People with sick chicks from McMurray

Kathy Ann did he give you an idea when he expected the test results back?

MollyD

3days but he then said he'd mail the results to me, so it may be longer.

meanwhile, i hope your chicks staart feeling better!

Happy Birthday Silkiechick!

Kathy Ann I hope your chicks respond to the things he suggested.

MollyD

Well, Not sure if this is a response or not.

I didn't take all 7 sick ones up to the vet, Dh wouldn't let me, I took the sickest 4. out of the other 3 sick ones, 2 are on their feet walking around, one is still making an effort. she was I though t a gonner,

but thinking other wise now,

no more have dropped down sick, before I was having at least one a day show sickness signs. they all look good in the regular chick pen so I think it's starting to work already.

I bought some new chick feed today, 20 pounds instead of 50 hope to put them back on regular chick feed sunday.

wonder if it would be ok to keep them on the vitamin water longer than 5 days? would it hurt them? cause I'll have plenty to last longer than that of the powder.

hmmm, i would just do the five days like he said. then give them a break, and do it again later if he says.

how old are they now?

hope the other's pull through, and you get good news!

when folks get results, or if you need state contact info, please see this other DG poultry link:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/826385/

thanks,
tf

thanks

My chicks seem to be doing better. I had two that got sick w/in a week of getting
them on 3/3. One died and over the next two weeks a few more seemed to be
wobbly. It's now a bit over 4wks and sickly ones are looking peppier and the one
that was very sick is standing on her feet, full up. She's still a lot smaller than the
rest but I'm thinking we've gone through the worst here.

I spent a bit more time on backyard chickens board (link at start of this thread). Folks
are discussing the conflicting information quite a bit and the moderator had to step in
to cool things off a bit. But the range of advice matches that here.

Most folks are interpretting the literature as indicating that it may be for economic
reasons that you would destroy the chicks. Since most of mine were not symptomatic,
I think that most had immunity from their mother. The sickly ones may not be productive
but they'll be cute none-the-less.

Tam

Here's a picture of the little girl that's been sick. She's the
smaller whitish/grey girl in the center. I'm going to have to
wait for them to grow up to figure out which is which. we
order quite a variety of breeds. (If you know what breed she
is, I'd love to hear!)

Tam

i'm clueless what the cutie may be! ;-) how many do you have? are her mates in there the same age? glad you only lost three, someohow i thought you had lost nine? you rchicks sure look well cared for...

They are cute, and they do look healthy too, Is that an orange slice? That's a neat idea if it is. Vitamin c why didn't I think of that DUH!!

And you have a little dowel there for them to roost on, another neat idea. I have to find something to put in my brooder for them to perch on, when they get a tad older they start perching on the water container LOL.

Ok, I"m off to the brooder to bring my babies some orange slices.

Can chicks see in the dark? i'ts getting pretty warm here during the day and I notice they all run from the heat lamp during the day and rest far away from it, so I could turn it off , but it would be black as night in there.

I just got this from someone on the a local forum about organic farming etc They just received this back from McMurray and asked everyone to cross post it.



This is an unedited email from McMurray. Please cross post.

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucien A (Bud) Wood
To: turkeyhill
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:24 PM
Subject: McMurray hatchery


Thank you for your email.


Most of your question are answered in the statement below. Turkeys and Pheasants are grown and hatched in separate facilities from the chickens and are there for not affected.


If you have any additional question please contact us.


Avian Encephalomyelitis (AE) is passed from the infected hen (the only symptom being a drop in egg production) through the egg into the chick. Chicks from infected hens display AE symptoms within two to three weeks of age. Those chicks are infectious and should be quarantined until well after symptoms are no longer displayed. All equipment and housing should be disinfected and litter disposed of properly. Surviving chicks will be immune to AE in the future, will not shed the virus, and will pass this immunity on to their offspring.
In February one of our larger breeder flocks had a well water quality problem. We took corrective action and treated the well water. There was also a reduction in egg production as well as poor hatchability at that time. We falsely diagnosed the egg production problem as being water related. A few weeks ago we had reports of mortality in some birds and recently we have had a confirmed report of AE, for which our flocks had been vaccinated. As you can imagine this left us in a quandary as to how this could have happened.

By consulting with veterinarians we confirmed that AE runs it course in adult birds for 1 to 2 weeks and the surviving birds are immune. That period of time has elapsed; eggs and chicks from our now immune breeding flocks will not be infected.

We are sorry for any inconvenience and problems caused and thank you so very much for your patience and understanding of this most trying time for McMurray Hatchery. Just as we done for the last 90 years you can again expect the same high quality chicks in all future orders.

