Salvia Question

I hope this is the place to ask this if it's not please tell me

I have for the past 3 years tried to grow the Beautiful Salvia varieties they sell at lowes and other garden centers.
It's mostly the tall ones with the blue spikes like spike speedwell and i believe one had the name Adder in it. I've planted several in orange, blue, white, purple, I find the Tall spikes of flowers very lovely and the bees really love them.

My problem is they will live and grow but only for maybe the spring months then sometime during the summer they develope problems.
The tall stems will begin to get black spots down just above the root section it will then spread a little ways up the stem until the plant begins to die within a short while the whole plant is dead.
I have tried not watering and watering and insect killer sprinkled around the plant but nothing works :(
I really would love to have these in my garden i had one survive for a couple years once but it died the same fate as the ones i planted last year and the year before.
Any suggestions or comments would be very welcome ^_^


This is a pic of my garden where i try to grow them

Hi Harmony, I hope Danita sees this. She grows a lot of different kinds of salvia. It sounds like some kind of fungus disease or maybe black spot. Not insects probably. Beautiful perennial bed. Is that a working well? And fenced to keep the chickens out?
The pic is of one I've had about 3 years. It gets 3-4 ft tall. The bees love it. Becky

Thanks beclu727 Thats a fountain of my creation i had that idea after seeing the whiskey barrels and the inserts at Lowe's.
It's setup to where the water comes out of the old well pump into the first barrel then flows to the lower one and is recirculated.
I have that kind of Salvia in your pic the kind i'm talking about makes sort of a bush like the stems are very tall and it has a wonderful smell like a herb.

Becky, I was thinking "Danita" too - the salvia expert.
Harmony, your garden is lovely!
I have a "Black Adder" Agastache that is nice and they look similar to Salvias. I have had similar problems with Agastaches as you described.

The big Salvia I've had the best luck with is 'Black and Blue.' I hope it comes back this year. Have you tried it?

cedar18 that is what i remember the tag saying "Black Adder" yes that is what it was because i thought that it sounded like a snake and i had a orange one too.
I didn't know it was a Agastache and it's the one i have planted 3 years in a row and it has gotten the little black spots and they spread until it die's.

So is these black spots just common for these Agastache plants if so i won't try planting it again? I was really hopeing it was something i could cure.

I have the Black and Blue and the Hot lips too and they do very well. My spike speedwell does't do so well it's kind of small and seems to have the same problem as the Agastache above.

Harmony, you might try asking in the Agastache & Salvia forum. I have not had excellent luck with the Agastaches except for Blue Fortune. The first year, I lost one of 3, but I replaced it and all 3 are up now. I did have some weird discoloration on the foliage of one plant: a gold/peachy color that sort of looked diseased.

I believe the Ags require even better drainage than Salvias.

I just went to the garden and looked for my Black Adder; couldn't find it. I guess I moved it.....somewhere. It wasn't getting enough sun there so I vaguely remember doing that....uh oh.

Which spike speedwell do you have?

I looked up Black Adder in plant files, now I want some, lol. I don't have any agastache. I know certain kinds attract hummingbirds, so I'll have to get some this year. Maybe its time for a trip to TAT.

My BF was just at TAT this weekend, they have a lot of their spring stock, so yes, we all must go! She said TAT did have a lot of damage from the snow storm.

Becky, do you grow Blue Fortune? It's great - blooms forever and attracts every winged creature on the planet it seems.

Pam, I don't grow Blue Fortune. I've put it on my list. I would like some of the pink or salmon agastaches also. I have blue and red salvias (if they survived the weird winter.) I like having different colors of things.

Harmony, have you ever been to Thyme after Thyme Nursery (TAT) in Wintersville? A bunch of us met there last year. Bought plants, went to lunch, had a great time.

Hi Harmony,

I suspect that your "orange salvia" was an Agastache, maybe Coronado or similar. I have awful luck with the western native Agastaches too. They hate our humidity and need really, really well drained soil. They get root rot and collapse in days if we get more that one or two days of rain in a row. Grrrr! I even had one, 'Firebird', in a 3 gallon pot that was happily growing and blooming when we got a week of rain. The next week is was totally dead. I haven't grown 'Black Adder' myself.

The Salvia nemerosa cultivars that I often see at Lowe's also need really good drainage or they turn black and die too.

