Good Growing Practices - an Overview for Beginners

Al, what kind of soil do you use for tropical plants that like it a little wet? For example, I've read that elephant ears like soils that are "moist but well drained." What kind of a medium is both moist and well drained?

For plants that need repotting (as opposed to potting up) EVERY year to perform at their best (like Colocasia), I use a mix of 5 parts pine bark fines, one part of peat, and 1 part perlite. Keep in mind that even plants that do well in boggy conditions where they naturally occur, seldom tolerate the same boggy conditions in a container. A stellar example of that is the peace lily. It often grows in standing water at stream side, but quickly collapses in containers when soils are too wet - as will Colocasia.

Plants love lots of oxygen in the root zone; you can say the more the better, within reason; in fact, it's as important to have enough air in the root zone as it is to have enough water. Ideally, you would have a soil that holds a very favorable mixture of water and air. This is most efficiently accomplished by using larger particles that hold water inside the particles - like pine bark. To visualize, think of a jar of marbles as a soil magnified, but imagine the marbles as being porous. In your mind's eye, can you see all the wonderful air space between the particles to make roots happy? ..... and the water IN the absorbent marbles being utilized as the plant goes about its business? Soils that are predominantly pine bark or other suitable particles employ the same principle.

The soil I use for Colocasia is in the middle. At 3, 6, and 9 you can see suitable pine bark fines from 3 different suppliers. The fir bark at the top comes prescreened & is what I use for the gritty mix.

Al

Hi Tapla. My name is Joe. My wife and I recently aquired an umbrella plant from her grandma's funeral so I do not want to kill it. I use to grow a lot of house plants as a child so I kind of know what I'm doing but it's been some time. I have read how much to water it and how to prune it but my main concerns are light and soil. I have no available east or west windows available. However I do have a south window that lets through a lot of sun during the day. It has a mini blind that I open and the curtains are very thin and white, almost like there is not one there. Would this be suitable? Now on to the soil. I have noticed your posts about your soils and fertilizers. Is there a good way to make the soil or do you sell your soil? What type of fertilizer should I use? Also, the pot the plant came is kind of tight. It's a 1 gal and the plant is about 2' high and 2 1/2' wide. It about 3' high before I pruned it. The leaves are about half green and half white and it is very full. The roots are growing out of the holes at the bottom of the pot. One last thing. Do you know of some good, hardy low light indoor plants I could start growing in my home? I would love to get back into it and think that plants help make a house look much more homely and could also give me and my five boys something to do together. I appreciate any input. Thanks.

Scheffleras are very durable plants, so a good starting point or a good way to jump back into a collection of houseplants. Their care is pretty straight forward - lots of light, temperatures above 65*, water just before the plant is completely dry and use a soil that allows you to flush the soil when you water, a fertilizer with a 3:1:2 ratio (see the opening post), repot and root-prune (usually every 2 or 3 years) in late June or early July. You can prune them back VERY hard in the summer if they grow out of control. See one of mine upthread on my post dated Oct 26 of last year.

Obviously, I recommend a fast draining soil that is durable and can be counted on to provide aeration in the root zone for the full interval between repots. You can read more about soils here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1073399/ Ask any questions you might have either here or at the other thread.

Your scheff and many other plants will do well in the south window. Most plants can adapt to the amount of light that comes through a south window, but the heat build-up on foliage can become an issue if air movement is minimal. The keys are to move the plant into full light gradually, over perhaps a 2 week period. Using a fan to interrupt the boundary layer (of air) surrounding leaves reduces heat build-up considerably, allowing you to give the plants more light, but watch foliage carefully. If you see signs of problems due to too much light of heat build-up, you'll need to correct. This is one of those areas that are going to vary from home to home & you sort of have to feel your way through or just play it safe.

I'll backtrack & answer your fertilizer question now. I really like Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. It supplies ALL the essential nutrients (most soluble fertilizers lack Ca, Mg, and other nutrients) in the ratio used by plants, and about 60% of its N is from nitrate sources. This makes for stronger stems and helps keep plants compact & bushy, something important for plants so often suffering from a lack of light. Alternately, use any other soluble 3:1:2 ratio fertilizer. Several manufacturers package 24-8-16 granular soluble fertilizers, and Miracle-Gro also has a 12-4-8 liquid. All the aforementioned fertilizers have a 3:1:2 NPK ratio (you can see RATIO is different than NPK %s).

