Is there a long (but easy) way to improve clay soil?

Holy dog doo doo! No wonder people want to come to Alaska! I'd like to live at the end of a 40 mile dirt road with only me at the end of it. No thanks! to Outside, for me! I like to shovel snow and battle moose and dodge bears. I got beads of sweat on my brow just reading this thread from the beginning.
Carol

We made a point of buying our 6 acres of oak trees and pasture from a farmer and building our brick house on it. There are some houses around us in a "development", though - and they have smaller lots and neighborhood covenants, rules, and restrictions.

I keep our place real nice, but I get a lot of satisfaction from knowing I'm free to do anything I want to with it. If any of the neighbors annoy me, I might just take a notion to raise a bunch of hogs right up next to their fence line. lol

Ozark - certainly hope all goes well for you.
There are areas not far from me (outside Seattle) that are now developed farmland parcels. They are located in areas zoned for agriculture; the result being a development next to a farm/ranch.
Some folks that move into these new developments get p**sed when they decide they don't like the odor of manure, or whatever. Always wondered why folks like this don't check out the "neighbourhood" prior to buying.
Or, perhaps at first they think it's "quaint" - who knows?
I find it scary that this type breeds...

In many areas it is funny to watch new homes being built directly next to airports and under the flight paths of the planes. Then all of the sudden they are suing the airport for noise pollution and crying that the planes come in too low and are a danger to their homes and families. Uh ... DUH!

Puddle Pirate,
Putting a flagstone path thru your flowerbeds would make them all accessible and look wonderful!! Your flicker photos were great, your web page funny.

Reading through the thread, sounds like you have received lots of good ideas for improving your soil and gaining greater accessibility to your flower beds. I have my first lasagna bed "cooking now" and hope to be planting in it this spring. I look forward to seeing more pictures as you work on property.
Pat

I'd like to suggest the book: The Enabling Garden, Creating Barrier-Free Gardens by Gene Rothert. He was the president of the American Horticultural Therapy Assn., and gardens from a wheelchair. I've found it very helpful in my adjustment to sitting while gardening. Cathy

Cathy - excellent suggestion! I will pass the book title on to a person that is wheel-chair bound.

Z - this type of situation is rampant here. Whatever happenend to "doing the analysis"?
I suppose it's a continuation of the entitlement mentality: "change the world for me because I am more important"...
ooooo - sounds like me complaining about the rain because I think it should only rain at night! ouch.

Well, it SHOULD only rain at night!

but i love stomping in puddles with my grandkids and watching the seed pods from my neighbor's golden rain tree bob down the street like little chinese lanterns!

ok, we can make an exception for Bridgwton ;~)

Thank you zany, i love rainy days now and then.

Well, i certainly don't mind a few, and puddles are fun. BUT, the rain here is just over the top.
And don't get me started on the sun deficit...

Wow. Talk about an overwhelming response! Thank you, everybody. I have lots of homework to do now, but it's the fun kind. In the spring I'll post pics periodically to show what's what in my beds.

PuddlePirate, In winter, it is the "homework" that applies to my garden that keeps me going! Pleas do post those picturres and let us know what you do and what worked or didn't for you. This is what we all learn from.

Ditto, from me. It's always great to see new areas and share ideas. :)

As soon as there's a day with no snow and decent light I'll take some "before" pictures. Unfortunately it's rainy and soggy right now, which is typical of December in NE Ohio. I'd leave major furrows in my lawn if I wheeled my way out there.

Patience is a virtue I hate waiting for.

This message was edited Dec 11, 2007 3:50 PM

A virtuous pirate... that is a thought to ponder ;~)

Somewhat virtuous ... at best.

http://brainshavings.com/puddlepirate/

Puddle, I WISH I would have some patience! If you have spare, send some my way. I'm more the "God grant me patience and I want it RIGHT NOW!" kind of person! LOL

Praying for patience is guaranteed to get God laughing. I asked once, and soon found myself swamped with opportunities to learn patience.

I don't pray for patience anymore. :)

Puddle, you've just said something very profound!

Thanks. Wish I'd thought it through beforehand, but there it is.

I just found electronic copies of the HOA regs.

Regs: http://www.brainshavings.com/supplements/regs.doc (MS Word format)

Covenants: http://www.brainshavings.com/supplements/covenants.doc (MS Word format)

Do my eyes deceive me, or is there no mention of compost piles/bins/tumblers in there? I think my verbal source overstated the HOA restrictions in our development. If there's no explicit prohibition, then I'm going to go with one of the oldest rules-of-thumb I learned in the military: "If you want something done, it's better to ask forgiveness than permission."

--

MUDCATSLIM: I never did the Caribbean. I spent 4 years at the Academy, 2 years aboard USCGC BASSWOOD out of Guam, and almost 3 years at HQ in Washington, DC. After that, I was medically retired as a LTJG.

