Do You Use Plans?

I'm just curious to know if anyone uses garden plans either from books or magazines?

I was looking through a magazine last night before bed and they had a nifty little triangle shaped garden planted that featured a Japanese maple as the focal point. Well...I just happen to have one of those that's sort of on it's lonesome and I was thinking of incorporating some of the plants (which some I have in other places in the yard that could be transplanted) and using that maple along with the dogwood and pine tree that are all right there. The grass just does not ever grow in some places in my yard and well why not make it a new garden lol!

The growing conditions in my yard well, that's usually the challenge. Instead of moist shade, I have mostly dry shade and instead of well drained part sun, I have constantly moist to wet part sun. Full sun yep I got that but it's either hard baked clay or well drained lol! So I don't know how great these plans will do in the less than ideal growing conditions but figure it could be worth a shot anyway!

Thoughts?

Nope! Those gardens in magazines are done by pros and arranges just so. I don't even believe many of thee plants are, actually, growing there. It is like at a Flower Show--everything looks so real---but it is all dismantled in a week's time....Also--all those magazine gardens have endless space for beds---and they are "just so"......Yeah, Right!!!!

I sometimes have plans in my head----but not in a structural way---mostly what did well the previous year and what did not. Sometimes i write notes--meant for the following year--but I seldom follow them.
THEN--I go shopping--and all that gets blown to H---......

I only have SO much room for SO many new plants....My usual dilemma!
It is what it is--with slight variations in the annuals I plant.....

Gita

I think those plans can be useful, at least as starting points... they'll give you some ideas for composition, anyway -- something tall in that corner, three upright things for a focal point, five softly mounding plants for a meandering edge, etc.

I had to LOL at your thread title... I *make* plans all the time (graph paper, plant lists, the whole shebang)... *use* plans on the other hand... well, like Gita said, between concept and actual planting, a lot can change! But it's helpful to have a general idea in mind for what you're trying to do.

I hav made veg garden plans and its useful to be able to see what was where before. Like Jill I am better at making than using.
Recently I have thought I should sketch out my whole yard, and make a list of all prennials an bushes, and then place them in their best spots NOT by what can I wedge in here method, but by where will this look best and with what other plants. AS IF I'll ever be that organized.

Bu I would put a bed around those trees, as long as DH is offerring that free cut edge job!!! Mulch it all. Spring bulbs might tolerate it, the dry shade. And this group has been working on the dry shade problem for awhile. Corydalis lutea for example, grew great for spring bloom an I may have new seedlings coming along. I have used annual larkspur for the early summer bloom, then it dries up. hart's bellflopwer if the shade is deep enough.

With moist sun, you can do the things I can't! Joepye weed, milkweeds, turtlehead (Chelone) ?

I love looking at plans, thinking about plans, planing to use plans. I think RCN does a lot of that she knows just what plant she needs for a spot. My reality is I have a plant in my hand where do I put it. LOL If my beds look good with just the right combos it is just serendipity. I'm finding that next year I will have to move a few perenials. My Hellebore are much bigger than I expected. One of the lilies will have to be moved as it is too tall for the front of the bed. When the beds were empty and I only had a few plants I spread them out now that they are filling in I will have to move a few things around.

lol! I've never tried before. I'm more of a buy the plant and then add it where I think it needs to go. I am SO not about formal gardening!! Most plants have to be tough just to live here, the conditions are nuts and the attacks from wildlife can be brutal. I learned a long time ago that the best made plans can go up like smoke lol!

Today though, I did start drawing out a 'plan' for what I want to move and where once we get the dirt pile out from behind the pond and we get the woods over there 'cleaned' up. There is an amazing cedar tree over there it's huge! I want to clear all the dead limbs and branches from around it and get the vines that are choking up the tree cut down. Then it's all about a making a hedgerow out of current shrubs in the garden that are in the wrong places! (because I didn't have a plan lol!)

See I have visions (plans) in my head of how it should be, but it just never quite gets there. Though a lady neighbor did give me a nice compliment, she told me that my gardens reminded her of English cottage gardens! I said that was great because that is pretty much what I like. A lot of plants all blooming at various times, with lots of wildlife activity! The irony is I never 'planned' for them to be that way!!!

