That exciting time has arrived! Many martagons have put up their noses and some seem to have made babies. I wonder how one can know whether they are bulb offsets or seedlings..
Specially from this one I think they could be seedlings being so crowded together in a bunch... or am I wrong?
The main bulb is just behind the group, its a little visible in the middle of the pic.
This one has only one baby..
this one looks a bit weird, perhaps it is sick ? It looks like it has devided itself in two small ones.
and this is my veteran, the only lily I had before I got infected with the lily virus in this forum,lol!
I had replanted it in fresh soil mixed with leaf mold after suspecting it had a nutrition shortage because of its extreme pale leaves, but now it looks that it will be pale again so I guess it must be a natural paleness in this particular one.
Oh, what a breath of spring! We are buried under 18+ inches of snow at this time.
Wow, llilyfan that's a lot. I keep forgetting that there are places on this planet even colder than mine. But it must have it's beauty on its own, a white fairy wonderland..
About that fist pic being seedlings, I don't think that would be correct. The largest stems would have to be at least 7 years old from seed germination. Even the smallest leaf would have to be in at least its second season above ground. If these are possible scenarios, then they might be seedlings, but more probably, one of these is the answer:
1. Could it be possible that there were two mature bulbs there last year? (If not, got to 2↓.) One bulb being the stem behind in the pic, and the second being where the group of stems are? I propose that for some reason the second bulb's central growing point was somehow damaged, maybe rotted, but outer scales remained in good condition. Since the normal growing point could not grow, the plant does what it would do naturally: some of the remaining scales produced their own little bulblets that then sent up individual stems or leaves that is evident in the pic.
2. The single bulb naturally split into two bulbs last year, so there would be two central growing points to come up this year, one for each bulb. I propose that for some reason the one bulb's central growing point was somehow damage, maybe rotted, but outer scales remained in good condition. Since the normal growing point could not grow, the plant does what it would do naturally: some of the remaining scales produced their own little bulblets that then sent up individual stems or leaves that are evident in the pic. Martagon stems don't always rise straight up from the bulb, and the large stem behind in the pic decided to wander out a bit before emerging.
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Martagon lilies rarely produce bulblets like asiatics (for instance), unless something has happened to induce them. But as with everything in nature, there are always exceptions. Your second pic might actually be a bulblet from the mother plant, or a seedling.
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Your third pic seems to be healthy plants but deformed. Could it have been accidentally sprayed with an herbicide last year, or might you have applied a pesticide to the soil? It might also have been cause by some unusual weather. Most likely, what will happen is they will look weird this year, but next year return to normal.
Anyone else have any possibilities to add?
Yes, it does have a beauty that is breathtaking in its own right. I'm just ready for spring, we have been averaging about 40 degrees below our norms for this time of the year.
Isn't that weird Llilyfan , with all these global warming doom-scenario's....?
Thank you so much Leftwood for the thorough explanation of possible scenario's..I will study this with a fresh mind tomorrow...
Yes, it is wierd bonitin, we had a warmer than average December with a wicked ice storm that coated everything with 3/4 to an inch of ice and then before it could warm up and melt off the trees and power lines wer plunged into the deep freeze for 2 weeks and it has been colder than normal since.
I guess the law of averages has to come into play sometime; we have had really mild winters for a few years now.
The largest stems would have to be at least 7 years old from seed germination.
The largest stems would have to be at least 7 years old from seed germination.
That's pretty much for martagons only, and perhaps western North American species (I don't have much experience with them yet). Any asiatic, trumpet and even oriental lily will definitely take less time to flower, sometimes only one or two years. And that 7 year timeline for martagons is assuming you have coddled them, and growing them in a pot for the first 2-3 seasons before putting them in the garden.
I think I would leave that group of stems be this season. Carefully dig them up this fall, divide them, and replant immediately. I have never divide this kind of proliferation of bulbs, but I think they will break apart fairly easily. But if you need a knife to help your break them apart, use it. If the small bulbs want to stay attached to the scales, that's fine. Leave them that way, and replant (scale and bulb together). Remember the new bulb has its own basal plate, so there is no need to take some of the mother bulb's basal plate with.
Thanks Leftwood! I left them as they were and I'll be wiser in autumn what they are.
