Clone machine (Air Bubbler)

Had a new idea today and want to run it past you all, on a different approach on a Air bubbler.
Instead of adding water all the time to keep the level correct below the roots why not make the holder move up and down to meet the water.
One solution.
I have a fish tank that I can paint the bottom half black and add a glass cover then lights.
Some Blue foam 3/4 inch to make the cup holder.
Glue 2 inch foam strip around under the edge of it to float it 2 inches above the water.
That way the holder will float on top of the water with an 2 inch air pocket under the 3/4 inch foam cup holder.
.
I cut out the holes today and glued the foam strips.
I am using party dip foam cups 23 each

Now shoot it full of holes on what I missed.

how are you going to move it up or down

It floats freely up and down in the tank on top of the water.

I can't think of anything you missed.... is there a reason you have to paint it black?

prevent algae from growing...

alright so let me ask you this....i thought the water was just suppossed to be splashing on the cuttings....not constantly on them? not criticizing just asking?:)

the tomatoe guy has the bubbler going ever 15 minutes....and i am just wondering if the pieces would get soggy or something just sitting there in the water?

That was the reason for gluing the 2 inch foam around the under side edge of the tray.
That will put the bottom of each pot two inches above the water as it floats.
Should there be more distance?
Will post picture when glue dries. Ted

i think you are right ...i am the dingbat:)

Just another thought: You could take a tray insert that holds the rockwool plugs and make it so it floats.

i learn better with photos.....

SHOW THE PICS. SHOW THE PICS. I have mine made and have to put the cuttings in. I will have pics soon and put on the other, normal, way of doing things!

Ha Traci you found me. LOL
Going to make one, if this Idea pans out. Out off foam to match a standard growing tray insert. Ideas just keep rolling in. LOL
Think I can get rich. LOL

show pictures please :)

If I give suggestions, can I share in the spoils?

I think if these work out we'll have lots of cuttings to share with each other:)

You know I think you can use this set up to start seeds too. I think I read that somewhere, hmm I'll try to remember where.

$.99 store mini cloner

Supplies
Plastic shoe box- 4x6x11 inches- clear with white lid
3oz. dixie cups or plastic egg holders(4 for $.99)

Nursery
Shultz starter plus-1 capfull per 1/2 gal. water
Shultz aquatic plant soil

Odds and ends from around the house.

Air pump from aquarium
Plastic hose
Airstone-cut to size-it's a hollow tube with hose at one end and a plug at the other
Nylon grain bags from homebrewing beer to keep aquarium soil in cups.
submersible aquarium heater set at 72 degrees.I ran the heater for a couple days with a floating aquarium thermomiter in the water to get the setting right.

suction cup holder for heater-hold it horizontally off the bottom
suction cups to hold airstone on bottom.

Rootone and shultz take root rooting hormone

hydrogen peroxide-3%-mix 2 1/2 tsp. per gal. nutrient mixture
super thrive concentrate-mix 1 drop per gal. nutrient mixture

Shultz stater plus-2 capfull per 1 gal. water
seaweed extract-growmore-mix 5 oz. per gal. water
vitamin b1-western states-mix 1 tbs. per 1 gal.water


chlorine bleach-mix a 10% solution for sterilizing everything,soak for 10 min.

I cut holes in the top of shoebox cover to fit plant cups and a hole for air hose.
Used a razorblade to cut slits in cups.
I lined sides of cups with nylon grain bags so aquarium soil didn't fall out.
Stuck aquarium heater in bottom of box horrizontally.
Put airstone (wand) in bottom af water resivoir-suction cuped down.


I put the aquarium plant mix in the cups and soaked them in nutrient solution overnight in the dark.
Dipped cuttings in either rootone or take root.Marked cups so later I'd know what was better...Also mixed both together for some cuttings.

Mixedd up b1,plant starter and seaweed extract to make 3 gal.
Added 3 drops super thrive and 7 1/2 tsp. hydrogen peroxide to the 3 gal. of nutrient.