I am SUCH a planner, I check out plans on line and in books or magazines to get ideas and then adjust it to my yard. I am constantly thinking up new ideas, just need time and $ to implement.
I also research all the plants I want to plant first, then have an idea when I go to the garden center what I want to buy. Very seldom do I impluse buy at the centers.

I think RCN does a lot of that she knows just what plant she needs for a spot.

LOL, I do "a lot of that" but I'm not so sure about the "just what plant for a spot" part!
I start with a plan but it ALWAYS changes! And what a coincidence that this thread is popping up right when I'm "planning" another area :)

Angie, I have "visions" all the time but the problem is I either lose sight of my vision or totally forget what it was I wanted to plant where! With all the visions I've had in the last few years I've resorted to taking LOTS of photos. When I take a break during the day I'll sit in the different areas and "study" what needs to be changed, added, etc. For the past few weeks I've been slowly moving shrubs that were part of my vision around the Sitting Deck but obviously something went haywire because they don't work there. Too much shade, soil stinks, etc., etc. so I'm moving them out! As I continued to add them along the walk from the Arbor/Steps, every time I sit at the top of the steps for a break from the heat (and sweat!) I've been trying to figure out what I needed to do in "this" area. The original plan when I started the Arbor/Steps three years ago was to extend the path into the field. Well...Rick totally messed up that plan! Two years ago he jumped ahead of me (without consulting me!) and planted Trees and Shrubs in the area! Now I was faced with the dilemma of a Tree sitting right in the middle of where my path was supposed to go :( His solution...forget about the path into the field - no way, this is MY vision! For the past couple of weeks I've been "studying" and this is what I've come up with. I'll fix him, I'm just going to make an island planting around the Tree in the middle of the path! LOL

So I gather my ideas for what I want to plant here but another problem, there's also a Viburnum planted where the path will end at the edge of the field :( I figure I can make the path veer off in two directions to go around the Viburnum but there's still something missing? Another few days of "studying" and I've got it! I have one more birdhouse that needs to go into the gardens so I'll put it on top of a 4x4 post where the path veers off. But then when I add it to my "plan" it still looks bare so I add some cross pieces for a trellis :)

There's always a method to my madness :) LOL One of the things I have to move from the Sitting Deck is a Wisteria! I had planted it to climb up the Copper Arbor but I realize now there's definitely not enough sun there so I've got a perfect, sunny location for it on the new trellis! And as far as the "plan" goes, I've already switched out the plants before I even get started with the planting :) Early mornings are great for studying the photos and I had planned to plant a blue flowering Campanula along the front edges but really wished I had something with white flowers. Bingo, I've got just enough white flowering Arenaria montana (Sandwort) left before Rick throws them out and even though they won't flower as long as the Campanula they're evergreen so there will be some "color" left there during the winter. I might actually be able to get started with the planting today and even though I have a "plan" I'm sure there will still be changes to my vision :)

Jen,

It's so obvious that you are an organized planner. You got my attention when you were looking for specific cuttings with the colors that would coordinate with the color of your house. I think that I would love the results, but I continue to be just plunking plants down wherever I find some room and then winding up with a wild looking garden.

Pass this way one day and pick up some ground covers and rock garden plants for your new venture. We do have some nice rocks in our tree line, but they can only be accessed when the wild growth becomes easy to deal with in the cold weather.

Interesting toughts.
ldy-gardenr, those huge old cedars are great. I love the trunks on them.

I'm pretty good at planing out the space. I know I want the pond here a bed there. I can see just how the yard will look and I am very patient in developing those areas but for the plants that will go in them.
Oh RCN, wanted to say that the new area is looking so very nice.

This message was edited Jun 16, 2010 6:49 AM

Debbie do you use a planning software for those pictures?

I've gotten to drawing stuff out because otherwise sharing my 'visions' with Randy doesn't work lol. He just says Angie I can't see it unless you draw it for me. I drew out the landscaping for the pond the other day, labeled all the plants, what I wanted to transplant, what I want to add in the fall, etc. He was then like oh cool, that will look nice.

