and not at all obviously good for us who collect all this stuff. How much better, as you suggest, to give some $$ to people who are barely getting by, rather than buying more stuff for ourselves.

Grayce:

"Here is a thought for you, sissy - gardeners who have been taught by their elders how to grow automatically have a great respect for the earth and have the gift of lessons learned "the hard way." Those who are new to gardening have many lessons ahead of them, and there are the especially-gifted who are stars...they are very much tasked with learning how to ethically handle their actions with all things green, and must be so careful about advertising and latest fads... Agree? Disagree?"

Hmm. One of my grandmothers had, umm, 'gardeners,' although she was active in her own gardens. The other grew whatever she could in a nasty little plot after growing up in NYC. (The latter taught me a wonderful lesson that I hope to use in a paper/book someday: "A wildflower is just a weed that somebody likes.") My Dad did some landscaping around the property and really knew trees, although I would not call what he did gardening.

So, I came to gardening rather late in life with minimal family instruction. I started trying to reclaim an ugly gravel/weed plot behind the house I lived in during grad school; I got a bit more adventuresome in the house I lived in in TX during my first job. It was only when we moved to our funky farm house that I really started to get into it. I made lots of mistakes. However, because I was already interested in ecology and environmental philosophy, I never was a big user of nasty stuff (beyond my insane efforts to conquer fireants, fleas, and flying roaches in TX). I really appreciate the burgeoning of web sites and products that help us to be more responsible gardeners. You know, if all you hear is that "You gotta use this chemical for that," and you are desperately trying to save something, it's difficult to be responsible.

Soo, longish personal story probably not responsive to Grace's query!

An OT comment:

After our Internet outage, I checked back on some PHIL and political blogs I frequent. While those experiences were not entirely unpleasant, I was reminded tonight how truly lovely it is to come here and just converse with nice people.

I don't know: does gardening make people ... nicer?

"Gardening tills the Soul".......I have a small pillow with that embroidered on it...It was a gift from a friend.

Another favorite quote of mine is: "Bloom where you are planted"...

Saw that once on a poster. The picture was of a woodsy, dark undergrowth--like under a low shrub.
And--in this dark place--there was a single, beautiful flower blooming.

Gita

Speedie---

I just Googled "Bloom Where You Are Planted" and there were many posters that came up.

I believe this is the one I saw many years ago......

http://www.zazzle.com/bloom_where_you_are_planted_poster-228944261526349091

It must have affected me deeply as well--or i would not have remembered it after all these years...
It DOES have a deep meaning......if you are "open" to these kind of meanings.....

Gita

That is a beautiful poster, too bad I'm not "into" posters, but I told DH last night about the quote and that I want a t-shirt with that on it. You're right, it definitely has a very profound meaning, and was a very timely message for me personally. Thank you so much!

Sissy, seems that you are having the same experience I did when first meeting the great people at Dave's. I guess I started coming around here in 2005. I somehow found Dave's Garden website when reviewing customer comments on vacuums. I did buy and have since bought four more of the Dyson's that so many folks here were speaking of. I too was highly impressed for months would pull out my new vacuum to demonstrate it for guests at our home. Duh!!!! Doesn't take a lot to make me happy. haha

Anyway....not sure if it was the first spring or second spring here that The Mid Atlantic Gardeners forum here decided to have a Plant Swap and all get together and trade or usually just give away the plants that they had extras of. I had already known that there were numerous folks on here who rather ministered to me as I came here during a time when I had several health issues arise that weren't fun to face. It was nothing those first months upon arriving to go to my mail box and have a note, usually accompanied with a small gift of some sort or with plants or seeds in it. I was overwhelmed and had the very same thought as yourself......are gardeners a different and nicer breed of people?

At the first plant swap I attended, I was sort of walking on air at the end of the day. I truly had never seen a more giving group of people congregated at one time anywhere!!! The participants by the end of the swap were basically begging one another to take their lovely plants. Today as I walk around my gardens, I realize that much of the loveliness I see is due to the kindness and giving hearts of other Dave's members. At least half and possibly more of our plants have come from other Dave's members.

I will warn you that even here there will be wolves in sheeps clothing. I have had the great misfortune to run in to thankfully less than a hand full of folks here who seem to have hidden agendas of wanting to spread their misery around and I have fallen victim to them more than once. I finally took off my rose colored glasses and could see that here, like every where there are hurting folks who believe that since they are hurting, they should try to hurt others. BEWARE!!!

I hope that later you will be able to still claim that your experience with nice folks here has been very rewarding for you. Hopefully your garden will be happier for you being here too.

Ruby

Ruby we are so much richer having you as part of our group. You are such a lovely person.
So my pet peeve and in my opinion un-ethecial is some of the plant tags they have been making.
I have picked up a few plants that state under the Zone marking "All Zones" then in smaller wording it says over 35 degrees. When I see a tag that reads all zones I know that isn't correct but a less experienced buyer could be planting these thinking they will grow in their gardens.

