My first sprout!...it seems too early?

As excited as I was to find a Lily pipping through the ground a couple of days ago, I was equally concerned. It's LO hybrid, 'Novita', and I've found LOs to be the earliest to emerge in my garden. I brushed mulch over it, as I expect to continue having temps in the 20s through March. The sprouting lily is one of 5 bulbs, so the rest don't seem to be in such a hurry. Definitely want to keep it protected, because the sprout is huge! Should be a real beauty, it's on its 2nd year in the garden.

My beds remain mulched year round, but I've wondered if that is perhaps a bad thing for lilies if early emergence is an issue. Lots of sources recommend mulching after the ground has frozen in fall/ early winter. I'm curious if any of you do this and if it is helpful in keeping the ground cooler and preventing early emergence.

I'm curious who else around the country (and the globe for that matter) are seeing emerging lilies, and what you're temps and weather are like.

Would love to hear any input or thoughts!
Neal

Howdy Neal,

Look what I saw tonight when I got home from work - you're not alone! These are not newly planted lilies, and you can see last year's stems still present on most of them. Little early for us but now outrageously so for the earliest Asiatics or LA's.

^_^

Steve

Hey Lefty! I thought fall mulching may be a good practice for northerners. I'd noticed a couple of years ago while planting some clearance sale bulbs (in late December) that the soil in the mulched parts of the garden was completely unfrozen and workable, while the rest was rock hard. That year I did successfully overwinter some Elephant Ears and Pineapple Lilies in the ground, but the next spring I also had foot tall Lilies in April when we got that devastating freeze. It was late April when that happened, so I probably would have had a lot of Lily sprouts anyway. I never have to water in early spring, the one time we get regular rain. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever watered a Lily.

Hiya Steve! You mean I've got first sprouts at the same time you do?! I was totally expecting to hear yours were up a few inches! Is this about the typical time for yours to emerge? Do you grow any LO hybrids? I left last years stems standing a few inches on mine too- its some help in keeping from forgetting where its safe to dig.

The LOs are definitely the first to pop their heads up here. Two years ago with that very deep freeze after getting up to 80 degrees, a whole colony of LOs froze and mushed out. It was sad. They were so far up that there was really nothing I could have done at all. Once those temps start to warm, those LOs really race to the sky. There are planted quite deep too, mulch or no mulch, these guys come through when everybody else is still sleeping, must be the longiforum in them ;)

Tracey, do you have to protect your LOs yearly?

Actually that freeze of 2007 changed me into a big mulcher. I always did some, but now I do all of my lilies, not just the newly planted ones. It is my best chance. I also replanted the LOs more deeply (6-8 inches) and began planting all LOs that deep two years ago. I try to set myself up to win here, but if they freeze out, I know I gave them the best of chances, right? They are much too beautiful to live without .

I don't know what's what with lilies, I just love them and order them and plant them.
Here in Atlanta we've had a weird winter. Lots of mild weeks mixed in amongst the cold. All my potted lilies started emerging weeks ago and are now inside and about 14 inches tall. Sunday we had 3 inches of snow, which we loved (for the day) but last night it got down into the teens. I reluctantly went out to check on the damage to my daffodils, hyacinths, daphnie and hellebores, and there were my Easter lilies, one and 2 inches out of the ground already! I can't tell if the lily leaves' plant cells broke and they are ruined, but while taking a closer look I did see that the Toad Lilies next to them had already come out and were 3 inches tall and they were definitly destroyed.
I'm not really "up on" Toad Lilies, even though they are one of my favorite flowers. I don't even think they are a lily, are they? But can any of you, by chance, tell me if they will recover and still bloom this fall even though they have lost all of this initial top growth. I know lilies don't bloom if the top is lost.
I know the Toad Lily question is off topic, but can someone please slip in their thoughts when weighing in on to mulch or not to mulch.
It sounds like mulching is actually promoting the early sprouting of the lilies which sets them up for damage during late freezes. Is that what I'm hearing? But now that my lilies have come up, I definitly need to re-mulch what is above ground.

I do plant my lilies deep, glad to hear that's helpful.

Toad Lilies aren't Lilies, but are in the Lily family. I think I had some zapped by a spring freeze that same April I mentioned above. They rebounded and sent out new shoots and bloomed that fall. Sounds like the Easter Lilies are probably toast for this year though.

Drat. :-( Spring freezes always manages to "get" something. And it's not even really spring. What were they thinking coming up in February! I don't plant deep enough though. After about 6 inches, the clay here is like concrete and I give up. I'm usually planting amongst other things in pre-existing beds and can only disrupt the area so much. Due to digging width restrictions, I'm very lucky if I'm able to use my sharp-shooter instead of a trowel. Rock-hard clay is hard to dig with a trowel.
What kind of soil do you have in KY?

I'm pretty fortunate here, its a silty clay loam, enough clay for water retention and holding nutrients, but enough organic matter and silt to be friable and easy to work with. In most of the yard I can dig pretty deep before the dark soil starts looking red or gray with clay. Not the case in a lot of the state, but the house I live in is over 150 years old, so no modern excavating has removed the topsoil.