I don't know maybe men don't have the same ability to see 'visions' as women do, or maybe it's a gardener thing!

You know what I'd like? Not those books of preplanned gardens but a book that gives details on how to design a mixed perennial/shrub bed. I don't think such a book exists, which is ridiculous.

Landscapers must understand some concepts for planning that would give them a place to work from. Then again they probably choose from a personal ' library' of plants they will use. Not trying to fit in anything and everything we see LOL.

Men definitely can't see the picture in their minds. We have this discussion every time I don't want to be slowed down by stopping and drawing. Sally's right. We want everything we see put into our gardens and this usually doesn't fit in a professional landscapers scheme. All my neighbors have professional landscapers to put in and care for their plants. They have very neat safe bush and tree type areas and would not put up with messy roses and stuff that might drop petals and such on their perfectly mulched areas.

Ric does, must just be some men. LOL
Although I have very little mechanical ability I remember Josh just being about 8 years old explaining how to hook something up that I just couldn't figure out.
Many years ago when Ric first moved here we made a rough basic plan on some brown paper. I found that plan a couple of years ago and most of what we have done over the years follows thru with our basic vision of the property.

Yeah, Marshall does too, more moreso than I do. I think you either have an inner eye for that or you don't.

I'd just like to find something that goes beyond put the tall ones in the back and the short ones in the front and mix textures.

And no, I don't want one of those tidy plans from the plan books that tell you exactly which plants to plant where.

Hart that is exactly what I've been looking for too!!!

I live in the woods so a pretty little neat, safe landscaping design is not what I want at all. I dream of those magical paths that lead from one area of the garden to the other, never knowing what will be around the next corner! I want all of it to flow together which is the hardest part I think!

hart and Idy--

You can't beat the 1-2-3 books HD has. They have these on every aspect of home repair.

The 1-2-3 on Gardening is an amazing book! The editions we have floating around are only $15. Maybe it is an older edition? As long as I have been gardening--I still sit and page through the 1-2-3 gardening book and learn something. The back part of the book is an alphabetical glossary of plants--by category....

The beauty of these 1-2-3 Books is that everything is illustrated and described--step--by--step.
Also a lot of "hindsight" advice.

take a look at one next time you go to HD.

Gita

Thanks, Gita. I have the 123 landscaping book.

The problem with all the landscaping books is they give no real, practical advice on mixed bed design. In fact most of them don't have any real advice on landscaping design at all. Just the same old basic stuff I cited above, usually covered in a page or two while the rest of the book is filled with junk on how to build a patio or, ahem, plant profiles. Or they include those plant by numbers garden plans - usually not even with photos but with pastel drawings about on a par with the Dick and Jane books illustrations (telling my age here LOL) that don't tell me anything about what a real bed will look like.

And I understand exactly what you mean, Idy. Some of us don't live in the suburbs. I live in an old house with a humongous, hilly yard. Suburban designs don't work. I've also tried, btw, books on old house gardens - marginally helpful mainly with info on old plants and I'm not trying to recreate a 19th Century garden. And books on country gardens, which usually involve plans for suburban gardens made to look sort of countryish. LOL

What's her name, who wrote the well kept perennial garden book, has a new book out on mixed bed design but I think her bed designs look like a mess. I can achieve that look without a book. LOL I may try that book, though, in desperation.

Well...we'll see how "nice" it looks when I actually get it planted! I may have a slight problem? I've been telling Rick my plans for the area for weeks and last night he was down there looking at what I got accomplished in the adjoining garden and is now protesting my ideas for the planting. Now that he's actually seeing what I want to do instead of just hearing about them he doesn't like my choice of plants :( Honestly, I provided him with the same photos I've shown above, what can't he "see"?