You can pot up at any time with little concern except for the possibility of over-potting; that's IF you're using a heavy soil. Hopefully, after all this preaching, you won't be. ;-) Repotting, different from potting up, includes bare-rooting, root pruning, and a change of soil. That is required to prevent gradual decline, but it should be done in the month just prior to the plants most robust growth period.

I'll leave you to research the hundreds of plants available that you could try. Maybe a net search for "easy houseplants" or "easy to care for houseplants" would yield sites with lists; and maybe others that might be following along can relate the plants they're having success with.

Best luck. If you have additional questions or comments .

Al

Thanks a lot for all of your input. I will go to a local greenhouse and try to find a good fertilizer with the above formula.

Talpa, thank you for sharing your vast knowledge with us all. Do you have a specific book you'd recommend for container gardening, landscaping, propagating, just about anything that has something with gardening.

I went to Dyna-Gro's website and found a store that carries the 9-3-6 ferterlizer about 35 miles from my home. Hope I can get there soon. In the meantime I am trying to finish up some of the ferterlizer I have(MG). I mix a weak solution and water my indoor plants plus those in the GH.

Am still working on gathering supplies to mix my own soil. I just have to wait for good weather to sift/separate my pine bark. I'll have to figure out a way to cut the larger pieces.

Oh, thanks, guys! I didn't realize that there were additional posts on the thread that hadn't received attention.

Thanks for the thanks, and you're both welcome. Hopefully what you learn will improve your skills and help you get more enjoyment from your growing experience.

P4P - Are you looking for books for yourself? a gift? what level of information do you want?

Most books on houseplants have conflicting information that varies by author; and the author takes a lot of liberties in assuming what type of soil you'll be growing in. For example, the advice to not fertilize in winter is offered to protect you from yourself. The author assumes you'll be using a peat-based soil that you'll have to water in small sips to avoid root rot. The practice of watering in sips ENSURES that salts will continue to build up in the soil. Since it's very likely your plant wouldn't survive the winter if you fertilized AND watered in sips, the advise is offered that you should avoid fertilizing altogether. If the author really wanted to do his readers a service, he would explain the soil/water/fertility relationship thoroughly, so you can see that with fast draining soils that you flush regularly, that fertilizing throughout the growth cycle is the best way to keep plants happy/healthy. When you consider that most books about houseplants are self-published by vanity presses, it's easy to see how there can be so much conflict in opinion and assumption on the author's part.

The two areas that offered the most advancement of my ability to keep containerized plants happy came in the areas of soil science & physiology. Understanding how soils work is a huge part of the equation - the biggest. Understanding how plants work and how to identify and reduce the effects of or eliminate limiting factors was also VERY important. Fortunately, the soil part is pretty easy. You can learn practically all you need to know about container soils here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1073399/ After you let me know what kind of books you're looking for, I'll see if I can help you learn a little more about how plants work.

Al

At another forum site, I wrote the following because someone had asked if Scott's Premium Soil was a 'good' choice. You may find it of interest.

Is Soil X a Good Soil?

I think any discussion on this topic must largely center around the word "GOOD", and we can broaden the term 'good' so it also includes 'quality' or 'suitable', as in 'a quality or suitable soil'.
How do we determine if soil A or soil B is a good soil? and before we do that, we'd better decide if we are going to look at it from the plant's perspective or from the grower's perspective, because often there is a considerable amount of conflict to be found in the overlap - so much so that one can often be mutually exclusive of the other.

We know that grower A isn't happy unless he is squeezing every bit of potential from his plants, and grower Z isn't happy unless he can water his plants before leaving on a 2-week jaunt and still have a weeks worth of not having to water when he returns. Everyone else is somewhere between A and Z; with B, D, F, H, J, L, N, P, R, T, V, X, and Y either classically ignorant (it just means they're not aware there is a difference) or they understand but don't care.

I said all that to illustrate the futility in trying to establish any sort of standard as to what makes a good soil from the grower's perspective; but lets change our focus from the pointless to the possible.

We're only interested in the comparative degrees of good and better here. It would be presumptive to label any soil "best". 'Best I've found' or 'best I've used' CAN be useful for comparative purposes, but let's tackle 'good', then move on to 'better', and finally see what we can do about qualifying these descriptors so they can apply to all growers.