Fall mulching is meant to keep the cold in. If you want to delay sprouting in the spring, you need to wait until the ground is well frozen before spreading mulch. Even if your ground doesn't freeze in Georgia, I would still think that mulching to keep the cold in after the ground gets cold would be the way to go. While that means late November-December here, I am guessing it would mean January in GA.

Well, we southerner lily mulchers are certainly doing it wrong if that is the case. We mulch to keep the cold out. We mulch in fall. And it does sound like some of y'all are suggesting that lilies would benefit from the ground staying colder longer and we just aren't going to get a steady cold here in GA. Hence, planting deeper (as recommended) which some of us, me :-), aren't doing.

"I Am Still Learning."

Neal,

I leave my stems in place for the same reason. And yes, now that you mention it, I do have a handful that are up two or three inches, but noticed after work tonight that I have dozens just hitting the surface and some are huge in circumference. Last year I lost a lot of newly planted Asiatics to a hard freeze after they'd already sprouted - meaning they didn't bloom and the tops were burned - and now looks like they might be coming back with a vengeance. I think they might be coming up a week or two earlier than usual this year. I planted some LO's on magnolialover's (Tracey) recommendation for the first time this past fall, and I think I am going to love them, from all I hear :-)

^_^

Like 3gardeners, we've had a funky winter with lots of ups and downs regarding temperature - in 70's one day and then teens two nights later. Like GA, tempertaures in TX are anything but consistent. I only apply a thin layer of mulch in the winter if any and apply more in summer, mainly to deflect heat and to keep moisture in - though I have never been a heavy mulch user except on some perennials that are not established and might dry out easily. I plant all bulbs at the maximum end of allowable depth and 6-8" for large bulbs is the norm for me.

OH my goodness....I was out looking around today as were are in the 60's today...and found Triumphator has lots of noses poking thru!!!!

May I offer a suggestion about late freezes and lilies? Several years ago a freeze wiped out (well, for the year) my regales got frosted and didn't bloom, but the solution is easy. Do you have any old pots? I take my old terra cotta pots, turn them upside down, and put them on top of the emerging lilies. Larger pots can cover a whole clump. Plastics pots work if you can weight them down with pot lids. Pot saucers work on really small ones. In fact, anything in your house that won't crush the emerging stems and can be weighted down against the wind will protect them. Some of my lilies that I weighed down with things that pressed their little emerging greenery bloomed beautifully. And you can leave them on for a few days if the freeze is prolonged.

If temps are variable, you can move the pot lids to one side of the plants for easy replacement. My neighbors have undoubtedly gotten a chuckle when they realized that I was outside in the dark with a flashlight putting tops on lilies because I hadn't watched forecast and was surprised by a drop in temps.

And Steve, make sure you cover Amethyst Temple. Mine didn't come up for about three years because I didn't realize they were more sensitive and then covered them last year. And what a bumper crop I got!

Donna

That works great too...that is what I did last year and all bloomed!

Way to go Nan!

Donna

Make sure, as Donna eludes to, that you are not leaving the pots on when they are not needed. The temp can warm up inside those covers during the day, and promote even faster growth. In addition, with the darkness that covers impose, etiolation is encouraged (the plant stretching for light).

Donna, that's what I do too. I keep thinking about that awful late April freeze a couple of years ago, I had pots over the sprouts, but a week of temps in the 20s turned them to slime anyway. A night of freezing temps is one thing, but a week is another monster altogether- I hope never to see that again!

nanny, Triumphator is another LO hybrid- I think the Easter Lily genes make them anxious to get growing. I noticed my Triumphators aren't emerging yet, but are positioned in a place where the ground stays frozen longer. I may have to do some moving around. I like planting things that are prone to emerging too early on the north or east side of the house, the earth stays colder longer in those spots and I've noticed things emerge a few weeks later in those areas.

Mine do face northwest, getting afternno sun. Our house sits at an odd angle. We just never really got and stayed frozen here this year. My backyard is still saturated from the 1 foot of snow and then all the rain we had last month. I also keep leaves handy to cover them up with those before I put the pots over them. I covered & uncovered several times last spring!

Donna, I will keep that in mind for next year and follow your advice. I also like your thoughts on the upside-down pots with Leftwood's caviat that they should be removed as soon as the emergency is over.

Mine are starting to come up all over the place - well at least the LA's, LO's and Asiatics

Steve, I am so jealous!! It's 39 here and rainy. Not condusive to lily or peonies.. Keep the pictures coming!!!

Diann

I'm expecting 8 inches of snow tomorrow. Somehow , instead of just rain, the weather has turned frigid and snow is on the way.

So Steve, I live vicariously through you, once again ^_^

It was in the 70's yesterday and sunny- what a gift! I bet I'll be seeing all kinds of sprouts now!

