Help my hill

I have a monster, partially terraced hill in my backyard that has become a major gardening and gravitational challenge. If you have any suggestions for what might help to curb erosion and maybe even look pretty, I'm all ears.

So far, the only things that have taken are a Silver Buffaloberry, a Caryopteris, and a dwarf burning bush could be doing worse. What's up there is native grasses, a rabbit bush (that I'd love to take out) and lots of pokey yuccas (dogs don't seem to mind). I can't get wildflower seeds to take, tried 3 times. I've killed 2 trees already as well. The soil is so dusty and dry, nearly impossible to dig into, and I have no irrigation up there save a manual sprinkler I turn on once a day (when I'm trying to grow stuff lol).

How exactly should I go about soil ammendment? What should I plant and is there a trick to putting in plants at a 45* angle?
Any ideas would be so appreciated!
Susanne

I would say native plants are your best bet. There are lots of penstemons for example that would really flourish in a location like that. You could also have a gigantic colony of Indian Paintbrush.

Should I start with plants (as opposed to seed) and then water a lot for a week or so? Natives so far have been the most successful. I have a pretty big, new collection of Penstemon...I wonder how well they spread and multiply. If they do so readily I could have a lot of Penstemon to put up there next year. Good idea.

I was also thinking, and I think someone suggested, some groundcover. What kind would work best for the hill of plant doom?

Great hardscape! All that terracing costs money! Be thankful you don't have an unterraced hill in your back yard. That would be a big problem. I have no problem with Chamisa ( rabbit brush). It is beautiful in the fall, but some people are allergic to it. If you are one of them, rip it out.
Natives and penstemons are a great idea. If seeds don't work, try plants and water until they are established.
Blue flax works very well in New Mexico. It is not a native plant, but one that is naturalized i.e. it has moved right in and resows itself. It is a perennnial but I find it dies out after a while. If you seed it, water it until it germinates. If you buy or grow your own plants plant them and water them until they are established. They are used a lot around here for highway embankments and a bank densely planted with them is a knockout.
Consider a native tree. I don't know what is native there for sure, but think about pinon. They are very slow growing but very drought tolerant. Or Ponderosa pine if that is what grows in your area. Look on those wild hills behind you to see what likes to grow there. Scrub oak? I have that in my yard. My little keeshound thinks it is her secret hiding place. Spreads rather too much but mine gets watered when I water the lawn. You might find yours less aggressive if don't water it. Where to get it? Maybe there is a native plant nursery in your area?
For shrubs we like apache plume --easy to germinate and tough or mountain mahogany. Here you can buy them at Native Plants of the Southwest. Another popular shrub is rhus trilobata -- I wish I had some idea of a common name but it grows wild all over the area. It has tiny bright green waxy leaves and red berries. Very attractive and being used a lot in our area for landscaping. Check out Native Plants of the Southwest website. I know the woman who owns it and she is an outstanding botanist.
And native grasses can be magnificent. Blue grama grass, side oats grama, and others are beautiful, though only one in 10 blue grama grass seeds germinates. Once you get a few clumps going, though they spread. There are others, like needle and thread grass --lovely, black grama. Maybe a mixture of native grass seed. Cover the bank with straw -- from the local feed store and sprinkle until it germinates. It is slow starting but looks nice when in a year or several -- things are slow in the the Rockies but speed up with water.
And some native cactus would be nice -- since you don't go up there much. The dogs will figure it out. Prickly pear is easy. Others are more complicated but very nice.
I say go for natives and naturalized plants. You will be pleasantly surprised, though they might start better if you give them water at first.
And keep us posted!

I think you will have more success with plants than seed because of the slope and wind but seed from your native plants is free so I'd keep trying. I think coneflowers would work there. Definitely want to do those as plants not seed. For groundcovers seedums would work great. I have real fast grower that I'll send you seed for. It is a prolific self sower so should take from seed. Have you thought about putting some rock groupings in a few spots so you could creat a little flat spot behind them to plant in? For slope plantings I plant so the plant is at right angles to the soil. That way all the roots are at a proper depth in the soil. Looks weird at first but the plants turn up to the sun real quick.

Great ideas, thank you as always. I am very glad that the hardscaping is there...we could never afford all that. I'll have to look up all those suggestions Betty, sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. We have a Pinon in the front yard, and I think that wouldn't be a bad idea for the back. I hadn't thought about evergreens for the backyard since my front yard has 2 ...and quite honestly I would prefer a different look for my curb appeal, but the backyard is a different story.