Thank you Lora, for posting that email.

I respect MMH for admitting it. Has anyone else been notified?

Kathy Ann: When our chicks stayed away from the heat lamp I was told to raise the heat lamp a couple inches. It worked and the little ones would gather in the middle again under the heat lamp at night. They remained active and ate well. We also started to give them torn lettuce and yoghurt... some of them got a little pasty butt maybe from the variation in the heat or something. I washed all their little butts and airdried them with a cool hair dryer held several inches away so it didn't get too warm. It worked...at least I didn't have to diaper them! ;-)

LOL, that would be a hoot , having to diaper them I have a few with pasty buts too, guess I need to raise my light some, thanks for the help


and thanks for posting that info about mcmurray

well, that is great news!

This is sounding very good.

Yes - I am giving them orange slices. I just bought a big bag
on sale on the way home. (I tested yesterday to see if they would
eat them and they LOVE them).

My DH put the perches in for them after I read about the idea
somewhere on my travels on the internet searching for info on
AE. The first one seems to be too low but the second one (maybe 6"
off the ground) is a big hit.

And the one little chick that was hit by the *I assume* AE is the last
of her type. There were two or three but they died.

I got a total of 35 chicks. In all, 10 died. The first 1 died the first
night (Mon night), 2-3 died overnight, 4 died on Tues or Tues night.
The two that died after that lasted about a week and then first one
and then the other got really wobbly, couldn't stand, didn't eat much
etc until they fell over on their sides and died. So I don't know if I
lost more than 2 to the *I assume* AE or if some of the first 8 also
died of this. (They were in the same position as the later deaths).

We got a refund for the first 8 at the price of the most expensive one
we ordered.

And since the photo was a hit (I think) here's another one.

Tam

Hey there. Haven't posted here before, but wanted to say Thank you to Maineiac regarding post on BYC. I decided to give this board a try after having similar issues with moderation that you did. Your posts were completely justified over there. I am more of a find the problem, freedom of speech type of person myself.

Our chicks were diagnosed with AE by the way. It was turned in the the board of animal health and the hatchery. I have found a great new hatchery to use here in MN to get the types of chicks I want and they are completely unaffiliated with MM. This experience has certainly been an eye-opener. So far, we've lost after 40-50 chicks.

What hatchery is that MNKris?

thanks MNKris, for your perseverance and for coming over to Dave's!

i myself am cynical about that email. there is no tcontact info, and the information is skeptical at best... there is no company comment in the GWD, but a couple of new postivie comments...

so, IMHO, i will take it with a grain of salt [for added flavor], and proceed with assisting anyone in Texs who needs testing done for suspected AE chicks. remember, your survivors that seem stunted are the best candidates for carriers, those should be tested...

tf

Well TamaraFaye--you are a very suspicious, cynical person to doubt that email:o)! I wondered too why only one person reported getting it. It is a very nice email and just what one hopes they would send. But why to only one person? I am feeling suspicious and cynical myself....Anyone else heard from MMH?

Well, here's the funny thing. The one "reported case" they talk about, if the email is true, would be from my test and them talking to the VDL here in MN. The email was posted on the other board and I said I thought it was funny that other people are receiving that email, and me, the person who owned the chicks in the report had received nothing, not a thank you, not an email, not a phone call. The post then got locked over there because of perceived hatchery bashing. Oh well. I guess it is water under the bridge. A person has to do what they feel is right. I can't believe all the incorrect info that started flying around regarding symptoms and prognosis. I have really learned a lot about hatcheries, poultry, etc. through this whole experience and it pushed me out of my comfort zone to look at alternative methods to get baby chicks. I have always looked to private breeders, but I have been fortunate enough to find a local hatchery about an hour away, very small, but seemingly very accomodating that will help replace the breeds that were wiped out. I always kept all chicks separate for the first few weeks, but I never REALLY took it seriously. I am a bleach fanatic, but maybe a little lax on true separation. I mean, when I say separate, I had separate brooders, but they were in the same room. Luckily, I had converted one of our hen house rooms recently to have two new brooders in it and that is where these hatchery chicks were put (one for standards, one for bantams), away from any other chicks I had at the time. I was lucky, maybe not as diligent as I should have been. I am sitting on some very expensive Black Copper and Wheaton Marans chicks. To lose those would have devasted me. i also learned about brooder flocks, vaccination procedures, etc. at hatcheries. What a wake up call and a true lesson learned.

MNKris, I would like to know what hatchery you were talking about in MN. We are always looking for hatcheries that can ship to us within a day's shipping.