Due to our normally mild winter early emergence here in Oregon has always been a problem with some of the lilies, with and without mulch. Dumping a couple pf inches of mulch on top of the emerging lilies has helped and not hurt the foliage in spite of our nearly constant spring rains. Sometimes we have had early emergence and very late frosts and lost all the lilies due to that, once the lilies are up 12 inches or more it just isn't possible to much them! Late frost can also damage the tissues and allow botrytis to become systemic and infect into the lily stem, causing dieback to the ground. Copper sprays can help this by providing some frost protection and disease control. Using a little sunspray with the copper helps it to stick. Copper is approved for organic production (I think) but dangerous to apply, WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES!
Lately we have no more mild winters, snow is becoming commonplace, like today, a blizzard. One good thing about the cold, it keeps them dormant and keeps the botrytis down!
S__W is a 4 letter word

Diann,

You are right but your time will come soon enough. It's going to be in 40's here later this week but at least no danger of a freeze. I have some lily stems 4" or so out of the ground - though it's been warm and sunny so I am sure growth will be rapid.

BTW I am FINALLY seeing hosta pips just emerge from the ground - since this is my first experience overwintering them I was not sure how they'd do here. Some have green emergence and some have little red pips not unlike peonies. they're alive though and appear to be doing well!

Steve

Thanks for the info Lisa! I'm extra glad to hear about the copper spray being approved for organic growing. I didn't know it offered frost protection either!

Steve, have you recently started getting into Hostas?

Hi Neal,

Yes Ticker got me started on them last spring. I bought some and got some from the IA roundup group as well, and Diann (Ticker) sent me some from her garden. So, this will be my first overwintering of them and the first time I've gotten to see them emerge from dormancy. We had to make special bed in the shade for them :-)

That's great! So you're sort of testing their southern limits, is that right?

Yes I am

^_^

They're JUST starting to emerge. I saw them with short green leaves up in IA in early May and we're usually about a month ahead of them, so I imagine they're on time to where they should be here. Do you grow Hostas also, Neal?

Steve will have no problems growing hostas. He grows tons of lilies and peony and they and they require a chill period longer than hostas do... Not only that, but Steve is a top notch gardener. :) I can't wait for his spring pictures!

Diann

Diann, its the natural next step, lilies, spring bulbs, peonies, and of course hostas!

Steve, do you grow Lilacs?

I love the tenaciousness of gardeners- we can't stand to be told we can't grow something, LOL! With me its a turnabout, always trying to overwinter marginally hardy tropicals in the ground, getting all giddy when Callas or Pineapple lilies return in spring. My next experiment in that arena is going to be Amaryllis. Brent&Becky's catalog says they will overwinter in my zone if planted deeply and well mulched. This spring I'm hoping to find some discounted bulbs to experiment with, I'm thinking spring planting will help get them well established and increase their chances of survival.

Aww thanks Diann you are much too kind!! ^_^

Neal,

I don't have any at present but I did have two bushes at my old house. One was "Miss Kim" and there was another that was also supposed to be good in the south - I want to say "Lavender Lady" or something like that. I got them from Wayside but when we bought our new place in 2006 I forgot to dig either one of them. I think lilac is regarded as one of the most difficult-to-grow plants for a southern garden and like you, I don't like to be told I cannot grow something, so of course I will have to order a bush or two and see how they do! I will order a plant or two next fall. Do you have any? Being in KY you are kind of "middle ground" between north and south so if you are successful with them I might have a chance.

BTW amaryllis will overwinter here but I only tried them once outside at the old place - and the flowers looked raggedy and malformed. I JUST planted some bulbs I'd had in pots outside this fall and I do have a set of leaves sticking up, so I'll let you know how they do. That would be wonderful if you could get them to return for you there in the ground, because they are an absolutely stunning group of plants and even just a few bulbs will make quite the show. Someone on here had some outside that looked fabulous (Dalegardener or someone?) but that was in Florida. We get hot like they do but unfortunately much colder and in general many more extremes like others far from the coast. Of course the cold is also a blessing as it enables the peonies and hostas and and spring bulbs and a wider variety of lilies :-)

This message was edited Mar 8, 2009 4:38 PM

Oh yes, middle ground we are here in Kentucky..the hot, humid summers of the south, and cold winters. The last 10-15 years our winters have been a little milder than they used to be, but we can still count on a few bouts of temps around 0F, and typically without snowfall. When I'm choosing roses for cane hardiness, I go for those hardy to zone 5. So, one of the good things about that is Lilacs grow very well here! I have 10 now, including one really old one that was already here. I lost one to the back hoe work we had done last fall, grrrrr...., but plan to keep adding more- love that fragrance!

okay - I know what an Asiatic lily is, and I know what an oriental lily is, and I know what a trumpeter lily is - but this neophyte does not know what an LO lily is . . . can someone explain?

An LO is a lily that is a cross between the longiflorum (Easter Lily type) and the oriental lily, creating some beautiful, many fragrant, earlier blooming lilies.

Mags, isn't Buggy's Awesome a LO? It truely is Awesome! :)

I think it is a trumpet/aurelian, but it does also say that it is an interdivisional hybrid . It doesn't bloom as early as the LOs that I have around. But you are right about it being 'Awesome', it is one gorgeous lily.