Dahlia, I love the idea of putting some stones up there to create itty bitty terraces. Had not thought of that!!

I saw a magazine devoted to cottage gardens and there was a feature on a New Mexico garden on a large hill sort of like mine. I loooooved her look-- it was all native grasses and native perennials mixed in with no particular order. It's exactly what I want. She had created impromtu border gardens around the perimeter with natives and xerics and then had larger walking areas of the native grasses. That would be my ideal.

My problem is that we can't afford to waste money up there...like everything dying, and we also can't afford to make big changes at once. I had the idea to take one weed out, put one desireable in, one after another until the whole ground was controlled. But it's slow going...that and I can't get that Rabbit Brush out to save my life! (yes, very allergic) lol, thanks everyone for your help. Any suggestions for xeric groundcovers?

Isn't grand that the rockies are rocky!!!! Free rocks whoooo hoooo! ps I totally luv rocks.

how to plant thyme on an incline:

clear an area of soil and supplement with some organic matter (fine compost is good, finely chopped leaves are ok)

spead thyme seed (mother of thyme is available in lg packs, also other kinds) thinly over the cleared soil

water in well with a misting attachment

spread a 1/4" layer of builders sand over the seeded area

water/mist well again

(you can also arrange rocks first, seed, then put the layer of sand over the seeded areas)

this is best done in the very early spring. Thyme may take a while to germinate, but once it gets going it will be prolific. It also likes growing up and over rocks.

The saem technique works well with verbena, alyssum, and lavendar.

I thought of two other native plants you could put up there:
1) liatris -- which truly is a native plant around here.
2) datura melanoides -- the white one.

Both are natives and hold on well. Datura can be planted from seed or from plants. Buy the white one, not all the fancy hybrids -- purple & yellow -- they don't grow anywhere near as fast or as large. But Datura is exotic and beautiful and has huge leaves to protect from erosion. If you have cattle it is bad news. I doubt if dogs would eat it. Leatris is a bulb that holds the soil.
Sorry to tell you so much at once but this kind of planting is done a lot in this area. If you are allergic to chamisa, I am sorry for you, but it would be a great plant if you weren't. I think it is beautiful.

I'm going to plant some baby datura today! But, I may have too much shade. It certainly will get big and cascade down the hill! I like the idea of penstemons and you could just divide the ones you already have and/or get seed from them. It will be beautiful in no time.

Was watering, watering, watering yesterday, which gave me a good look around the garden...

I have a large clump of Mirabilis multiflora, about 18" tall and 3-4 feet across, which is on a dry berm facing southwest, and it re-seeds. It's a native, highly xeric groundcover, with magenta flowers and attractive leaves. I'll be potting up some seedlings and I'll collect seeds, both of which you're welcome to. The only problem with it is that it dies down completely in winter. I also have seedlings of Russian sage, which is not native but very attractive and xeric. I have a lot of blue flax -- I'll collect seeds if it's not too late. I can also collect seeds of prairie coneflower (Ratibida), which I've had great success with in my hellstrip -- it's also native.

If you can afford a few shrubs, I concur with Betty's suggestions. I got an Apache Plume and a Prunus besseyi "Pawnee Buttes" at the Spring DBG sale this year -- one was $12 and the other was $20, I think. In past years I've gotten Rhus trilobata (Three-Leaf Sumac) and Mock Orange "Cheyenne" at DBG for less than $20 each. They always sell xeric shrubs at the Spring DBG sale -- they're not very big, but they're reasonably priced. Some of the xeric shrubs are low-growing groundcover type shrubs -- the Prunus besseyi "Pawnee Buttes" and a variety of Rhus trilobata are very nice alternatives to groundcover junipers.

Another low-growing native xeric is bearberry, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi (aka kinnikinnick). My mom has an overgrown patch of it, which I'm planning to clean up for her this weekend, and hopefully find some seedlings I can pot up. If I'm successful I'd be happy to share.

Trish

Hi Susanne!

New to DG, but I am dealing with a similar situation here in the Livermore area (north up 287 from Ft. Collins). My 'yard' is one huge hill with varying slopes. I think we have about 100' vertical from the top of the hill above the house to the wash at the bottom. Plus I am deaing with my horses running around and the house not being fenced off. I have been using the native rock to stabilize the slopes where I am planting and to control horse access and erosion. Here is a shot of the new rock garden on the east side of the house where most of the dirt was gone due to erosion. Please note this is NEW! Not many plants yet- but I am working on getting it going. So far the only non-native I have here are some gazanias and the couple of geraniums I just stuck in the ground for some color and to see if they would even survive the wind. This is our first summer here in Colorado, so I am learning!