I would like to think that everyone would prefer to use a soil that can be described as 'good' from the plant's perspective. How do we determine what a plant wants? Surprisingly, we can use %s established by truly scientific studies that are widely accepted in the greenhouse and nursery trades to determine if a soil is good or not good - from the plant's perspective. Rather than use confusing numbers that mean nothing to the hobby grower, I can suggest that our standard for a good soil should be, at a minimum, that you can water that soil properly. That means, that at any time during the growth cycle, you can water your plantings to beyond the point of saturation (so excess water is draining from the pot) without the fear of root rot or compromised root function or metabolism due to (take your pick) too much water or too little air in the root zone.

I think it's very reasonable to withhold the comparative basic descriptor, 'GOOD', from soils that can't be watered properly without compromising root function, or worse. I also think anyone wishing to make the case from the plant's perspective that a soil that can't be watered to beyond saturation w/o compromising root health can be called 'good', is fighting UP logic hill.

So I contend that 'good' soils are soils we can water correctly, that is we can flush the soil when we water, without concern for compromising root health/function/metabolism/. If you ask yourself, "Can I water correctly if I use this soil?" and the answer is 'NO' ... it's not a good soil ... for the reasons stated above.

Can you water correctly using most of the bagged soils readily available? 'NO' I don't think I need to point to a conclusion.

What about 'BETTER'? Can we determine what might make a better soil? Yes, we can. If we start with a soil that meets the minimum standard of 'good', and improve either the physical and/or chemical properties of that soil, or make it last longer, then we have 'better'. Even if we cannot agree on how low we wish to set the bar for what constitutes 'good', we should be able to agree that any soil that reduces excess water retention, increases aeration, ensures increased potential for optimal root health, and lasts longer than soils that only meet some one's individual (and arbitrary) standard of 'good', is a 'better' soil.

All houseplants, unless grown from seed, have the genetic potential to be beautiful specimens. It's easy to say, and easy to see the absolute truth in the idea that if you give a plant everything it wants it will flourish and grow; after all, plants are programmed to grow just that way. Our growing skills are defined by our ability to give plants what they want. The better we are at it, the better our plants will grow. But we all know it's not that easy. Lifetimes are spent in careful study trying to determine just exactly what it is that plants want, to make them grow best.

Since this is a soil discussion, let's see what the plant wants from its soil. The plant wants a soil that contains in available form all the essential nutrients, in the ratio in at which the plant uses them, at a concentration high enough to prevent deficiencies yet low enough to make it easy to take up water (and the nutrients dissolved in the water). First and foremost, the plant wants a container soil that is evenly damp, not wet. Giving a plant what it wants, to flourish and grow, doesn't include a soil that is half soggy for a week before aeration returns to the entire soil mass, even if you only water in small sips. Plants might do 'ok' in some soils, but to actually flourish, like they are genetically programmed to do, they would need to be unencumbered by wet, soggy soils.

We become better growers by improving our ability to reduce the effects of or eliminate limiting factors, by clearing out those things that stand in the way of the plant reaching its genetic potential. Even if we are able to make every other factor that influences plant growth absolutely perfect, it could not make up for a substandard soil. For a plant to grow to its potential, every factor has to be perfect, including the soil. We'll never manage it, but the good news is that as we get closer, our plants will get better and better. It's that one little factor that we willingly or unwittingly overlook that limits us in our ability and our plants in their potential.

A 2-bit plant in a $10 soil has a future full of potential, where a $10 plant in a 2-bit soil has only a future filled with limitations. ~ Al

Al

I have been shopping and seem to be having trouble finding the parts needed for this gritty mix. I guess I'm going to head to the John Deer Store and see if they have it.

John Deere Landscape has the Turface AllSport for $14.95 per 50# bag. -- I discovered that Granite Grit is widely used for chickens so I started calling the feed stores. One does not carry grit for chickens (??), another has "some kind of grit- looks kind of like crushed up rocks, not sure what it is" per the young unknowledgable girl that answered the phone but it is $8.00 per 5# bag, and the 3rd store I called does not have Granite Grit but has oyster shells for $8.00 per 50# bag...

Al, Do Oyster Shells have the same effect or do I need to keep looking??

I have not run across the pine bark yet. I only found it in the big box store in very small bags or in the mulch area. I did find that "soil conditioner" but it seemed to have too many fine particals of what looked like regular water retentive potting soil to me... I should have asked the guy at John Deere but guess I was so focused on Turface that it slipped my mind.