Angie, I do have a landscape software program around here somewhere but I've never taken the time to figure out how to use it. I just use Photoshop with my own photos of the area and "borrowed" photos of the plants from the internet. I think any software would work as long as you have the ability to crop, rotate and layer photos. You wouldn't believe how many times I move those plants around! LOL

Hart, are you thinking of Pamela Harper's books? I'm sure there must be some good landscaping books out there but like you I just haven't found any yet. All of my planning has been done over the years by simply tearing pictures of gardens I like out of magazines, saving them from the web or putting markers in the pages of books I have. I can't always duplicate what they've done but at least it gives me some ideas to work with. I have to laugh at myself, I've been planting an assortment of Heucheras in the area I've been working in the past week. It took me two days, moving them here and there to get the right placement - colors, etc. That's something no book can help you with! LOL It's all in the eye of the beholder :)

oohhh those pastel drawings drive me crazy! a purple blob there a yellow one here..well duh we know that purple and yellow look nice together! The ones that get me are the ones that suggest English Ivy or Vinca vine for ground cover or monkey grass as a nice fill in.

There was an article recently in Fine Gardening about border gardens, Lynden Miller, said it took her like 15 or 20 years to get it to look like it does now, my favorite part was that the look she was trying to achieve was "Careless Rapture". Of course she had the massive row of hedges behind it and it looked pretty suburban to me but I like the organized chaos of it all. Most of the garden designs always have a fence or hedge behind them and that's great for anyone that lives in an area where they can do that, looks lovely.

hart maybe we should write a book, 'Rural Gardens For Real People'. I always said I was going to write a book about my gardening adventures lol!

Careless Rapture. That says it all.
I have limited areas in which I feel things work out well. Texture/ foliage contrast is a big factor there, can' t deny it. How well do those plans hold up when things start growing though? What looked super for me last year is not so great this year, the one thing is taller and wider than I expected Then there's the new lilies that are about to bloom at two feet when everybody says they will be five feet (Casablancas)

Just leafing through a book from DK publishing, Plants for all seasons. Pretty random selecton, goes to cultivar level which skip lots of similar things. I mean, how/ why pick just say three dayliles out of the zillions? And includes things like that yellow iris that is so invasive/ aggressive. So even thought the idea is good, the innocent newbie should really not take it all to heart.

Maybe what you need is to start by defining the bed conditions (part sahde, tree roots) then thinking (LISTING) what you have or like that will take the conditions, then think texture and height.

In the end for me it comes down to moving the actual plants and seeing the results. Which is a lot of work and time.

oh Debbie what have you done to me lol! I have photoshop elements and I spent quite a bit of time designing today!!! Thank you SO much for that information. I sent one of the pictures to Randy at work and he couldn't believe it. By the time he got home I had done the pond area, the left side yard and the new bed at the maples. I was working on the area you see when you first come down our drive and then moved onto the area behind my woodland bed lol.. All that's left now is the area where the old pond was, the back of the house and the large bed at the deck! He said, you get them all planned out and we will do one a year! He said if you are recycling plants we can do more haha, he just doesn't know how much work that will be! Again thank you sooo much!

Uh-oh! Have I created a monster? LOL Sounds like you've got the hang of it, have fun with it! :) Rick and I were "discussing" the area I want to get started on, where he doesn't agree with my ideas? We have "his and her" gardens and he thinks since he planted the trees and shrubs he should be able to plant what he wants there! Disagreed and told him I had already "claimed" this area when I planned for the Arbor and Steps and I had the "plan" to prove it! The plan has changed a lot from what I originally intended three years ago when he jumped ahead of me with the planting of his selection of Trees and Shrubs LOL

yeah it's pretty cool to be able to move the plants around that easily!

I wish Randy showed that much interest in gardening. Unless it's something to big for me to move on my own he remains uninvolved, occasionally if the weeds get REALLY bad in an area that is 'under development' he'll help me pull those out. He's happy to not go to the nursery or plant sales, perfectly content to let me chose what goes where (and plant it) and for the most part avoids gardening of that nature. Now if it's something big that needs to be moved, pruned or a big hole to dig (like the new pond lol) he'll do that, but as for trees and plants he really has no interest.