You would not need so many rocks- I have them piled up with all the sharp points in the air so my horses will not venture near this area!

Kathy

Here is shot from the top of the wall where we wanted people access (and dogs) but not horses. Just around the corner are rocks all the way to the edge of the kennel and going up the path to the back until it levels out- very horse unfriendly, although I laid in several flat stones so people and dogs can walk there, albeit carefully.

Here is an area that was a total eyesore when I got here- and of course this is one of those views anyone sees when they drive up to the house and walk to the front door. Nothing I can do about the propane tank, but I could fix up the hill behind. It was all eroding and most of the soil was under the tank. There where large clumps of grass and severely eroded areas between.Oh- and rocks, rocks, and more rocks of all sizes. Every time a horse walked up this area (which was every day) more soil came down. I have decided it is going to be an annual type garden - with it's amphitheatre shape it should be cool in a few years. I threw out cosmos seed and it is all coming up- but after my baby horse ran through it while tearing around the other night I stated placing large rocks around the edge. I also had to take out all the grass clumps, because I can't keep the horses out if there is grass in there. But your hill can have wonderful native grasses and flowers all together. Note the rock ledges creating planting areas. I have purposely let these be random, as it fills in it should be really nice. Some of those pockets of planting were made by a horse print:))

Kathy

Wow, Kathy, you have quite an area to landscape. Have you considered some trees? Pinon or blue spruce -- that horses don't like to eat? cholla cactus? though I am not sure horses object to cholla. Prickly pears? I don't think they like to eat prickly pears and they come with flowers in various colors. I know in Mexico sometimes them build fences by planting tall cactus all around the edges. In New Mexico, it would have to be cholla and prickly pear most likely. then you can grow flowers inside the cactus fence.
You have a big job ahead of you. Looks like you have a lot of acreage though -- enough that the horses can get up a full head of steam.
Wild flowers will be beautiful there.

Amy, great instructions...thank you for adding that! Never would have guessed about the builder's sand.

Betty, I didn't know either were native. No wonder my white daturas are doing so frightfully well!

Trisha, that would be awesome if you would share. Thank you, thank you. Such great suggestions. This year I will have an eye out for xeric shrubs at the DBG sale, that's for sure. Speaking of hellstrip--I just learned what that is last week while reading a new book about gardening in Colorado (not that they only exist here). But I've been learning all sorts of interesting things.
I'm writing all these suggestions down from everyone, so helpful!

Kathy, welcome to DG!! Wow you are making great headway on a tough challenge. Thank you so much for posting pictures. I love the rock garden, that's probably the look I'm going for...though with my budget will probably end up with fewer rocks. What is the gray plant to the left of the cute pup? Your land is absolutely gorgeous--what a view!

Speaking of budget and rocks, where would you all suggest I find rocks for this project? I know I could go to a rock supply place...but since the rockies are so rocky as dahlia put it, there has to be a better way, right? Since I'm not native, I feel extremely uncomfortable just 'acquiring' rocks not on my property. What are the laws regarding this?

Welcome to DG and the RM forum KathyCoRanch. Wow it looks like you have an ambitious project on the go!!

Lots of people would be offended if you took their rocks but sometimes the forest service issues permits for people to remove rocks. Why don't you call your local forest service office and ask for some.
I will confess that I have swiped rocks from highway right-a-way, but it is probably illegal. Still, the police don't seem to guard very carefully against rock theft. Don't tell anyone about it though.
Kathy, your rocks are lovely moss covered ones. The rest of us pay big bucks for such rocks.

Lol your secret's safe with me. I didn't think about calling the forest service. Good idea.

Yes- it seems a bit overwhelming some days- especially when someone has walked somewhere they shouldn't!
We do have prickly pear native and growing all over the place. I am really trying to stick with the native plants as much as possible, unless it is in one of my 'garden' areas. I moved from Phoenix and am very familiar with cholla- so no thanks- ever had one of those stick ya? I like the big rocks - although it is quite a workout moving them around.
I have already put in 65 young trees this spring too. Blue spruce and ponderosa pines. Horses don't like either, so far, but they do like to play with the little fences I have around them! I also have no irrigation system in place yet, so watering the trees is a big job- takes me about 4 hours to get them all with a bucket and hoses.
We had a great spring with lots of moisture and the flowers were spectacular! I have been crazy seed gathering for a few weeks now.