Avoid the oyster shells. They're almost all CaCO3, which makes for probable pH issues if used as a notable fraction of a soil, and they're high in salts. Try rural feed stores that cater to people who raise farm animals. You might be able to find Manna Pro chicken grit - maybe even at a bigger retail outlet. The other products to ask for are Gran-I-Grit crushed granite in grower size or #2 Cherrystone by New Ulm Quartzite Quarries.

See my post of 10/29/11 for an idea of what you're looking for in pine bark. If you're just making a small batch, you can use ReptiBark from a pet store until you find something suitable. Size IS important, so be sure you screen the ingredients.

I pay $5/50 lbs of cherrystone, and the last time I bought Gran-I-Grit it was about $7/50 lbs in grower size.

Al

Thanks.. I'll put your comments to good use and tomorrow I'll do more shopping.

I ended up buying the reptibark at the pet shop. It's a nice size.

I had also compared the turface product's MSDS (material safety data sheet) with Oil Dri Floor Absorb (the stuff you use to soak up oil in garages) and it was the same exact components. Somewhere in one of the posts I mentioned it, but never did the freezer test to see if it would hold up. We sell the floor absorb where I work, I know it is way better than other floor absorbents so I wouldn't substitute anything else in that case.

Smiley,

Do you mind sharing the price you paid for the Reptibark and the weight of the bag?

Al, do you have an opinion regarding the Oil Absorb??

GTS, I want to say it was an 8 quart bag for around $9. Pet Smart website:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752663

Smiley (Julie)

Thanks. We have a PetSmart around the corner from my office.

Hi Al, first I want to say thank you very much for all the excellent posts and threads that you've provided.
I'm new to gardening and I probably read one of your posts about root pruning and then also looked for other threads here and youtube videos not finding much at all. Many say that you can cut off about 2/3 of the lower root system and I've seen one Bonsai person just saw off the bottom half or so. Now my understanding is that cutting the tap or primary root causes the plant to remain small or are there other factors? The reason that I ask is if I want to root prune a plant just to enhance growth but remain full size planted in the ground do I have to be careful not to cut back the primary root?

If you have a thread somewhere that I missed covering root pruning I would appreciate a link to it.

I tried root pruning a couple of inexpensive plants last week but did it simply to remove the old soil and any dead or poorly shaped roots. I did not cut them all back since I had not read about the roots closer in being younger and more vigorous. They are not doing very well with the leaves turning brown; I'm probably overwatering them. It is interesting that one plant in a gallon pot had many roots curving at about a 5" diameter probably from when it was in a smaller pot. These were both Blueberry plants and the roots were brownish, stiff and more wood like than the white roots seen on other plants. Is this normal for the type of plant or is it a sign of sick roots?
Also, it seemed as if some of the fine roots were even darker and just fell off - guessing here, dead from overwatering?

Again thanks for your generous help!

I'll try to take your post point by point and offer comments. First though, thank you for the kind words. For me, being able to believe I might be having a positive influence on the growing experience of others is what justifies the effort of posting, so your comments are appreciated.

How much of the root system you CAN cut off depends on several factors, among them are the type of plant (how genetically vigorous it is), timing (where the plant is in its growth cycle), the state of the plant's health/vitality level, and the growers ability to provide appropriate after care. The pictures below show a before/after sequence of a boxwood I pruned this spring. You can see I easily removed 90% of the roots from a tree that isn't very vigorous, genetically, and it recovered quickly w/o problems. Oops - I'm at work & don't have access to my photo files, so I'll have to post the pictures later.

Root pruning is more than just sawing off the bottom of the roots. A full repot involves removing all or a large fraction of the soil and selectively removing roots, concentrating on the problem roots first, and then the largest roots NOT attached to the stem. Severing the taproot doesn't keep a tree smaller or limit growth in containers. The smaller size of containerized plants is more rightly attributed to cultural conditions, primarily root congestion and less favorable soil temps compared to plants planted out, but watering habits, poor soil aeration, and nutritional issues all play their part as well. There are some fine points that make the following statement not quite 100% true, but for the most part, root pruning doesn't enhance growth unless it's done to relieve root congestion or correct problems associated with encircling or girdling roots, and then it shouldn't be said that it 'enhances growth'. It actually only allows the plant to return to a state closer to normal growth as defined by its genetic potential.

I don't think I have a thread here (Dave's) that addresses root pruning, but the information here http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0417334631829.html goes into considerable depth about maintaining trees in containers for the long term. Almost all of the information is applicable to houseplants with root systems that lend themselves to root pruning.