Sterilised clone box,cups,heater,razor blades,airstone and cover by soaking in chlorine mix for up to an hour before using.

My cuttings are only about an inch above the solution and the solution wasn't as deep as I'd like so I cut a some cardboard to make sides that fit around my box that were about 4 inches taller.My top is bigger than the plastic bottom so the top sits on top of the cardboard sides.
This allowed for more nutrient to be put in the cloner bottom.
It also made it so I can have the cuttings 2 inches above the nutrient.
I wrapped thhe cardboard in plastic wrap.
I'll probably use cardboard from vegetable shipping boxes next time,they are coated so water isn't a problem.

I made 2 clone boxes.

The second one has no heater,no raised sides and no cups.The cuttings are just hanging through holes in the top into the bubbling nutrient solution.
I cut the holes in the top about 2 inches in diameter.
The peices I cut out become my cutting hangers.
I punched 1/4 inch holes in the peices of plastic from the holes in the top and made a slit from the center hole to the outside so I can get the cuttings out of the cloner when it's time to plant them.
I will put a heater in it if I think it isn't working as good as the heated one.
I didn't check the ph either.
Too many different opinions about the ph.
Half insist on a ph of anywhere from 5 to 6.5.
The other half don't bother with adjusting it.

The only reason I'm using the Super thrive and B1 with the Plant starter is because thrive has different micro nutrients than the plant starter and the B1 has a different form of B1 than the plant starter.
I don't know which the cuttings find easier to use.I don't think I can overdose the cuttings using both because I see lables for different cutting treatments that have more in them than I'm using.
I'm using the peroxide to help fight algea from growing and it should help with oxygenating the water.I used to use it when growing hydroponically.

Smoke, can you show a pic. Much easier to understand setup. I can't picture the cardboard and plastic wrap.

I am loving all these ideas. My "glamour box" is up and running. Gotta take pics.

Smoke sounds interesting. I'd love to see pictures too! I was think of putting a heater in mine if need be. I like the idea of the suction cups.
I also have super thrive already so I could try that but I guess I will leave it as is and see what happens. I was not able to find the b-1 at my local garden center but the original inventor of this did use B-1.
We are like a group of not so mad scientists. Today the clone box tomorrow the world!

Sue

Funny, My DH wanted to buy a heater too. I told him to wait as the "Glamour Propagation Station" is in the basement, which the current temp is 80 degrees. I am going to moniter it with a thermometer.

Wonder if you could set the whole thing on a propagation mat? Guess it would depend on how much of a temp diff there was with the ambient air.

TA, where are the Pics? You have to crawl before you walk and then you still fall down sometimes. We can learn just as much from items not working as we can from success. If it didn't work, we can see it and maybe have some ideas. Come on, post one little tiny picture (don't interpret that literally, as I have seen what you can do with photos).

shoe box-6qt

http://www.aeroplastics.com/ClearStorage.html#Anchor-35882

Trick air wand

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10444/product.web

Wand I used

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10434/product.web

Air pump I'm using

http://www.petmountain.com/product/air-pumps-tubing-air-stones/504770/coralife-luft-pump.html


The plastic wrapped cardboard was the size of the outside of my plastic box.
It would be the same thing as putting the plastic cloners water container inside a snug fitting cardboard box thats taller than the plastic cloner box and using the cardboard to set the top on.
I decided that I wanted more water in the box and had to raise the cover so the cuttings would be 2 inches above the liquid.I also wanted to stop light from getting to the liquid.

I tried to make the cloner as small as I could.
I live in a very small apt. thats allready got too much crap in it.
I have way too many toys,fishing tackle,boat stuff,reloading stuff,gardening stuff,computer stuff,R,C. stuff.............