Kathy

Here is one of the spruces with new growth!

We can legally take rocks from public land including road right-of-ways if its not in a park or being used for erosion purposes. I boil the rocks in the roaster if I'm worried about invasive wildflowers in the area I find them. Road construction sites are good. I just walk up to the guy on the big machine and ask. My DH hates when I do this though. I ask for cool ones from farmers fields too. They are happy to get rid of them as they wreck the farm machinery. They look at me strangely though. Once the police stopped but they were just curious about what a lady with big leather gloves was doing in the ditch LOL

Thanks so much everyone! DG seems to be such a nice place!
Susanne- the gray plant is - (wait while I consult Weeds of the West- since all my flowers seem to be in there-LOL!) a fringed sagebrush. I have thousands of them all over. I would be happy to gather seeds for you or maybe we can try a transplant- but I have had mixed luck trying to transplant native wildflowers into my rocks. Might be easiest with the seeds. Do garden centers carry 'weeds'-LOL?

I love our rocks! Seems every rock on the place has lichens of all colors, and most of them have those little round cacti growing next to them. (I have had success transplanting those- as long as it is next to a rock.) I have been gathering them all summer- but carefully- as this area is known for teepee rings- which are the remnants of when the Cherokee lived here- they needed a large rock to anchor each of the teepee poles to, so they moved them where they needed them, and many are still there today. They are fairly distinctive once you know what to look for. 8 or 12 large rocks arranged equidistant in a circle, often we find the fire pit or a smaller storage ring adjacent. I have discovered at least 8 on our acreage, which of course sends me running to find rocks in another spot. (the teepee rings are protected by our CC&Rs) I know I took one rock out of one before I was told about them- so I went back and planted a blue spruce in the spot where the rock had been. I would have put the rock back, but I couldn't remember which one it was!

Kathy

BTW- this is my new favorite wildflower- Scarlet Gaura-I never had seen one before we moved here. Now I want it everywhere. Luckily- there are thousands of these too- and I have a whole zippy bag of seeds.

You are lucky to have teepee rings! I had never heard of them. Also the little round cacti are lovely in the spring when they bloom. Most people never notice them. And Guara is lovely. Sprinkle those seeds around and you will have lots soon. Even though blue flax isn't a native it is naturalized and would look great on your place. They use it on highway road cuts here to stop erosion. Not only does it help but it makes for a lovely blue field in the spring.
Dalhia, good idea about going to farmers and road crews for rocks! I had never thought of that! They are no doubt glad to get rid of them.

That is so cool cathy to have teepee rings.

I will try to find one that is obvious enough to photograph for you. It's funny, they come in so many different sizes.

Teepee rings + gaura = way cool. ^_^

Also, you were very smart to plant Ponderosa pine and Blue Spruce. Eventually all your carrying of water will pay off. But what will also pay off for you eventually is a good drip irrigation system. I know you already know that!

Hey Susanne,

If my guess from one of your photos is correct, you're also on the west side of Colorado Springs. Clay is vicious bad on this side of town, so unless there's been a ton of amending done, very few plants will live at all, much less thrive enough to fill in for you. There is also very likely a LOT of decomposed granite on your hill. If you know about "the scar" you understand the granite reference. If you dig down deep enough, you'll probably find lots of native granite rocks.

Here are some plants that are doing well in my west side yard that are on various lists for controlling erosion: creeping (moss) phlox, Carex, Miscanthus, sweet woodruff (I barely amended the soil, and it is AGGRESSIVE), Salvia, and Artemesia. I've read that it's really, really important to kill of the weeds, as these can make the erosion worse.

Cheers,
Karen

Oh I wrote a really long reply to you last night and then I accidentally hit the power button, sigh.
Anyway...Great to find someone else in CoSp!
I am in fact on the west side of town, how'd you know? I guess it doesn't exactly look like the east side. :) I'm just south of Rockrimmon, with a view of Ute Valley. Where abouts are you?