The growth habit of roots varies by plant. Some plants have very fleshy or tuberous roots, some have very fine and thread-like roots, and others have roots that lignify (get woody) quickly. Root health is very closely related to soil choice and watering habits, and deserves far more attention than it gets. Blueberries and other temperate plants in your zone are usually best replanted in the spring, or sometimes in late fall. Houseplants are best repotted or root pruned in the month prior to their most robust growth period - usually around Father's Day for most of them.

Al

I am new to gardening and would like to start a small assortment of flowers in my house. I am finding it very hard to start from seed. I have planted Carnations, Coreopsis and Portulaca so far. The portulaca has sprouted ok but seems to not grow any true leaves. The caranations have also sprouted but wilted soon after. Still waiting on the coreopsis, its only been like a week. The soil I am using is Shultz Feed Starter Plus. And for the time being a have them under a reflected 125 W CFL. Input would be much appreciated even .

Hi, Chris - All of these plants will prefer a life outdoors and will probably rebel at indoor conditions. Try starting them after the vernal equinox, during long days and increasing day length - use bottom heat and a fan. Ideally soil temps would be about 70*, and air temperatures about 10* cooler. As soon as the seeds germinate, eliminate bottom heat. Keep the soil barely damp - about as damp as a well wrung out sponge.

Al

Thanks for the input. I'm sort of just playing with it and looking to see what might do well. I here that carnations can do very well indoors and I'm waiting for the last piece of a grow light I'm building. I have a pic of the portulaca, its alive but doesn't seem to be making any progress. I wont really mind if they don't flower for a long time but if I can keep them nice and alive until spring that would be cool. But I might just be doing something crazy.

The moss rose is an annual that is genetically programmed to die as winter approaches, so I don't think you'll have much success with it until at least after the winter solstice, and you can expect much better results after the vernal equinox, unless you're willing to carefully manipulate the day length by completely controlling the duration of photoexposure they receive. The same would be true of the Dianthus and tickseed, even as perennials, they are programmed to react to decreasing day length by preparing for dormancy, so they're not going to want to grow now.

Try antirrhinum (first two pictures). I don't know if it will come for you from seed at this time of year, but I've had success with blooming them indoors over winter from established plants. Dwarf hibiscus (last picture - middle) is another plant that blooms all winter for me indoors. I've had some decent success with Impatiens repens, as well, if you can find it.

You're probably going to have better luck looking for houseplants with colorful foliage or known to be reliable winter bloomers to help keep the cabin fever at bay.

Best luck!!

Al

Seems as though if I a buy something already established (aster & mini adam) I have better luck wintering it indoors, but starting from seeds might not be a good idea.

Al - Hi -- Upthread a bit someone asked if Oil Dry is the same as , or can be used in place of, Turface...any thoughts?

Some products intended for use as an oil absorbent can be used in soils and some can't. They need to be of appropriate size and structurally stable. Some of the products are calcined (baked at high temperatures) clay and some are calcined DE (diatomaceous earth) - either will work if it's fired at temperatures high enough to ensure its stability in soils. You don't want to include it in a soil, only to find it turns to mud when it gets wet, like some low-fired products do. A good way to test it for stability is to freeze it solid in a cup of water overnight. If it's stable when it thaws, it's fine for use (if it's the right size). Ideally, the particles would be in a size range from about half the size of a BB to about twice the size of a BB.

Al

ficus, I asked about the Oil Dri. I never did test it. We distribute it where I work, I will go out tomorrow and find a broken bag & put some in the freezer.

I know it is a clay product, and the manufacturer advertised it as "thrice baked". We had carried some less expensive product at one time & had nothing but complaints about it's breaking down & becoming mud, so hopefully the Oil Dri holds up.

Al, how much would I put in a cup of water, do you think?

No need for more than a tablespoon, but as much as you wish. If the particles hold together after freezing, it should be ok to use. Again though, make sure the particle size is appropriate, and if you're using it to make the gritty mix, you screen the fines out.

More about the gritty mix if you follow the link provided. The important part of putting soils to work FOR you instead of against you is understanding how they work and what affects how much water they hold. That's all explained Here:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1073399/

Al

Hi Al, I am planting several blueberry plants outside and we've dug about 16" deep holes since I read that they need to be well drained and I wanted to provide a good quality mix. The largest plant was in a fairly large 3 gal container and I removed it and all the soil from the roots finding that the roots did not go much more than 3" into the mix. Also, the taproot and most of the large roots were spiralled as if it was in a 6" pot at some time.
Is there anything I should do about these large roots?

