Milkweeds: How many and which ones are in your garden??!

Hi, Butterfliers!

Spring has sprung here and I'm gettting my host plants ready for the Butterfly season:

I have read on Monarch Watch (I think) that a patch of 20 milkweed plants is a good number for butterfly gardening.

I went out to count mine this week and realize that only 3 A. incarnatas came back this spring and my 3 A. tuberosas have yet to emerge (or maybe they won't)!

I do have seedlings from Wintersowing to plant--some curassavica, more encarnata, and some tuberosas which will help things along.

But I was wondering... how many Milkweeds are in your garden? And which kinds?

And is there a Monarch favorite among them?

Thanks so much for your comments! t.

FYI An interesting essays about growing milkweeds (especially for those of us in northern regions):

http://www.butterflysocietyofva.org/blank_page_2.htm



This message was edited May 19, 2008 5:33 AM

Those milkweeds!

My incarnata Ice Ballet is a total bust, although they will nectar on it. The milkweed moth loves it, though. :(

My Asclepias tuberosa didn't come back, either. Unless it moved a little bit and I don't recognize it as an early spring plant, which certainly could be the case. I hate Parks Seed! I ordered 3 of them for 21.00 which I think is a lot of money. They backordered it and I didn't receive them until late -- maybe August? They were teeny tiny 2" pots, so I basically lost an entire year, even if they did come back. And the jury is still out on that.

I have ONE red tropical milkweed from seed.

Sounds like I need 19 more. LOL! I am hesitant to sow more because of the aphids they attract. If the hummers were here, I would go ahead and sow more, but it looks like the hummers didn't care for my syrup-food. I had used the 1/4 c sugar to cup of water recipe, but then I read that somebody used a stonger sugar solution for the first wave of hummers...so they could warm up faster and be more likely to stick around. I used 1/3 c to 1 cup water and it dodn't go over too well. I saw them, but haven't seen any in 2 weeks or so. :((

Suzy

Hi, Illoquin,

Just a thought about the MWs. I understand the tuberosas don't show up from dormancy until very late spring/early summer, so maybe there is still hope on those. I started several tuberosas using WS but they are teeny-- if I can nurse them along through adolescence without killing them, I'll be happy to share them. I have tried them in the past but I think my soil was maybe too 'clayey' or didn't drain well enough. This time I'm picking a better spot for them (sunny and dry).

So too bad about the Park's order. You bought plants from Park's? Now why would you do that?! You are the queen of seed sowing and can do so much better than Park's plants! (At least in my humble opinion...)

Today we are building a new garden bed just for milkweeds in my most sunny garden spot. (Of course I'll end up putting other stuff there, too). And it's interesting that the 'Ice Ballet' Asclepias wasn't used by the monarchs. Maybe they can't see 'white'?...

Did I mention here that MWs (supposedly) are easily propagated using cuttings? I am trying it and it seems to be working. I just clipped off some stems from my incarnatas and stuck them into rich soil. They seem pretty happy there. A link about starting MW from cuttings: http://www.butterfliesetc.com/aamilkweedpropagation.php

Please don't get ))-: about the hummers! We usually have a nice number of hummers every summer and we have our feeders out now but they are being elusive here, too. I do think I have one nesting in the tree right in front of our picture window, though. At least they are busy doing something in there! Yet they don't come to the feeder that is just a few yards away. Of course, we gave up using most pesticides a few years ago, so there are some good bugs here. Ouch!

good morning :)
I'm trying to add to our milkweed collection too. I have read that monarchs favor egg laying on tropical milkweed (asclepias curassavica, bloodflower) which is not a perennial so it has to be planted each year. We only had a nice patch once and they did LOVE it, I would rank this #1, only I never checked to see how many eggs were layed on it...I got distracted by the aphids! I have direct sowed seeds to no avail the past few years and winter sowed some this year and have a pot full of seedlings to sow! yippie!

We also have swamp milkweed (asclepias incarnata) which I planted for the first time last year, and I forgot to check to see if it came back. I'll have to let you know if it did, I hope it did.

We have butterfly weed (asclepias tuberosa) but frankly I don't recall ever seeing activity from monarchs on it

Last, but not least, in fact I would rank this one as their second favorite: Common milkweed (asclepias syriaca). It does spread ~ I feel bad pulling up stalks that seem to pop up everywhere. We have a patch growing along with bronze fennel and a butterfly bush on one of our berms.