This is the 'before' of one of the areas I want to change. The grass just does not grow well here, it's little tufts all around and what a dusty mess when I mow. I want to take a few limbs off the pine (it's a Christmas tree his parents planted when they lived here) and maybe a little pruning of the maple (but just of the branches that are touching the ground). The dogwood in the middle looks ratty but boy does it bloom like crazy in the spring so it totally stays!

This is my vision come to life thanks in part to Debbie! Never would have thought about using PE for that! Now Randy can 'see' and I can change stuff till I get it just like I want it. Now if only I can settle on what I want lol!

Wow, the Photoshop plans are really inspirational! I have looked for years for software that allows me to set out my vegetable garden plans and finally ended up just using Photoshop, but it's more of a graph than the kind of pictures that you've developed. Of course, since I'm more interested in keeping track of rotations and what should or shouldn't go next to which, that works for me. I have a basic template that I print out and fill in with pencil or ink each season. But I would have liked to have heard about your methods when we redid our foundation plantings!

Speaking of landscapers, people on another forum were talking about the fact that a lot of landscapers plant varieties that just aren't appropriate for the climate or zone, because they look nice initially and it's not their money that will be lost when it dies. Maybe your neighbors have better landscapers than that, though?

My neighbors? Not so much, the one's that are in the woods are pretty much a mish mash of stuff, heck one doesn't even have grass! The one with more money than she knows what to do with has the standard hosta, hedge azalea foundation plantings. She hired a company to come in and put a 'wildlife area' at the back of her property as she pretty much cleared her 5 acres of all the trees. Well they planted pampas grass and some rhododendrons and that was it, I didn't say a peep!

The people that live up on the 'main' road mostly have the standard hedge foundation plantings, no real flowers. A few have small perennial beds around the mailboxes. There is one couple that are referred to as the 'horticulturalist' and they have lots of plants and flowers. I got to walk their property once while they were on vacation as my other neighbor was taking care of their inside plants and fish. The had a lot of stuff but I wasn't wow'd like I thought I was going to be. I mean I figured they are experts it's going to make me feel foolish..eh..not so much lol! They have a bed that is mass planted with heuchera's at the top of their property, it's pretty the way they organized it but I use mine not so much as specimens, more as accents to help break up all the green!

I plan on using the PE for my veggie garden too!

My, my Angie, you learn quickly and it looks like a great plan! I think the hardest part is just collecting the photos of plants. A lot of times you can't find a "landscape view", only flowers or foliage. I only started creating my "plans" about three years ago and even though I usually end up switching out some of the plants it's been a tremendous help in getting a vision before I start. Be careful what you wish for..."I wish Randy showed that much interest in gardening." After a few years developing our gardens I finally started claiming territory as mine because Rick and I have different tastes. We now have "his and her gardens"! LOL

greenhouse_gal, my experience with most landscapers is they have no actual plant knowledge! Unbelievable after all their schooling that they have a basic idea of what they want something to look like but don't know which plants are proper to create the look. We have landscapers calling us all the time looking for plants that haven't been available for years - obviously plants they were familiar with "when" they were in school. Most lack imagination and won't experiment with a lot of the newer varieties, hence the boring landscaped properties so many of us see. I say "most", there are some landscapers who spend more time searching for unique plants for their designs but they're few and far between!

I love Photoshop Elements. I really miss my old one, which isn't compatible with my new computer. I have a couple of other graphics software programs but they just don't compare to PE, which was so easy to use.

I think my biggest problems with figuring out plantings are, first, the number of areas I have to avoid because of the black walnuts in the back yard and finding areas that actually have some dirt mixed in with the rocks. Secondly, being able to picture just how big a shrub or tree is going to be when full grown. I always underestimate the eventual size.

I think a lot of landscapers use just whatever is available (and in plentiful numbers) and cheap at local nurseries. We're lucky here to have a couple of good nurseries that carry newer varieties and something other than the standard stuff.

My old house had been a model home, so the entire block had the plantings put in by the developers. It was all basic, fast growing and cheap stuff - more purple plum trees than you could shake a stick at, boxwoods, cypress, abelia. Over the years, what had been added was the standard stuff available at K-Mart because there was no plant nursery in Manassas until about the time we bought the house.