Thank you so very much Holly.....but I must say I feel the same about you. As for your pet peeve, you are doing your part in warning folks with this message. I wasn't aware of it being done. Is it important enough for you to write the companies and voice your opinion? Can't say that it will change any thing, but at least you will have had your say. I presently have two companies, non plant related that I need to contact and voice some concerns over. One is a product I bought a couple of years ago and never took out of the package until recently and now find out it is defective. Darn!!! The other was a ten dollar coupon I tried to use towards an on line purchase which would never go through and I gave up trying. I just wonder how many others are much like myself and dilly dally back and forth over whether the cause is worth it or not. I was going to let the ten dollar thing go until I received another of the same sort of offer in the mail on Saturday. If these companies can get away with this practice and dupe a large number of people, no wonder some CEO's earn in a week, what some of us work a life time for.

Okay, off the soapbox. I am preaching to myself as I preach to you all. I needed to hear this message to work up my courage to say some thing later today as I compose letters to the two companies..........have a good one all.

Ruby

@Ruby:

I loved your comment. Of course, there will always be the lurking wolves, but I really do think that gardeners, especially here, are somehow more committed to community and ... I don't know - gentleness - than nongardeners.

@Holly: You have to be kidding! Who could possibly claim that any plant is "suitable" for all zones? Even Kudzu has its limits.

In addition to being unethical , it is quite possible that those responsible for this practice are committing consumer fraud.

When I first became a serious gardener, I used to buy plants from a small nursery whose owner regularly misrepresented plant profiles. (She would just say any plant I liked could take whatever conditions I had to deal with.) It cost me a huge amount of money over a couple of years, until I educated myself. I still have one of her 'gifts' to deal with: a junipoer she said would grow to about 6' X 6' and is now about 15' X 23'. I'm going to have to have it taken down by a professional, as my furious attempts to reign it in have fialed miserably.

Quite apart from the fact that misleading people is wrong, I don't see how it can be a good business practice. Her nursery went bust, for example. And I never buy any plant with a generic "Y Species" label (e.g., 'Hosta Species') because I learned that one has no idea what one is really getting. Geesh. :-)

The other thing I have seen on the tags are plants in big box stores that say perennial and aren't in our zone. Many of them are perennial in Zone 7 but not our Zone 6. It was one of the things I warned customers about when I worked at Lowes.

I posted this on another thread, but wanted to post it here, too.
In the plant commodities business, filling trays/pots, planting seeds and plugs is all automated. All growing requirements/functions are also fully automated. All is mass produced and many plants arrive at Garden Centers never having been touched by a human hand!

Labeling or identifying a for sale plant is a customization that costs money because it requires human labor more than other operations even with preprinted pots or the slap on labels with bar code that often detatch due to customer roughness/weatheror whatever. Pot size/color/ design are used to distinguish one grower from another, shade/sun, annual/perennial or special brand of plant. Vigrow, for instance prints all plant info on its pots while promoting its brand,

Newest thing in the industry is the QR which is that scanable square now appearing on more generic labels to drive traffic to a website for more info on a plant/shrub.

"If they see it, they will buy it" forget the details seems to be the rule of the day. If it doesn't grow, they will replace it. Plants are 'loss leaders' for big retailers/ impulse purchases, that help drive 'hard goods' sales.
Live goods have high losses (so volume is key) and there as yet is no way to tunr left over plant material into salable product on site like left over rotissary chicken becomes 'salad' ! The perishable problem still remains as well as the waste stream from perished plants and again, the man hours to trash them.

The 'comoditization of plants' continues to dominate the industry.

http://www.greenhousegrower.com/article/30507/its-not-all-about-plants

Didn't know about the automation, coleup. Enjoyed the article.

It is sure different from the way we usually think about plants- almost as pets.
More like plants as a piece of produce like apples.

I suppose I thought/hoped less enormous growers were more conscientious about labeling their plants. However, if nearly everyone other than the local tiny nursery is automated, that would explain how the Froelich yarrow I ordered turned out to be ... some other yarrow of a completely different color.

EEKS. I have let this trhread go, and for that I apologize. (I'll try to 'move it' later.)

I do want to fess up to what I have long considered a bad move: I purchased a very powerful pre-emrgent product (Snapshot) and am putting it around the beds that have been most invaded by strange grassy weeds and thistle.

I do not think this is a good thing, but I have gotten older and have multiple forms of arthritis. So, keeping up with my younger ambitions (many beds) is getting more and more difficult. I wonder if I should just have someone come in and plow under the beds with which I cannot keep up?

Good intentions have to compete with limitations, in many areas of life if not all.

Plow under- to plant into lawn? Another ethical question in some eyes.
How about- limiting your cultivated area, bordering it with shorter beds and with shrubs, and letting the rest go wild? Or not fully wild but plowed under, planted with some well placed and chosen trees, and a thick layer of would chips over the rest? In my neighborhood, there's not much I could get away with in that way. Having big trees and mulching under them, or leaving them to the moss, is about as low maintenance as you can get here.

Hey, Sally. sissy started another thread over here

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1282315/

See you and sissy over there