Fresh manure

Pagancat: thanks for the information. Some people around here have rescue wild Mustang horses. Every once in a while a read about a truck load coming in for auction. Id never heard of the PMU rescue horses.

Well, the Mustangs aren't actually 'rescues' as they're not *ever* to be slaughtered (by federal law,) whereas there's nothing stopping the PMU foals and many others from going to slaughter (at least in Canada and Mexico- it recently became illegal to slaughter horses in the US for human consumption). But adopting a Mustang is a *very* worthwhile thing to do, and often quite challenging... you have to respect someone taking on some of the adults.

Yeah, Katye - they're pretty incredible animals, in both good and not so good ways, but always beautiful, IMO. After getting my toes mashed a few times, I have respect for them, too!

OW!

Now you know the *real* reason cowboys walk funny.

The earth on our property is hard Indiana clay, not easily penetrated with a spade, and the grass that grows there has fibrous underground stems, adding to the difficulty of digging. By digging it, I came to understand the term, "sodbusters." Admire those pioneers, and the effort it took to tame this country!

My husband raises Tennessee Walking Horses, so I collect the freshest manure I can get, then spread it on garden expansions in late summer or fall. This bed is out by the road, so smell is not a problem. The fresh manure burns the thick grass, and it decomposes. By spring, a spade goes into the earth very readily, and is a joy to dig!

I haven't had a weed problem, maybe because I turn the ground over, and weeds ready to germinate are 6 to 8 inches underground.

Lucky you! There is an "Equestrian center" about 1 mile away - I loaded up some of their manure years ago - but it was 5% manure to 95% "pretty" wood chips. So I headed out to another place, more in the "country", and got some of the nicest partially composted manure: 95% manure to 5% shavings. It was a great - but the owner sold & the land got developed! Now I resort to chasing down landscaping trucks filled with leaves in the fall - this is such a sad picture! Especially since I have no truck...
"hi there, would you like to dump that off at my place?..."

OMG, THANK YOU for the PMU information. I would adore one of those horses. I can't believe that they are considered to be "inferior"! As opposed to some of the pure "hot" breeds that I've been thrown and trampled by???

When my life is in the kind of order I hope it to be (maybe in 20 years??) I am going to adopt as many needy horses as I can. It would be wonderful to invite people who are needy (through accident or illness or handicap) to come and pet or feed them.

I did some rodeo riding in my younger days. That was back before I decided it's best to stay away from things that weigh 1500 lbs. and have brains the size of a walnut. The aches and pains still remind me of every hard landing, though.

I've come to appreciate my tractor - which doesn't eat when it's standing still, doesn't require care while it's in the barn, doesn't produce manure, doesn't lay its' ears back and throw me over the headlights, doesn't decide to roll and take a dust bath while I'm riding it, doesn't tear down fences to get to a mare tractor, doesn't turn its' head around and try to bite my knee off, and hardly ever steps on me.

Carry on. :>) lol

Wait, Ozark - you forgot ...

-You don't have to show your tractor who's boss in order for it to not kill you

-It doesn't start eating your garage if you put it inside

- Its tires don't blow out if you put too much gas in it


However, if your tractor ever brought you as much joy and laughter, well.....

As you were! >grin< ...

I began this thread questioning the best way to compost (get rid of any weed seeds) in manure I am bagging up today. The man from the stables said it was 35 year old stuff! Hopefully, I can dig out the older stuff. My original question still remains. Will it decompose faster in black bags (heating up more) or clear plastic bags (letting the sun heat and kill any remaining seeds) or spreading out on a tarp or something, not bagged?
mraider3, can you refer me to a soils analysis lab? My county extension is no help.
Thanks for letting me get back to the post.

If it's 35 years old, it won't break down much more and should look pretty much like it came out of the bag from Lowes -- just spread it on the garden.

BUT, if you detect a scent that is other than organic freshness or if it steams in any way, then follow the directions I gave you almost a week ago in this post:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4044554

The trick is to mix it with some "brown" stuff like leaves or paper (not brown as in color, but carbon-based) so that it doesn't turn gummy, but like I said, if it's 35 years old, it has passed that stage by about a quarter of a century.