I think I can fit pretty many cuttings in the cups,they are just closer together.
I don't think the plants know their cups are only an inch apart and they are in a 3oz. container instead of a biger cup.
I think the ceramic aquarium soil will hold the liquid as well as the starter blocks and will have more air spaces for roots to grow.
The shoebox has 11 holes for 3 oz. cups.
I cut the bottom off 8oz. semi clear cups for covers for the cups.
I am going to buy 2 more plastic shoe boxes and use them upside down for greenhouse type covers.
They fit in the groove around the top of the cover nicely.
I should have thaught of it before I wasted all my time cutting cup bottoms.

Sorry no pictures.
Cameras and watches don't last long around me.
They get broken,lost or stolen.
Mostly broken.

If it ends up that heating the water doesn't help I'll get a foam six pack size ice chest from the 99 cent only store.Should be real easy to cut up etc.
I don't think the suction cups would stick though-have to use weights to hold air wand in place or glue it with 5 min. epoxy to the bottom.









This message was edited Oct 15, 2007 6:25 AM

Ok, starting to visualize. I have a couple of questions. When you say aquarium soil, are you talking about the rocks you put in the bottom of an aquarium or is this something else? Are you using it solely for the purpose of holding cuttings in place? Why the darkness? Bear with me, I am such a newbie I haven't even grown any hair. What does that benefit. Doesn't deplete the mixture as fast as light would?

After this experiment, if you have the time, would you run one with using just the basic plant starter and hydrogen peroxide. If it works just as well, my theory is the less money spent the better. Only if you have time.

I reloaded a bunch for my uncle one time. Didn't push the pins in far enough. Needless to say, he never let me do it again.

Traci

I have a question too? Are you letting the stems of the plants hang out the bottom of the cup?
If not I wonder if they will get too moist and rot.
Just for the heck of it maybe I will try one using the gravel instead of the cube . I have an aquarium so I already have some gravel on hand. I will just open the bag a sterize some gravel but I'll have to put it in something to keep the gravel from falling out. Did the little bags work out? Maybe a coffee filter would work.

Aquarium soil is about the size of coffee grinds,maybe a little bigger.

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Plant-Soil-10-lb/dp/B00025YW34/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8087908-8320049?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1192459856&sr=8-1

I got 10lbs.
The smallest bag they had.About $11.00+tax.
I'm using it to hold moisture for the cuttings and to hold them in place.
Darkness is to keep the algea from growing.Algea eats up the nutrients and the oxygen.

I've seen posts that say that some people just use water,nothing else and get cuttings to root.

I'm only using the other stuff (super thrive,seaweed extract and Vitamin B1) because I already have it and the bottles say that it's good for cuttings etc.

I'm using 2 kinds of rooting hormone because different plants prefere different hormones and I don't know which one Hot peppers like.
I want to clone my 3-4 yr. old Habanero Arbol (tree Habanero) before it gets too old and dies on me.

I don't have any clonex and the nursery down the street doesn't sell it.Clonex seems to be what a lot of people are using.

I'm heating the one box because I've read that cuttings and grafts should be kept in 90% humidity.Grafts are kept at 80 to 85 degrees till they heal.
I'm going to see if cuttings root faster in warmer temps. that have high humidity.

Eventually I'm going to make a box big enough to place a grafted plant in.
80-85 degrees might be hard to get from an aquarium heater in a covered box of water.....humidity shouldn't be hard to keep up though.
See the pepper board,I'm trying to graft several peppers to a single plant.

If I can clone a cutting from my tree.I'll experiment with it first.
If it takes grafts then I'll graft it back to it's parent plant after it has a couple different peppers grafted to it.
I'd think it would be an easier graft since it's a clone.The grafts shouldn't make a difference.
The tree is 5 ft. tall so I can't keep the grafts to it in a controlled envirnmemt like I can clones that are a foot tall or so.

Jeez,this year I think my peppers cost me about a grand a piece.

Benneficial bugs,fertilizer,repotting,fungas,hot weather,people overwatering my plants, you name it.This year sucked.

And this was the year I was so bright to start gardening. Check out NOAA's drought map. Look for the almost black circle. That's Birmingham. Restricted to Mon & Thur watering, 2hrs, no sprinklers. I am a glutton for punishment.

