People with sick chicks from McMurray

The other confirmed AE case was from Brett on BYC.

i thought it was 2 but i can't remember the first posters id. let me see if i can find it. i thought the one today was the second one.

yep that was who it was, if i remember right he was the PA person. woops we posted same time,lol. there was a few others to do tests or going to i've not seen reports back yet.

This message was edited Mar 24, 2008 3:28 PM

There has been another confirmed AE diagnosis from chickncrazy on BYC (tally count is now 3 results, with several chicks being confirmed in each case). It certainly seems to be bad news for those of us with affected chicks. =(

i spoke at length with my poultry tester from Texas Dept of Animal Health, and have to DISAGREE...

NO, it is not the USDA that you need to contact. And you don't need proof first.
YES, in some states it won't be reportable.
YES, you should report it anyway. not being reportable is a sort of legal/political term.
YES, you should get the birds tested.


Each state has to handle this on its own first of all. Contact your State Animal Health Department. look up in phone book or internet, it is toll free. press zero and ask to speak to person in charge of reportable Avian diseases. IF you have to leave a message, after doing so, press zero and ask for someone who is in. Do this until you finally talk to a DR so-and-so. Then explain YOUR chick situation calmly and slowly so they can take notes. They will have to look up info and get back to you. They can arrange to have tests done, or tell you what lab to go to.

It is helpful if you were able to get a vet to test or diagnose your chick. But your state animal health department has it's own lab [at least one] where they can test chicks, and better to test them while still not dead yet. Once the state has their own test done, they can decided whether to "report" to the USDA. After several states have done this, then they will decide if further action is needed.

So, you see, EACH ONE that has rec'd sick or dead chicks should write down notes. What happened/when/symptoms/approximate numbers. EACH ONE needs to make a phone call. EACH STATE needs to make it's own determination.

None of this will happen without YOU, the individual, taking the time to do what is right, REPORT it. Then let each state do it's thing.

Please, do the right thing. None of these posts here are official. They are helping others, but they are not getting the info to the proper authorities.

I am waiting to hear back from Austin. Anyone who wants help reporting in Texas may dmail me for details.

very sincerely,
tamara

I need to have some id's of my sick ones so I can tell them which ones are sick now and which ones I lost.

here's what I bought

araucana
golden laced wyandotte
partridge rock
light brahmas
silver laced wyandotte
speckled sussex
black astralorp
columbian wyandotte


I lost quite a few that had the dark brown stripes on their backs, nO photos of these. they look almost like the welsummers that I have just recently purchased. But I didn't buy welsummers from MMH

#1 photo

i think that is a partridge rock.

#2

SLW, or perhaps a Privett Black Australorp [j/k!]

#3 and I hav eanother one of these showing sickness signs that's in the same area with the others that aren't quarantined.

another, not a goodpic, bu tthere's not much coloring on this chick,

#4

This message was edited Mar 24, 2008 4:08 PM

i think #3 is a light brahma, maybe 4 is the sussex? i have no clue. but regardless of the breeds, just get in contact with your state animal health department so they can tell you where to take the chicks for testing. cut out the middle man and go straight to the state lab.

they are so beuatiful, but i am very grateful you did not mix them in with your current flock.

tf

Group shot of # 4 and # 1 and the #5th one. that looks alot like# 1 but has diff markings on it's head.


and those ones with the brown stripes onthe back and light brown body? which are those out of all those breeds I listed? I'll see if I cango take a picture of one that looks like those brown striped ones


Also, it looks like i'm goin g to have to pay a vet to do this testing, DH probably won't let me do it if I have to pay. He's not seeing the big picture here as folks here see it, He's not working steady and doesn't want to spend any more money than we have to.

I talked to the state poultry ?? forget what they called themselves. and she said she'd have a vet call me. If I have to have a vet do it, I probably would just use mine, depending on the cost .

I have 7 or 8 I could quarantine , but have only these 5 quarantined right now.