Some milkweeds I would like to add are: Purple milkweed (asclepias purpurascens) and I'm sure others....I forget what is available and need to look up a list

Thanks, wind, And how many of each would you say you are growing?

Just some FL commentary-

Asclepias currasavica is a perennial- at least here it is. This is 99% of my MW because it was so easy to propagate rather than buy new plants. As I trim back my MW when they eat it to sticks, I cut it into lengths and root it. Can you do that up there in the fall and grow them under lights until spring? Mine have leaves all winter here and just slow down their growth. It seems once your spring temps equal my winter temps they can go outside.

I have had a few plants of other types- Calotropis gigantea, a white native Asclepias, and I've tried to grow Ice Ballet and others without much success. Most of them require stratification which apparently I don't do very well yet. I do have some seedlings that I planted so long ago I don't remember which kind it was. Might have been incarnata.

Regarding aphids- can you get some Ladybugs? The people who make/sell mycogrow sell them http://naturescontrol.com/ I just squish mine. Whenever I have to buy MW, I'm glad to see thew aphids because I know that means it hasn't been sprayed.

I've got about 60 MW plants

Maggie



This message was edited May 19, 2008 10:04 AM

Thanks, m. With 60 plants you must have a hoard of Monarchs!

Yes, unfortunately, A. curassavica (aka tropical or mexican MW), although a Monarch favorite here, is grown as an annual and can't make it through our winters. Probably with a green house kept rather warm we could overwinter or start winter cuttings. I tried to overwinter it in my unheated garage with no success a couple of winters ago. Inside the house might work in a sunny window...

I've had to rely on Wintersowing my MW seeds, and that works OK for me although my plants aren't available to the monarchs until later in the summer season. (So I buy a few at the garden center to start out). A. incarnata 'Cinderella' seems to be a reliable returner for me, but I haven't had a lot of success with caterpillars surviving on it. Don't exactly know why except that I have loads of birds and a good number of wasps around that could be deadly for the little creatures.

You make a good point about the birds and wasps. Will you be bringing the cats in or letting nature take its' course? I read somewhere to plant larval plants in scattered small pods so as not to provide a main buffet table for the birds/wasps/(FL) lizards. Let me know how you do with the MW bed, Id love to do something like that. Wonder how the seeds would come out with a little cross breeding?

Maggie

Re: monarchs and A. Tuberosa:
I have only A Tuberosa, 3 plants started by wintersowing, now starting their 3ed year. The other day I found my first monarch cats, 8 on this plant, 2 on another.

Karen

hi margaran, I forgot that for other people in diff. zones that tropical milkweed would not be an annual like it is for us. You have a really nice size batch of milkweeds! I still have to go out and count ours. No where near what you have.

kqcrna, that is great to know ~ I wasn't sure because I have never seen any monarch activity on our A.Tuberosa...I can't believe you have m.cats already! lucky you :) I'll have to keep an eye out. I did notice the common milkweed is up and ready for them.