You may want to try Salvia guaranitica cultivars other than Black & Blue, like 'Argentina Skies', or the normal blue form. Salvia hybrid 'Indigo Spires' is supposed to do really well here too but I don't have it. (That might be what Becky has pictured) Salvia azurea is an easy and pretty late summer bloomer with sky blue blooms. It is sprawly though. Salvia pitcheri is similar but blooms in fall and has a tall upright form.

'Henry Duelberg' Salvia is one that I'd like to try. Look here: http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/cemap/salvia/salvia.html

Oh, and I've seen Agastache rupestris doing pretty well here in other's gardens. It is orange flowered and smells like root beer. Yum!

WhooHoo, TAT has that Agastache rupestris listed on the website. Now I really have to go there. Thanks Danita.
Becky

Becky, wow, I just glanced at the TAT list and I'm glad I live far away! :)

Danita Thank you i thought i was killing my beautiful plants and i now know they were Agastache's.
I guess i will just love them from afar i do love them so and i just love how the bees flock to them but they never make it in my garden.
I love the salvia on the link Blue just really pops in a garden i have blue balloon flowers and they really stand out.

Whats a good plant i could get thats similar to the Agastaches but works in our high humidity summers ?
My spike speedwell is a pitiful thing it had about 4 spikes last year and they are short but it's a beautiful Blue.

I have May Night Salvia which is a dark blue-purple and they are very prolific and hardy in my yard. I haven't had any problems with them, and if you keep them dead-headed they bloom from May until September. By mid-late summer they start looking ratty, but if you cut them back to the basal foliage, they will usually put out another smaller flush of blooms. It only gets about 12-15" tall though. I don't know if you're looking for something taller. I also have the Black and Blue which you can't kill! It has turned into a monster in my yard and is taking over. I've gone to alot of trouble to remove one clump of it that's about 5'x4' in favor of something else and it was challenging to eradicate. The May Night blooms are a lot more dramatic, so that's why I prefer them. I have several patches of it and it's one of the first things that blooms in my yard.

erdooley Thanks i have the May Night Salvia mine never gets that big it's kind of not very impressive in my garden. The only one i had died last year (drought) and i don't plan on replaceing it.
I was just hopeing there was something like the Agastache's i just love those they are very dramatic in the garden at least until they are gone.
Oh and i know about the black and blue i planted mine in the wasteland of my garden i have some ground in my garden not fit for anything. It has all the room it needs to run a muck there and if it spreads it just covers the useless ground and improves the look of the garden.
I Don't know enough about gardening as daddy use to say "To fill up a possum's ear" LOL

I did however inherit my Grandmothers "Green Thumb" she could grow anything and there's only one problem with that " It didn't come with instructions " ^_^

Harmony, that is one beautiful gardan and fountain!! How are your baby pigeons?

Harmony - I've had very good luck growing other perennial salvias - like greggii http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1074/ or coccinea http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/639/.
They bloom here in South GA from March until heavy frost - sometimes near Christmas. I love the way the foliage smells, but some folks don't. They are very low maintenance - I cut them back hard late winter before they set buds & again mid summer by about 1/3 to control size & encourage more blooms. Hummingbirds love them, too! They are the main color plants in my courtyard! Samantha

Those are so pretty i will be looking for those thank you graceful_garden

HI Harmony and the rest of y'all

Let me jump in here on the Agastache I grow them in pots and they do great. I am down here in northeast Florida or a one Georgian told me Very south Georgia. LOL Any way we are a mix of Florida and Georgia conditions so if I can grow them in a pot then they should do good for y'all. I just checked yesterday and mine are sending out new shots. They do die back in late summer but they come back from the roots in spring.

Sandy

Pam,
I bought the Blue Fortune last year and it did very well. In fact, I'm sure I purchased it at TAT when we all met. I saw their sign for the snow damage sale, but couldn't get there...been too busy and DH's been sick. He's going to have major surgery on the 26th. We've been going to different doctors, going to labs for tests and CAT scans, etc. Today I had to pick him up from work before noon because he just didn't have the strength to stay there. Took his temp, which was 101 and called the doctor who put DH back on Augmentin.

Anyway, if y'all get to go to TAT let me know and I'll try to meet you there.

JoAnn

Oh JoAnn, I'm sorry your DH is so ill. I've been through all that with parents, not spouse,so I know it's trying and worrisome. I'll be thinking of you both on the 26th, sending positive thoughts.

Delighted my Blue Fortunes are up, but
erdooley, I hope your experience with Black and Blue means mine will come back: it shows no sign of life now (of course, I cut it back a while ago, a mistake?).