What are you talking about LOL I did mix them with my current flock, I stuck two of the sick ones in with the new babies thinking they just got squashed, but they have the 2 babies had the same symptoms as all the rest that are sick from MMH, I also put my new babies on the same bedding as the chicks from MMH there's a divider board between the two of them. So they've walked on poop from the MM birds. I was stupid I know, i've never dealt with any kind of chicken sickness before.

my new babies, are welsummers and cockoo marans and Rhode island reds.

babies in the front are MMH babies , babies in the back are new babies bought elsewhere. babies in the front use to have the whole room, put a divider up and put the new babies onthe same bedding. Yes, go ahead and call me dumb LOL

here are the babies in the back, they were too tiny or I would have just stuck them in with the others. I'll never make these mistakes again, Sometimes we just have to learn the hardway I guess. I have no good teacher either. Should have come here first and asked questions.

you really should use the state vet. because of the situation it may not cost you anything once this is all said and done. someitmes it is easier to get forgiveness from DH [esp if you are RIGHT] then permission. mine is a cheap skate [and i love him for it]. but he actually pushed me into spending more time on the phone and internet to help people get the ball rolling in their respective states.

just go to the state vet, or his lab, or if they will come to you that would be great. not like your state is HUGE lol...

please remember to recall the symptoms, and to state that "i have a friend in such and such state whose chicks had the same symptoms, came from the same hatchery, and theirs were tested positive for AE" this way they get a move on testing yours instead of assuming you just have weak chickens because you don't know how to care for them... a VERY common assumption...

i will look at the last picture, did you see my posts to ID the first ones?

Ok, well, that's the guy that's going to be calling me , the state vet. so I'll wait to hear from him.

yes, saw your posts to id the first ones, thanks

Someone tell me the names and states those 3 confirmed cases are in ok.

thanks

OK, we cross posted again. i think i am caught up.

i won't call you dumb, not even ignorant! just trusting, and sometimes that just doens't work out in these situations. people who are trusting that a company with good customer service is going to do the right thing need to remember that the almighty dollar pays for those great considerate phone reps... and the sooner they make people happy by refudning money, the sooner they can shut this thread down through lack of interest...

sooooo, kathy. tell them how many chicks you have. the vet ought to come out. the STATE's vet. they need to understand that MMH one's got sick first, and how many died, and how long after that others showed symptoms etc. once they are past four weeks and asymptomatic and THRIVING, they are OK, but carriers. so the vet can decided who needs necropsied, who needs vaccinated, who needs tested, etc... and he can't do that without seeing all of them, and they can't expect you to transport that many when they obviously need heat!

i hope you are OK with the fact you may lose all your chicks. hopefully not. i am praying not. but we have to be realistic and nip this virus in the butt...

maybe i am so outspoken just because i have nothing to lose. i haven't ordered from a hatchery, but was about to. now i won't be adding anything new to my flock. my state guy usually comes in the fall, but he is coming next week at my request, for pullorum testing of some new pullets. then chicks will be old enough for testing in the fall.

he said, once you have your own flock established and tested, you can have more assurance of healthy birds by hatching out you own. he is more ocncerned with outside birds, esp any from out of state. he also said that Ideal has not had any health problems. so as long as the chicks you order from there are ACTUALLY coming from Ideal [hatcheries often ship for each other], chicks should be OK...

tf

WEll, as my DH says, his fave words "we'll just start over " LOL

If I loose them then I do. I've been refunded for all the chicks from MM won't be out that money, just the money for the next 30. eye yi yi!!!

WOO HOO! guess what. vet just called, he's one of the vets that does the testing for AE for the state. I'm bringing them to him. Tomorrow. 2 or 3 sick ones, we'llknow in 3 days after that.

I'll ask him tomorrow what happens if it is AE

I'll have my receipt from MM and the breeds that are sick, and 3 of my sickest or should I bring all the sick ones. I did tell him already what they are doing as far as their sickness. told him about the 3 other confirmed cases all received their chicks the same time period as I did.