It's pretty funny, really. It mentions "partially dismantled...lighter-than-air craft". No storage of surplus dirigibles, I guess. But much of it is so vague, they could argue against a compost bin from a few angles..."Architectural control", "Nuisances", "Temporary Structures", "Refuse", etc. But you're right, they don't mention compost bins!

I'd do it anyway, and if they try to give you a hard time, see if you can get support from the Lorain County Soil and Water Conservation District.

I think you're right, claypa. I'm gonna do it.

Quick question, folks. I'd like to plant some green manure that'll send its roots deep to both break up the clay and to bring nutrients to the surface. Nitrogen fixation would be a nice bonus. Should I scatter some crimson clover seeds, or should I use some other plant?

Crimson clover should work quite well for your area. And you might want to consider following that up with legumes to give the ground a major nitrogen fix.

Red clover (I don't know if it's different from crimson clover?) is a legume, so it's kind of doing it all for you.

I gotta tell you, I've participated in forum threads that addressed your idea about having roots break up the ground. We tossed around a whole lot of ideas - taking long rooted carrots and leaving them to become mulch, etc. - and the best that could be found was the cover crops, but once again, you're not really breaking up the soil deeply, you're taking a top layer and mixing it with your cover and building upwards. Anything you send into the soil to break it up will have to be pulled up to provide that "break".

I live on acreage that has been cultivated, hayed and grazed (and manured) for over 50 years. The top layer of soil in my fields is nice and dark, even somewhat crumbly - but it only goes down about 6", and then you have soild, hard clay.

And that took 50+ years. You might want to think about raised beds.

I agree with Pagancat. To make good soil out of clay, you'll either have to turn massive amounts of organic material in very deep, or do it on top of the ground with raised beds. Nature won't fix it in your lifetime, no matter what you plant or put on top.

I have property here in the Ozarks woods I keep for deer hunting. It's never been farmed, and it's all trees and brush - mostly oaks. Enormous amounts of dry leaves drop on the ground every year, of course. There are weeds, grasses, and understory brush that you'd think would break up the soil with their roots.

Sometimes I've sat under a tree waiting for a deer to come by, and grubbed around in the ground a little. The top TWO INCHES is nice black, crumbly soil - and below that it's undisturbed heavy clay and rocks. It has taken nature, literally, thousands of years to make that two inches of workable dirt.

You'll probably want the process to go a little quicker than that.

PuddlePirate- Enjoyed your page. ( Everybody should check it out )

Thanks, Sally. I've always been a smarta**.

You know, I kinda guessed that about you!!! hehehe...

smarta.... are some of my favorite people, lots of fun to be around (but not quite as much fun to parent.....)

oooo - what sally said!
and it's especially an owie when that portion of the DNA program has been passed down from mom to son!

Do you have to turn the soil to improve it?
Maybe in farm land, but I don't think it needs to be done in a flower bed or home garden. Clay or hardpan can be broken up with deep-rooted plants, which also bring up nutrients to the topsoil. But plowing or tilling mixes a lot of oxygen into the soil, causing rapid decomposition of the organic matter we want to turn into humus. Plus, tilling bring weed seeds into the light and makes them happy. Plus, too much tilling messes up the soil's inner structure and kills the beneficial microorganisms. Plus, it sounds like a lot of work and a big mess.

So, Ozark's undisturbed woods, and everyone else's, have just a few inches of good soil. Undisturbed is the reason why. Trees and shrubs only drop dead leaves once a year, which doesn't add enough biomass to the soil.

I made a document file for internet pages on how to build soil. This one that I pasted here kind of sums up what they all say--that you need sunlight, groundcovers like legumes, and disturbance of the top growth by mowing or letting livestock graze it severely. So, if your HOA allows it, you can grow clover in your front yard and get Little Bo Peep's sheep chew it down now and then.


URL: managingwholes.com/new-topsoil.htm

"There are six essential ingredients for soil formation.

Minerals
Air
Water
Living things IN the soil (plants and animals) and their by-products
Living things ON the soil (plants and animals) and their by-products
Intermittent and patchy disturbance regimes


For soil to form, it needs to be living (4)
To be living, soil needs to be covered (5)
To be covered with healthy plants and decomposing plant litter, soil needs to be managed with appropriate disturbance regimes"

Katye- sounds like you and I should talk...LOL

and I think PP will like the thought of cultivating 'disturbance regimes' in his yard!

typing error edit

This message was edited Dec 14, 2007 1:28 PM

Ooooo, ooooooooooooo, me too! Disturbance regimes? Sounds interesting!

Sounds like how I live...

Puddle Pirate - curiousity has my curious brain twisting more curiously:
Kindly elaborate on this name. In trying to figure it out, I have only achieved the level of "wry smile". Please help put this brain to rest.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puddle+pirate

Thank you.
LOL: derogatory...

at ease!