Thank you,
Kathy

It's called Braus Hatchery and it is in Brainerd, MN. I don't have the flyer in front of me, so I can't remember if they have a website or not. I just called them and talked to the owner. Very friendly!

Thank you, I'll google them.

:) Kathy

Those of you ordering day old chicks. Ask that they be shipped NLT Wednesdays. McMurray ships chicks hatched on thurs the next day: fri. which means the chicks reach the central USPS processing ctr and sit there in their cramped little boxes w/o food or drink until they are delivered by truck to your local PO early Mon. Some of them go for 3 days or more. It's no wonder they might be weak.

Gee, can we be best friends now? LOL. Glad you have learned so much and also helped others, at least given them the OPPORTUNITY to learn. That is what we do with life's tests, we either learn something new, or we get tesetd again later it seems.

Through this experience, I am now leaning towards becoming a certified poultry technician. There is NO poultry person anywhere in the upper counties of the Texas Panhandle, and there should be. So, will be looking into that next week.

You are not the only lucky one about not losing your precious flocks. MMH should consider themselves fortunate as well. There is no class action law suit against them YET.

I have also contacted our local news so they can do a story on local poultry breeders. And all the feed stores that have chicks around here know where NOT to get them. Our AHC highly recommends getting your chicks from in the state.

Lets keep this thread and info going on. There is no bashing or meanness here. Just folks helping one another, that is what it's all about ;-)

tf

Ummm, Victoria, they don't need food or drink right away, that's what the yolk is for. Also, I've never waited over three days for any chicks. AND, the boxes are made that way to keep them warm.

MM told me their shipped 2 days in the mail at the max. shipped the day their born, and too the yolk gives them plenty of nutrition to make the trip.

Mine took 3 days to ship! I think thats why I had a few casualties in the first 48 hours.

no, shipping of healthy chicks does not cause normal causualties, or it would not be allowed by the animal rights activists.

if you have ever hatched out chicks yourself, you know that the first 48 hours they pretty much just sleep. like human babies.

3 days is plenty of time. the box is designed for proper ventilation, and there are always enough chicks in each section to keep warm from body heat. the only casualties are if they pile into the corner, one might get squashed.

i am not trying to discourage shipping of healthy chicks. rather, encourage purchase of chicks from better known sources. buyer beware. do your homework. know what/who/where. know the laws. and support smaller breeders and hatcheries who work hard and care about quality.

tf

we have a great supplier now. out of many shipments I think we've only had one chick that was dead and that was a while ago. They ship on Sundays so that you get on Monday, Tuesday at the latest. I believe they also have a Wednesday ship day.

:) Kathy

Welcome aboard MNKris! I am allowed back on BYC now but haven't felt the urge to go there yet. These are my friends right here.

i hate to say we told you so, but guess which hatchery was lined up for the April banner ad at BYC? Yes MMH... i am so grateful for the way Dave habdles advertisers..

truest & kathy_ann, any word on your test results?

Nothing yet. sorry.

WEll, I just got the results back in the mail. I 'm not really sure what's the outcome, .

it kind of looks like a severe calcium deficiency, no encephalamalacia or encephalamitis

there's two pages.

First page reads:


Nicropsy findings: Three l5 day old chicks were submitted with a history of leg problem. Necropsy exam and fecal smears did not reveal coccididosis . Their bones were soft and rubbery. All had feed in the gizzard. No worms. and no other gross lesions were noted.
Suspect calcium deficiency.



No bacteria in the brain or liver, no salmonella

Page two.

Comment: the bones are unremarkable. Two of the 3 brains have slight perivascular lymphoid inflamation around a few vessels in the brainstem only. One has rare scattered monoclear cell foci in the cerebellar molecular layer in the folia. There is no sign of encephalamalacia

This is all it says. It didn't really say they did the encephalamalitis test or not. But they did say that that's what they were going to do .

I guess I should call them and ask if the y did the AE test or not.

I know that all chicks are back to normal now, and the second batch I got never got sick at all. They are all both sizes, flying over the separator into each other's pen now, I do give them yogurt and orange slices now, and regular chick feed and water daily. They all seem really healthy No losses since I took those 4 in to be tested.

So I guess, all well that ends well LOL

Hi kathy_ann. Good news! I know my blue jay chick ended up with permanently crooked legs because I fed him a diet too low in calcium. It sounds like yours will be fine because you caught it early. It would be good to know if they did the test for AE--some of the remarks on brain pathology sound a little suspect--although we all probably have "slight perivascular lymphoid inflamation around our brainstem" occasionally. I know I had "rare scattered monoclear cell foci in the cerebellar molecular layer in the folia" last week. Just ask my DH:-).