If I loose the second batch, I will be calling MM back, I can't imagine them not refunding those too even if I didn't purchase them there, what are they going to do if their chicks caused the death of my others.

anyways. I have to go feed the cows......

I haven't let my grown chikens out since all this has happened, and I haven't been the one that takes care of them either, I've not been in their pen, someone else in the family has gone out to take care of them. I'm not willing to loose my big girls.....

Will the state come out and take all my birds if they have AE?

notes from my phone call with our state... Dr. Schwartz

"reportable means once a diagnosis is made, it is law that it be reported to the state. AE is not on the list of reportable diseases, and we need to stay within these guidelines.

Our governor has a board of commisioners, and one of those is the poultry commissioner... if new laws needed to be made and put into effect, it would be through him...

every one who has lost chicks needs first to try to get their money back..."

and after really pushing for an answer of what CAN be done, instead of what cannot, i finally got this...

"contact state hatchery is in..."

i don't think they would in TExas, since it isn't considered "reportable". worst case they would just take all your chicks. not the big girls, they can see they are separate. MM should reimburse you for infected ones later when you have proof.

based on what Dr. Schwartz told me, you should take ALL chicks with symptoms. they are going to be looking at percent loss, percent affected, etc.

anyone who got a first shipment all or half dead should report those too. then if in a second shipment you lost 1/3 right away, and half the rest later. anything higher than 10% is too much IMHO. and the reports i have seen on here are WAY high.

so, take as many as you can. they will keep each other warm in the box.

don't forget to post your state contact info on the other thread. i need to go fix the link for mine.

great job Kathy! pat you on the back, girl!

I went out and culled the other two sick ones I'll be bringing all 7 of them tomorrow, I might as well, Ihave no hopes for them. I can't bring a sick chick back to life regardless of what the sickness is.

anyways, here's the photos, one looks like the silver laced wyandotte, I can't tell the diff between the chicks of the silver laced wyandotte and the columbian wyandotte though.

This chick, is the only one out there that looks like this. so it may be a freebee. I do have one healthy white chick outthere, they only said they gave me one rare breed free, so I have no idea what the white one is and this one pictured here.

their all the same age, so they shouldn't be that different. but this one is different.

# 6

liekly, since the sick ones spread it to the others, and you get a second cycle of sickness and death at around 3 weeks of age, you should take all the MM chicks in... and tell the vet how many chicks have been exposed.

remember it is spread in their poo, which gets in their feed and water.

please emphasize the symptoms. cocciodosis is bad this year, in TX anyhow, due to the weather patterns. you want to be clear on what they are testing for beforehand...

such pretty chicks ;-(

here's another sick one # 7 that looks like a silver laced wyandotte.

Also, I'd love to be able to bring that doc names and states of those other confirmed cases and perhaps the date that they received their chicks. varieties of their chicks would probably be too much to ask LOL I'm going to go searching the past threads on that other forum to seeif I can find some of this info myself.

I'm pooped........
#7

Why should I sentance my chicks to death if they don't have AE? I send all them down there their gonna be killed by this doc. I'm just trying to see the point of sending the non sick ones down there too.

Someof them out there litterally attack me when I walk out there, I'll take those down there LOL just kiddin. their so tiny but some are already so mean. I think their astrolorp or aurocanas, their solid black ones that are mean.

anyways. I'm goin g to talk to DH tonight, he's already said he wasn't going to buy the teramiacin cause it would be a waste till we know for sure what we're dealing with. If their confirmed AE, I don't think we'll have a bit of trouble disposing of all of them, evn the 30 new ones. but i'm gonna cross that bridge in 3 days.

kathy, maybe you could start a thread for posting those numbers? and then copy info over and ask folks to confirm or change it? too much work, i know, but this will all be over soon....

ATTN TEXAS FOLKS:

The state is finally listening. If you will contact me with your information, i can arrange voluntary testing by state and US authorities based on the numbers that you provide. I need to know your location and your phone number, the total # chicks, total dead, total sick.