I'm very excited! Just an hour ago I received the 3 L.martagon var.albiflorum from the VanTubergen company I had ordered some weeks ago.
http://www.vantubergen.nl/?cat=233&prod=803
It's a pity they don't have an English version of their web, so I'm translating partially what it says;
"The lily is specially grown for them on one of the historical islands close to 'Broek' on 'Langedijk' and is a magnificent form of L.martagon that hasn't been offered before.......................... The flowers are white with a pinkish hue accentuated by purple spots and pinkish-red stripes on the back-side of the flower"
but there is a problem. One of them shows a blue-green mould on several sides. The two healthy ones I have already planted, one in a pot and the other in the garden. The moulded one I'm hesitating what to do with it and have wrapped it in some humid moss.
I've send them an e-mail to let them know, I hope they are going to send me another or give me a refund for that one.
This message was edited Mar 1, 2008 2:15 PM
another side,
and the three together;
Many companies do not differentiate between L. martagon var. albiflorum and L. martagon var. album. Van Tubergen has identified your bulbs correctly. Album is completely white, including the seed. Albiflorum can color variations. Yours is a particularly beautiful one.
Regarding the mold on the bulb, (1)if it is easy to cut or break the infected scales off, I would do that. Alternatively, (2)I would gently wash the surface mold off under running water(under the faucet). Then immediately after (1) or (2), dip the bulb in a 1 part bleach/10 parts water solution for one minute. Just get the base of the bulb wet with the solution, and try not to submerge the roots. The roots, if they are alive, are more easily damaged by the bleach solution. I would tell you to dip for a longer time (that would be normal), but I am afraid that bulb is not in very good condition, and it may cause more harm than good. After the dip, rinse the bulb well, allow to dry somewhat, then plant. But wait for a day before you water the soil.
Those bulbs don't look freshly dug, and may have been through some trauma in storage. I tell you this because I don't want you to be too disappointed if they don't come up this spring. Martagons are unusual in that they may skip the first season and come up next spring if they are traumatized. I think we would all like to be updated in a couple months, to see if they come up. They may also take an extra long time to emerge this first season.
Thanks you so much Leftwood!
We will see what's gone happening with them. I think my e-mail to van Tubergen was too friendly as I only complained about the moulded one.
I think the one moulded one is completely ruined. As I didn't get a reply yet on my e-mail to van Tubergen, I have inspected the bulb more closely. Its completely rotten inside, don't think there can be anything rescued of it.
Would you mind Leftwood if I copy part of your text in a second e-mail to them together with my last pic I post here ?
I feel stronger with the comment on these bulbs from a specialist lily-grower.
I haven't paid yet and I don't feel like doing that after your judgement of the bulbs until they send me other more healthy ones.
At least I don't feel like paying for the rotten one. They are expensive!
I would probably save the rotten one to send back to them..
Thanks Ticker, I was thinking that too and have saved it..
Copy as much as you like bonitin. Many companies send martagons with dead roots. It is more the norm than the unusual, but that doesn't make it right.
Thanks, leftwood!
Got a reply on my first e-mail, they're going to send me another bulb what means that they are good-willing. There was no need to send the second e-mail.
I'll wait and see how that one will look.
It looks like you will have a lot of new bulbs bonitin! One of mine seems to have done the same thing, L. xanthellum luteum which I got last year from rareplants. Their bulbs do come freshly dug and with roots, you could try them next year (or this!). I just looked at their site and this one does increase underground, but mine had only a short stem last year and this year when I dug down to look (who doesn't, lol) I saw only outer scales which looked OK. I will just have to be patient for that one.
Take a look at their site,
www.rareplants.co.uk
Your L martagon albiflorum does look beautiful, I haven't heard of that one, looking forward hopefully to flowers. You now know why they are expensive, lol, I wouldn't like to grow them for that length of time for even that price though.
I have 5 tiny bulbs growing on the martagon alba scales you sent me, I put them in the bottom of the fridge in the moss only just moist. They have been there for a while and don't seem to be getting bigger, I'm wondering if it would be better to plant them in pots outside or in a greenhouse now.
I have sown all the martagon seed you sent too, you sent lots of good seed! I couldn't waste any so sowed up more than one 8" pot of one, lol, now for the long wait but I will pamper them in my good compost. It will be fun watching them grow as I'm sure they will!