I just started planting milkweeds in 2006. I started out with A. tuberosa, started from seed (very easy from seed – no cold needed) I still have the original plants I managed to get planted and not kill. (This was only my second time starting seeds) That year I also ordered 1 swamp milkweed (thinking it would not do good for me, because I didn’t have a wet spot for it, but I figured I’d try it anyway, because it was pretty as far as milkweeds go.) Now I had also just moved into this house that year, and the former owners let the yard go wild. So there was a lot of the common milkweed growing. I knew my husband would mow it down so I diligently tried digging each and everyone of them up and put them in pots as a temporary home. This is when I discovered what this types roots do. Each plant, spread out across my ¾ acre lot was attached to each other by a root. So the point is the Monarchs were absolutely covering all the common milkweed, and the tuberosa was eaten down to stems. (They had only gotten about 6” tall at that time so it didn’t take much!) But there was no action on the swamp milkweed, except nectaring. I had so many monarch caterpillars and chrysalises to follow I was in my glory! You can only imagine – with it being my first time ever seeing a Monarch in person (that I could remember anyway). So last year ‘07’ I started an entire package of A. currassivica, a package of A. purpurascens and direct sowed all the seeds from my original swamp milkweed. (I thought maybe it was just because there was only one that it was overlooked.) Plus they are a good nectar source if nothing else and quite behaved for a milkweed. : ) I only got 3 seedlings from ws-ing the purple milkweed but I got a lot of swamps and tropical. Now this year things were much different. I never did get the common milkweeds in the ground (quite frankly I was scared to death of the stuff) ;) They did not make it in their pots, but I did have a few popping up around my mailbox and front pathway still. I was trying to eradicate them from just the front area, but it did not work due to the fact that their giant roots have made their way under the concrete slab that is the walkway. I would not mind them –if they were not in this spot, they get so ugly so quickly! Plus my DH complains when I let them grow and I get sick of hearing it lol. So anyway, this time I had a ton of those tussock moths that look like furry monarch cats. I still got monarchs but not as many, and this leads me to believe that they prefer the common one – darn it ! 8O I did see a few monarch cats on swamp milkweed (both years) so I wouldn’t write it off but it seemed to me only the large cats used it and it was when they had no others left to pick from :)
This year ‘08’ I tried starting A. purpurascens again – with much better results – I had good germination in a cell pack. So I’ll be adding those to the area where the ones from last year are. I will hopefully have a decent patch of the A incarnata (which by the way- does great in my dry sandy soil :) for anyone that is wondering) , I have a 9cell pack with A. tuberosa and 4-9 cell packs of A. currassivica.
My milkweeds all just starting popping out of the ground so if you haven’t I would go check again - maybe you’ll be pleasantly surprised to find them.
So totals for this year –
A.tuberosa – 17
A. incarnata – 13
A. purpurascens – 11
A. currasivica – 36
A. syriaca – 13
We will see what this year brings!
http://davesgarden.com/tools/journal/viewbycat.php?cat=42468

I just went and double checked and I have 6 - 9pks of he A. currassivica - so that total is actually 54

This message was edited May 19, 2008 10:23 PM

Wow, Meredith, I had no idea your garden was such a monarch haven! They must love it there!

And you have had excellent results from your MW seed too. Whatever you're doing with them must be the way to do it. Please give us some details on how you started the (non-tropical) seeds--for instance, did you cold stratify your seeds in the fridge as most packets recommend? And did you put your seed cell packs under lights and use bottom heat to get them started? Or just on the windowsill? I have read that some folks cold stratify MW seeds and others don't bother. And what was the source of your seeds? Were they really fresh?

I started MW incarnata and tuberosa seeds indoors under lights after some cold stratification and got limited results. I also Wintersowed both with so-so results. I have several tiny seedlings now and I'm wondering if they will ever get big enough to plant out. (And additionally I planted A. purpursense (?) in a flat and set the flat outside to germinate about two weeks ago. I wonder how that will do.)

I just purchased some Asclepias incarnata 'Ice Ballet' , A. tuberosa 'Gay Butterflies', and A. verticillata/'horsetail milkweed' seeds from J. L. Hudson, Seedsman and they arrived yesterday. And will give them a bit of cold stratification and then plant them under lights. From reading the seed packets it sounds like the germination is "Slow and Irregular"...mmmm....but you give me hope! I'm encouraged!

Please keep us posted on your Milkweed progress. Your report was very interesting! I'm going to 'tag' it for ready reference. Thanks! t.

tuberosa http://davesgarden.com/community/journals/viewentry/175874/ – seeds were a surprise from the swap; started in traditional flats with inserts and a dome cover; on top of my fridge no light no heat mat - and fridge does not get warm on top. However my dh keeps our woodstove going all winter and it is an average of 82 degrees during the day - in the living / kitchen area. So this is probably comparable to using a heat mat. Once they sprout I put them under lights. (Even if not all of them sprout.) Usually the ones that hadn't come along while the first are growing under lights. *This is how I started anything that did not need cold stratification. Also – both times I’ve started these they germinated without cold treatment. The first time I had bought a pack from Burpee at walmart.

currasivica – started on a heat mat; seed was collected from my garden and was stored in the fridge http://davesgarden.com/community/journals/viewentry/192340/

incarnata – I threw down the seeds in a nursery bed in Jan. or Feb. – now we are talking 100’s and I got about a dozen or so plants to come up, which will hopefully bloom this year which will be their second year, but I don’t know if they take 3? These would work well the same way I did the purpurascens, probably with better results.

purpurascens – started in the flats with a dome but put in an unheated room, when I saw sprouts I moved them to my new zip-up greenhouse, hoping I would not need to harden them off. This is my new WS-ing method, that has worked well for many things I’ve started this year. http://davesgarden.com/community/journals/viewentry/192385/

If I forgot any important details LMK.

