Brands of Soil

Most of the mixes have a lot of peat in it. I find that pre-moistening is a must before putting it in the containers for seeding/planting. Initially the mix will repel the water, but after about 10 minutes it absorbs it. I put the soil mix in a 5-gallon pail about 2/3 full. add about 1 icecream pail of the of warm water and let sit for 10 to 15 minutes. mix it up and ad a bit more water if it needs it.

You cam bake your soil in the oven to sterilize it, too.

I always mix in some of my compost in the mix and water them initially with some diluted liquid seaweed or fish emulsion.

I've read on these threads that sterilizing the soil is not necessary in winter sowing. My first thought when I began reading about the soils folks are using is that they appeared to contail no soil. For the purpose of HOS planting, I thought the soiless mixes would fall apart when trying to separate the hunks. Then I read that people were experiencing this.

I can see the benefits of using soiless mixes if they have to be baked or if they would be germinating on heat mats or in a warm room. In the past I have used seed starting prepared mixes and found them very unsatisfactory because of the watering difficulty. My preference is organic fertilizers, so I don't use the MG products. In recent years, when starting seeds in containers outside, I have made a mix that contains soil and organics matters.

Stephanietx, my mixes always contains compost, fish emulsion, kelp, mycorrhizza and beneficial microbes.This year I've also added alfalfa meal to all of my plantings, but I'm unsure if it would be wise to use it in a seed mix. You're not baking your compost, are you? It would seem like that would kill the organisms in the compost. If a sterile enviornment is necessary, wouldn't the fish emulsion be counterproductive? I've read that Promix contains Mycorrhizza and that many folks use it. Surely baking the Promix would destroy the Mycorrhizza.

I'd really appreciate all of your imput as I am planning on starting quite a large number of jugs and would really prefer not to buy commercially prepared soiless mix. However, I don't want to destroy the seeds either. If winter sowing is attempting to mimic the natural enviornment, surely using some real soil has a part in that process, or am I missing something?

Capecodgardender, LOL, I am never sensible enough to take the easy way out. Also, it takes me months to plant all of my seedlings, and often I transplant many of them to pots and grow them some more before putting them in the garden. A nutritious soil mix seems like it would give the seedlings more vigor to withstand the double transplanting. I walk through my beds all of the time and need the plants to be large enough to make them easily visible to avoid tromping on them

There were folks on these threads who reported that they don't use soil because weeds grew in with their seedlings. When I used to germinate seeds indoors, I always used commercially prepared seed starting soils or peat pellets. When I would move the trays out to my cold frames, after about 10 days of exposing them to the air with the windows open, weeds would grow in those mediums.

Joannabanana, I am familiar with the water repellant properties of peat, which I always use in my mixes, and find that your watering method is a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

StormyLa,
My growing mediums are so mixed up right now, I couldn't begin to tell you what's what! Im sure I've dumped MG potting mix in with the compost, which went in with the Black Kow composted manure, that got into the yard of veggie growers Rose Mix garden soil I had delivered this summer.....

If I see worms in a container, I figure that's the organic stuff. No worms in a container, I figure that's the potting mix!

I don't sterilize my soil at all! I just know it can be done and people do it. I'm way too lazy to sterilize. Besides that, I figure if Mother Nature doesn't sterilize, why should I? Last year, none of my WS containers had weeds in them. I just use an organic potting soil add a bit of my own compost (everything seems to grow in my compost pile) and put the seeds in. I probably use a 3:1 mix, 3 parts soil to 1 part extra compost.

Thank heavens, you guys!!! I can't imagine running my oven with the turkey roaster full of soil for three days. I also think that heating organic substances like peat and coir must alter some of their natural properties. When I germinated indoors, I never cooked them, just misted the plantings with very diluted H2O2 or bleach.

I've always kept my cold frame doors open in the day and only closed them at night unless there were hugh down pours or snow. I always filled the bottoms of the ones with half hardy or tender plants with straw and manure, which kept them warm enough through the night.

Another benefit of the jugs over the cold frames, is that I won't have the repeat of last year's marauding squirrels getting into the cold frames and ripping the seedlings and containers to shreds. I lost about 500 seedlings that way and many of them are still growing in troughs, as yet unidentified. This year at bloom, I'll finally be able to ID them. Darn squirrels just love to rip those markers out and toss the seedlings everywhere.

I do understand the importance of keeping the mixture very light and porous. I keep rock dust, peat and leaf mold on hand for all of my plantings and amending my beds. I always have large containers of native soil that are returns from the planting holes. Somehow it seems so alien to me to germinate the seeds in a totally artificial medium without expecting the seedling to have to undergo stress to adapt to a true soil upon planting. Doesn't it seem more logical to start them out in a mix that is close in composition to their eventual destination?

I've never used soil or compost, only soilless mixes, with good results. My soil is clay and clay doesn't drain all that well in heavy rain despite years and years of amending. Compost holds lots and lots of moisture too. Sometimes we get monsoon rains in spring with can last for days. I want the mix to drain as fast as possible, avoid rotting the seeds. Excess moisture or poor drainage combined with cool temps will rot seeds, especially large ones. Been there, done that. I also gouge plenty of large drain holes in the bottom of the jugs.