Suzy

dun1kirk: Here is a list of soil testing services throughout Canada & U.S. Scroll down for services in California.http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/soil-testing-services.html

http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/soil-testing-services.html

This message was edited Oct 8, 2007 7:10 PM

I am sure black plastic is best, but I use the clear bags b/c I HAVE to see what's going on! I am poking and prodding the bags all the time.
I actually pull weeds and tie them into clear bags w/ water and let 'em rot. It looks better to have a pile of clear bags rather than trash bags that look like- well, trash! After a year, I can empty the weed bags out in a shady spot. I haven't had anything nasty survive being sealed in plastic for so long, black or otherwise.

Oh, boy! I had fun. I feel sorry for the folks that don't think shoveling this stuff isn't a joy. The pile was higher that 2 stories. I found a great burrow and shoveled for hours till I couldn't any more. NO smell and, yes, way, way in there it WAS steaming as it hit the air. I wish I had my fishing thermometer with me. I must have bagged up 40 or so. Now I have to hire someone to get the bags up my 25 stairs. I hauled up one bag, turned my compost some and watered it in. I was hoping this would help decompose my slow rotting stuff. I just don't have browns. Anyway, one job done for the fall.

Dun1kirk - sounds like you hit the jackpot!
Although I don't envy the hauling/stairs part...
But a very nice thing to have accomplished.

"fresh steamy horse manure"

see the last paragraph in my article on winter gardening.

the pleasure of shoveling manure has historic precedent.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/138/

Great article, gloria. I'm historic!

dun1kirk: Did you find a soil testing service?

After shoveling, I kind of collapsed. Will try to research this evening

I use a lot of horse manure in my gardens.....a lot (I have them in the back yard too, so its not much of a haul for me.) I use it fresh right out of the fields, and use it as side dressing for all my plants. I don't till any organics in anymore, its too much work. I just keep layering on the side and let the worms and microherd do the work for me. What I do, tho, to keep the manure from sprouting weed seeds is put newspaper sheets over the top of the manure which keeps the seeds from sprouting. Occassionally I dont get to the newspaper in time to see some weeds sprouting. When I do see them, I put newspaper over the top of the sprouting weeds, and then something like hay over the top of the newspaper to hold it down. Depending on how much newspaper I have (I have friends who save theirs for me), I use 3 or 4 sheets; does the trick for me.

thanks for the tips, halo.
I use newpaper around the newly planted, tucking it into & over the top of the
mini-basins when planting on a slope, which is often.
It helps suppress the weeds, and keeps the sides of the basin intact.
Actually, nothing is safe from dog feet & tails...

Yep, I use newspaper, too. (I use the Wall Street Journal to kill the Democratic weeds, the NY Times on the Republican weeds - LOL). I put pine needles/ lawn mower clippings on top to hold them down. Whne I run out of newspaper, pine needles alone do a great job!!! Luckily, I have more than my share. When I lift up the pine needles, I find more worm activity than under the newspaper/pine needle mix. I don't know if it's a good idea, but I stuff compost/hardwood leaves/manure under the cover of pine needles/newspapers for certain plants (usually the ones I've paid more for!)
I wonder -if I put the newspaper through a paper shredder and mix it w/ pine needles, would I have the best combo- but now I'm just getting obsessive!

As for tilling, I agree, halo! That's what earthworms are for; b/s, the worms' castings enriches the soil. In fact, tilling will kill worms and may actually kick up weed seeds and rhizomes that were buried. Let the worms do their job!

Jax: that sounds like its worth it to subscribe to those newspapers! Then let the worms read them.

editors in training...

Hi:) I hope you dont mind me joining your thread, I have some questions about fresh horse manure:

I picked up 4 sacks of nice fresh stuff from the race course today. Its not ok to put into garden beds fresh is it? How long do I need to wait until I use it?

Im in mid spring, and want to feed my tomatoes with it over the growing season. How about making manure tea from it? Can that be done while its fresh?

Your horses and cat are adorable by the way. I miss my horses.

Lena

Hey Lena, happy spring-time to you! I admit to being somewhat jealous, but not enough to wish for another summer. This last one wasn't much fun.

Making tea might be the best idea yet. The drawbacks from applying it fresh is that you aren't sure of what the manure contains - seeds from feed/ hay, dewormers (that may kill your own worms), any medications that the horses might have been on, supplements, etc. Oh, and if you have dogs, they really like the fresh stuff - dig and roll, dig and roll.... kinda rough on your tomatoes.

Feel free to come over to the Equine forum anytime you want to visit the ponies. We have quite a few lurkers, a number of "used to be" owners and as well as a lot of "wanna be" owners. There's also a number of foals and yearling pics, always fun to browse.