I know what you are saying about decomposed granite. I joke about excavating the rest of Garden of the Gods every time I dig up there, lol.
Thank you for all the great suggestions on plants. I have been looking for Carex locally forever. Every time I ask about it, I get 'No, we don't have Carrots, sweetie.' Boy I must really look like a dummy. Lol, then when I clarify, it always, 'No, never heard of it'. Have you found it around here? Anyhow, thank you for the tips and great to see someone else local to me around these parts...I've been on for 5 years and have never met anyone else active from the Springs. :) Susanne

Btw, I got your msg on the Co-op forum, and I think sharing shipping would be a great idea if it would save us some money. I'm looking to hit some end of summer sales soon, ya game?

Creeping phlox is gorgeous and is very popular here in Northern New Mexico. It might need a little water but is otherwise carefree and lovely in the spring. I bet it would look great on your hill. But so would pinon and blue spruce and even ponderosa pine - with just the tiniest bit of water for the latter two. None for the pinon.

art_n and k, you guys should get together when convenient. Roybird and I and Santa Fe Trails and I have really enjoyed knowing each other and sharing plants and tips and experiences. And think how close you both are to DBG. Karen you should definitely join there Rocky Mt. crowd there, though I will miss this year. It is always fun and enlightening.

This message was edited Jul 23, 2008 8:30 PM

Rereading your first message, art, I would create a sort of mini-terrace for each plant. Flatten its immediate area and place rocks around the edge so water will puddle there. Don't make the dip so deep that enough water will accumulate to wash the terrace and rocks away. It should be a shallow dip.
I would think that trees would really help. Or tough native bushes. Or even prickly pears and other cacti since people won't be walking there much. What you want is to hold the soil and create a nice visual setting for your more accessible gardens.

one of my big surprises this year was a big patch of self-seeded purple (homestead?) verbena growing in the sand between pavers in the rose garden. I had a few seed-grown plants near that spot last year, and it seems they spread a bit with the wind. If they can grow in almost pure sand, with little water, they are a keeper.

Paja, I think that's about the look I'm going to go for. Mini terraces so that I can level out the soil for a couple plants at a time. I like the idea of a little dig as a mini irrigation hole. The only problem about this hill is that it may not be accessible to me so well, but my two big dogs Simon and Zoe run up at the top on the flat portion and sometimes around and through the whole thing. There are already some prickly pears up there, which worries me but so far no poked paws. I agree though that is mainly an eyesore to my more tended gardens.
So as per yalls suggestions, I am thinking about putting in some baby pinon pines and some blue spruces. Kind of like the size that Kathy posted above. About how much should I look to pay for each? I don't want to get ripped off.

I love the homestead verbena. I have some in the front right now that has just taken off, it spreads so easily. Isn't it an annual though? I guess I just need a mix of perennials and reseeding annuals up there, so it doesn't really matter.

The trick would be to find small pinons and spruces so you won't have to pay so much. If you got them in a 1 gal. can I wouldn't think they would be much more than $10. I am not sure it is that easy to find the small ones though. Of course they both grow from seed. You could visit local public areas and collect pine cones and spruce seed, but it will take forever for them to grow.
Maybe you could find small trees from the Arbor Day foundation. They will give you 10 for joining and sell the rest cheap. I know people who have tried them. The plants are small but the price is right. I put tomato cages around things I don't want the dogs to break or eat or whatever. You might try that for the first few years. I get those collapsible square kind from Gardeners Supply. Also I use the pea fences in a somewhat futile attempt to keep the deer out of my fruit trees in the vacant lot.
http://www.arborday.org/trees/index.cfm ( you are about zone 6). Mugo pines are nice shrubs!
Just some thoughts.

Hey art_ next time you are at the DBG check out the alpine area and others. You just might get the jist of what they are doing in similar environments as yours. Those mini terraces are a great idea I think. I might be able to find some pics for you too.

This is a shrub called Spirea Anthony Waterer. I really like it. It does require some water, but I find it generally carefree. it might fit in nicely on your hill among a bunch of evergreens with a drip system. Like I said, it needs water, but not a whole lot.

It would be nice if I included the photo -- taken in my front yard.

o wow paj I thought 'Anthony Waterer' was a weigula not a spirea. Does it die back to the ground every year? Inquiring minds are all over this beauty.

As far as I know Anthony Waterer is a spirea. In Plant Files It dies back every winter, but not to the ground. Each year it grows a little taller. Here is its Plant File:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/558/

It is a very pleasant and simple plant to grow.

Thanks paj. WHOOOO HOOOO! I'm all over it now. I had it on my 'ya right, no chance in hoot even though you luv it' list. Now its been officially moved to my 'go baby go' list. ps I have many many lists ^_^