Unless weather is exceptionally warm and dry in spring I don't have to water often. Last year was so wet that I don't think I ever watered once. They get only morning sun exposure, afternoon shade. I also plant hardy annuals or hardy perennials out early while they're very tiny, usually only a couple of true leaves, and I think that helps, too. Everything goes right from milk jug to garden bed. I begin planting out perennials in April usually, though we get frost well into May. I'm not always so good at timing the tender annuals; I have had those bloom in the milk jugs before I can get them in the ground, although my goal is to have everything in the ground by May 15 or 20.

Karen

Thanks, Karen. How many jugs do you usually start?

In 2006, my first year, I did 80 .
Second year, 68.
3rd year 62.
Last year, my 4th, I think it was down to 40 some. (Didn't do a spreadsheet last year, so I'm not sure.)

Problem is, after doing this for several years, you run out of places to stick them. Last year I think I gave away more seedlings than I kept.

Karen

K,
What're those yellow and orange flowers in your pic?

Karen, That's an amazing quantity of plants to get into the ground by the end of May. Even if you only yield 6 plants per jug x 80 = 480 . The springtime is full of garden chores. Pruning the shrubs, trimming the trees, bed clean up, feeding the bulbs and everything else, deadheading the bulbs, dividing the daylilies and Iris, plant moving. Slug and other pest treatments, compost spreading. Branch removal from all of the spring storms, compost making. Mulching, Washing all of the furniture. Planting your containers and bringing out your garden art. Not to mention your regular job!! I am always still planting through a good part of the summer.

Just getting ready for the spring swap takes almost 2 weeks, but will be easier if I give away half seedlings and half divisions. I will probably do about 75 jugs and have to move a lot of other plants to put those new ones in the ground. My bed area is about a third of an acre, much of it under a canopy of trees that must be thinned in early spring.

Stormy: My jugs generally yield more than six seedlings, see picture attached. I had taken what I wanted from one corner, then passed (forced?) the rest to friends.

Yes, spring is a busy time. Maybe my priorities differ from yours. I know that getting those babies in the ground is necessary for best performance, so I make it a priority. I measure soil temp regularly and start slug treatment as soon as soil temp is 40 degrees. Despite my best intentions, the windows and screens might not get washed in early spring. Curtains might not get washed and ironed. Perennials that need it might not get divided. But my babies get planted.

I USED TO have a much cleaner house before wintersowing. When I'm on my deathbed and look back at my life, I don't think I'll reminisce about how much I enjoyed those clean curtains. But I think I WILL remember how much I enjoyed being surrounded by flowers.

Karen

Sorry, Gymgirl, I forgot to answer your question.

The yellow flowers are rudbeckia hirta and the orange are butterfly weed, (A. tuberosa)

Karen

LOL, Karen, my house doesn't get cleaned from Easter to Thanksgiving, not deep cleaned anyway. I have a gardening friend who had a cross stitched sampler hanging in her kitchen, that said "A clean house is a sign of a wasted life". I agree with those sentiments fully. I spend all of my non working time in my garden.

A large part of my spring efforts is keeping up with the 20,000 bulbs that are here. They all have to photographed and marked for fall division. There's no putting that off tlll later. Gardening under trees has it's own challenges. I pour over last year's photos to look for light pockets both to know where to thin the canopy and where to plant.

I was being conservative with the 6 plants per container. I rarely get less than 20 plants from seeds, even with only using partial packs. When I plant, I often have to remove tree roots, which is very time consuming. I admire your determination in your planting regime. I just can't ignore all of the other garden chores that scream out for attention!!

Admiral, to be sure, Gymgirl.

The only food I grow is tomatoes. I don't even grow many herbs anymore, since my picky husband won't eat them. I have to say I have no idea how to grow anything practical, like food. I've only been on a farm once, for about an hour, as a little girl. Smelled poop, wanted outta there Definitely a big city kid.

Karen

>>Smelled poop, wanted outta there Definitely a big city kid.

LOL.

as a child, I spend many weeks up on the farm. My mom's relatives were/are dairy farmers in Wisc. The only manure that I dont care for is from pigs.... or when it was barn cleaning day and it's all getting churned up.

I'm not a "farm girl" but i'd rather live in the country than the city.

I mix my own then I know who to blame if something doesn't grow*G*

Just to be clear, I think the distinction is more between soil-less mix and garden soil/dirt, not whether you buy a pre-packaged mix or make your own blend of coir, peat moss, perlite, whatever. The reason to use a soil-less mix is that "regular" soil compacts in containers... you'll end up with little bricks, and your seedlings won't be happy. Now, maybe you've got miracle dirt in your garden, but several people have reported very disappointing results when they WS'd in garden soil rather than a soil-less mix.