Danita, I grew Agastache rupestris from seed last year and did not have good results. Most plants pouted and never grew well. One did okay and it is already up. Just not very floriferous or sturdy-looking I guess, kind of frail.

Containers just wear me out with the watering since we have a 'traditional' drought every year now. I have tried the moisture polymer crystals before, I may invest in them again and try the A. rupestris in a container.

My Black and blue, Purple majesty and Indigo spires are all showing green. But the San Carlos in the same bed isn't showing anything. It was new last year, so maybe it didn't survive. No sign of Argentina either.

becky, I've been out in the garden pacing like an expectant father! Checking every day for signs of growth on those big salvias. The fact that yours are showing life is not a good sign for me...

And then I find a skeleton of some plant that I don't recall being there, beside Indigo Spires, there is no label and I can't imagine what it is. Maybe a pleasant surprise. I'd like to try Argentina, isn't that a sky blue?

Hi Pam, Argentina is a sky blue. I got it last spring at Donna's roundup. I also got the San Carlos from her. I'm hoping they are just later than the others. Another new one I'm waiting for is Mystic spires, but I saw it has growth today. Whew! The Stampede cherry from Danita has new leaves on old stems. The ones that are up are by the greenhouse and the bed is a little raised. So the soil is probably warmer there. Becky

Lucky me my Agastache's i planted last year are sticking up their heads i will keep my fingers crossed the dreaded black death doesn't strike them this year.
Cedar i'm like you the tag went with the wind at some point and i have no idea what they are.
My Salvia is not up yet i have the tall blue variety.
The Black and blue i planted last year has yet to confirm it's survival of the winter :(

harmony I have heard that the Agastache like it hot, also I think they go dormant early so the dreaded black death might be only that. I also heard that the birds like the seeds .

Mine turned black to but the new growth is coming up now.

Wren doe's anyone know why the Agastache's get the black spots and die like they do in Ga.?

I wish i knew if there was anything i could do to have them in my garden the butterflys really like them.

This is the only plant i have ever had die that i replant year after year because i just love them even tho i know the black death may get them :(

I am wandering if you cut the seed heads all off that the plant would last longer. They produce a LOT of seeds and that maybe why they die back so soon.. I am going to try cutting mine back this year.

I will second the fact that agastache does well in pots--I have had some for 3 years now--the hummers, butterflies and bees love them--the bees are especially fond of the blue fortune--mine bloom all summer--I love the different smells they have

salvias don't seem to be as picky and they do okay in the ground--black and blue salvia is beautiful and does well here

Okay how big of a pot do i use for the agastache's and do i have to bring them in for the winter? What type of soil and watering instructions too please ? ( i don't do pots very well they tend to die on me)

I use an 18-20 inch pot (one that will fit about 40 lb bag of potting soil)--I use just regular potting soil--they do need to be watered but are fairly drought resistant and tough--they should definitely dry out between waterings (but in the heat of summer they do need water fairly regularly in a pot)--using a clay pot may help wick excess moisture away--I leave mine out all winter--the only water they get is from rainfall from October through when they peek through again in spring--that way they don't rot in the cold, damp weather--Lowes here typically sells many different colors at the end of summer--they are usually a bargain at 2.50 a piece--they also sell the purple spike type in the spring--it is the easiest--you will be able to spot it because it will be covered with bees even in the store (if it's anything like here anyway)--I have found it is usually more expensive though--all you have to do is deadhead it after the flowers fade and it sends more up

rah127 Thanks i will try out the pot on some this year and who knows maybe i won't kill them.

rah, does black and blue come back for you? I'm still pacing mine looking for signs of life.

Mine never die back completely but I grow them in pots-in fact down here they do better in pots.

Wren i'm not good with pots with all my animals i have a tendency to forget to water them. I like a sprinkler i can turn it on and let it do the work for me LOL. But i'm going to try with these i love the tall purple/blue one that looks like a bush when it gets big.
The butterfly's and bees just flock to that one and i like the bottle brush look of the blooms.

Get the water crystals and also keep trays under them, that will help.

Thats a good idea thanks i use to use those water crystals in my hanging basket.

I get out and cleaned out a flower bed this morning . I think I will but part of my black and blue salvia in it but I will have to add the water crystals in it. May add more of kinds of salvias to it later if these work as it is a hard bed to grow anything in . Too much sun in the winter-too much shade in the summer. But our large oak is dieing so it will soon be a very sunny bed.

cedar--it does--in fact it was taking over at the old house--I never had any luck with the mexican sage which is supposedly just as hardy though--