From what I understand the large clusters of smaller roots have much more surface area and therefore ability to take up nutrients than the large roots. I was wondering if the taproot does much more than provide a footing for the plant so that it does not fall over?

Lastly, does the mix down 12 or more inches do anything more than provide drainage? Do nutrients or soil PH matter that far away from the roots?

I am planting several blueberry plants outside and we've dug about 16" deep holes since I read that they need to be well drained and I wanted to provide a good quality mix. The mix isn't what's going to determine how good/poor drainage is, it's the percolation rate of the surrounding soil that does that. If you dug your hole in clay, you probably created the bathtub effect, but if you dug the holes in loam, you should be ok in where drainage is concerned. It's also generally considered poor practice to amend the soil in planting holes when the native soil is anything but sandy. The largest plant was in a fairly large 3 gal container and I removed it and all the soil from the roots finding that the roots did not go much more than 3" into the mix. Also, the taproot and most of the large roots were spiralled as if it was in a 6" pot at some time. Is there anything I should do about these large roots? Well, it sounds like your plant might have been recently potted up after having been left to languish too long in the same container. Plants should be potted up BEFORE the roots get congested to the point the root/soil mass can be lifted from the plant intact. If the roots are left to grow beyond this point, there is a near certainty that problems caused by the shape of the roots will permanently affect growth and vitality permanently. I don't know how comfortable you are with doing root work, but if they were my plants, I'd definitely get into the roots and correct any potential problems before giving the plants a permanent home.

From what I understand the large clusters of smaller roots have much more surface area and therefore ability to take up nutrients than the large roots. It has more to do with the fact that the young, often almost microscopic feeder roots, are most efficient at absorbing water and the nutrients dissolved in water. As the plant ages, some of the fine roots die and the plant goes through a regeneration process when conditions improve. Other roots remain viable and grow in diameter as the root extends, They also undergo physiological changes that make it more difficult for the root to take up nutrients, leaving the roots primary functions conduction and anchorage. I was wondering if the taproot does much more than provide a footing for the plant so that it does not fall over? No - it doesn't. Technically, a tap root is a primary root that emerged as the seed radical, so plants produced from cuttings or tissue culture don't have taproots. Instead, they usually have multiple secondary roots that grow downward and serve the same function as a taproot.

Lastly, does the mix down 12 or more inches do anything more than provide drainage? As noted above, in-ground drainage will be determined primarily by the surrounding soil, not what's in your planting hole. Do nutrients or soil PH matter that far away from the roots? For the most part, they have no influence on the plant unless they provide a home for the roots, but if there is something about the soil that has an impact on the chemistry of the soil solution, it could have an impact. For instance, you might mulch with or fill a planting hole with mushroom compost, which is often high in soluble salts. Even if roots aren't actively growing in the compost, the influence it has on soil chemistry can impact the organism.

This is kind of off topic for this thread. I'm happy to answer any questions I can, but maybe you could start a thread in a more appropriate forum & D-mail me a link to it?

Good luck .... and take good care!

Al

I finally remembered to do the Oil Dri test. It was pretty funny, everyone at work asked me what the heck was in the freezer, and also patiently waited for the ice to melt.

The Oil Dri Floor Absorbent held up under the test, though the particle size is pretty small. I hate to say it, but I'm not sure how big a BB is... never was a gun person, of any type.


edited to say it's not the greatest picture, I took it with my cell phone.

This message was edited Oct 26, 2012 5:51 PM

So is the 5.1.1 mix or the gritty mix better for peace lillies? These are my favorite plants but I've lost about 5 of them since 2003, it was because of root rot. I have two at the moment and one is looking kinda poor. I've had it over a year now and have repotted twice. I also have root pruned it. I live in a rural area and we have a feed and seed store across town so I think I'd be able to get most of the ingredients. Thanks for the help Al!

A BB is a round ball .177" in diameter, which is a little smaller than 3/16" (.187).

*****************************************************

Because they really should be repotted every year, I use the 5:1:1 mix for peace lilies, and it works very well. I never have trouble with burned leaf tips and margins, and they always bloom well in the summer for me - sporadically throughout the rest of the year, but that varies by cultivar.

Al

Al, just curious, what's the reason that PLs need to be repotted every year?

I have mine in 5:1:1 and it's doing very well.