Thanks for clarifying that. I want to learn grafting next, so I may pick your brain on that too. A GRAND PER PEPPER!! You know you can buy those at the grocery store. lol.

Keep us updated!!

I don't think a coffee filter will let the water drain as well as the nylon bag.
Plastic window screen would be closer to what i'm using.
Got an old pettycoat? LOL

I brew beer so when it came to improvising I thaught of the grain bags.
In fact now that I think of it,it is beer thirty.

The nursery didn't have the starter blocks only those peat seed starters.
I didn't want to use the peat.
When I asked for something that was basically sterile-no nutrients etc.They said use the soil I got.
The pack says that NASA uses it for hydroponics in space.
I just got off work(14 hrs.) so I'm spaced and whatever is good enough for NASA is good enough for me.

I am also using the aquarium soil because my containers are so small.
I think I need finer material to keep my cuttings moist.
Especially with the heater making the water evaporate faster than room temp. water/nutrient.
I think the denser material will also hold in some of the moisture.
A cube in a round cup has more places for the water vapor to get out.
The only drawback would be that it could keep the humidity from getting high enough above the cups for the tops of the cuttings.
In a bigger cloner it might be a problem but I have only a little space to humidify,
If I end up with air humidity problems I can just drill some holes in the top or take 1 cup out.





This message was edited Oct 15, 2007 8:13 AM

I am just sucking up all the information from all the genius people around here. Mad scientists? Maby!!! But I got the idea of the floating container. You guys are BRILLIANT!!!

The only thing about the floating top is you have to figure out how much it's going to sink with the weight of the rockwool etc.if you want a 2 inch space between the water and cuttings.
Lets say a cup hangs down 3 inches.That means your sides/ floats have to be 5 inches below the top.
Then lets say your tops weight sinks it in the water another inch.
So you need to have it 6 inches.
You basically have to put everything in it to see how long your floats have to be and you have to allways put the same size cuttings in each time or you'll be floating the top too high or low.
If there is only a little difference it probably be ok.
I guess you could allways build it so it had more foam floats than you'll ever be able to sink but then they might get in the way of the bubbles being evenly sprayed on the plants.

I think I'd put a toilet float in the tank connected to a gallon of nutrient if I was making a bigger cloner.It would keep it's water level even till the gal. jug ran dry.

If you needed more than a gallon use a water jug with a spigot(sp?) on it (igloo) connected to the float.

Time to have a beer and hit the sack.


This message was edited Oct 15, 2007 8:50 AM

I can see some of your points. This I do know that the 2 inch thick blue foam floats a lot of weight. Made a pond floating island and it holds up high and dry. For cuttings and rock wool you are not looking at a lot of weight. Time with this experiment will tell us more.
The rock wool cubes are only 1.5 X 1.5 inches. The cups I am using are 2 X 2 inches.
So what is the Ideal distance the root tips should be above the water.

From what I have been reading, it is two inches. Mine are about one and they are dripping water. Not good, DR Fronkensteen!

I may have to add another layer of foam to the float ring to bring it up another two inches. That will give me four inches of constant air space under the tray. I can adjust the cuttings to get the 2 inches of clearance. The foam comes in all different thickness. 1/2" all the way up to 5". Cheaper to buy the 3/4 inch at the lumber yard and glue to the thickness you want. I had some scrap 2 inch.

I would add to the bottom, possibly. If you add to the top, you will cover more of the stem, thus negating the purpose of raising it. If you add it to the bottom (maybe as a perpendicular edge all the way around) it will keep the holes small, so more steam can show through. Just a thought. I love to PROPAGATE!!

The ring goes around the bottom. Adding to that increases the depth of the air chamber only.

Ah, the pupil is learning well.

pupil...i am hoping you are learning ...i am lost, so please keep notes....unless of course i can show the hubbie...and he can do it...

I am trying sticks. I am going to redo some on mine when I see these cuttings rot. I can't pull them because I have false optimism.

they aren't gonna rot:)

Ah Ha! Someone to share false optimism with!