Personally, I like ProMix BX, partly because I can get it in huge compressed bales and partly because it has a fairly fine texture that I like for seedlings. I'm not fond of the newer Miracle Gro "moisture control," although I haven't been able to put my finger on the "why" there. I do add polymer moisture crystals to pretty much everything. Last year, I also mixed coir and rice hulls with my purchased Pro Mix, and I thought that worked out well.

Stormy, I think after you come down here to see Joyanna's crocus lawn, we want to visit you to see 20 kilobulbs in bloom!

Oh, yeah... sterilizing soil... totally unnecessary for WS.

But I do sterilize the smaller amounts of soil I use for seedling trays and potting up cuttings or African violet plantlets. I do it in the microwave -- doesn't get that smell the way it does when you use the oven, and it's quick! Just be sure you moisten it well.

Me, too. I sterilize for the few seeds I start inside, but never for wintersowing.

Karen

Capecod: Yes, I sterilize small amounts of potting mix, as well as containers for the few seeds I start inside. It supposed to prevent damp-off.

But for wintersowing, I don't sterilize potting mix or jugs. I've never seen damp-off in wintersowing.

Karen

Critter, LOL. I feel myself being coraled into another trip to MD. Just don't schedule another 3 hour traffic jam for the return trip. I would love to have you, Adventure Girl and hopefully Terri come see my bulb show!

I've grown all of my seedlings except for one year in a mixture that contained some native garden soil. It's never compacted or turned bricklike. Nor does any of the soil in my pots. My soil is a lot more porous than a lot I've seen from the MidAtlantic and I add a lot of things to lighten it up. I'm nuts about having the microherd in there working right from the git go. I've always filled all of the peat pots with my soil mix and had no problems, even managed to eek out some Oriental Poppies every year.

I am very careful about the drainage.and have been reading these threads for good ideas on how to best achieve this in the jugs.

potting mix in a bag isn't sterile... even if it's special seedling mix

stormy, your soil is probably way better than my clay!

Critter, I always thought we had clay until I saw your, Holly and Sally's soils. Those are some serious clays.

Jill -- i cant recall which thread i read it in... but since i see you are on this one..... you had mentioned that you always add Polymer Crystals to your WS containers. Do you wet them first, or add them dry to the soil?

I was going to add vermiculite to the soil, I think Karen mentioned that... but i just recalled i used it all up last year... I may just venture out today in search of some at HD. I know that most of WallyWorlds gardening stuff disappears around the holidays...so i dont think i'd find it there.. which happens to be the closest store.

I add the polymer crystals dry to my soil mix, being careful not to overdo it! If you want to be sure about not overdoing, you could wet/expand them first. With the crystals, I can get away with some shallow WS containers (2+ inches of soil mix rather than 4-5").

Is there going to be a coop on the polymer crystals? I missed it last year.

Lynn.... i do think Tammie runs them often... and you can even contact her to see if she has any on hand... I know she does 'projects' with the crystals too, so she may have it laying around.

Lynn, The gal who ran the last co-op also usually puts an ad in the classifieds. She buys it in bulk to get the cheaper rate and unloads the excess on that forum. She prices it to move.

Thanks for the info. I bought a small bag last year at a greenhouse supply company, and have been hoarding it. I used it in some of my hanging baskets, mixed with coir. They were the best baskets I have ever planted.

Thanks to Critter's advice, I use it in all of my planting holes for new plants. It has made a remarkable difference in the success rate of plantings especially in my dry as dust roadside bed, which is covered with Maples. I use it in containers, but never tried it with seedlings. Those crystals get so big when they are wet, it seems like they would unearth some recently germinated seedlings and maybe even move the seeds around.

In shallow seed starting trays, I actually use a version with smaller crystals, but I just use the regular crystals in the WS containers, and that works out fine.

The watersorb folks used to carry a "small" crystal size, but they just could not convince people that "medium" was the right size for the cool ties that everybody was making (many were being sent to our troops)... said everybody would order "small" and then complain... so they stopped carrying them. When I run out (probably soon), I'm going to make some more smaller crystals by running a few handfuls through my propeller-style coffee grinder.

That's a bit of ingenuity Critter. Hope it doesn't gum up your coffee grinder. I might put them on a big cutting board and chop them with a long bladed knife as if mincing Parsley or Garlic.

stormy.. you grind them when they are dry... like little rocks.

tcs, I know, but if any get jammed in there, when you go to wash it, they'll swell. Have you ground any by machine? I've found them everywhere when I'm using them. You know how if your hands are the least bit damp, they stick to you? I find that they stick to you even when your hands are dry. One day, I found a bunch of swollen ones in the washing machine. They must have fallen into my apron pocket and then fell out of the pocket when I washed it.

THough i have never ground crystals... i do clean my grinder with the air compressor... gets everything out of it.

That's a great idea.

I actually just cleaned my good grinder the other night.. added some new "good" beans.
I have another grinder that i use to grind flax seeds... that one gets cleaned the same way... but it would be my "crystal" grinder if i ever did that.