I'm sure Al, who is very good about answering questions (unlike me), will tell you that in order to maintain maximum root virility, almost all plants should be repotted annually. However, just to give another perspective on the situation, as an interior landscaper I have taken care of hundreds of peace lilies, many different varieties, many different light conditions, kept them looking spectacular for years, and never repotted one. Also these plants were in commercial soilless potting medium, not water retentive as "potting soil" from the store, but not nearly as porous as Al's mixes, either.

I think the real crux of the matter revolves around root health/soil moisture, and the amazement derives from the abilities of plants to adapt to their environments. Yes, you can maintain healthy roots in an extremely porous mix watered every few days. Yes, you can also maintain healthy roots in a much less porous mix by paying close attention to the moisture level near the bottom of the pot, and not watering until the soil has reached a slightly damp condition, in which a small amount of soil pinched between your fingers will barely stick together when you let go of the pinch. Keeping the soil too wet is the main reason people have trouble with peace lilies.

Regarding repotting, yes you will probably have very healthy plants if you repot according to Al's instruction. However, in interior landscaping, annual repotting is an unattainable luxury, but still the plants can be beautiful, in spite of old roots, compacted soil, etc. How is this possible? I believe it is because interior landscapers use plant species that have an extremely wide rang of adaptability. Peace lily - spath - is an especially strong example of that ability. As long as the soil is not kept too wet, or too dry, for too long, and not fertilized too much (this keeps the soluble salt level from escalating), the plants stay beautiful.

So you have two approaches to growing potted plants. One (porous medium) requires more work (mixing soil, repotting plants when you buy them, watering every 2 -3 days, etc), the other requires more analysis in the beginning (determining soil moisture before watering, possibly keeping some sort of records,) but after that, watering once a week, or every other week, is the main effort. Some people prefer the first approach, some the second. If anyone is interested, I could try to go into more detail about the "professional" approach.

SS - Sorry - I missed your post. Root congestion slows growth and reduces vitality in plants. About the time the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact, growth and vitality are already being reduced. As root congestion increases, growth and vitality decreases. Vitality is a measure of how well a plant deals with the cultural hand it is dealt, so anything stressful is going to impact growth and vitality. Stress, is an indication the plant is operating at the limits of what it is genetically programmed to tolerate.

I think the fact that at LEAST 90% of the PL problems people come here looking for resolution to are related to over-watering, is ample evidence that soils that support significant volumes of perched water are extremely problematic for a very high % of growers, especially beginners. Maintaining maximum root health is ONLY possible in soils that hold little to no perched water. I can make that statement because we know that the function of roots within the soil mass occupied by perched water are always negatively affected. It simply is not possible to achieve the same potential in a soggy soil as it is in a well-aerated soil.

In a soil that requires water every week or two, there will be a saturated layer of soil at the bottom of the pot, due to the soil's small particle size. This soggy soil negatively impacts growth and vitality until ALL the water that exists between soil particles is used up. In a highly aerated soil, all or nearly all the soil is contained within the soil particles, leaving the space between the particles full of air. This is the ideal scenario from the perspective of plant health.

CAN you grow acceptably healthy plants in soils that are able to go 1-3 weeks between waterings? That's for the grower to decide on an individual basis - how much growth/vitality he/she is willing to sacrifice, because it's not possible to use these soils w/o paying for the convenience of these long intervals with reduced growth and vitality. Most of the growers needing help with their soils are already allowing a week or two or three between waterings, so what added strategic benefit can there be, other than letting their plants dry down even more between waterings? Then, how do you justify the soggy soil at that the bottom of the pot that create those conveniently long intervals? You can't.

I don't think we have two different ways of growing plants, or a 'right' way vs a 'wrong' way. What we know is that the potential for healthy plants increases as soil aeration increases (within reasonable limits, of course), and it decreases as aeration decreases. Period. This also means that the potential for healthy plants increases as required watering intervals decrease. We should be looking at ways to build soils that require MORE frequent watering instead of trying to learn how to cope with soils that offer these 1-3 week watering intervals. The regular stream of growers flocking to the forums for relief from their heavy, water-retentive soils, along with the thousands of testimonies of growers who have changed from water-retentive soils to soils that are highly aerated, is undeniable evidence of which offers greater potential.

I have posted threads with plenty of tips to help growers DEAL with the negative effects of perched water and soils that allow these extended intervals between waterings. The tips suggest a number of ways of removing some or nearly all of that excess water, and these are very helpful insofar as increasing the plants potential, but by virtue of the fact that these soils are soggy BECAUSE they lack aeration and the particle size is very small, even after excess water is removed they are not capable of providing as healthy an environment as soils that need no extraordinary effort to help drain excess water - they are not as well-aerated.