I have been trying to get a big perennial garden of milkweeds, last year I thought I was planting the orange and pink milkweeds and they turned out to be annuals, well anyone that knows me I don’t plant many annuals so I didn’t save any seeds, my white milkweeds have come back up and that was the only one that I didn’t care if it came back :) So far I have 20 seedlings at least of the Asclepias incarnate (pink), purpurascens (purple) and tuberose(orange) but afraid the poor butterflys are in for a poor summer at my house because I only have about 4 mature plants of the purpurascens and three of the tuberose and the two white, I’m just sick because none of my butterfly weeds that I thought were perennials weren’t, the little seedlings will never make enough munchies for the butterflies this year they will be eaten before they get started :(

t, did you start your purpurascens yet? I think every one of mine germinated :)

We don't have anyone around here that sells milkweeds.



This message was edited May 20, 2008 11:07 AM

Well, LeBug, I think I'm jinxed!

No pupurascens have germinated yet. I put them in seed flats outside. Maybe I should have put them on the heat mat? LMK what you did.

I'll bring them in and put them on heat mats. I wish it would warm up here.

I had mine under lights I said I had the pink milkweed germinating but I don't guess this one needs cold I put it outside a few days ago since it's been cool here at night I just hope it germinates! Usually I start all of my milkweeds outside in the spring but just tried to start them under lights this year the pink one is the only one that didn't germinate so far but I have high hopes for it :)

Tab, if you didn't give those purpurascens cold treatment I don't think they will germinate : (

From Tom Clothiers site:

Asclepias amplexicaulis, hirtella, purpurascens, sullivanti, verticillata, and viridiflora , Sow at -4 to +4ºC (24-39ºF) for 12 wks, move to 20ºC (68ºF) for germination

Asclepias exaltata , incarnata, and tuberosa, Sow at -4 to +4ºC (24-39ºF) for 4 wks in moistened sand, move to 20ºC (68ºF) for germination

Asclepias fascicularis, physocarpa, and syriaca , Sow at 20ºC (68ºF), germination slow

Asclepias speciosa , Sow at 20ºC (68ºF), germinates in less than two wks

I just did a little search and found some useful info from the new england wildflower society :

A. purpurascens is a good noninvasive alternative to the Common Milkweed (A. syriaca) in the garden. It has similar leaves and flowers. Also (most importantly,) it said, A. speciosa is a similar western species. Now this was important to me because if they mean it is similar in the fact that it is non invasive - it would be a good one to start now, because it is the only one listed that doesn't need cold treatment. Besides tuberosa, but everyone lists that as needing it - I don't know why because both times It's germinated for me without cold. Good luck ladies : )

Meredith I didn't give my purpurascens cold treatment and they germinated :) The only nes that didn't was the pink and they are outside right now.

Here is a site that has them.
http://butterflyencounters.com/

Lebug - that is great! I am just wondering if thay aren't the species purpurascens and someone just labeled them purple? Only because every reference I've seen on them shows they need a minimum of 30 days cold stratification. Maybe you have a special touch though : ) Did you do one of those soaking and peroxide tricks? : )

Meredith, Thanks for all the details on the germination. I suppose the germination process makes sense since most of the MWs are natives to our temperate climates.

Meredith--LeBug's MWs were labeled A. 'purpurascens' from the seed company ('Northfield' or 'Northwoods', I forget the name right now). LeBug send me some in the original seed packet to try too.

There is something about having new seeds vs. old seeds on the germination of milkweeds, too. The older they are, the easier they germinate, or so it's said. The aging wears away the germination inhibitors... Or maybe cold treatment time is discretionary...just like Mother Nature!

I did read recently on a germination site that 10 days cold treatment was needed for most asclepias for good germination...seems to be some leeway...

I just went out to inspect the garden for MWs---I found 2 more returning ones growing in the garden--and I think one of them is a Curassavica. I have heard of them returning now and again up north, very interesting. I'll know for sure when it gets bigger.