If this weren't such a serious situation, i would be doing the happy dance for finally getting a simple way to report this.

thanks for cooperating and doing the right thing. there will be no losses except the sick chicks... hopefully no more lost $ either.

tamara

What numbers? I'm sorry, it's been such a long day.

#7 looks like a columbian wyandotte - it isn't a SLW.

I just called to cancel my order with MM. One of the owners of the company called me. He was very nice and said he feels confident that they are healthy now. I asked if he could promiss and he said no. So I cancelled. Any suggestions on another hatchery?

Tamara, I misunderstood, you just meant bring all the sick ones up there, not all healthy and sick.

I am going to bring all 7 unhealthy chicks up there tomorrow.

i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if u have 1 sick bird with AE all have been exposed or potential to be cause it is a contagous virus. unless u are useing strict biosecurity measures any birds on the property r at risk u will have to watch ur adult flocks or outside flocks as well. if they were in the brooder together at all they have had contact with it weather they origionated from there or another source. just because they don't show signs does not mean they have not been exposed to it or can't develope it. i know from the time an adult layer has it any eggs laid in 10 day span can spread to baby when hatched. i do not know how long it is transferable between adult to adult, baby to baby, baby to adult ect. i have not found that answer anywhere.

since there is more confirmed cases i will be contacting the pa dept of ag since i know at least one case is here and i will talk to the state vet and i will let u know what i find out and keep u posted.
silkie

After reading today's postings we have decided to cancel our order with McM and order from another local hatchery. I was hesitant because we wanted the heritage turkeys but the more we thought about it, the less practical it appeared to order from a potentially "dangerous" hatchery...even one that has had years of providing healthy stock to many people. Our girls are very healthy and very productive so it isn't something we want to risk. Thank you to all of you who have alerted the rest of us to the problem. I plan on keeping tabs on the results of your situation even if we have determined not to purchase from McM. My heart goes out to all of you who have lost the precious little ones and our prayers will continue for those of you in the middle of it all.

I realize that IF they have AE their all going to die. If they don't, they don't hav eto die. If they all have AE then I"d want them to be dead.

I'll ask the doctor what he has to say about the grown chickens . If I have to start over, then so be it. I do have another coop that hasn't had chickens in it for 2 years, and I can start over in that coop instead of using these other coops.


I'll know in 3 days

I cannot imagine. I feel so bad for everyone that got infected chicks. We went through a case of Fowl Pox last year and that was bad enough, this sounds so much worse. This has got to be a nightmare for everyone involved, it is so sad to read this post. I hope this gets resolved soon, but I know it will take time so hang in there everyone.

kathy, from what you have told me, your two year olds are not at risk because you have taken care of the chicks and someone else has taken care of the adults. just keep your biosecurity that way for now.

we'll be thinking of you tomorrow and praying for quick results from the tests.

jcomy, a SAFE source for heritage turkeys [confirmed today with TAHC] is:
www.xtremegamebirds.com in Elgin Texas

WE all may have sick chicks, but we don't all have confirmed AE virus. for all we know ours are just sickly, I'll know in a few days If we have confirmed AE I hope not.


I'm having mine tested tomorrow.

I do hope others will decide to have their sick ones tested as well. I wsn't going to go this route in the beginning, but I want to know for the sake of all my birds and future birds I'll have here.

I tried to research AE but didn't get answers I was looking for.

I have sick chicks from MMH. In fact, the first two to get sick look like
your #3 and #7 Kathy. One died but the other is still alive. I've got a
few more looking shakey.

What I don't understand and maybe you guys can help me ... if they all
have been exposed to AE, why must they all be destroyed? Is it because
they are now carriers and would endanger all future generations of chicks
at my property? I have had chickens for 10yrs and never mail ordered
before. Never had any disease problems before. Now I'm just trying to
understand if I really should destroy the live 25 chicks from my order.

please help if you can
Thanks
Tam

This message was edited Mar 25, 2008 4:58 PM

Wow, this is totally worrying me....my babies seem to be doing just fine, but my question is...When did the symptoms first begin?

Thanks, Kim