Scale bulblets only grow in size during the warm incubation stage. The cold conditioning time is for proper chemical actions to occur, so foliage can emerge. I would be very surprised if anyone saw an increase in size of any lily inside a refrigerator.
That's what I thought Lefty, but I wasn't sure just how big the small bulb should be first, or if it should start to grow a root or whatever. They are still very, very small. Other seedlings are starting to move in the greenhouse now so it should be a good time to pot them.
Root or bulblet first, until now, I thought that was not a question.
Prior to this past fall, scale bulblets had always began first, followed (or not followed) by roots. Maybe because this was the first time I ever had scales from an LA, but when I scaled Kentucky, the scales immediately sent out a plethora of roots that filled the baggie. No bulblets. It took another month plus for bulblets to develop.
That's interesting for the scale to send out a plethora of roots without making a bulblet!
I have seen others' pics of scale bulblets and they looked bigger than mine, lol, perhaps it depends on which lily it is. I will have to take a pic.
Oh what have you done wallaby, giving me that link to the rare plants site, lol! Help! the lily virus infection has settled even deeper!
They have such a nice collection (not only lilies) of wonderful species and give such a good in-depth honest information on them.
The good thing is that many of these species like half-shade as I cannot offer them full sun. But I'll try to restrain myself for this year.
L. Xanthellum luteum is very pretty,
Interesting to know that the scales are making little bulblets even without being planted!
I have the impression that producing bulblets are more the rule than the exception with martagons, at least that's the case with my little collection.
Here's another pic from today from the first one i posted, now from another angle. Today there popped up another fat nose in the middle. The tallest from the bunch in front has been bitten through the stem and withered. What horrible frustration that must be if it had been grown and cuddled for 7 long years and then suddenly been destroyed!
There is even popping up a new fat nose from the one that has made the groupThe one that produced the bunch made n
The second one that had only one baby, now has three
the smallest made two
Only my veteran didn't make any.
I love its pale foliage, it looks like a green flower.
The first martagon 'album' is popping up, and the other planted beside is nearly to do so , I also cannot help peeping once in a while to find out what's happening,lol.
The third one (from the early growth that gave up) is still in its pot. I've started to water it since about a week ago.
I have the impression that producing bulblets are more the rule than the exception with martagons
Yes, I see what you mean, Leftwood. Your picture made it clear.
Perhaps the 'abnormal' behaviour of mine has something to do with their source. They all came from the same grower who raise them from small bulblets he receives that have been grown from seeds collected in the wild ?
I forgot to post a pict of the 'weird' looking one that looks normal now also with babies!!!
Rare Plants will still be here next year bonitin, lol, they have an autumn and a spring catalogue :~)
There is certainly a lot of reproduction of some sort going on with your martagons!
There is 6 scales, 5 are making tiny bulbs (is that correct Lefty? lol). I put them in the fridge with the hope they would make these tiny, or perhaps slightly larger, small bulbs. I have seen others have success doing this, and it has worked for me! Maybe some scales work better than others.
As you can see, this is greatly magnified. All at different stages, one at the 10 o'clock position looks to have 3 small cells, as in a dividing embryo.
Very interesting, wallaby!
There's another thing I'm wondering about; What if all these babies are the result of the bulb having split, Leftwood ?
I know my L.martagon 'album' from last year has done that. When I dug it up last autumn, there was no more bulb, only scales.
The ones that have made now tiny bulbs in wallaby's fridge..
I once saw (in a photo) an old Claude Shride martagon that had continued to split over many years to a mass of more than 20 large bulbs. That was at least 10 years old from a mature bulb, and Claude Shride is a particularly vigorous clone. I have never seen a martagon split into more than three bulbs at one time, and that still leaves three large stems, not the multiple small plants you have, Bonitin. So I still think some kind of damage happened to the original bulb, that forced it to make new small bulbs. Natural martagon bulb splitting produces bulbs of relatively equal size and each is capable of producing flowers the first season.
Well, that still leaves me puzzled, Leftwood! It is not possible that almost all of my martagons got some kind of damage? At least it cannot be a damage caused by me..., and I'm usually VERY careful when I dig into the soil, I don't do it with a shovel, but with my bare hands as I have so many toads who have their homes into the soil.
No, your right. I was only talking about that one that had a bunch of small stems and leaves: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4572983