And I looked into my seed flats and I have some teeny tiny green things in there, so I'm having some MW luck, I think! And I cut some more stems from mature plants to try to root them in the garden...I'll let you know if that works!

LeBug--if I see any nice fat MWs in the garden centers at a good price I'll send you a couple to tied you over . But it sounds like you have a lot of mature plants going already. Of course, you are in the monarch migration path so you probably need a lot more MW for monarchs than we do over here.

Does anyone grow "Honeyvine"? Apparently it's some kind of MW vine that is the favorite of monarchs in the Mississippi Valley. I think it's invasive.

Well that's good to know, it is not that unbelievable considering I've had the same experience with tuberosa seed. : )
I think where the seed came from has a lot to do with it too. If it comes from a plant that has lived in cold winters, it will probably need cold. While if the mother plant is in zone 9 it wouldn't make sense for it to need 30 days cold, they'd never germinate!

t, don't worry about getting plants I do have a few around just not where I want them lol I was planning on having a slew of them this year and it just didn't work out that way and made my bed a lot bigger for this years crop lol I still have parsley I'll just plant a bunch from WS that and I have my rue. which I saw a swallowtail lay eggs on the other day, I bet those poor butterflies are cold here right now, we have another day and night of cold then it starts to warm up, finally!

Thanks for the link Meredith :) I'm going to check it out. The purpurascens that I have outside right now I got in a trade a few years ago it takes them three years to flower, mine have flowered but have never given me any seeds, when I got the seeds before the person said they were rare and now I understand what they were talking about, I wish mine would give me seeds you never see any on here for trade, the plant is a lot different than a reg. milkweed the leaves are thicker with red veins, the plant is pretty :)

t, I'm not sure if I have the 'Honeyvine' or not, we have a wild milkweed vine here down at the cedar tree I've never looked at it to see if there were cats on it I'll have to keep an eye out for it this year it usually comes and goes before I notice it what makes me notice it is the dried pods when they burst open then I realize I have it lol I wonder how I can tell if it's the Honeyvine?

If you can post pics of the vine showing leaves, flowers, pods or such, I'm sure someone here can tell you if that is it. I don't have that one, but maybe someday I will. The Monarchs that come here don't lay eggs on the native MW vines we already have around in this area.

I'm wondering if the monarchs lay eggs on the ones I have here, I watch plants like that in my yard but haven't really looked at it's foliage just for cats of some sort, I've never seen any and only see the vine once in a while so I'll watch it more closely this summer and maybe by the time the pods come on I'll have a camera :) The thing is I never notice it until I see the opened seed pods then I see it's there :) The opened pods draw my attention.

I did a little google-ing about milkweed vines and it looks like some kinds can be very nasty plants--extremely invasive and not so good for the Monarch cats. They are found along roads, fence lines, abandoned fields, etc.

Here's the plant files write-up on Honeyvine:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/75/

It sounds like Milkweed/honeyvine might not be so valuable as a host plant for Monarchs in view of it's invasiveness and noxious weed designation.

Linda, do you have another kind of milkweed vine on your property?

Lebug if you want to grow the currassavica this year I could send you seeds. I have plenty left - even after sowing 6 packs of them lol. : ) They are annual but if you are worried you don't have large enough plants it will give you something else for the Monarchs when they eat up all the small plants.

Meredith, when will your home grown currassavicas start to bloom?

I don't have any records from last year, because I lost the hard drive on my old computer and nothing was backed up. So from memory, they started blooming around the same time as most other annuals I started. Zinnia, Mexican Sunflower, Licorice Mint, Hummingbird Sage. So they took about the same time to get to bloom as all those, unfortunately because I lost all my seed starting records I am not sure how early I started them or when they started blooming.

These are pictures from after I lost everything from earlier in the summer. It was taken 8/6/07 - I think they started sometime in July. They would have probably started earlier but I didn't get my plants in the ground until June 11, I remember that clearly because I spent the whole day gardening trying to get myself to go into labor and it worked because I had my daughter on the 13th! : )

Thanks Meredith, I have about 40 plants growing right now so when they get started that should be enough I don't want any annuals in my host gardens, I had that one last year though :) Aw, your daughter is going to be a year old pretty soon! They are so cute at that age, they change so fast!