Al

This message was edited Nov 22, 2012 2:13 PM

Hi Al, I totally agree with you about the use of gritty mixes and I am gradually changing my own plants at home over to this way of growing.

However, as a newcomer to interior plantscaping I am asked to look after my clients houseplants and I can only water their plants once a week or even once a fortnight and the clients will not water the plants themselves. Like other indoor landscapers I have a quandary...if I use a gritty mix and only water once a week the plant may dry out and if I increase the water-retention of the soil I face the danger of perched water etc.

I guess that though the gritty mix is the ideal that sometimes we have to make compromises if the plants can not for genuine reasons be watered every two or three days.

I would appreciate advice on this, I am still trying to work it out for myself

..... and I completely agree with your observation, Mike. Because of time constraints and monetary considerations, interiorscapers are, more often than not, forced to make choices that allow them the extended intervals between visits they need to ensure a profit and fit everyone into the cycle. That's not wrong, it's just a fact of life.

Readers should understand that we're examining plant rearing from two different perspectives. You need to make a profit and need the convenience afforded by visits a fortnight apart (or some set interval). I'm primarily interested in showing growers who DON'T need to make a profit and CAN afford the time it takes to water every few days, how to get the most out of their plants. So, one view is with profit and convenience as the pivotal point, the other view is from the plant's perspective - what is best for the plant, which is how I tend to look at growing. FROM that perspective, we can get a clearer look at what the cost of convenience and compromise is - and there is always a cost.

That cost might not always be readily apparent because it often comes in the form of lost potential, which, where growth or yields are concerned is never recoverable. Some growers are passively compromising via their soil choices because they don't realize they have options. Others realize there are options, but are forced to compromise by time constraints; and still others are forced to compromise by how they order their priorities. It may be that a hobby grower works all day and feels it's more important to squeeze in an extra evening walk twice a week than it is to water plants. Again, that's not wrong, it just is what it is. Even if a grower would rather watch his favorite TV show instead of watering a little more frequently - who's to say there is anything WRONG with that? There shouldn't be a stigma associated with making compromises, but we do need to recognize them for what they are. I can help growers understand how to optimize root conditions and ensure your plant at least has the opportunity to grow as near to its genetic potential as possible (within the effects of other potentially limiting factors), but that doesn't mean everyone can, or will even want to, make the effort.

I think that because you understand the concept, it will always have the potential to be helpful; but like you said, you'll have to work out whether or not you can apply it or to what degree it can be applied in various situations.

Let me know if there's any way I can help you. Happy Thanksgiving!!

Al

I am maybe about halfway through this thread, so you may have answered this question before. I'm a slow reader, but I do intend to finish reading, as I'm getting a great education on proper houseplant care. I'm still new at it, but have been growing garden perennials for quite a few years now. I'm learning A LOT in through this thread. Excellent info.

My question to you will begin with a statement. I grow a lot of garden perennials (mostly daylilies) in containers to sell (extra money to pay for my gardening hobby [addiction]). I use either just regular garden soil or a mix of MG and composted cow manure (the latter I just started doing this year, and I repotted and root pruned many of my older pots of daylilies, which have responded well). Both types of soil/soil mixes have worked out well for me, but do you think I would do better with the gritty mix you use for the house plants, and should I use it in containers of annuals for outdoors as well? Seems I need more water retentive soil on the outdoor containers, unless I want to be watering every day, which is what I already do in really hot weather. I wouldn't want to have to water more than once a day on most of my containers, although I've read that Brugmansias really need twice a day watering during hot weather and twice a week fertilizing throughout their growing/blooming season (thankfully I only have 2, which need repotting next year, as they're really root bound and in dire need of fresh potting soil).

Karen

I forgot to add here that a lot of my "houseplants" move outside during the summer. I did read just a bit further and found you used your 5:1:1 bark based mixture for your outdoor mixed containers. Should I go with this mixture for my indoor/outdoor plants, rather than the 1:1:1 mix, which requires a lot more watering? And should I use that same mixture for the outdoor potted perennials that I'm selling?

Karen

OMG! I just had to add, how cute is that tiny little jade plant in the acorn cap that you posted last year on Nov. 6. You're an inspiration, Al. Are you a Master Gardener, btw?

Karen