Isn't Jax lovely?

Yes, Jax is beautiful. A very handsome boy.

I looked at some lovely draught horses at Lazy Horse Rescue last night. Thanks for adding the links. I had never heard of PMU before, a real eye opener. Will take a wander through the equine forum some time.

Manure tea: I made some yesterday! Just dumped a feed sack full of it into a tub of water half the size of a bath. Its very fresh smelling, probably too hot for the garden, green and frothy looking.

Can anybody advise me how long to wait before using it?

Hmmm - you know, I'd try it on an out-of-the-way piece of lawn or something first, just to kind of check out how it does. It shouldn't harm anything, seems like the water would dilute it out, but kinda like a new detergent, try it on something small, first!

Thankfully the whole PMU thing is beginning to wind down, now that the urine is sythesized artificially, I believe. But thanks for your interest, and I hope to see you over on the pony's posts!

30 days is good, that will age the tea, and let some of the ammonia evaporate. And you could always dilute it and use the very weak solution on bedding plants. But try it first on something like a section of the lawn that doesn't show very much. I'd dilute it several times for feeding plants. Better to have a steady diet of nutrients, than one big feeding

Thanks, great idea. Ill put some on one of the many volunteer pansys that are trying to take over my garden, see what happens :) If the pansy can handle it, then so can my tomatoes (I hope). If not then Ill wait longer, keep trying. Guess if I try every week or two, Ill work it out.
:) Lena

I have always put manure in my garden right from the fields. I use it to top dress around plants, including tomatoes, and it always does fantastic that way. There is no issue with wormers and horses....I can't explain the scientifics of it, but the wormers that is used for horses are specific for certain types of worms and doesnt harm earth worms or any other kinds of critters. Thats according to the U of FL. I used to get worried about using manure and tried to compost it; I then got too lazy and just threw it about my garden, and it and the plants do fine. I put it around my banana trees too. It has really helped my soil here, too, since its sandy. Layering manure and leaves and old hay right in the garden really helps to keep the moisture in and adds a lot of organics to the garden without having to till it in. Im all for easy, and it doesnt get any easier than that.

That's great news about the wormers, Halo. I'd like to read about it if you have a link-?

This is why earth worms get a rep for being "icky"! So many so-called "worms" are the larval stages of insects. I think I remember from my horsy days that horse wormers are meant to kill the larval botflies? Plus, we want to kill the JB grubs in our lawn- I wonder what effect, if any, milky spore has on earth worms?
I'd like to learn more about what harms earth worms and what encourages them- chemically speaking. If we care for our wormy friends, they'll take care of our gardens!!! I think I'll Wikipedia this one!

I've been a gardener and fisherman all my life, so I've always known about worms and want them in my soil. I don't mean the grubs and caterpillar kinds that turn into flying insects.

I have three kinds in my garden, and all three are dark pinkish-colored. The first, I guess, is a common earthworm. There's lots of those, they don't move too fast, and they get about 3"-4" long. I've caught lots of panfish on those.

Then I have worms that look identical to the "Canadian Nightcrawlers" that are sold as bait. They're bigger, and they come out on top of the ground at night and after a heavy rain.

I wonder about the third kind. They're kind of a super nightcrawler, as big around as a pencil, 10"-12" long, and very strong, fast, and active. They're pretty rare in my garden, and they always startle me when I dig one up. They practically jump out of the ground and they whip around so strong you can't hold onto one with one hand - it takes both hands, they're like a small snake. You couldn't use one of those for bait - there's no way to put one on a hook or hold it there. Does anybody here know what those are? They're kinda scary.

I know that all three kinds are a sign of good soil and they're very good for my garden.

Best I could find was this link..

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/livestk/01224.html

I had spoken with someone at U of Fl about it, and he said there is so little wormer given to a horse, usually just one paste dosage. By the time it goes thru the horse in a single day, it has been spread over 25 pounds of manure. He said if I had any concerns, just keep the horse in a place for a day where I could collect the manure for that day and put it aside. He said, unless you are giving your horse a tube of wormer everyday (which of course we don't) that so little of it is the manure as to be inconsequential. Sure makes sense to me.

Thanks for the link, Halo!

Ozark, Holy Cow!!! Sounds like a script for a horror movie!!! Maybe you could put a saddle on one of those suckers!
Wikipedia has a list of worm species, but it's not very helpful.