Yep t, I don't think we need to grow milkweed vine, I know there is plenty of it here just wish I knew what kind it is, I'll check the link out and let you know when it starts to grow, I'll go down to the cedar tree and see if it's started yet I doubt that it's started this early.

t, I checked that link out and no one talks about having monarch cats on them did you notice that? They just talk about the vine attracting them. I'm going to watch for mine this year and see what is up with it :) I looked but don't see it yet but it's early yet, seems like it's way later in the summer when I see the pods opening up.

Yes, I noticed when I googled that many posters around the web said they hadn't seen cats on the honeyvine.

Some mentioned that it was a host plant of the 'last resort'. (If there are no other choices the monarch will go for it).

But I did read on a 'scientific' site a couple of months ago that in Missouri it was the preferred native host plant of the monarchs.... (that surprised me but maybe they didn't know what they were talking about!) That's when I became interested in the honeyvine--and started asking about it. Sounds like it's not worth the trouble of having it in the garden though...I will be interested in your reports.

Meredith--sounds like you are quite a proactive butterfly gardener if you were out there at nine months preg. worrying about your butterfly garden! What a bundle of energy you must be!

Thanks for your recollection of the bloom time. I just wondered if you had to wait for bloom until September, but it sounds like they are right in there with all the other butterlfy nectar plants blooming in high summer. That's encouraging!

I have more Asclepias seeds germinating every day. Now up to thirty sprouts. I read that A. currassavica takes 90 days to bloom.

When I looked up the stratification issues, by the way, Hardy Perennials was recommending putting hot water on the A. seeds, sowing them, and then putting them in the fridge if your didn't get germination after 10 days or so. Interesting that everyone as their own methods. Sometimes I think the web can start of sort of 'rumor' or 'myth' about something and then people start to take it as gospel truth!

This is one of the milkweed vines that grow around here. I encourage it mainly because I think the flowers are cute. It has stiff hairs on the stem and leaves, which I would think wouldn't appeal to cats. I recently saw a Monarch cat on a milkweed vine that I saw in another area of Texas, but don't know if it was Honeyvine.

Hi, Linda, your vine is very pretty. Thanks for posting it. I like the green flowers, too.

I looked up the Texas Monarch Watch site and apparently there are quite a few milkweed vines listed for the state. It didn't indicate any vines that were of particular interest to the Monarchs though....

I tried starting scarlet milkweed from seed in April but got no go. I only have a few A. tuberosas and incarnatas at this time. I have a bunch of phlox and yarrows, though, and Lady's mantle. The BFs seem to like these plants, as well.

Okay lebug, just thought I'd offer. What I plan to do is to stagger the annual milkweed with the perennial ones, so that they fill in for the first year, while the perennial ones get established. That way there isn't a big gap of small seedlings, eaten down to stems. : ) In the picture I posted, you wouldn't know it but there was A. tuberosa growing inbetween those. It worked out well because all the tuberosa are back and should fill in nicely this year, being they are 3 year old plants now. : )

Yes Tab, I am slightly obsessed about the butterfly gardening. Just like it seems you've become : ) I also knew that once that baby came, my other babies would be left to die in their flats. I knew I could not count on anyone else to take care of them and plant them, so that motivated me to 'get r done' ; )

Tab, That honey vine is awful and I've never seen a cat on it. DO NOT plant it is my sage advice!

The annual milkweeds grow very, very fast, so if you have seed, get it sown! Yours will bloom in plenty of time if you start them soon. I did a germination test on some from a trader I wasn't too sure about and they germinated quickly, and even in late Sept, they grew very fast.

Ice Ballet is a bust for all butterflies, but the milkweed moth likes them just fine. Too bad it is a pest. By bust, I meant that it wasn't used as a host at all, and was hardly even visited as a nectar plant.

Suzy

This message was edited Jun 1, 2008 1:39 AM

Thanks, Illoquin. I won't be planting the honey vine. I have several other milkweed plants ready to go into the garden -- curassavica, tuberosas and incarnatas . Several came back from last year too.

The good news is we had 12 trees removed last week (what a mess) and I now have a little more sunshine in the back yard and more space for butterfly plants!

Oh that's great! That's what we did two summers ago, it is a lot of work to get the yard cleaned up after though. We still haven't finished.