I take the images into the magic image extractor and get them closer to what I want. It's funny, I got PE to use for making card sketches (my winter time hobby) that I was sharing with other card makers. I've used it a little but not much for picture editing, but now I've fallen for it all over again. I was worried my edition was going to work with my new computer running Windows 7 but it did!!!

Nope 15 years of marriage and he still doesn't give a fruit loop about what I do in the yard. It would be nice to have him to share more stuff with. I mean he will listen and look, but he isn't interested really, just sort of does it to make me happy. I came home today and he was working on moving the dirt pile behind the pond so that I can start my planting plan lol! Now that he's seen it and knows that the plants are coming from other places in the yard he's all for it ;)

When we moved in, his mom had nothing but yews, boxwoods, euonymus, hosta, burning bush and azaleas here. I mean she planted a pine tree in front of the window! She had two lilacs that she planted under a pine, those poor things have been struggling for years. They will be moved to the new area by the pond where they will get sun and will bloom! People just don't always think things out when they plant. I made that mistake with two things currently in my yard, a deciduous red wood and some crepe myrtles. They will be moved shortly lol!

" Nope 15 years of marriage and he still doesn't give a fruit loop about what I do in the yard. It would be nice to have him to share more stuff with. I mean he will listen and look, but he isn't interested really, just sort of does it to make me happy."
Make it 20 years and you are tellin my story sistah. However, I don;t mind, my botanical playground. Though he gets a kick out of taking my extra plants to work to give away, which I don't quite get. I guess he knows its special..

I think Mark & Jim were glad of one another's company at the spring plant swap, LOL! Jim has gradually become a bit more interested, at least enough that he likes to show people around and can tell them some plant names... but the garden is pretty much just my thing. He has dug me some holes for trees and shrubs, and he'll help with setting up irrigation (needs strong hands) or pounding in tomato stakes, but for the most part he'd far rather have me hire help for anything I can't handle (he doesn't quite get that it's hard to find good garden help unless you're willing to pay a lot!).

He did manage to pick some Thai basil for our curry the other night... the weeds are taller than the basil (I'm hoping to get to that next week now that I'm back on my feet), but he correctly ID'd the basil and didn't bring in weeds. I was so proud! haha

hey that IS darn good! Mark is actually picking blueberries and raspberries this year. He can find those but Thai basil between weeds would surely tax his ID abilities.
But we digress...Sorry

We always have a sprinkle of weeds with our curry. snicker I shouldn't laugh. Chantell asked for potted weeds for the swap for their medicinal value. Boy, I must have a regular grocery store (or pharmacy) here if you're going to consume weeds.

critter glad you are feeling a bit better ;)

lol, now see I don't think Randy could even FIND the basil in the garden and it isn't even because of weeds. I can tell him 'don't mow this over' and five minutes later I see him headed for the plant! He did that was some wild maple leaf viburnums that I've been babying into a colony.
He said "can I mow back here"?
"Yes, just don't mow these over", I pointed, I held up a leaf I stood next to the plant in question. Next thing I know I look out of the garage where I was cleaning and he is headed right for the one I said not to mow over. I've got a big green stake in my hand and I'm screaming at him "what are you doing"!! as I throw myself in front of the tractor to protect the plant! He looks up with that wide eyed innocent (or clueless) expression "what"?
"Did I not just tell you not to mow this over"?
"but you said I could mow back here"
"yes but not this PLAN"!!!!T I say pointing at the plant behind me and giving him the I'm going to beat you with this stake if you move another inch forward look.
"oh well I didn't know"
"I JUST TOLD YOU! I showed you"
"well I didn't know it was THAT plant" as he backs the tractor up and heads off in the other direction..

Nongardener!

"Nongardener! "
oooh the ultimate insult !!!!!!!!!!
Cheapo white loop de loop wire fenceing, the dollar store quality stuff, is not to my taste but is one way to get the message across. At least my crew understands it ! Subtle, natural woven vine fencing woudl be more to my taste but they wouldn't 'get' that . .